Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 15, 2019, 07:22:14 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
Donate! | Shop: Amazon
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Warhammer Online (Moderator: tazelbain)  |  Topic: What went wrong. 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 21 Go Down Print
Author Topic: What went wrong.  (Read 118053 times)
Lakov_Sanite
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7590


on: October 22, 2008, 09:24:19 AM

Well it's been over a month and by all accounts it looks like people have been jumping ship left and right once 'teh shiny' wore off.

Now the question is, what happened? There's at least three threads that have all spiraled off into this land so let's try and consolidate.

Specifically not what's bad about the game but what happened, or could have happened to change the outcome?

My personal thought is the beta is where it all started. Testing by teir, keeping things very hush, it led to an isolationist development, poorly implement(but good) ideas and a confused vision.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
McSteak
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11


Reply #1 on: October 22, 2008, 09:24:59 AM

Well it's been over a month and by all accounts it looks like people have been jumping ship left and right once 'teh shiny' wore off.

Now the question is, what happened? There's at least three threads that have all spiraled off into this land so let's try and consolidate.

Specifically not what's bad about the game but what happened, or could have happened to change the outcome?

My personal thought is the beta is where it all started. Testing by teir, keeping things very hush, it led to an isolationist development, poorly implement(but good) ideas and a confused vision.

Number one reason - Too many servers, not enough people.
Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 21472


Reply #2 on: October 22, 2008, 09:26:14 AM

He's back awesome, for real
McSteak
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11


Reply #3 on: October 22, 2008, 09:27:10 AM

He's back awesome, for real


Gonna do it right this time.  awesome, for real
raydeen
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1246


Reply #4 on: October 22, 2008, 09:27:49 AM

He's back awesome, for real


Twins maybe?

edit: nevermind.

Actually, I don't know if what's wrong can be quantified yet. I've had most of my toons on Ulth and just hit 12 with my main. Frankly it was a starting to feel like a real bitch - never anyone doing PQ's, tons of time waiting to get into any scenario that didn't start with Norden and end in Watch, Tier 1 RvR was a dead zone or I just never saw anyone. I saw a total of 4 enemy players, killed one, got killed by another...boring.

So I rolled on another server (Drakwald) destro side. There are tons of lowbies running around doing things. I haven't been able to do a scenario yet (either the queue would never pop or the game would CTD before one would pop). I think what's broken on one server may be fine on another. Hate to say it, but Mythic's best option may be to shutter some servers and wait and see if the population demands more room at a later date. People would probably scream and moan that they'd have to transfer, but I think there'd be more fun to be had if there were more people to play with.

If one thing needs to change it's that goddamn chickening mechanic. Take it out. EQ did things right years ago by having a PvP level range. Or at the very least do a CoX damage modifier where everyone can participate but you won't have 40's one shotting 1's and 1's can do some damage against a 40.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 09:40:36 AM by raydeen »

I was drinking when I wrote this, so sue me if it goes astray.
Miasma
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5283

Stopgap Measure


Reply #5 on: October 22, 2008, 09:28:12 AM

Thread seems premature.  Most people haven't even reached the endgame RvR yet, we also have no idea how many people have left.  Thread will be timely once WotLK releases.
Slayerik
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4868

Victim: Sirius Maximus


Reply #6 on: October 22, 2008, 09:32:51 AM

As an outsider looking in, I have noticed the mood shift pretty quickly from "Robot Jesus" to "Uh....I like it but...."

The next phase is just not logging in, not for any particular reason...you just lose the urge to grind anymore. It's kinda happening on a similar timeframe as AoC, scarily, and I find the thread name to be kind of fitting if there is a mass exodus within the next month.

