Dragon Age

[tmp]

(Interrogative) Are you an Elcor possibly?

(tentative agreement) This is one franchise crossover i could see myself get behind...

edit: that reminds me, apparently new unannounced yet DLC they've also shown at the Comic Con thing includes a bronto as companion. srsly.

edit 2: oh wait, there's some news about it out already. although meh, it sounded better without these details.

[Typhon]

I don't care if there are 10 options, that's still ridiculous to actually put the intent next to the text, unless it's the same text with different intonations to dictate the dialogue flow. It reinforces my earlier point of not even bothering with text at all.

Just as counter point to that, i really can't tell if this is supposed to be green, or if you're raging for real.

Respond:

1 - Badass
2 - Neutral
3 - Goody-Gooderson

Stop your fence-sitting, are you a 1, 2, or 3?!

[tmp]

Give the man some time; it's not that easy to guess whether the "goody two-shoes" option is actually "you're right" or "you're wrong but i mean it in the nicest way possible".

Incidentally, just intent and no actual text was good enough for Tex Murphy and that was oh shit 15 years ago already. It's all in the writer's wrist.

[Lakov_Sanite]

<3. Shoot Monkey>

[FatuousTwat]

Give the man some time; it's not that easy to guess whether the "goody two-shoes" option is actually "you're right" or "you're wrong but i mean it in the nicest way possible".

Incidentally, just intent and no actual text was good enough for Tex Murphy and that was oh shit 15 years ago already. It's all in the writer's wrist.

That is the problem though. It works well with comedy type games, where even if you fuck up, something hilarious will happen ala Tex Murphy, but this is supposed to be a srsbsns game, isn't it?

Plus, the writing in the Tex Murphy series was excellent, I'm guessing for Dragon Effect 2, not so much.

[Paelos]

<3. Shoot Monkey>

HEY! 

Anyway, I don't think that making answers glaringly obvious is a good idea, in a nutshell. It removes the little bit of gaming you do in actual conversations, and makes everything very simple and rote.

[Fabricated]

Wow, it's like they're literally removing everything interesting about the first game. You could actually be a bit nuanced in how you deal with companions and conversations, but I guess It's just douche, douche or douche now.

[tmp]

That is the problem though. It works well with comedy type games, where even if you fuck up, something hilarious will happen ala Tex Murphy, but this is supposed to be a srsbsns game, isn't it?

Plus, the writing in the Tex Murphy series was excellent, I'm guessing for Dragon Effect 2, not so much.

That's a fair point, Tex Murphy was just the right character to get away with that i suppose and quite a bit of humour could be in difference between what he was trying to say and what he'd actually say. DA has the same team of writers who did the previous game so i'm rather optimistic about it but they definitely have a harder task there. On the other hand, perhaps it's good then they're using summary + intent combination rather than just intent. 

[Sjofn]

Plus, the writing in the Tex Murphy series was excellent, I'm guessing for Dragon Effect 2, not so much.

OK, now hang on a damn minute. I can see the rage over spelling out if response 2 is the mean one or whatever (I am not really a fan of that myself) but let's not get all THE WRITING WILL BE TERRIBLE for no damn reason. I've heard a few complaints about Mass Effect 2, but "the writing was bad" was not one of them, so I extra object to sneeringly calling DA2 that in reference to one's out-the-ass guess as to the quality of the writing.

[Merusk]

DA:O was nothing stellar, this is just like 5 steps back. Everything about it is bland. From the art quality to the overall style to the background of the game itself. Maybe they'll slather enough bloom on it that we won't notice (like they did in many parts of the first one).

The lead character could not be more boring. Ritz McWarrior. Meh.

Just read in GI that this was a deliberate shift in the art.  They wanted the game to be "Visually Distinct" but felt that DA:O was too "generic fantasy" and could be confused with the LOTR games (as an example, not an actual comparison).   So instead you get.. this.   Primarily because of the first line of the blurb: " If you were playing the PC version, DA:O was a good-looking game. Unfortunately, the visuals didn't translate well to console."   Reading between the lines I got "DA:O made the consoles work too hard and got sluggish in fights, so we're dialing it back but calling it a new art direction."  

They're calling it "Hot Rodding" the art.  "So, 'hot rod the art' means we're going to strip it down to the essentials and come up with a more elemental, ownable art style."

On the upside, they say they're embracing the difference in playstyle between PC and Console.  While the PC version of DA:O let you pause and plan strategies, the consoles don't lend themselves to this.  So they're keeping the PC version combat the same while adding faster, 'more responsive' abilities ot the console.  An example given is that on console you push a button, something happens.  Hawke also apparently has a dash move in console that, from the way the article is written, isn't there in PC to keep it more action-oriented.  So while the content and story will be the same, the combat will be very different. Interesting if they can pull it off, but I won't hold my breath.

