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Author Topic: Carbine Studios' "Wildstar"  (Read 979255 times)
Evildrider
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Reply #350 on: April 22, 2013, 04:04:12 PM

Just learn to see red and green, you newb.

Lantyssa
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Reply #351 on: April 22, 2013, 04:09:24 PM

Why is there a silhouette of a fly fisher posted?

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
luckton
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Reply #352 on: April 22, 2013, 04:18:17 PM

ZAM interview on Wildstar's graphic engine, "Engine"

http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=32245

Quote
When building an MMO, what comes first – the client or the server?

In my opinion, it better be both. But in our case we had a simple terrain and model renderer first (about a month or two into development); a couple months later we had a basic server that let us run around and see each other (needless to say this was when we received our first cheater). We then started layering in all of our complexities. At Carbine features are always added to both the client and the servers at the same time, usually by the same programmer. Fun fact: we still maintain our standalone server-less Client; our artists use it to preview their art without having to connect to a server.

Quote
How do you balance what to perform server-side versus client-side?

The general rule at Carbine is that we treat your client as a dumb terminal that is trying to send us malicious data at all times. That means that basically everything has to pass through the server for validation at some point.

At the same time, we have to assume you have tons of latency. I’d really love it if the world had a network infrastructure that could guarantee <10ms pings from any two points on the globe, but thanks to the laws of physics that’s just not gonna happen. We generally assume your client has at least 300ms of lag at all times. This means we have to simulate many things on your client while it is in transit to the server. Sometimes this might mean you play a pre-cast animation for a spell, only to get the message “Invalid Target” because your target is already dead. We’ve found it’s hardly noticeable vs. hitting the attack key a fraction of a second later, but I guess the end user will be the final judge of how well we hide the lag.

Lots of other bits of dev-speak in the article too.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Evildrider
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Reply #353 on: April 22, 2013, 04:51:45 PM

Why is there a silhouette of a fly fisher posted?

It's from an old Canadian TV show called The Red Green Show. 

Red Green clips.
UnSub
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Reply #354 on: April 22, 2013, 06:25:33 PM

I don't feel like I can ever trust NCSoft, certainly not post-CoH demise. They'll likely shit-can Wildstar in two years if it doesn't get a decent Korean playerbase, and fuck everyone else.
Yes because they definately fucked over everyone with guild wars 2.


I can't tell if sarcasm or not.

Isn't NCSoft just the publisher?

To my knowledge Carbine is 100% owned by NCsoft, as was Paragon Studios and ArenaNet is. So NCsoft gets to allocate resources as it sees fit.

Ginaz
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Reply #355 on: April 22, 2013, 06:37:30 PM

Why is there a silhouette of a fly fisher posted?

It's from an old Canadian TV show called The Red Green Show.  

Red Green clips.


That hat he's wearing is the one we got issued to wear in the field up until around 2000.  I'm glad the army went with the tilley hat version we have now.  That old one looked stupid as hell and I hated wearing it. swamp poop

And remember, if women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy. awesome, for real
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 06:39:28 PM by Ginaz »
Venkman
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Reply #356 on: April 22, 2013, 07:14:46 PM

ZAM interview on Wildstar's graphic engine, "Engine"

http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=32245

I really like the way these guys present themselves. Seems like the charm of the game really does derive from the people building it, rather than some faux affectation.

Or their media training group is just that freakin' good  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
01101010
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You call it an accident. I call it justice.


Reply #357 on: April 22, 2013, 07:27:01 PM

Why do I continually click these links?!? Jeezus Christ now this is on my radar.  Ohhhhh, I see.

Does any one know where the love of God goes...When the waves turn the minutes to hours? -G. Lightfoot
Lantyssa
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Reply #358 on: April 23, 2013, 08:10:36 AM

Why is there a silhouette of a fly fisher posted?

It's from an old Canadian TV show called The Red Green Show. 
That was a red-green colorblind joke.  'Cause they wouldn't be able to see Red Green...