"I have more qualifications than Jesus and earn more than this whole board put together.  My ego is huge and my modesty non-existant." -Ironwood
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10447


Reply #7 on: October 22, 2008, 09:41:53 AM

The testing environment may be part of it, but it runs a little deeper than that. I don't think any MMOG designer has ever fully matched most aspects of their implementation to the underlying central idea behind their design. Blizzard has had the best process for tacking back and forth in the wind to keep their live management of their design close to the core customer base--they've sometimes drifted quite far from that core, most notably at the point where they were pouring most of their design resources into AQ and Naxx under the influence of ex-EQ designers, but they've found a way to keep steering back from extremes while larding on various small minigames and smaller activities to keep a range of constituencies amused.

WAR, on the other hand, is nothing if PvP isn't happening in a way that satisfies the people who've come for PvP. That's the clear design decision that they made early on, but I think Mythic hasn't entirely understood how to consistently implement a design that will achieve that goal. In part, that's because they've been distracted by a perceived need to supply a lot of the "default" features of a MMOG around WoW's standardization--in effect, trying to put a few eggs in other baskets. This is a bad idea: you cannot compete with WoW in that respect. But the more you play WAR, the more clear it becomes (and here defects in the testing process are important) that the designers didn't even fully understand what players want when they want to do PvP in a *MMOG format*.

I can get online any time I like, for no subscription fee other than for an overall service like XBL, and have a fast-paced multiplayer team battle in any number of well-designed games. Some of these even have well-defined "classes", like Team Fortress 2. This is the analogy to scenarios: scenarios in WAR are WAR's version of standard-issue multiplayer gaming, with the one proviso that the consequences of one game session carry over to the next (e.g., I get XP, RP and maybe some item drops) and that because of those consequences, players of the same class will vary somewhat in their underlying abilities. Because of that in turn, the competition between players is governed partly by those in-game abilities as much as it is governed by the reflexes of the person playing the game.

That is not enough to define PvP in a MMOG format. What most PvPers want is for PvP to matter in a wider gameworld, to spill out of the heavily domesticated environment of a scenario, to involve large-scale coordination of many people to achieve meaningful objectives that have consequences which persist over some amount of time. If that's what people want, that's what you have to deliver. And this design objective has a lot of really complicated problems built into it which no MMOG to date has successfully addressed. WAR is the latest to only partially and spastically deal with the implementation of such a game--at times because I think Mythic's designers didn't really understand that this was THE selling point for their game, and at times because I think they chickened out on really embracing this concept because of its intrinsic difficulties.

So they have a game that's not really fish nor fowl, but a customer base that is there pretty much only for the fried chicken.
slog
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6239


Reply #8 on: October 22, 2008, 09:50:51 AM

What went wrong?

Mythic made the same mistake George W Bush made in 2000.   When Bush took office, the philosphy was "Anything besides Clinton".  This lead to Bush throwiing a lot a of good stuff and really crippled his Administration.

Mythic did "Anything besides Blizzard"

Chat system:  The right answer was "copy Blizzard" Mythic's Answer: Waste valuable resources reinventing chat.  (and it sucks)

Beta Testing: the right answer was "copy Blizzard"  Mythic's Answer: "Try to keep every super serkit"  Result: The beta test didn't reflect how the players would actaully play the game at live.  They had no idea Open RvR wasn't going to be as popular in Live as it was in Beta.

Leveling speed: The right answer was "copy Blizzard. Fast leveling is good!" Mythic's answer: ZOMG ONE WEEK BEFORE LIVE NERF XP"

I could go on and on, but it's pointless.

« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 10:26:24 AM by slog »

"Die of flaming ass cancer you schmuck. No really, die."

.
Zzulo
Terracotta Army
Posts: 290


Reply #9 on: October 22, 2008, 09:58:51 AM

I get a lot the complaints people bring up about WAR

I personally think it is the incentives for ORVR that are most lacking


the one thing I don't get is "omg the leveling is soo slooow"  swamp poop

Sorry, but the leveling is really really not slow. I have no idea where people get this from. My time /played to 35 is around 3-4 days. That is nothing in an MMO environment!
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 10:01:26 AM by Zzulo »
Tarami
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1980


Reply #10 on: October 22, 2008, 10:01:42 AM

If I'm to have only one opinion, I think it pretty much went wrong around the time the designers at Mythic decided it wouldn't have any kind of player funneling. With less spread of content, what content there would be could have been tighter, hell, even populated despite the low cap on server population. Even with proper rewards for each sphere of gameplay in place, this is an issue.

