Dragon Age

[Paelos]

I think ME2-style combat in a mostly-melee game would be awful. Think Morrowind/Oblivion. Yuck.

See, to me that's an improvement over sitting around waiting on turns, clicking buttons, or queuing up shit. Now granted, Morrowind could make you fly into fits of apopletic rage due to the ridiculous amounts of misses, but Oblivion scaled that back to a reasonable degree.

[Sky]

Soo....don't play Dragon Age 2 and wait for Elder Scrolls V or whatever they're on now? 

[Ingmar]

I think ME2-style combat in a mostly-melee game would be awful. Think Morrowind/Oblivion. Yuck.

See, to me that's an improvement over sitting around waiting on turns, clicking buttons, or queuing up shit. Now granted, Morrowind could make you fly into fits of apopletic rage due to the ridiculous amounts of misses, but Oblivion scaled that back to a reasonable degree.

For me it was still a boring exercise in click, swing, whether or not I was hitting or missing.

I think we're better off with actual variety anyway - some people like shitty Oblivion or Witcher combat, and I do not especially begrudge them this preference, until they come in and want to take away my BG-style combat. To me you're venturing close to the "games should never use isometric view because its old" guy here. As long as there are still multiple companies making western RPGs there is room for all manner of combat mechanics to exist side by side.

[Paelos]

You made a statement that a type of combat was awful. I countered that I consider your other form of combat awful. It has nothing to do with age, considering Morrowind was released in 2002 and Baldur's Gate was released 4 years prior. I didn't care for the stop and go aspects of it in Dragon Age, so I am fine with them shifting away from it.

Do I think it should be striken from all gaming? No, that's ridiculous. Lots of people enjoy that style of play. But you do have to understand that it will typically attract a subset of player who is familiar with it from other games. That developers might seem to be shifting from it isn't an accident. I don't believe newer gamers would walk into that style of combat and immediately enjoy it given the other options available to them in the gaming world, for better or for worse from your POV.

[Ingmar]

Well, except they're not shifting away from it, from what they've said. PC combat isn't changing.

[Paelos]

Well, except they're not shifting away from it, from what they've said. PC combat isn't changing.

And if that's the case, I can live with it provided they don't completely cock up the rest of the game with bells and whistles but no substence.

[Sky]

Justin Beber is sure more popular than Segovia. 

[tmp]

Whoa, looks the "this new look is the newest shit" visual redesign also includes the Qunari appearance.

I suppose it does make some sense, with the description of "horned giants" in the original game and the look of the trolls. Still... unexpected.

Also, bonus scare: "We have also changed the way elves and dwarves look for that matter" says senior artist Matt Goldman.

[Sjofn]

Yeah, the new qunari totally made me go  . I haven't been super excited about any of the art coming out, but the new qunari and the ridiculous "No seriously, most of them look like this we swear, we swears it on the precious" reasoning makes me depressed.

I don't even know wtf they COULD do to the dwarves to make them more, ahem, distinct.

[Zar]

Dragon Age 1 Qunari:Dragon Age 2 Qunari::Original Star Trek Klingons:Star Trek TNG Klingons ?

[tmp]

I don't even know wtf they COULD do to the dwarves to make them more, ahem, distinct.

I'm hoping it's just some sort of minor fix like giving them proportionally sized arms like they're shown in the concept art and posters, instead of the orangutan appendages they're sporting. I fear for the elves though, my 'canonical' Warden being city elf and all. One remark i saw in earlier article mentioned making them more like "plains-based Native Americans instead of bushmen" which was a in its own right.

[Sjofn]

One remark i saw in earlier article mentioned making them more like "plains-based Native Americans instead of bushmen" which was a in its own right.

  Whaaaaaaaaat.

As for the dwarf gorilla arms, yeah, it would be nice if they made the dwarves a little less awkward looking. Minor changes like that are fine, but now the qunari changes have me paranoid!

[Ingmar]

I don't hate the qunari thing in a vacuum, but it is a pretty jarring change to make now. I would hope they at least have some non-horned ones around as well, but I get the impression they're not going to.

[Lantyssa]

They don't even need to drink tainted blood to become ogres now.

[tmp]

As for the dwarf gorilla arms, yeah, it would be nice if they made the dwarves a little less awkward looking. Minor changes like that are fine, but now the qunari changes have me paranoid!

Someone on the official forums made a good point, there's concept art for that dwarf narrator guy that's been shown, and he looks pretty much unchanged in it (maybe has bit more trimmed beard) Well, has normal looking arms too but since all concept art had that i didn't consider it a sign of new things coming or anything like that.