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
luckton
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Reply #359 on: April 24, 2013, 12:42:43 PM

PvP Article

http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=32258

Tidbits:
- Jen Gordy, who started at the bottom at Mythic with DAoC, worked her way up, crossed over to LotRO, helped wrangle Monster Play and various systems, is heading up PvP for Wildstar
- PvP is taking a back seat to PvE, with the exception of Arenas and Warplots/Battlegrounds.  Arenas will be a focus in order to analyze class X vs. class Y stuff on the small scale in order to better implement stuff/changes on the larger.
- Web 2.0 is still a thing
- Two unique PvP stats.  One for amplifying damage, and the other to mitigate.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Sjofn
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Reply #360 on: April 24, 2013, 01:14:11 PM

Fucking PvP stats. I think that is a concept I would really prefer die forever.

God Save the Horn Players
Zetor
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Reply #361 on: April 24, 2013, 01:17:07 PM

Or gear-based PVP in DIKUs, period. Then again, Rift tried removing that and the players cried bloody murder (progression! shineys! getting beaten up for weeks so that I can get epix and start beating up on scrubs myself!). Oh well.

Sjofn
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Reply #362 on: April 24, 2013, 01:20:54 PM

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I prefer an even(ish) playing field for sure, but I have mostly made peace with the concept that most players are derps and want a gear progression in PvP (mostly so they can stomp newbs). But PvP-specific stats get right up my nose still, even though the reasoning behind it is nearly the same ("I don't want some scrub taking some different progression path gear-wise to escape their righteous stomping!").

God Save the Horn Players
Hoax
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Reply #363 on: April 24, 2013, 01:40:00 PM

Wot? PvP stats allow exactly that. You can make gear that is mediocre in pve be the best or close to it pvp gear in the game and you can award it for pvp'ing or make it free for everyone to access.

PvP stats could be a simple tool to remove gear-based PvP but no game ever seems to implement things that way.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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Nebu
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Reply #364 on: April 24, 2013, 01:41:40 PM

I loathe all manner of gear progression (PvP and PvE).  I don't want to whack a mole to get a pair of pants that will help me whack a bigger mole.  Give me a robust crafting system, access to vanity items, and more skill choices please.  

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Lucas
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Reply #365 on: April 24, 2013, 03:00:30 PM

more power to whoever will PvP in battleground/arenas. For me, the only remotely interesting PvP in any MMO is the world one, with random organized expeditions to the other faction territories or random PvP encounters while you travel in a contested area.

" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
luckton
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Reply #366 on: April 24, 2013, 03:09:10 PM

. For me, the only remotely interesting PvP in any MMO is the world one, with random organized expeditions to the other faction territories or random PvP encounters while you travel in a contested area.

No one's saying they're not going to have the world one.  They're just not going to go out of their way pre-launch to make it the next best thing since sliced bread. 

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Sjofn
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Reply #367 on: April 24, 2013, 03:27:51 PM

Wot? PvP stats allow exactly that. You can make gear that is mediocre in pve be the best or close to it pvp gear in the game and you can award it for pvp'ing or make it free for everyone to access.

PvP stats could be a simple tool to remove gear-based PvP but no game ever seems to implement things that way.

That is never how PvP stats work though. It's just a way to artificially sort people through gear. God forbid someone gear up running dungeons, get bored with that, and switch to PvP and not have to build a second suit! Or someone PvP a bunch and be able to use that gear they've earned in PvE! And the world would fucking end if the geared people can't smear the new people across the battlefield and tell themselves they're simply more "skilled."

And they never, ever, ever hand out PvP-stated gear for free. If they do (like in SWTOR), it's behind the "real" PvP gear and only makes you a slightly bigger speed bump.

I'm okay with a rough baseline that everyone should be at to have a fighting chance, but I am sick of gear progression and pointless, false gear divides fucking up PvP.

God Save the Horn Players
Phred
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Reply #368 on: April 24, 2013, 04:03:21 PM

Wot? PvP stats allow exactly that. You can make gear that is mediocre in pve be the best or close to it pvp gear in the game and you can award it for pvp'ing or make it free for everyone to access.

PvP stats could be a simple tool to remove gear-based PvP but no game ever seems to implement things that way.

That is never how PvP stats work though. It's just a way to artificially sort people through gear. God forbid someone gear up running dungeons, get bored with that, and switch to PvP and not have to build a second suit! Or someone PvP a bunch and be able to use that gear they've earned in PvE! And the world would fucking end if the geared people can't smear the new people across the battlefield and tell themselves they're simply more "skilled."

