SWTOR

[caladein]

I think it's more so that Bioware has always included same sex relationships, so for them to take a step back says something about their risk taking on this project.

How many Bioware games have included same-sex relationships? The only ones I can think of are Dragon Age 1 and 2, Mass Effect 1 and a little bit of 2 (female only in both, and no same-sex stuff between primary party members in 2), and... maybe Jade Empire? I guess there's also the buggy and incomplete Juhani romance you can go through as a girl in KOTOR 1, but I don't really count that.

That's less than half of Bioware's releases, and one of their series is one-sided about it. I'd be hesitant to call it something Bioware's "always" done, and I believe someone at Bioware (David Gaider maybe?) has admitted that they rarely, if ever, do it out of a conscious effort to include it.

With some help from TVTropes... pretty much everything they've released on PC in the past decade in one way or another.

As for games of theirs that would pass a Bechdel-a-like I have percolating in my head right now, I think it's only DA2.

[Nevermore]

How many of those games were released with EA in charge?

[Lantyssa]

I'm trying to think of an MMOG that had homosexual references.

What MMO has had relationships at all?

If you're going to add it, then give people a choice.  It's more risky to not have the option in this day and age than it is to include only one.

[caladein]

How many of those games were released with EA in charge?

Mass Effect 2 and both Dragon Ages.  ME1 came out just after EA bought BioWare/Pandemic so I don't know how much that counts.

[Furiously]

I'm trying to think of an MMOG that had homosexual references.

What MMO has had relationships at all?

If you're going to add it, then give people a choice.  It's more risky to not have the option in this day and age than it is to include only one.

To me it just seems odd to have released your last three to four games with the option then to backpedal and not allow it. But maybe your same sex panda relationship is waiting for you in second life.

[Ingmar]

There are really only 3 that 'count', IMO; Jade Empire and the 2 Dragon Age games (Liara is kind of borderline, and there's no male option in ME1/2). Supposedly ME3 will as well. The points certainly still stand about why they'd be taking steps backwards at this point.

[Paelos]

Well, I don't remember anything gay in Star Wars. I think it's probably the IP rather than a Bioware thing.

[Mattemeo]

In all honesty, I've found it kind of weird that there have been games which push the player character into an NPC relationship at all, let alone same-sex ones and all of the unnecessary politics that inevitably spring up from such. Especially in an MMO environment, I've always felt it was up to me and me alone to decide on my character's gender and sexuality beyond the limits the game gives me. I hadn't given any thought to it but I never expected there to be any kind of 'relationship wheel' in SWtOR. It's not even that I don't believe it to be 'that kind of game', it's just I'm so entrenched in the idea of an in-game relationship being entirely personal that I see it as a non-issue. I actually got vaguely annoyed by it in Mass Effect.

[Ingmar]

Well, I don't remember anything gay in Star Wars. I think it's probably the IP rather than a Bioware thing.

I'm pretty sure they (Lucas) allow it in subtext only, yes.

[Lantyssa]

There are really only 3 that 'count', IMO; Jade Empire and the 2 Dragon Age games (Liara is kind of borderline, and there's no male option in ME1/2). Supposedly ME3 will as well. The points certainly still stand about why they'd be taking steps backwards at this point.

Despite their lore, Asari are female in all ways that appeal to a human player.

I don't need romance in an MMO, but if they're going to stick it in there, if it's going to be one of their selling points, then they damn well better not be discriminatory about it.  Especially coming from a company which has included them in the past.  Plus trying to justify it by saying a straight relationship is okay for a teen rating but a gay one isn't is kind of infuriating.  I guess there's a lot of kids out there who are mature for their age, what with two mommies or daddies.

Plus that whole Bastilla option.  IN A KOTOR GAME.

[Evildrider]

Most likely its a combination of EA, Lucasarts, and the ESRB.  I'm sure Bioware would have put it in if it was just up to them.

[Ingmar]

There are really only 3 that 'count', IMO; Jade Empire and the 2 Dragon Age games (Liara is kind of borderline, and there's no male option in ME1/2). Supposedly ME3 will as well. The points certainly still stand about why they'd be taking steps backwards at this point.

Despite their lore, Asari are female in all ways that appeal to a human player.

I don't need romance in an MMO, but if they're going to stick it in there, if it's going to be one of their selling points, then they damn well better not be discriminatory about it.  Especially coming from a company which has included them in the past.  Plus trying to justify it by saying a straight relationship is okay for a teen rating but a gay one isn't is kind of infuriating.  I guess there's a lot of kids out there who are mature for their age, what with two mommies or daddies.

Plus that whole Bastilla option.  IN A KOTOR GAME.

As mentioned I'm 90% certain this is a Lucas thing. The Juhani thing in KOTOR is really nothing more than hints, which seems to be all they'll allow in general.

[Paelos]

I still think the whole thing is dumb. But it's Lucas' call and I'm pretty sure he has no idea what romance is anyway.

[Sjofn]

If you're going to have romances, especially if you're BioWare (as they've shown themselves less moronic about this than most game companies), you can't suddenly hang the No Gays Allowed sign on the door and not expect to catch a lot of shit for it.

By the way, Pirates of the Burning Sea had romances. You could be gay. 

[luckton]

Re-igniting the "OMG Projecting random shit" argument...the latest Twitter Q&A they did this weekend asked about this question.  The advised people to review the Huttball video they released and see what 'else' they're chucking around.  