[sickrubik]

I don't hate the qunari thing in a vacuum, but it is a pretty jarring change to make now. I would hope they at least have some non-horned ones around as well, but I get the impression they're not going to.

From the GI article:

“Not all qunari have horns,” says Dragon Age lead writer David Gaider. “Some are born without them, but it has never been considered a defect. Instead the mark is considered special, indicating one who is clearly meant for a special role in their society—as a Ben-Hassrath who enforces religious law or as an envoy to other races. It is also not uncommon for qunari who abandon their beliefs to remove their own horns, for reasons not yet clear.”

I have a feeling maybe that's a SPECIFIC Qunari, but from that quote, I don't see why we should assume they're all going to have horns. I'll reserve judgement until we know further, and hey, maybe there IS some connection to ogres!

[Paelos]

Different for the sake of different. 

[Sjofn]

I don't hate the qunari thing in a vacuum, but it is a pretty jarring change to make now. I would hope they at least have some non-horned ones around as well, but I get the impression they're not going to.

From the GI article:

“Not all qunari have horns,” says Dragon Age lead writer David Gaider. “Some are born without them, but it has never been considered a defect. Instead the mark is considered special, indicating one who is clearly meant for a special role in their society—as a Ben-Hassrath who enforces religious law or as an envoy to other races. It is also not uncommon for qunari who abandon their beliefs to remove their own horns, for reasons not yet clear.”

I have a feeling maybe that's a SPECIFIC Qunari, but from that quote, I don't see why we should assume they're all going to have horns. I'll reserve judgement until we know further, and hey, maybe there IS some connection to ogres!

I believe in the codex it spells out that ogres come from qunari as their base (broodmothers blop out monsters based on their former race, I believe?).

Here are some of my issues with the THEY GOTS HORNS retcon. a) Sten is absolutely not the only qunari we see in DA:O, we see plenty of them and not a one has horns b) those are some big ass horns, even if they DO get cut off (something I find reasonable for the Tal-Vashoth to do, actually) they wouldn't magically look like they never had horns at all and c) we're assuming they'll all have horns because Mr. Gaider up there says NOT having them is special. I have a feeling it's "special" because it is "rare." So it goes back to b) for me, why do none of the many qunari we ran across look like they ever had horns.

I mostly just object to fixing something that wasn't broken. I didn't like the art for Dragon Age: X-TREEEEEEME to start with, this just pushes me further into the "blech, the art is terrible" camp.

Still, I liked that one mage robe! And the female body shape isn't quite as weird looking as it is in DA:O. So that's something, rite?

[Fabricated]

I thought DA:O's combat was fine myself. The only character you need to micromanage really is whoever your caster is if you brought one since even with a good tactic setup the AI just doesn't cast worth a shit. Other than that if you needed to micro everyone you pretty much suck at the game.

[Bunk]

I believe in the codex it spells out that ogres come from qunari as their base (broodmothers blop out monsters based on their former race, I believe?).

Here are some of my issues with the THEY GOTS HORNS retcon. a) Sten is absolutely not the only qunari we see in DA:O, we see plenty of them and not a one has horns b) those are some big ass horns, even if they DO get cut off (something I find reasonable for the Tal-Vashoth to do, actually) they wouldn't magically look like they never had horns at all and c) we're assuming they'll all have horns because Mr. Gaider up there says NOT having them is special. I have a feeling it's "special" because it is "rare." So it goes back to b) for me, why do none of the many qunari we ran across look like they ever had horns.

I mostly just object to fixing something that wasn't broken. I didn't like the art for Dragon Age: X-TREEEEEEME to start with, this just pushes me further into the "blech, the art is terrible" camp.

Still, I liked that one mage robe! And the female body shape isn't quite as weird looking as it is in DA:O. So that's something, rite?

The thing is, I'm playing through again right now, and almost eveery Quanri I fight is wearing a helmet, so there for, you can't see the horns.

That somehow magically fit under the um, hemet. Yea.

I would not mind seeing a change to the elven look though. Something just never looked right. They all stand with a posture like they are bodybuilders on a California beach. The last thing I think of when I look at a DA elf is lithe or agile. I just see short.

[tmp]

So it goes back to b) for me, why do none of the many qunari we ran across look like they ever had horns.