And they never, ever, ever hand out PvP-stated gear for free. If they do (like in SWTOR), it's behind the "real" PvP gear and only makes you a slightly bigger speed bump.

I'm okay with a rough baseline that everyone should be at to have a fighting chance, but I am sick of gear progression and pointless, false gear divides fucking up PvP.
Ya it's too bad swtor doesn't have the balls to bolster everyone up past the best gear you can get and leave it like that. Too even a playing field for the hard core though I suppose.
Malakili
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Reply #369 on: April 24, 2013, 04:13:48 PM


Ya it's too bad swtor doesn't have the balls to bolster everyone up past the best gear you can get and leave it like that. Too even a playing field for the hard core though I suppose.


It's really odd to me to be honest, the hardcore PvPers in any other genre loathe imbalances in stuff like this.  Is it just that the (hardcore) RPG PvP crowd basically consists of the people who couldn't hack it in the other competitive PvP games and use their ability to sink more time to dominate in a gear focused game?  That sounds really condescending, but it really seems that way sometimes.
HaemishM
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Reply #370 on: April 24, 2013, 04:16:12 PM

It could be that most of the hardcore PVPers in MMOG's are complete and utter cunts.

DayDream
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Reply #371 on: April 24, 2013, 04:27:49 PM

I think part of the driver for PvP gear is that a lot of people, based purely on skill, are forever doomed to be fodder.  When i look at most any pub FPS, the top ~20% of the scoreboard usually has like 50% of the kills.  The next 15% usually has about a 1:1 KD ratio, and then it's quickly down hill from there.  That's in a game where roughly equal "gear" is assumed.

So, I think PvP gear can counteract that somewhat, though VERY unintuitively.  Joe Scrublord might never understand what all of his buttons do, but if he puts in the time and gets enough PvP gear, he can brute force his way through an ungeared opponent.  Jill U. Raidqueen is always gunna shit on the scrubs, and PvP gear is only gunna change how long she has to heal afterward.  At least, i think that's the goal.  

Essentially, PvP gear stratifies players skill more.  It does so by allowing players to leverage time invested vs player skill.  Hopefully, it does so in the middle to bottom end of the spectrum, without pushing the top end too far out.  Though, that may be wishful thinking.  Personally, i dislike the idea of any sort of gear progression in PvP games in general, and I think it ends up with generally unhealthy stratification.  That earlier 15% with the 1:1 KD ratio, they get to go apeshit.


Just for kicks, I think if you had some class design to support the above idea, PvP gear with built in tradeoffs might actually be healthy for a game.  Say some of your abilities are more useful in the hands of a higher skilled player, and generally useless for scrubs, then PvP gear could lessen the power of the high skill ability in return for buffing other stuff.  Great players might end up using a couple pieces of PvP gear mixed in with the rest, while poor players might pile on the PvP gear.
Fordel
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Reply #372 on: April 24, 2013, 04:36:45 PM

No, it's not meant for any of that. It's just a grindy carrot to theoretically keep people along.


Any idea of pvp gear somehow balancing out the skill levels falls apart once you realize the top players in terms of actual player skill will also end up with the top end gear and it only widens the gap in the end.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Dark_MadMax
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Reply #373 on: April 24, 2013, 05:04:51 PM


It's really odd to me to be honest, the hardcore PvPers in any other genre loathe imbalances in stuff like this.  Is it just that the (hardcore) RPG PvP crowd basically consists of the people who couldn't hack it in the other competitive PvP games and use their ability to sink more time to dominate in a gear focused game?  That sounds really condescending, but it really seems that way sometimes.

Pvpers in diku themparks and not "hardcore". I would even venture to say they not pvpers at all - they are pve'rs grinding another kind of gear progression. The only legit pvp in any MMO is WoW arena, and the main reason for it is the sheer amount of people in competitive rank based ladder.  The ladder is why people are there not the "ubermathafuck11thseason gladiator" gear

And a lot of people migrated away to f2p games with ladders. Like  LoL. The warfare based pvp guilds are playing GW2 www and/or waiting for archeage etc. No pvpers plays themepark diku MMOs as "pvp game"
« Last Edit: April 24, 2013, 05:06:49 PM by Dark_MadMax »
Sjofn
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Reply #374 on: April 24, 2013, 06:02:41 PM

The only legit pvp in any MMO is WoW arena, and the main reason for it is the sheer amount of people in competitive rank based ladder.