I did this, and I believe I saw parts of an R2-D2 droid being pulled up and tossed  

[Paelos]

If you're going to have romances, especially if you're BioWare (as they've shown themselves less moronic about this than most game companies), you can't suddenly hang the No Gays Allowed sign on the door and not expect to catch a lot of shit for it.

By the way, Pirates of the Burning Sea had romances. You could be gay.  

Yep, they will catch shit over it. I still think it's the right business decision not to do it. People will give you more hell for including something controversial than if you don't but did in other different products.

[Ingmar]

I disagree, I don't think they lost any real business with the DA games because they included gay romances. I do suspect their hands are tied here, though.

[Merusk]

Y'know..

We had this conversation before.  Back in 2009 when it was first announced.

Y'all reactin' to a troll thread.

[Paelos]

I disagree, I don't think they lost any real business with the DA games because they included gay romances. I do suspect their hands are tied here, though.

I'm shocked you would disagree with me. 

[Sjofn]

You know what would've been an even better business decision, then? Having no romances at all, because you could not have made the bigots and the non-bigots happy.

[Tannhauser]

Are you trying to stifle innovation and dramatic storytelling?  Well are you?

Meh.  Just make a fun MMO, you can keep romances.  Everyone knows girls have cooties. 

[Paelos]

You know what would've been an even better business decision, then? Having no romances at all, because you could not have made the bigots and the non-bigots happy.

Probably, but they didn't. Like I said, I think they wanted to have it in there, and Lucas put the kibosh on gay sex, so they split the difference. Maybe they will lose all the gay population of gamers over it. I can't say. I don't think it was their intent to make social policy through twileks doing it.

[Lantyssa]

Y'all reactin' to a troll thread.

Until they drop the NDA, it's all we have.

[Rasix]

Man, I don't want to sex up a dude.  Bioware somehow got me to go mangina in DA1.  Sealed the deal with FemShep and Lady Hawke.  Lady Hawke especially, she be awesome.

Might have to evaluate all of the male voice acting during beta.   Although no romance didn't bother me as my evil ladyRevan in KOTOR (there was no way Carth was an option) and somehow I botched every romance I did in Jade Empire. 

[Sjofn]

I still think ME2's Manshep is underrated, dang it. He's so Canadian, I love it.    I also like ManHawke a bit better than LadyHawke, but it's essentially a toss up. Playing ManHawke is the only way I make smoochy faces at the ladies, though, I like to have at least one hot dude in the scene. If the hot dude happens to be me, well, so be it. My ManHawke/Isabela couple was adorable.

[Sky]

Oh, that's why everyone is human. Talking about manshep reminded me how completely immersion-breaking my second playthrough was (it didn't last long), because all I could think about when I was playing my badass renegade dark black afro lambchops ass-kickin mofo Shep was my whitebread boy scout pale blond/blue Shep because it was the same voice.

So...since all classes share the same voice, it would be odd hearing a Rodian bounty hunter with wolverine's voice. Maybe at some point they can add in some filters, but I bet that's part of it.

If the hot dude happens to be me, well, so be it.

Be careful, you're going to end up in Merusk's sig!

[UnSub]

The interesting part of the BioWare poll on this issue is that there are more total people who would pursue all romantic options and same sex romantic options than only the opposite sex romantic options. So you've got the hardcore BioWare players who want to hear every golden bit of dialogue and see every scene, but there are still a sizeable group who'd go just for the homo option.

However, this day was coming ever since EA BioWare announced there were no gays in the Star Wars universe.

From memory, Jade Empire had both homo, hetero and group sex options if you played your cards right. 

However, this is romance in Star Wars, a series where, "I don't like sand" started off a key relationship building moment and people were rooting for a brother and sister to hook up at the end of the first film. Romance is to Star Wars what cheap underwear is to clothing: uncomfortable and ill-fitting.

[Lantyssa]

That's why it bothers me.  "Incest and pedophilia are fine and canon, but we'll be damned if any gay relationships are even hinted at!"

[01101010]

See... this is why I'd like to go Droid. You can just avoid feelings and intimacy all together. 

[Paelos]

See... this is why I'd like to go Droid. You can just avoid feelings and intimacy all together. 

Hey. What kind of party is this? There's no booze and only one hooker.

[kildorn]

That's why it bothers me.  "Incest and pedophilia are fine and canon, but we'll be damned if any gay relationships are even hinted at!"

So what you're saying is that to keep in theme, all romance options need to be vaguely uncomfortable and creepy. The hot dude at the bar can't hit on me, but every time my uncle enters the scene he's going to be talking with his... not hands.

[Lantyssa]

It wouldn't be my choice, but if that's going to be their reasoning at least they could be consistent.

[PalmTrees]

I'm disappointed in the lack of same-sex romance options. No way to to tell who made the decision or why but it's either plain old bigotry or cowardice to stand up to it.

On another note, they've updated the crew crafting page, http://www.swtor.com/info/systems/crew-skills

Seems like you get 3 out of 14 possible skills that are divided into three categories. Crew members will be more proficient at certain skills. Eh, nothing exciting or that interesting. Just puts the crafting bar timer in the background instead of having to stand in front of the forge. I didn't play much of Free Realms, but I remember liking their cooking skill mini-game. I wish someone else would try something like that.

[Evildrider]

So after first being angsty about Huttball, I finally decided I'm probably gonna play that crap out of it.

Oh and in case you missed the Gamescom MVP moment here's a quick peek.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APe_qMSn5tc

[Threash]

She CCs two people and scores? yay?