The Elder Scrolls Online

[LC]

Don't we have SWOR for that already, or hasn't it imploded enough yet to put up the "beware, toxicly stale ideas here!"-sign up?

I was hating that game before it was cool to hate it. Of course nobody wanted to hear anything negative about that game since it was "FUCKIN BIOWARE DUDE".

[LC]

Interest killed, mainly due to the bolded bits.

I would be forced to bold the entire list so there's no point. They should really fire everyone responsible for the information released so far.  Proper PR and strategically missing bits of information would have most people swooning over this turd.

[UnSub]

Many of you are mad cause you love TES.  

Not mad at all and don't even like TES based on my Skyrim experience.

I'm settling in for the near-inevitable car crash.

Why is TESO set up for such problems? Because:

1) Skyrim worked because it was basically a big MMO world set up for one player. Every quest giver was just waiting for you, the Dragonborn / Listener / Head of Thieves Guild / Bard / Head Companion etc etc to come along and deliver their mail. This made a lot of players feel special. When there is a world full of players doing the same thing, running the same dungeons at the same time, it is going to be a lot less special.

2) Yeah, the mechanics sound weak right now. And that's because...

3) Development of this game started in 2007 (according to the above information) which is before a lot of things changed in the MMO industry. Sub-based titles are now going F2P to keep revenue up. SWOR launched with a bang and now looks to be in a hard decline. Plus back in 2007 there was still the thought that you could out-WoW if only you did <insert pet hypothesis>. Lots of titles have tried and none have succeeded in coming within even the same vague region of WoW's popularity, no matter what they did.

4) Matt Firor means nothing to me. Even if he personally coded every line of DAOC and launched it himself, it would still mean very little because MMO developers are almost guaranteed to fall over with their second attempt at a MMO, at least in the AAA space. About the only two I can think of who didn't are Scott Hartsman (EQ2 enhancement role to RIFT) and the former devs of Shadowbane who went on to develop Wizard 101.

5) DAOC's PvP is famous for its own issues (e.g. overpowered classes, the two strongest sides teaming up to beat up the smallest third side and steal all their relics) and that was back in a time when players were more accepting of those problems.

6) I've got no interest in DAOC either, and TESO will not be DAOC 2. Or even the version of DAOC that you liked the best, before whichever expansions / patches you thought ruined the game.

7) PC players are used to modding TES games until they get them to a point that they are happy with. Unless TESO is going to allow that kind of player involvement - and they aren't - then PC players will generally be forced to play TESO as the developers want them to play it. This is going to make the mod community unhappy.

8) My Skyrim experience was a lot of sneaking and ranged arrow attacks that one- or two-shot my targets. I don't think TESO is going to allow that under a DIKU-based title because then it makes melee combat skills completely redundant.

9) We've heard very similar promises before and they failed to deliver on them. I'm not expecting it to be different this time.

10) The TES lore (as shown in Skyrim) is incredibly bland. Interesting lore can get me into reading about a game, and TES lacks that.

I could keep coming up with reasons, but this is why I have little to no interest in TESO.

[Tannhauser]

I'm almost always optimistic at the release of a new MMO, but not this time. Making it a MMO already makes it completely unlike a TES game.  It might be a great MMO, but the gameplay will be unrecognizable to a TES player.

I'm not doomcasting, but it would be easier to shove an ironing board up a rhino's ass.

[Paelos]

I'm doomcasting. Because they aren't making a TES game.

[Rendakor]

They really should have named this something else. I've been a pretty big TES fan since Morrowind, and I'm also a big MMO fan, yet I have zero interest in this because it seems to be taking the worst of both worlds. Here's my list of "features" that kill my interest:

-There will be no player housing
-There will be no NPC romances or marriage
-"Recreateing the freedom Elder Scrolls players expect within the World of Warcraft-style mechanics Zenimax Online is using for this MMO would be impossible without changing the way that players interact with the world."
-The game uses MMORPG genre standards such as classes, experience points, and other traditional MMORPG progression mechanics, but they try to present it "around the core fantasy presented by traditiona Elder Scrolls games" such as traveling around and righting wrongs or seeking riches
-The combat is based around a stamina bar which you can use to sprint, block, interrupt, and break incapacitating effects
-Blocking is the primary focus of these abilities, and can do things like stopping the secondary effects of attacks such as an ice spell slowing you
-ZeniMax feels that having the stamina bar will help break down the Holy Trinity as stamina allows you to do things like tank
-However, healing is still a big part of the game

Also:
-Lolz srs PVP/RVR gaem gaiz!

