SWTOR

[Pennilenko]

And onwards to page 300! We can do it before SWOR launches - I have faith in you all.

This place does a good job of hiding its quantity of neck hair, at least until somebody brings up anything related to star wars.

[Simond]

She isn't whining you did something wrong or that you should do something else. She just tries to teach you there's consequences to everything you do and they aren't as easy and straightforward as "i did the blue choice, so group hug!"

Horse crap.   The main character of Kotor 2 is an adult and doesn't need guidance you'd give a teenager.   If you were giving advice to a fellow adult you wouldn't let him fuckup then say "Gee you just fucked up here's why".  You'd try and stop him before hand.   She's just a whiner.

So letting people learn from experience is juvenile, but simply telling people what to do (or else) is mature?

An additional point: KOTOR2 is, in part, a deconstruction of the typical (Bioware-style) RPG. It's Planescape to KOTOR's Balder's Gate.

[Sjofn]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's the teenagers (or child) you stop from doing something idiotic, wheras you simply discuss it with the adult. Because the adult is, you know. An adult.

[Amaron]

wheras you simply discuss it with the adult

I think you misunderstood what I meant by "stop".   Stop means saying "Hey that's a bad idea I don't think you should do that".   Also known as discussing.   I'm not sure how you could get any other idea than that.

[tmp]

But there's an extra factor to consider, ultimately Kreia is dark side character. Why would she want to stop you from doing stupid things when she can instead watch you do them and then berate you for it? Old ladies have right to have some fun, too

[Ingmar]

I think ultimately the problem is you don't actually know what the word whining means. Kreia is lecturing you.

[Fordel]

I think ultimately the problem is you don't actually know what the word whining means. Kreia is lecturing you.

It must pain you SO MUCH that you can't be a protocol droid.

[Sjofn]

It pains me, because I would love to watch him be one. The RP server people would think he was the best roleplayer around, without him having to RP at all.

That said, Ingmar is right. "Whiner" and "whining" are charges leveled at characters all the time, for seemingly no reason other than "they are not emotionally stunted manchildren and/or not actively kissing my ass."

[Malakili]

"they are not emotionally stunted manchildren and/or not actively kissing my ass."

Game developers have trained us well what to expect from NPCs

[Sky]

"Whiner" and "whining" are charges leveled at characters all the time, for seemingly no reason other than "they are not emotionally stunted manchildren and/or not actively kissing my ass."

[rk47]

Nah, Carth is just shit. And there's barely a development with him as the plot goes on.

'I've been betrayed and fear of being betrayed again' is all his selling point about. Which makes fucking him over so much sweeter...

"I won't let you win... *runs away*"

  Yeah, that's what i thought, bitch.

[Sheepherder]

...

Damn you, Mission. The Republic and the Jedi might pride themselves on being just and righteous, but under their rule you grew up living in a sewer and eating garbage. Who pulled you out of that shithole? Who whisked you off the planet just before it got bombed into the stone age? Who took time out from his very important quest to dick around in the middle of the fucking desert rescuing your worthless piece of shit brother from sand people? Without me, you never would have learned about your brother's death at their hands, because the garbage dump you lived in would have come down around your ears in a fucking holocaust of orbital bombardment.

And how do you pay me back? You spit in my fucking face with that silly "But the Sith are EVIL!" bullshit. I expected that sort of crap from Jolee and Juhani, and that simpering dipshit Carth, but not from you. You might not be "evil" but I had come to think of you as at least being halfway smart. (You were so damned pragmatic when we slit the throat of that silly blind leader of your old gang on Taris!) I mean I was prepared to tolerate a little bit of lip, but when it became clear that even your emo throw-rug of a wookie wasn't going to back you, it was time to quit sticking up for a regime that never gave a shit about you and throw your chips in with the only people who ever did you any favors.

But no, instead you call me out. Right there in front of my brand new apprentice and the rest of my followers. You force me to kill you, no pun intended. You ignorant little bitch, what made you think I even had the option of backing out at that point? The die had been cast, blood had already been shed. What the hell did you think was going to happen?

But it's all right. I don't really blame you.

I blame Carth.