Someone never played Puzzle Pirates!

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Venkman
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Reply #375 on: April 24, 2013, 06:21:19 PM

Pvpers in diku themparks and not "hardcore". I would even venture to say they not pvpers at all - they are pve'rs grinding another kind of gear progression. The only legit pvp in any MMO is WoW arena, and the main reason for it is the sheer amount of people in competitive rank based ladder.  

I'm no dedicated MMO PvPer. I find it fun, but feel true PvP is just a byproduct of an open world where PvP can happen because people are around, not the reason the people are there.

Grinds are accepted by certain (many) MMO players has an acceptable way to efficiently level/gear up. WoW Arena and BGs (like many PvP themeparks) just provide a structure in which you're grinding in competitive matches instead of PvE ones.

So what's the difference between WoW Arena and WoW BG with regards to grinding progression?
Threash
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Reply #376 on: April 24, 2013, 07:04:07 PM

more power to whoever will PvP in battleground/arenas. For me, the only remotely interesting PvP in any MMO is the world one, with random organized expeditions to the other faction territories or random PvP encounters while you travel in a contested area.

Cept now "world pvp" means "here is your world pvp specific zone, have at it".

I am the .00000001428%
Dark_MadMax
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Reply #377 on: April 26, 2013, 07:00:08 AM

I'm no dedicated MMO PvPer. I find it fun, but feel true PvP is just a byproduct of an open world where PvP can happen because people are around, not the reason the people are there.

Grinds are accepted by certain (many) MMO players has an acceptable way to efficiently level/gear up. WoW Arena and BGs (like many PvP themeparks) just provide a structure in which you're grinding in competitive matches instead of PvE ones.

So what's the difference between WoW Arena and WoW BG with regards to grinding progression?


If you mean what makes Arena pvp and BG grinds? - arena has rating and publicly visible ladders . This is the  main reason people keep playing it once they get trough novelty stage. WoW being most  popular MMO on the market makes for tons of epeen  if your rank is relatively high.  In arenas people play to win against similarly minded competition -the quintessential thing for pvp, not for purple gear or tokens.  GW2 was supposed to take over this market (or at least take a large share of it) but arena.net royally screwed the pooh there

DIKU themeparks keep throwing instanced BGs in their kitchen sink just for check mark ,  no one interested in them either. Wildstar will be no exception even if they do have ladders and arenas. Unless somehow it becomes magically more popular than wow (yeahhhh righhhht)



« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 07:04:27 AM by Dark_MadMax »
Ghambit
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Reply #378 on: April 26, 2013, 07:42:27 AM

I loathe all manner of gear progression (PvP and PvE).  I don't want to whack a mole to get a pair of pants that will help me whack a bigger mole.  Give me a robust crafting system, access to vanity items, and more skill choices please.  

Sensible.  So you prefer whack-a-mole, to ding a mat, to sew some pants?

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Nebu
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Reply #379 on: April 26, 2013, 10:30:02 AM

Sensible.  So you prefer whack-a-mole, to ding a mat, to sew some pants?

You're hilarious.   Thumbs up!
 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Phred
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Reply #380 on: April 26, 2013, 11:12:45 AM

It could be that most of the hardcore PVPers in MMOG's are lying cunts who have no clue what they want.
FTFY

Phred
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Reply #381 on: April 26, 2013, 11:49:48 AM

Check out the free weekend Steam offering Forge btw. Looks like an interesting blend between MMO pvp and a shooter.
I especially like the wall jumping.
Venkman
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Reply #382 on: April 26, 2013, 12:21:54 PM

If you mean what makes Arena pvp and BG grinds? - arena has rating and publicly visible ladders . This is the  main reason people keep playing it once they get trough novelty stage.

Ah ok that makes sense. And yea, very different than BG grind.
Draegan
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Reply #383 on: April 27, 2013, 01:57:09 PM

Check out the free weekend Steam offering Forge btw. Looks like an interesting blend between MMO pvp and a shooter.
I especially like the wall jumping.

Someone can message me on Steam for a free copy of this game.
luckton
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Reply #384 on: May 08, 2013, 01:12:39 PM

First beta stress test is coming up. 

http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/wildstar_wednesday_beta_stress_test.php

*crosses fingers*

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
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