[Malakili]

I have zero interest in this because it seems to be taking the worst of both worlds.

This pretty much sums it up. 

[HaemishM]

since I heard rumors of the MMO Matt Firor was working on in 2007, I've been waiting for this, and if you look at that article with non-jaded eyes, and give a little faith to Firor and his team, it's easy to still be excited.

There is not one, NOT ONE GODDAMN MMO DEV who has earned or deserves any sort of "FAITH" whatso-fucking-ever. A second look, maybe. Faith? Fuck a bunch of that. The history of MMO's is littered with shitpiles, bug-infested creaking wallet-sucking eye-gouging monstrosities that take your pretty faith and skullfuck it with the 16 Tentacles of Rapine.

MMO's are the playgrounds of little-minded smelly geeks who get moist at the thought of Gibson's Matrix and a sense of god-domain arrogance that their "Vision" can create a world that deserves a $15/month subscription fee. They are entirely too complex a creation for the level of sheer incompetence the games industry thrives on.

[blackwulf]

since I heard rumors of the MMO Matt Firor was working on in 2007, I've been waiting for this, and if you look at that article with non-jaded eyes, and give a little faith to Firor and his team, it's easy to still be excited.

There is not one, NOT ONE GODDAMN MMO DEV who has earned or deserves any sort of "FAITH" whatso-fucking-ever. A second look, maybe. Faith? Fuck a bunch of that. The history of MMO's is littered with shitpiles, bug-infested creaking wallet-sucking eye-gouging monstrosities that take your pretty faith and skullfuck it with the 16 Tentacles of Rapine.

MMO's are the playgrounds of little-minded smelly geeks who get moist at the thought of Gibson's Matrix and a sense of god-domain arrogance that their "Vision" can create a world that deserves a $15/month subscription fee. They are entirely too complex a creation for the level of sheer incompetence the games industry thrives on.

I think maybe you should stop playing MMOs if they are making you this angry.  I haven't spent hundreds (thousands) of hours in MMOs over the last 12 years or so because I was having a terrible time.  I like them.  Yeah, I get frustrated with design decisions, but if there are really bad (SWTOR) I just don't stick around.  Some have kept me busy off and on for years.  I really don't have any hate for any of the devs, even Brad M.  Matt Firor has had nothing to do with those 'shitpiles' you are referring to - he went from early DAOC to working on this game.  I'm gonna see how it turns out before I start freaking out, like many people are doing.

[Scold]

The main point is that the combat is based on the same stupid button-mashing-mmo-bar shit. Where was the action bar in TES stuff? I must have missed that one.

Yeah, if you really liked the TES (Skyrim) combat, I don't think I can say anything to sway you.  I thought it was clunky and lame compared to 2001 era DAOC with positional styles and follow up chains and reactionary styles.  Based on the article, TESO is going to have a similar system but much more advanced.

You thought live action combat was... clunky and lame compared to... DIKU hotbar combat... what is this, i don't even...

[tgr]

I think maybe you should stop playing MMOs if they are making you this angry.  I haven't spent hundreds (thousands) of hours in MMOs over the last 12 years or so because I was having a terrible time.  I like them.  Yeah, I get frustrated with design decisions, but if there are really bad (SWTOR) I just don't stick around.  Some have kept me busy off and on for years.  I really don't have any hate for any of the devs, even Brad M.  Matt Firor has had nothing to do with those 'shitpiles' you are referring to - he went from early DAOC to working on this game.  I'm gonna see how it turns out before I start freaking out, like many people are doing.

And maybe, if they'd taken the name "daoc2" instead of "elder scrolls online", there'd be less nerdrage?

[Maledict]

I thought they trained paid shilles to post a few non-game related posts before going into forums with the innocent questions and cheer leading?

[Cadaverine]

Maybe it's Mr. Bloodworth's alt? 

As for a TES MMO, it's just a bad idea in general, and even more so trying to shoehorn it into a diku based MMO.  It's like they took a look at all the things that people enjoy about the TES games, and decided to do the opposite.

[blackwulf]

LOL - starting to remember why I lurked here for so many years without posting.  I did have many a laugh over the years following the drama between some of you, but really - it is a bit too tiring to keep this up.  Am I really the only MMO gamer who reads these forums that isn't too jaded and super snarky to say that this game looks cool?  None of you guys that wanted to give Arenanet blowjobs are willing to admit that TESO seems to have many of the same ideas going into it that got you all excited?