I think it falls under "It is also not uncommon for qunari who abandon their beliefs to remove their own horns, for reasons not yet clear.” -- all the other Qunari you meet are mercenaries from that what-its-called group who choose to no longer follow the Qunari belief system. Obviously lack of any visual cue they had horns which got sawed off is somewhat meh but.... meh.

Still, I liked that one mage robe! And the female body shape isn't quite as weird looking as it is in DA:O. So that's something, rite?

Not only females got their own skeleton and associated normal-looking body, they even get separate walk animations and whatnot. Madness

[Sjofn]

I should clearly put Sten in nothing but thane and barbarian helmets during my next playthrough to get used to it. 

I mean ultimately so long as the writing and voice acting are good (and the combat is the same for the PC, I liked DA:O's combat, nyah) I won't care toooooo much about the art (unless it manages to get even assier somehow). It still makes me go rabble rabble though.

[tmp]

So there's new BioWare podcast out, and it has their art director Matt Goldman speaking. It also features sneak peek at concept art of redesigned elves, redesigned dwarves and qunari females, amongst other things

[caladein]

Too bad my character can only be two of those things (well, and the whole "concept art" thing).

[Sjofn]

The thing is, I'm playing through again right now, and almost eveery Quanri I fight is wearing a helmet, so there for, you can't see the horns.

That somehow magically fit under the um, hemet. Yea.

I just finished my mumbemumbleth playthrough and most of the mercs I fought weren't wearing helmets. Most of them even had Sten's hairstyle.   (It's not really a big deal I'm just going to be annoyed my first playthrough of DA2 and then get over it I'm sure.)


Ugh, I see human and elf females apparently naturally have high heel feet. Like Barbie.

[tmp]

Ugh, I see human and elf females apparently naturally have high heel feet. Like Barbie.

They were probably just wearing them in whatever reference material was used as inspiration for these concepts

[Ingmar]

I'm also not really seeing a whole lot of variety in the females there body-wise honestly. Not like the males.

[Goreschach]

Dragon Age is a mature game in a mature setting for mature gamers, so everyone has to look fabulous.

[Sjofn]

I'm also not really seeing a whole lot of variety in the females there body-wise honestly. Not like the males.

Which, given the DIFFERENT STANDARDS OF BEAUTY subtitle for the picture is particularly hilarious. I guess they meant different standards of male beauty.

[Fordel]

I'm also not really seeing a whole lot of variety in the females there body-wise honestly. Not like the males.

Which, given the DIFFERENT STANDARDS OF BEAUTY subtitle for the picture is particularly hilarious. I guess they meant different standards of male beauty.

Maybe the Writers are working with the Artists this time through.

[Sophismata]

Agreed that DA:O's combat was a clusterfuck. In particular, the inability for anyone (except mages) to hit moving targets, the ineffectiveness of warrior and rogue skills compared to their toggles, and the effectiveness of kiting because the AI becomes fixated on a single target (combined with everyone's inability to hit a moving target).

Managing the combat for tough battles was more irritating than it was anything else. Also, the tactics system didn't work for anything, the event/target pairings were implemented in a way that mode them nearly useless.


...I am hoping they address all this in this sequel.

[rk47]

Agreed that DA:O's combat was a clusterfuck. In particular, the inability for anyone (except mages) to hit moving targets, the ineffectiveness of warrior and rogue skills compared to their toggles, and the effectiveness of kiting because the AI becomes fixated on a single target (combined with everyone's inability to hit a moving target).

Managing the combat for tough battles was more irritating than it was anything else. Also, the tactics system didn't work for anything, the event/target pairings were implemented in a way that mode them nearly useless.


...I am hoping they address all this in this sequel.

All the above will be fixed if they made it turn-based, not phase-based Cone of Cold ftw.

Basically, as melee, you need the AOE Attack/CC & Anti-CC to be effective at all. Which is why unstealthed rogues need to backstab or risk getting hammered quickly, warriors need taunt and if they do none of these, they can't hit jack at all. One trick pony. I played through as 2 Hander and was shocked by how broken Indomitable toggle is, coupled with 360 degree sweep plus taunt.

[Paelos]

I'm playing through a simple playthrough as an elf on easy to make it go fast. I'm basically banging out a few of the achievements I missed in the earlier shit and also doing some of those hidden codex side quests that you just never get around to. I do tend to focus on rogues because they seem to have the most interesting combat options of all the classes.

[Lantyssa]

I had my rogue's strength pumped and was wearing the dragon scale armor.  Basically a warrior with backstab, which worked nicely.

[Lakov_Sanite]

So DA2 is when they add blood elves and draenei?