Maybe you didn't know better, but he should have. In fact he certainly did, given the way ran for the hills once he realized what was happening. I blame him for not buying your life with his own. All that wannabe-hero horseshit he talked, and in the end he ran like a coward and left a teenage girl to face two Sith alone, with little more than a cry of "Run away!" over his shoulder as he fled. It ought to have been HE who stayed behind to die extolling the virtues of the Republic while YOU ran off into the woods.

The new Emperor of the Galaxy will not be kind to Carth, when he finally catches up to him.

[Megrim]

I think we played two different games.

Exactly.   You're only looking at it from your point of view.   My character never agreed to be her apprentice.  I was already no longer a padiwan or a teenager.  Thus she was annoying.

When you played BG2, did you complain that you had to play a child of Bhaal?

[Kail]

Part of it might be peoples alignments.  I played through light side KotOR and didn't really mind Carth, he fit pretty well with the whole vibe of the group, it was Canderous who got on my nerves.  Kreia is kind of the opposite, in that she's kind of a dick to light side players ("Oho, you think you're sooo nice giving money to beggars, eh?") and a better fit for the dark side story ("Bitch set me up, time to punch her") than the light side one ("Quick, murder that blind old woman before she kills God").

I know someone's going to chime in with "I played light side and I hated Carth, too!" but I do think he was a much more solid character in the light side story than in the dark side one.  In the light side story, he's a guy who gradually grows to respect and admire you, while in the dark side story his role is to complain every time you set someone on fire.

[Samprimary]

That said, Ingmar is right. "Whiner" and "whining" are charges leveled at characters all the time, for seemingly no reason other than "they are not emotionally stunted manchildren and/or not actively kissing my ass."

A lot of my friends who had played KOTOR extensively all insisted that Kaidan was a massive fucking whiner who whined all the time about everything.

I had the hardest time understanding this, because he wasn't ever really doing anything that you could call whining. When you talked to him about his history, he largely says 'yea, I mean, shit's shit, but I got over this stuff a long time ago, you know?" Hell, he's got this backstory of having these L2 implants that torture him and give him migraines and shit but you hardly even HEAR about this from him. You find out about it from Dr. Chakwas if you ask about him.

Later on I played KOTOR and I realized, oh, wait, I see. They can't mentally disassociate him from Carth.

[Lakov_Sanite]

That said, Ingmar is right. "Whiner" and "whining" are charges leveled at characters all the time, for seemingly no reason other than "they are not emotionally stunted manchildren and/or not actively kissing my ass."

A lot of my friends who had played KOTOR extensively all insisted that Kaidan was a massive fucking whiner who whined all the time about everything.

I had the hardest time understanding this, because he wasn't ever really doing anything that you could call whining. When you talked to him about his history, he largely says 'yea, I mean, shit's shit, but I got over this stuff a long time ago, you know?" Hell, he's got this backstory of having these L2 implants that torture him and give him migraines and shit but you hardly even HEAR about this from him. You find out about it from Dr. Chakwas if you ask about him.

Later on I played KOTOR and I realized, oh, wait, I see. They can't mentally disassociate him from Carth.

 

[eldaec]

Kaiden's inability to talk about anything that didn't happen more than 15 years ago made me associate him more with bao dur than Carth.

Didn't really see as a whiner, just an uninteresting waste of time.

[Paelos]

Kaiden was just bland.

[Merusk]

Kaiden was so bland I had to think for a moment to realize you all had switched to ME.  I couldn't even remember the fuckers name and I did a play-thorugh not more than 6 months ago.

Some companions won't tweak your interest, some will.  I thought the old Jedi dude in KOTOR was boring and worthless.. I never talked to him and only dragged him along because Jedi were so damn overpowered.  Mandalor wasn't exactly an inspiration, either, I much preferred the fixer-guy with the cybernetic appendage.. but he sucked in combat.

Mission. I don't know why anyone gave a fuck about her one way or another.  Even making her wookiee buddy choke her was more for the dark side points and the culetlty to the wookiee than any real need or want to on her part.   SHE was whiny, annoying and far too trusting.

[Sky]

I agree about Mission. That dark side twist always made me feel like shit about Big Z, not the obnoxious Twilek.