And please with the shill comments.  I wish.  I'm a damn middle school teacher - I could use some extra money.

[Malakili]

Am I really the only MMO gamer who reads these forums that isn't too jaded and super snarky to say that this game looks cool? 

Entirely probable.

But seriously, the reason this is getting such a strong reaction is because this is taking a very unique series that many of us legitimately love and basically making it look generic and uninteresting.  If this game was called "New MMO from Unknown Company with Original IP" it wouldn't have been met with anger here, but indifference.

[Kail]

Am I really the only MMO gamer who reads these forums that isn't too jaded and super snarky to say that this game looks cool?  None of you guys that wanted to give Arenanet blowjobs are willing to admit that TESO seems to have many of the same ideas going into it that got you all excited?

I don't think it looks cool, the only thing that's been revealed so far is very high level conceptual stuff which is vague and unsubstatiated and a screenshot that radiates meh.  I'm not getting tight in the pants about a WoW clone just because the dev says it won't have quest hubs or something, that's a feature that's going to be a feather on top of the mountain of implemetation questions we know nothing about yet as far as I can tell.  This stuff can go either way, could be decent, could suck, who knows.

The only thing we DO know for certain, from what they're saying, is that this game has almost nothing to do with TES, which is why I, at least, am annoyed.

I can appreciate that you have faith in this Firor guy, but I don't know him from Adam, so I'm not going to base my opinion of the game on his involvement.

If, at some point in the future, they announce something substantial that I find interesting, I'm more than willing to revise my opinion, but at this point, all I'm seeing is either annoying or "answer unclear, ask again later" stuff.

[Threash]

since I heard rumors of the MMO Matt Firor was working on in 2007, I've been waiting for this, and if you look at that article with non-jaded eyes, and give a little faith to Firor and his team, it's easy to still be excited.

There is not one, NOT ONE GODDAMN MMO DEV who has earned or deserves any sort of "FAITH" whatso-fucking-ever.

I'd buy anything the Rift devs put out, they earned plenty of faith from me.

[LC]

I'd buy anything the Rift devs put out, they earned plenty of faith from me.

Faith that they can make another mediocre game that loses over half of its subscribers in less than a year?  You can tell how well a game is doing by the number of special offers they send to your inbox each month.

[Threash]

Mediocre compared to what? Rift is pretty much the best mmo currently live.

[Modern Angel]

Shit, I'll tell you right now that Rift is probably the healthiest of all the non-WoW games in terms of cost to sub ratio. Trion's going to last forever.

[Draegan]

Rift is actually gaining subs right now if my web traffic is any sign.

[Tannhauser]

As someone who re-subbed to Rift a couple of days ago I'm getting a kick out of these replies.

[Paelos]

LOL - starting to remember why I lurked here for so many years without posting.  I did have many a laugh over the years following the drama between some of you, but really - it is a bit too tiring to keep this up.  Am I really the only MMO gamer who reads these forums that isn't too jaded and super snarky to say that this game looks cool?

Don't get all butthurt because we don't agree with you. Most of us poured our last bit of "hope" into SWTOR, if we had any left at all. If $300 gajillion and VO acting can't make a better gaming experience to action bar combat, and WoW itself can't stop tripping over it's own dick, exactly why should we be excited about seeing it AGAIN?

Did you not read in the article itself how many times they essentially apologized for the combat? They are already making excuses in a fucking preview. I really don't know how to explain it any better than that.

[caladein]

Most of us poured our last bit of "hope" into SWTOR, if we had any left at all.

I think you're mistaken.  *points at GW2 subforum*

[blackwulf]

LOL - starting to remember why I lurked here for so many years without posting.  I did have many a laugh over the years following the drama between some of you, but really - it is a bit too tiring to keep this up.  Am I really the only MMO gamer who reads these forums that isn't too jaded and super snarky to say that this game looks cool?

Don't get all butthurt because we don't agree with you. Most of us poured our last bit of "hope" into SWTOR, if we had any left at all. If $300 gajillion and VO acting can't make a better gaming experience to action bar combat, and WoW itself can't stop tripping over it's own dick, exactly why should we be excited about seeing it AGAIN?

Did you not read in the article itself how many times they essentially apologized for the combat? They are already making excuses in a fucking preview. I really don't know how to explain it any better than that.

Yeah, and I'll be honest - the 4 or 5 times that guy who wrote the article, Adam Biessener, brought up comparisons to WoW, I shuddered.  I'm just hoping that he did that because his thought train was something like, "WoW is huge, and all my readers know WoW, I'll base comparisons on that game."  I really want to see some official verbage and some gameplay footage.  When is E3 again?