There's too much of everything - whether it be PQs, parallell zones, scenarios, RvR lakes, classes or gameplay flavours (and nearly, capital cities). It's trying to make everything available within arm's reach and missing the point of "massive" in the attempt. I imagine huge amounts of resources have been spent on making six completely different PvE progressions.

Like I've said before - it's Autobahn for cyclists.

- I'm giving you this one for free.
- Nothing's free in the waterworld.
Modern Angel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3553


Reply #11 on: October 22, 2008, 10:11:53 AM



the one thing I don't get is "omg the leveling is soo slooow"  swamp poop

Sorry, but the leveling is really really not slow. I have no idea where people get this from. My time /played to 35 is around 3-4 days. That is nothing in an MMO environment!

It's not even that it's slow. It's that it *feels* slow. For serious, every single quest is kill some things or pick something up in a spot where you have to kill things. Every. Single. One. There's not a single escort quest that I've found. There is no scripting of any complexity besides in a few of the PQs. Every single mob is exactly the same.  Repetitive is even worse than slow.

But you have to have PvE. If you have no PvE to establish the narrative of the wider world then you're stuck with Fury. If you're stuck with that, why don't I just fuck off and play TF2?

The XP curve is balanced around doing PQs, PvE and scenarios in equal measure. Only one of those is fun and it's only fun if you're not running the same scenario all day, every day. You have to PvE for remotely decent loot. I could be level 40 in a day and it would STILL feel grindier than it actually is in mean time investment terms.

Then there were the technical issues which, admittedly, have gotten a little better. But not good enough. Collision issues based on lag, lighting effects which cause a freeze every so often, I still crash... it's tiresome. Not gamebreaking, mind you, but tiresome.
Vinadil
Terracotta Army
Posts: 334


Reply #12 on: October 22, 2008, 10:14:33 AM

The thing is... the game DOES funnel you, and it does so brilliantly, IF you make it to Tier 4.  So, the problem seems to be that getting to Tier 4 takes too long/too much work.  This is especially felt in Tier 3, where things just went from "moderately fast" to "horribly slow".  Sure it is not horribly slow compared to OTHER games, but it is horribly slow compared to the previous tiers.  That is the problem.  Players who were taught to expect a certain speed of advancement hit a huge slow down.  Then they are stuck in a tier NOT designed to funnel people and get the idea that the game will always be like this.

Gotta get people to T4.  Now, we did not test it enough to know if that will be lasting fun, but it is much better than T3, at least in my experience.
Nebu
Terracotta Army
Posts: 17613


Reply #13 on: October 22, 2008, 10:19:36 AM

1) Low levels of participation in all aspects but scenarios.  PQ's and open RvR are great in concept, but don't seem to be popular beyond the first tier.

2) Off-peak time populations are too low

3) Rewards don't justify effort

4) Poor to terrible itemization

5) The grind after 25 is crippling.  Add 1) and people are doing nothing but waiting on scenario queues for the same (read: most efficient) scenarios

6) Population imbalances weren't properly addresses and adjusted for

7) Crafting sucks and seems useless

8) Class balance issues


Note: I love what WAR wants to do.  I see the beauty of it in the first tier.  I just want the game to get out of my way and let me have fun... but it seems to keep getting in the way with long grinds due mostly to enduring repitition in order to get to the fun. 
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 10:26:21 AM by Nebu »

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Zzulo
Terracotta Army
Posts: 290


Reply #14 on: October 22, 2008, 10:20:26 AM

I actually found T4 to feel much faster than T3, which was really odd.

Arthur_Parker
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5865

Internet Detective


Reply #15 on: October 22, 2008, 10:23:40 AM

I actually found T4 to feel much faster than T3, which was really odd.