[eldaec]

Reading between the lines, I get....

'What the fuck do you think we are doing? This is EA now, the game is being written for consoles with a half assed port to PC, fuck you PC gamers, fuck you right in the ass.'

DA:O was the last Bioware game ever.

[Ingmar]

Oh FFS you people are topping yourselves yet again and this isn't even an MMO thread.

If you want to follow what is actually known about the game rather than speculating as usual that this is the end of all gaming as we know it, you could try this thread:

http://social.bioware.com/forum/Dragon-Age-2/Dragon-Age-2-General-Discussion/What-do-we-KNOW-so-far-Updated-725-3064634-1.html

NOTE: could be spoilery.

[Merusk]

All my stuff came from a Game Informer article. You don't like it, blame Bioware not our jaded and diminishing single-player PC game fanclub.

[eldaec]

Which is more likely? My theory, or that EA have magically learnt how to manage individual studios and unlike every prior EA acquisition Bioware will retain its original culture and standards.

That said, I do think the moaning about mass effect style conversation is silly. In DA, like Kotor2, like Jade thingy, and like in most prior Bioware titles, your handcrafted main character is a faceless, androgynous, non-character. They needed to do something about that.

[Ingmar]

All my stuff came from a Game Informer article. You don't like it, blame Bioware not our jaded and diminishing single-player PC game fanclub.

Your post wasn't really what was making me (and the link I gave has the stuff you mentioned and more), it is stuff like "DA:O was the last Bioware game ever" and "literally removing everything interesting" and such that is wearing out my eye-rolling muscles. The "circling the drain" thread comes to mind.

Yes, the new art is pretty bad from what we've seen so far. The other stuff, though? The dialogue tree changing slightly and a different sort of storyline and framing for the game are not going to kill RPGs for all time, nor are they some sort of guarantee that this one is going to suck.

I suppose people complained that ME2 wasn't a clone of ME1 structurally, after complaining for years that Bioware games were "all the same" so perhaps this is just a no-win conversation in the end.

[tmp]

That said, I do think the moaning about mass effect style conversation is silly. In DA, like Kotor2, like Jade thingy, and like in most prior Bioware titles, your handcrafted main character is a faceless, androgynous, non-character. They needed to do something about that.

I resent the androgynous remark.

[Sky]

That said, I do think the moaning about mass effect style conversation is silly. In DA, like Kotor2, like Jade thingy, and like in most prior Bioware titles, your handcrafted main character is a faceless, androgynous, non-character. They needed to do something about that.

Until you want to play another character and suddenly your badass Jules Winnfield lookalike is sounding just like your blond/blue clean-cut boy scout that you played for a hundred hours.

[Lantyssa]

The alternative is your dude is mute and everyone else does the talking for you.  It never bothered me through a dozen play-throughs.

[Sky]

Imagination is magical. A white actor doing a VO for Jules Winnfield Shepard is not.

[Typhon]

For some reason I think I'm going to regret this out here but,...

shouldn't it be your game actions that dictate whether your character is a good guy/girl or bad guy/girl?  Then they could layer dialog options on top of that to determine whether you are smart ass/polite.  Smartass/polite would determine who liked/disliked you in the game, and that would determine how many hoops you had to jump through (or not) to do the things you wanted to do.  Maybe it also determines the degree to which an NPC likes/hates you (you're very polite/polished, but you do bad, bad things which makes the polite good people hate! hate! hate! you).

Make the actions that you take be very obviously good/bad (or left/right, if you want a game with moral ambiguity), while the dialog choices could be "one of ten", with you picking whatever flavor you want without completely fucking over the type of character you were trying to play.

[Goreschach]

Imagination is magical.

Then stop whining and just imagine that your boyscout is Samuel Jackson saying whatever lines you like.

[FatuousTwat]

Plus, the writing in the Tex Murphy series was excellent, I'm guessing for Dragon Effect 2, not so much.

OK, now hang on a damn minute. I can see the rage over spelling out if response 2 is the mean one or whatever (I am not really a fan of that myself) but let's not get all THE WRITING WILL BE TERRIBLE for no damn reason. I've heard a few complaints about Mass Effect 2, but "the writing was bad" was not one of them, so I extra object to sneeringly calling DA2 that in reference to one's out-the-ass guess as to the quality of the writing.

The "Dragon Effect" comment was more directed at the combat changes which appear to by trying to make the game more in line with the Mass Effect style. And I was never a big fan of the DA:O writing.

[Paelos]

Making combat more like mass effect would be very awesome. Let's face it, the combat was the weakest point of Dragon Age, unless you loved fucking around with tactical AI menus, or micromanaging the shit out of everyone while pausing endlessly.