[Kageru]

Most of us poured our last bit of "hope" into SWTOR, if we had any left at all.

I don't know why you would do that. Pretty much all the information out of SWTOR development gave the same vibes as this press release.

"Don't really understand this whole MMO thing, but think we'd look good in money-hats".

Bioware believed their skill in story telling and IP was enough. This game seems to believe their IP is enough, which is pretty hilarious. And both believed they could pretty much get away with "same again" in terms of gameplay.

[koro]

Am I really the only MMO gamer who reads these forums that isn't too jaded and super snarky to say that this game looks cool?

Hi! You apparently missed my post a few pages ago wherein I specifically mentioned I wasn't hella jaded, even though I have every reason to be. So no, you're not alone.

I think, judging by what's been shown and mentioned, TESO looks terrible from the basic, conceptual level. It's another "me too" MMO that appears to be mixing Guild Wars with TBC-era WoW to make the game that isn't remotely close to what anyone who's clamored for a multiplayer Elder Scrolls for the past ten years has asked for. You're only excited about it because you're wanting DAoC Done Right™ without the first damn being given about what franchise has to be shoehorned around that concept. If not for Firor, you probably wouldn't even be in this thread.

Hell, I can virtually guarantee you that the old "three faction" magic bullet is going to be an abject failure from the get-go when you have race selection limited by faction when one of the three factions has both Nords and Dunmer, two of the most popular races in the entire franchise because of the high-profile games centered around their homelands and cultures. Not to mention another faction has the Altmer and Bosmer, which are two of the most reviled races in the series, and that was before Skyrim basically turned the Altmer into a nation of fascist warmongers.

It'll probably look more like a two-faction game by the time it's said and done.

[Ingmar]

The whole '3 faction magic bullet' thing is bullshit anyway.

[HaemishM]

I think maybe you should stop playing MMOs if they are making you this angry.

I actually have, thank you very much. The last MMO I paid for and played regularly was Lord of the Rings Online. I've played EQ2 and AOC since they went F2P, and I knew almost 2 years ago that SWTOR was never going to be worth a damn and my 30 minutes with the free trial only confirmed it. I still have hope that future MMO's won't suck - but outside of GW2, I don't see anything even being worth my time. This one really isn't.

As for Matt Firor, he worked on EQ1 and then DAoC, right? And as you say, he wasn't a huge part of DAoC's success. So why do you keep throwing his name around? He has no real resume to speak of.

I'm not freaking out, I'm saying that the list of features detailing what the game will be like sounds horribly, terribly generic, and all too similar to WoW with the only hook or differentiator being a setting whose previous games have been the exact opposite of what this game seems to be promising.

[Simond]

Most of us poured our last bit of "hope" into SWTOR

Some of us didn't.

(And then we got yelled at by the hivemind)

[UnSub]

Besides, the reaction to TESO are likely to follow the f13.net cycle:

1) Hear about it, scoff at its potential to suceed
2) Hear more about it, get slightly excited about some of the features
3) Get into beta, think that if the devs can do the right thing they might deliver
4) Pre-launch, divide into the "it sucks" and "it's awesome" camps
5) Launch, and enter the Bat Country
6) Two weeks post-launch, the honeymoon is over, only the advocates remain

[Typhon]

2.1) be a true visionary and realize that the game isn't going to be all that

7) cry about how the game ruined your innocence and you'll never fall in love again
7.1) crow about 'how you knew but no one would listen', call yourself Cassandra, start cross-dressing


...


ok, it kind of went off the rails at the Cassandra part, but up till then it was accurate

[LC]

Besides, the reaction to TESO are likely to follow the f13.net cycle:

1) Hear about it, scoff at its potential to suceed
2) Hear more about it, get slightly excited about some of the features
3) Get into beta, think that if the devs can do the right thing they might deliver
4) Pre-launch, divide into the "it sucks" and "it's awesome" camps
5) Launch, and enter the Bat Country
6) Two weeks post-launch, the honeymoon is over, only the advocates remain

I'm usually very lonely in that camp, at least until stage 6 begins. Until then you are just a troll because you aren't on the bandwagon with everyone else.

[Fabricated]

Hey, I still think SWTOR is fun...as a leveling experience.

[LC]

Mediocre compared to what? Rift is pretty much the best mmo currently live.

So good that it's subforum sits in the graveyard with very little activity since last year? RIFT suffers from the same problems as TESO.