Yeah me as well.  I think it's because you can relax, you get boosted to 36 for pvp so there's no mad desire on my part to level fast any more.
waylander
Terracotta Army
Posts: 526


Reply #16 on: October 22, 2008, 10:26:15 AM

What went wrong? Warhammer is evolutionary but not revolutionary, and so it has a big sense of "I've played this kind of game before". Therefore it was important that the game have some better hooks to keep players around.

Specifically:

1.
Without the players, there is no PVP game. As others have said, the players are just too spread out whether its PVE or PVP.

2.
Since T4 is the end game, War put too much emphasis on trapping people in lower tiers with slow exp or forcing people to take time from PVP to grind PVE quests or PQ's for gear. The PVE was pretty boring, and its time we moved past kill 10, 15, 25 of this, that, or the other. There was also a big time sink with people running back and forth to quest NPC's.

3.
Community content, PQ's, were a good idea but there are way too many of them per tier/zone. The public really didn't like how contribution scores worked, and PQ's gave too few loot bags. The people who did do PQ's often couldn't complete them because Stages II/III were generally too hard for 1-3 man teams that weren't premades. PQ's were a good idea, but poorly implemented.

4.
RVR simply had too many lakes. Each tier had two keeps in each zone, when it probably should have been just 1 keep per zone until Tier 4.  RVR experience was virtually non existant, rewards were few. Nothing pisses off organized guilds worse than busting their ass and then some random scrub who wonders in and contributes virtually nothing ends up with the first place purple loot bag.

Also owning a keep gave you nothing but a place to hang a banner while draining your guild bank of 144 gold per day.

5.
People don't like zergs and scenarios yielded better exp/rewards/rewnown per hour than dealing with RVR keeps. DAOC had towers on the frontiers for smaller guilds, while War gives small guilds nothing. Every PVP game that provides nothing for smaller guilds (AOC, Shadowbane, etc) ends up with those guilds leaving in large numbers because they feel that they can't be part of the end game.

6.
People don't like being mislead, and the notion that PVP gear would be good felt misleading to many. In fact after Tier 2, PVP gear is horrible and not on par with PQ/Quest gear. On top of that there is also WARD gear that is virtually required so you can survive the Fortress Lord, and of course you have to PVE grind dungeons for that. If people are going to be forced to PVE grind for gear, then WoW or other games simply do PVE better.

7.
The other thing of note is that modern games have been a lot more friendly to allowing you to play with your friends even if you outlevel them. Mythic took the old school approach and designed their game to where you are once again separated from your friends if they outlevel you, and removed any possibility for friends to PL their lower level buddies who couldn't keep up for whatever reason.

8.
They made Destruction cool, and made Order look like gimps. Everyone warned them about population imbalances and the potential effects, and Mythic's response was "we learned a lot from DAOC.  In reality they didn't, and in DAOC they had to cluster servers.

In conclusion, the overall game design is too dependent on having a critical mass with both player factions, people are forced into bad PVE, RVR isn't rewarding or fun right now, you are punished for outleveling your friends, and there's no real role for smaller guilds in the game. AOC proved that you can't sell a bunch of boxes and think players are going to hang around for a year while you patch up your game.  Players have less patience for that, and if the game isn't fun then you can lose a lot of your potential subscribers before the 90 window is even up.

 

Lords of the Dead
Gaming Press - Retired
Ossigor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12


Reply #17 on: October 22, 2008, 10:27:14 AM

Sorry, but the leveling is really really not slow. I have no idea where people get this from.

This. With only 40 levels, the time per level is stretched out and makes each "ding" further away than other MMO games. Blizzard constantly rewards you with treats as you go along. Each level is a "FUCK YEAH TALENT POINT" whereas in WAR it's more like "FUCK NO I HAVE TO FILL MY XP BAR AGAIN" because the rewards (talents, etc) are fewer.

If you notice, you don't even get a career point each level until level 20ish. Thats so they can give you one every level after where you only get a skill every 2-4 levels or so. Also, mastery points don't feel like they do anything until later in the game. Oh, and you just got to a new skill/tactic? NOW WAIT another level because you have to BUY it with another whole level (ie hours of scenario grinding) just to use it.