[tmp]

On the subject of writing and choices, an article/interview at GI, regarding the "Morality and Dragon Age".

short version: none of the morality bar nonsense, they seem to intend to keep it similar to the DAO.

[Tebonas]

Making combat more like mass effect would be very awesome. Let's face it, the combat was the weakest point of Dragon Age, unless you loved fucking around with tactical AI menus, or micromanaging the shit out of everyone while pausing endlessly.

Thats called turn based RPG combat and I happen to love the shit out of it. Different strokes I guess.

[Margalis]

Just read in GI that this was a deliberate shift in the art.  They wanted the game to be "Visually Distinct" but felt that DA:O was too "generic fantasy" and could be confused with the LOTR games (as an example, not an actual comparison). 

But the new stuff looks totally like generic fantasy and no more visually distinct than the first game. I don't even see much change in visual style.

[eldaec]

Just read in GI that this was a deliberate shift in the art.  They wanted the game to be "Visually Distinct" but felt that DA:O was too "generic fantasy" and could be confused with the LOTR games (as an example, not an actual comparison). 

But the new stuff looks totally like generic fantasy and no more visually distinct than the first game. I don't even see much change in visual style.

You must have missed the memo, ever since WoW, reducing your poly count and making weapons larger is called "giving the game a unique visual style".

[Lakov_Sanite]

Making combat more like mass effect would be very awesome. Let's face it, the combat was the weakest point of Dragon Age, unless you loved fucking around with tactical AI menus, or micromanaging the shit out of everyone while pausing endlessly.

Thats called turn based RPG combat and I happen to love the shit out of it. Different strokes I guess.

 

No see, if it was turn based it would have been great but unfortunately it wasn't. you had to constantly manually pause every two seconds and hope and enemy didn't get two attacks in the time you could do one, or ensure every single character in your party had an ability on cooldown.

Combat in DA was an absolute clusterfuck.

[Tebonas]

Isn't the new system even further away from turn based, though?

But you are right, its what I am resigned these days to accept as "as closed to turn based the twitch loving jackass developers will go these days"

[Sky]

But you are right, its what I am resigned these days to accept as "as closed to turn based the twitch loving jackass developers will go these days"

Quoted for sadness.

It's like game developers want to help me quit gaming. Maybe Kael will announce an RTS FFH3!

[Bunk]

I find it kind of funny how much people are jumping on the art style, considering the art in Origins wasn't exactly breath taking.

Bioware went and made several great cinematic trailers for Origins, and then made the actual in-game characters look nothing like trailer. Mods to redesign the characters to look more like the trailers are probably the most plentiful mods out there. The one I'm currently using, the author actually went through and redsigned just about every NPC in the game.


As to shifting to a ME2 style, voiced over main character, I'm all for it. The only issue I have with that is the tendancy to get attached to one of the voice actors over the other.

Commander Sheppard is a chick, damnit.

[tmp]

Bioware went and made several great cinematic trailers for Origins, and then made the actual in-game characters look nothing like trailer.

These were outsourced to Blur if i recall right. Though admittedly, Blur's designs tend to be closer to the game's concept art but don't know how much of that is a result of designs simply changing meantime.

edit: oh, looks they announced that new DLC now. Golems of Amgarrak


edit2: looks there's a trailer up for the DLC, too: http://www.mmorpg.com/showVideo.cfm/videoId/1800

either it's just me, or it shamelessly reuses ME2 music in the backgroud

[Ingmar]

I think ME2-style combat in a mostly-melee game would be awful. Think Morrowind/Oblivion. Yuck.

[Sky]

I think ME2-style combat in a mostly-melee game would be awful. Think Morrowind/Oblivion. Yuck.

And you didn't even have a party in the Elder Scrolls. We need MORE Baldur's Gate, not less. Mass Effect is a great series, leave it over there and run Dragon Age as the spiritual continuation of Baldur's Gate, AS THOR INTENDED.

[Engels]

Making combat more like mass effect would be very awesome. Let's face it, the combat was the weakest point of Dragon Age, unless you loved fucking around with tactical AI menus, or micromanaging the shit out of everyone while pausing endlessly.

Thats called turn based RPG combat and I happen to love the shit out of it. Different strokes I guess.

 

No see, if it was turn based it would have been great but unfortunately it wasn't. you had to constantly manually pause every two seconds and hope and enemy didn't get two attacks in the time you could do one, or ensure every single character in your party had an ability on cooldown.

Combat in DA was an absolute clusterfuck.

Ya, I'm not so sure. I personally was ok with it, but the GF loved it. She's replayed that game 6 ways from Sunday because she loves the tactical combat mechanics so much. She -adored- having to micromanage each combat move to perform the most efficient fight possible. Bored me to tears after the 2nd playthrough, but she loved it.

She would have also NOT liked a turn based system.

So again, I really think its a different strokes thing.