[eldaec]

I really had no problem with Mission. Probably I was being over influenced by the fact that she was interesting I'm combat (backstab mechanic mostly) because I can't see any rational reason not to hate her.

Kotor1  could carry pretty much any character. Even Carth never bothered me that much.

Also did Merusk just give props to Bao Dur? If so remind me never to pay any attention to your bizarre taste in boring ass writing ever again. Jesus Christ.

[Ingmar]

Not only that he gave props to Bao-Dur while dissing Jolee, who was awesome. (Not that they're in the same game.)

[Sky]

Bao-Dur was one of the companions I liked quite a bit, too 

[Paelos]

I liked Mandalore and HK.

[Sky]

Just watched Stargate SG-1 season 3 ep Dead Man Switch and the Bounty Hunter made me think of Canderous.

[Sjofn]

That said, Ingmar is right. "Whiner" and "whining" are charges leveled at characters all the time, for seemingly no reason other than "they are not emotionally stunted manchildren and/or not actively kissing my ass."

A lot of my friends who had played KOTOR extensively all insisted that Kaidan was a massive fucking whiner who whined all the time about everything.

I had the hardest time understanding this, because he wasn't ever really doing anything that you could call whining. When you talked to him about his history, he largely says 'yea, I mean, shit's shit, but I got over this stuff a long time ago, you know?" Hell, he's got this backstory of having these L2 implants that torture him and give him migraines and shit but you hardly even HEAR about this from him. You find out about it from Dr. Chakwas if you ask about him.

Later on I played KOTOR and I realized, oh, wait, I see. They can't mentally disassociate him from Carth.

To be fair to your friends, the dude who voiced them both did not try even a teeny tiny bit to have Kaiden sound even the slightest bit different from Carth. Shit, I refer to Kaiden as Carth all the time because of it. 

But yeah, Kaiden was one of the ones I was thinking of being accused of being a whiner when he barely even complains about anything. Fordel was going on and on about how Kaiden whines about his headaches while I was playing through ME1 the first time, so I kept expecting it to come up. The person who told me he had them at all was Dr. Chakwas, and there was a single elevator banter between Kaiden and ... Boring Blue Girl whose name just fled my memory. And he was all "Meh, it's fine, I'm used to them." That's it. He never mentioned them to me directly at all!


Also anyone who doesn't see Jolee as the awesome crabby old man sitting on a porch that he is makes me sad. I fucking loved Jolee.

[sam, an eggplant]

Here's some schadenfreude for ya. Feast upon my tears, and be satiated.

Psych!

I just got in. Wooooo.

[Ingmar]

I probably wasn't going to want to spoiler myself anyway, but I've never been able to get their PC specs scan thing to work on my home machine.

[Lantyssa]

They should let me in to stop me making wise-cracks about the game.  It's their only hope.

[Sjofn]

I probably wasn't going to want to spoiler myself anyway, but I've never been able to get their PC specs scan thing to work on my home machine.

That beta is sour!

[Surlyboi]

Here's some schadenfreude for ya. Feast upon my tears, and be satiated.

Psych!

I just got in. Wooooo.

Aren't you not supposed to mention that you got in? You know and all?

[sam, an eggplant]

You're allowed to say you're in the beta, you just can't talk about anything else.

[Merusk]

Oh noes F13 dislikes something not dark, gritty and written for a 13 year old's "i'mma be a man someday" mentality. Stop the presses.

Bao-Dur was one of the companions I liked quite a bit, too 

He had an interesting story and more depth than "rawr, don't do that" or "rawr, kick that puppy" so I'm not surprised.  

Jolee was a caricature of a grumpy old black man and didn't do it with even 1/3 of the style or cantankerousness Red Foxx had.  He was a pale shadow of what they were trying to achieve and irritating because of it.  It came off as George Jefferson and Cliff Huxtible's love child.

[Modern Angel]

Hahaha, the size of this install. You only wish it was 40GB. This is going to blow your fucking mind.

[Murgos]

Hahaha, the size of this install. You only wish it was 40GB. This is going to blow your fucking mind.

Bah.  Bah, I say.