On the flip side, I still play and enjoy the game for the most part. EQ hell levels learned me well.
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 40569

Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you and other troops you control.


WWW
Reply #18 on: October 22, 2008, 10:29:05 AM

The leveling is slow once you hit tier 3 for a few reasons:

  • Everyone does the SAME GODDAMN SCENARIO. Scenarios are great ways to level through PVP, but they suck if it's the same badly-designed scenarios. I've now played all but 1 of the scenarios in t3 at least once - and Tor Anroc is the worst design of all of them. The knockbacks, the lava, the distances between battles - it's bad.
  • The amount of PVE Quest-based content dries up. At least for the Empire side, I went from having 4-5 quests presented to me in the first town of a new area (High Pass) to having a total of 2 quests (Hergig Landing). Also, quest experience did not increase but the amount of experience needed per level sure as fuck did.
  • Each new rank gives me a new ability, only there are some abilities that aren't worth shit. Seriously, at least 2-3 levels, the only new ability I got was a tactic. Since I can only use so many tactics at once, it's pretty inevitable that some will just not be used. And when the tactic is the only new ability at a level, that means I'm stuck using the same special abilities in every fight until the next level. Witch Hunters at level 23 get a tactic that immediately goes into the bin. Too many tactics, not enough special attacks.



Venkman
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11536


Reply #19 on: October 22, 2008, 10:35:55 AM

Don't we have three thread for this already?

In general: they took what insights they could from WoW but applied it to improving DAoC instead of improving WoW. Everything else was standard Mythic operating procedure, all predictable, all predicted (not testing the way players would actually play, not understanding the concerns veterans brought up, most purchasers having been beta testers so knowing the issues going in, etc.

I still say we need to wait and see where this all nets out in January though. Q4 holiday shopping season is very long. And while WotLK is coming, WAR is still the only game you can advance a character in solely on PvP. That is still going to mean a lot either until players don't like the higher tiers they achieved, or Blizzard rips off the idea.
trias_e
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1296


Reply #20 on: October 22, 2008, 10:55:30 AM

Nothing went wrong yet.  They still have 3 weeks.

I think that many players are hanging around in limbo, watching the game but not playing it very often, wondering when they are going to make some significant changes.  These players won't wait around very long.  3 weeks of course also coincides with another well known release.

And people wonder why Mark might be stressed out.  The next 3 weeks could determine whether his game is a 250k niche game or a 1 mil+ WoW-competitor. 
Nebu
Terracotta Army
Posts: 17613


Reply #21 on: October 22, 2008, 10:59:30 AM

And people wonder why Mark might be stressed out.  The next 3 weeks could determine whether his game is a 250k niche game or a 1 mil+ WoW-competitor. 

I think that decision has already been made.  I'm not sure anyone other than EvE has been able to overcome first impressions. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
tazelbain
Unknown
Posts: 6603

tazelbain


Reply #22 on: October 22, 2008, 11:02:59 AM

I think people make a lot good points but most them could have been easily overlooked if wasn't the pointless grind to RvR.  Either make RvR functional in T1-T3 or get rid the grind.  I think people wouldn't mind being stuck in T3 if there something to do there besides Tor Anrco.  Or they wouldn't mind T3 sucking if it was 10 hours.  Ideally you do both.  

Focus on fun, let retention sort itself out.  Mythic hasn't learned a goddamn thing from WoW.

"Me am play gods"
schild
Administrator
Posts: 58598


WWW
Reply #23 on: October 22, 2008, 11:05:52 AM

From WoW? Why even say that, they didn't learn from Funcom.

They have roughly the same amount of content after the first half of the game - which is fuckall. And the key features don't work - though this time it's more due to the lack of people.
Nebu
Terracotta Army
Posts: 17613


Reply #24 on: October 22, 2008, 11:07:50 AM

I can't find the quote, but someone nailed it in an earlier thread.  Something to the effect of: "Name one game that has suffered retention problems because players leveled too fast?".  

WAR appears to be very endgame focused and there doesn't seem to be much reason for the 1-40 journey beyond learning to play your class.  You don't get interesting abilities often enough, you don't obtain anything worth keeping, and you certainly don't feel like you matter to the game world.  It's like DAoC deja vu.  The only reason anyone did anything beyond get to level 50 asap was because they wanted to stay in a particular BG.  

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
trias_e
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1296


Reply #25 on: October 22, 2008, 11:25:57 AM

Quote
Something to the effect of: "Name one game that has suffered retention problems because players leveled too fast?". 

Age of Conan.  Of course, it's never just fast leveling that kills a game, but it's fast leveling in combination with other things.

I pointed out in the epic thread that there are 2 reasons to have slow leveling:

1)  So a player feels they have an investment in their character and don't want to go else where.  Note that this has been relegated to the endgame only thanks to WoW, but it was the model used the entire game for EQ and DAOC.  If you simply don't give the player an opportunity to attach to their character, they will simply move to a game where they will.  This was what happened to those who got to 80 in AoC to the best of my knowledge.

2)  If your content at high levels sucks, or your endgame needs a lot of work.  This also applies to AOC.  In this case, you hope that your earlier content is good enough to keep people playing long enough for you to fix the later shit.  You certainly don't want people leveling up quickly and seeing they have nothing whatsoever to do for the next month as you desperately try to patch faster.  You're better off just giving people a grind.

I'm pretty sure WAR doesn't fall into the first category, because their endgame theoretically should be solid for player attachment assuming RR80 takes a long time to get to, and there's plenty of content/other means of advancement at 40.

So we're looking at either stubbornness or the second category.
pxib
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4567


Reply #26 on: October 22, 2008, 11:33:51 AM

PvE sucks because:

- Each PvE fight plays exactly the same. The different abilities mobs use largely cannot be interrupted or mitigated, nor do they seem to have unique weaknesses or strengths, so players fighting them wind up using the same abilities they always use in roughly the same sequence. Therefore differences between mobs and mob types feel entirely cosmetic.

- On a similar note, mobs don't pull in groups, likely because players lack group-mitigation abilities (root, mez, fear). As frustrating as these abilities are when used against you in PvP, their absence makes PvE less tactically interesting.

- Monster hitpoints scale faster than player damage. so time per kill increases as experience bar percentage per kill decreases.

- Individual level progression does not guarantee any notable player improvement. Many new skills, for example, will have limited use in PvE. New Career Tactics don't stack with old ones and there's no reason to change Tactics for 99% of PvE fights.

- Any time spent PvEing is time you can't spend grinding scenarios for superior experience plus renown. PvE feels like a waste of time.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 11:37:30 AM by pxib »

if at last you do succeed, never try again
schild
Administrator
Posts: 58598


WWW
Reply #27 on: October 22, 2008, 11:35:43 AM

Quote
Age of Conan. 

I don't think this had anything to do with fast-leveling. Even with slow leveling, post 40 was a nightmare. I don't think they could've filled it out fast enough either way, particularly with the previous leadership.
LK
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4268


Reply #28 on: October 22, 2008, 11:36:22 AM

Cue Mark Jacobs positive spin in 3... 2... 1...

"Then there's the double-barreled shotgun from Doom 2 - no-one within your entire household could be of any doubt that it's been fired because it sounds like God slamming a door on his fingers." - Yahtzee Croshaw
Nebu
Terracotta Army
Posts: 17613


Reply #29 on: October 22, 2008, 11:36:51 AM

At the moment, PvE serves two functions:

1) A way to improve gear.  The reknown gear is terrible.

2) Something to do while waiting on a scenario queue.  

As you noted, the PvE is pretty terribly implemented.  It's dull and often too slow paced.  I'm fine with this as long as I'm able to get the same or better rewards from pvp/RvR.  Sadly, this doesn't seem to be the case... which is a monumental mistake.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Lakov_Sanite
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7590


Reply #30 on: October 22, 2008, 11:37:12 AM

Look at this http://blue.mmo-champion.com/ take a moment to scroll back, see how far it goes. This is direct developer to customer feedback, this is how you run a business. Now granted some of those posts are frivilous but most address issues and even if they are trite they let players know that yes, someone is out there listening.

Not having official forums....is it a game breaker? no not really but I guarentee it doesn't help retention and in some places I'll bet it can be that last nail in the coffin. It boggles my mind still that mythic somehow thought not having forums was a good idea. That was my first indicator that this game was destined to mediocrity because it's being run by a team that is stuck in a mindset of five years ago.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 40569

Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you and other troops you control.


WWW
Reply #31 on: October 22, 2008, 11:41:17 AM

You know, I'm going to sort of defend Mythic on the no official forums decision, if only as a backhanded compliment. Having no official forums would be fine, if the Herald site was actually used in anything other than a pisspoor manner. Dev diaries? Barely noticeable hot fix messages? Maybe it's the design, but the customer communication that site is supposed to provide just isn't there. DAoC Herald was much better run in the days when I played DAoC.

Checkers
Terracotta Army
Posts: 62


Reply #32 on: October 22, 2008, 11:46:32 AM

I reached level 22 and never once experienced oRvR.  Without the promised oRvR there is absolutely nothing to keep my interest.  I came to this game specifically for pvp that was not like WoW battlegrounds .
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 11:49:52 AM by Checkers »
Ard
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1879


Reply #33 on: October 22, 2008, 12:00:58 PM

I reached level 22 and never once experienced oRvR.  Without the promised oRvR there is absolutely nothing to keep my interest.  I came to this game specifically for pvp that was not like WoW battlegrounds .

Okay, I'm going to tackle this one and be not nice about it.  Did you ever check open groups in the various zones for RVR warbands?  They're really easy to find.  You just have to go to the warcamp, and hop flight points till you see action, if any is going on. 

Barring a lack of groups, you can also check the maps for hot spot activities, they show up there, and you can easily run out there and see if a group is going on, and ask to join or just help them.  Did you?

Barring that, did you ever go to the warcamp, and ask around if anyone wanted to RVR, did you ever take the initiative to try to form an RVR group of your own? 

Barring that, are you in a guild, if so, did your guild ever form up for RVR?  Mine certainly did, and it was fun.  If not, why have you not at least looked around for a guild to join, in a game focused around group activity?

I mean, come fucking on, there are literally ZERO barriers to rvr, other than low population servers.
Hayduke
Terracotta Army
Posts: 560


Reply #34 on: October 22, 2008, 12:01:22 PM

A lot of little things for me.

The dreadful grinding while not necessarily slow (since I can't even bring myself to get high enough to truly experience the pain by most accounts) is mindnumbingly dull.  It's like all the quests are filler for lore which I don't read anyway because I'm not a Warhammer junkie, but they put no thought into how they're actually done or how they should reward players.  The PQs are generally barren so while you can solo the first two stages if you want to grind inf it becomes very slow and tedious and you're still missing out on the money shot.

The scenarios feel like they were ripped from Unreal Tournament and don't fit within the context of an mmorpg.  Plus they're boring and lopsided.  There's no permanency so you end up with 11 other mismatched pugs and nobody communicates because it's all over in 10 minutes.

There's no community because the playerbase is isolated, provincial and totally transient.  If you're like me and don't have a lot of online friends good luck meeting anyone you'd like to guild with, so enjoy pugging your way through scenarios to 40.

On the plus sides-
The classes are awesome and all a lot of fun.  They may not all be balanced for 1v1 but they all have a place in group matchups.  I like that some of the hooks are pretty well thought out (grudge and the melee healer stuff).  Some of the others feel like poorly implemented gimmicks though.
ORvR when it happens is a blast.  There should be more rewards though and more importance on zone control.  I think they should've focused on more quests and PvE in the lakes so people would more stuff to fight over.
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 21 Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Warhammer Online (Moderator: tazelbain)  |  Topic: What went wrong.  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC