f13.net

Today is an important day for LOTRO: we’ve announced that this fall, LOTRO will begin offering a Free-to-Play option! Players will be able to download the game and adventure in Middle-earth for free. With Free-to-Play comes the addition of the LOTRO Store, where players will have immediate in-game access to a wide variety of special items, account services, and convenience items.

Is there any word on if there will still be subscriptions?   What about the lifers?  

Hello!

Today we announced a couple of big changes for LOTRO, and I wanted to take a moment to talk about them. Last year my esteemed colleague and friend Jeffrey Steefel moved over to a new project at Turbine and I am now the Executive Producer for LOTRO!

As far as my background goes – I have been a producer in MMO development for 10 years. My career began in the industry working on the social world of There.com, where I designed and managed the implementation of There’s new player experience and commerce suite, including There’s 5000 product in-game catalog. I joined Turbine in 2005 and helped launch Dungeons & Dragons Online: Stormreach. I’d been leading the DDO development team for some time when we decided to transform the game with our hybrid business model, and after Dungeons & Dragons Online: Eberron Unlimited launched I joined the LOTRO team as Jeffrey segued onto his next project.

Given my background, it’s hardly surprising that I believe very strongly in the power of providing gamers with a choice in how they pay and play our games. By adding a free–to-play component and store offering we will open up LOTRO to millions of players who simply won’t play a game that requires a subscription fee. I’m sure many of you have lots of questions about this decision, and I want to say clearly that the decision to introduce a free-to-play option was based on the desire to take the game to a new level by bringing even more players into the world of Middle-earth. LOTRO is one of the most successful MMOs in the world and has been doing very well as a subscription-only game, but with the success we’ve seen with DDO it seemed clear that this move is going to be hugely beneficial for the LOTRO community.

For our LOTRO VIPs the game will not change, except there will be more players around to group with, and there will be the ability to use the new LOTRO Store, which is completely optional for all players and gives access to hundreds of convenience, cosmetic and consumable items! You’ll be able to check out the Store in the Beta Program, and I encourage any of you who are interested to click here to sign up for it! For more details, and to learn about the differences between VIPs, Premium players, and Free players, click here.

When we launch LOTRO Free-to-Play this fall, the change will bring with it more than just the transition to the hybrid business model. We’ve revamped the game’s starting areas, added the new region of Enedwaith, and will continue the journey of the Rangers south in Book 2 of our epic story.

As we go forward beyond this major update, we’re going to be giving our players the same great content and feature releases that you’ve come to expect from LOTRO. In late 2010 and into 2011, we’re going to be working on improvements to the Item Advancement / Legendary Items system, to Radiance, and to the monster play system. I believe this is going to be a very exciting time for LOTRO, and hope that you all continue to share your perspective on the game as it grows and changes as we continue our journey toward Mordor. Please sign-up for the Beta Program and let us know what you think about the way Book 2 is shaping up!

I look forward to seeing you in Middle-earth!

Kate Paiz

Executive Producer
The Lord of the Rings Online

Can you add more details to your "holy shit"?  I don't want to click that link at work.

As a lifetime subscriber to LOTRO, you will keep all of your membership privileges and are automatically upgraded to VIP status. You will receive 500 Free Turbine Points every month like the other VIPs, but you do not have to pay a monthly fee since you are a lifetime member. All you have to do is keep playing the game and visit the LOTRO Store to spend your free points and enjoy the wealth of new a la carte items and options to enhance your game experience.

Interesting they don't include their PvM thing in the free deal.

LOTRO has always had a fairly intelligent and mature community though. I'm a little concerned about how that will change once it's free to play.

LOTRO has been quite successful, I guess the DDO successes has made them think twice about pure sub plans.

I think I noted when Mirkwood was announced that the "Digital Expansion" idea sounded a hell of a lot like DDO's e-store modules. You ask me, that was them testing how the existing playerbase would react to the idea.

There won't be a server merge, and there won't be separate free-to-play only servers. All the servers will remain as they are, and the new population will pick from them just as you once did.

So as a founder, this pretty much means I lose 2 character slots, and not much else. It'll all hinge on how much shit in the Cash Shops costs, and how much it affects gameplay. But as I said, vague feeling of DOOOM!

As I said in the other thread, F2P suits the economy well.

The new capitalism model: slightly annoy your customers freeloaders into spending money to make you stop, thereby converting them into customers.

34. I bought Turbine Points in the DDO Store. Can I use those Turbine Points in LOTRO (and vice versa)?

      Turbine Points are not transferrable, so Turbine Points purchased in the DDO Store cannot be transferred to the LOTRO Store or vice versa.

Maybe they plan to sell Turbine Points which can be used to convert Turbine Points into Turbine Points  :why_so_serious:

DDO makes free players play on new servers. Quite sure old players/servers will be unmolested.

This is not correct. Anyone playing the US version of DDO can roll on any of the servers without spending any money. There are separate sub-based servers for European customers run by Codemasters but frankly since the US ones became free all of us Euros are rolling up our characters there, even those of us who want to pay subs.

No, it's Warner Brothers. :uhrr:

No, it's Warner Brothers. :uhrr:

I've spent a great deal of time thinking about MT, and I've reached definite conclusions. They're as applicable to LotRO as they would be for any other persistent multiplayer game.

YES:

Cosmetics and "administrative" fees.

* Unique cosmetic outfit items
* Unique mounts, provided they have the same stats as other mounts
* Unique house decorations
* Unique PC titles
* Early or permanent (i.e. rent-free) access to a house
* Extra housing decoration hooks
* Extra bank space, character or account-based
* Extra house storage chests
* Extra cosmetic outfit tabs
* Extra character slots
* Character rename
* Character appearance change - everything but race, because race gates class access
* Character respec (in principle; this isn't useful in LotRO)
* Server transfers
* Custom named, globally accessible chat channel noted on an in-game list (yes, this means someone would have to pay for /glff)
* Private Kinship housing neighborhood (only your kinnies or those you invite can enter and claim houses)
* Kinship forum hosted on the official forums

NO:

Anything that can, in some way, provide a statistical advantage in PvE or PvP combat. This includes:

* Armor
* Weapons
* Crafting resources, especially rares
* Legendary Items and their associated parts and pieces
* XP buffs
* Hope buffs
* Food
* Healing and power pots
* Disease, poison, bleed, and fear pots
* Resurrection pots
* Extra pack space
* Early access to level- or quest-gated areas
* In-game currency, because if you can buy that, you can effectively buy nearly everything else on this list through the AH

As you can see, my feeling is that Turbine already steers a dangerous course in the DDO store by selling healing potions, magic items, and enhanced XP. But DDO is a F2P game now - the rules are different for them. As a subscription game, I'd hold LotRO to a higher standard of ethics.

For the record, apparently everything can also be earned in game through play. How, why and how many balls you will have to loose is unknown at this time. Perhaps some DDO players can tell us what it was like there, as a baseline?

Saw the thread title and thought "The fuck?" Didn't see this coming. Hopefully this doesn't hurt LOTRO, though I won't say it was the pinnacle of MMO communities, it has its fair share of idiots.

F2P w/ Microtransactions is the future, Mr. Crotchety.  :why_so_serious:

F2P w/ Microtransactions is the future, Mr. Crotchety.  :why_so_serious:

Doesnt mean I have to like it. Also, we always say vote with your wallet. So I did.

I wouldnt mind if I could pay my monthly sub and get access to everything. But paying a sub and still having to pay MT makes me stabby.

What is a VIP? How will I become one?

      For a monthly fee, the VIP program offers the best value and the most options for players who like the convenience of having unlimited access to all game content and features. VIP players also receive 500 Turbine Points per month and exclusive benefits like priority access to servers, 5 character slots per server, a 20-slot wardrobe for cosmetic items, full customer service, and much more! You can upgrade to VIP at any time by visiting https://myaccount.turbine.com once LOTRO Free-to-Play is available. If you are already a subscriber, just maintain your active subscription to be automatically upgraded to VIP!

This isn't you?

That's just it, nobody has to pay anything.

If you buy any turbine points at all you get premium status, which offers a bunch of advantages.

Beyond that, none of the microtransaction stuff is required to play, although some of it is obviously very attractive, like inventory space, character slots, the auction house, the two new classes, XP potions, etc. You can do without, but if you enjoy the game you'll probably want to pay for some of their crap. That's why it's a strong offering-- unlike other freeplay games like allods online, it's possible to play indefinitely without paying them anything at all. But you won't.

They have the tech to make all those skirmish marks and stuff become just marks on your character sheet. Don't be surprised if it happens.

Turbine knows exactly where LOTRO was going-- into the toilet.

I can't say I have seen anything that backs this up. If you wanted the best experiences in MMO's you have had two options. Wow (loot rat race), or LOTRO (story immersion). Everything else is miles behind in terms of development, implementation, content, and polish.

It can't be that I'm just biased is it?

Yes, yes. I'm an elitist. I appreciate that my requests for help actually generate helpful advice, that nearly all chatter I see is legible, that the majority of the PCs I see aren't named Dethjestor and Mistertee, and that I so frequently run into characters tagged as roleplaying.

I think you're missing his point, it isn't the quality of the game in question. The population was fairly clearly going down. Not a big WAR type decline, but still.

As for the actual topic, meh. I'm a lifer so it doesn't really affect me at all. I'm not even concerned about the comminity, as I don't put the LotRO community up on a pedestal, they have plenty of dumb-asses. Just because people can sometimes spell there doesn't mean what they're spelling is something I want to read, especially how half of the chat I've seen consists of people patting themselves on the back for not playing WoW. Grant you, I have never been able to crack 30 in this goddamn game, so maybe it gets better at the higher levels, but man do people need to quit reassuring themselves they're not missing anything by playing LotRO instead of WoW. It's a lot of protesting too much.

My biggest concern right now is probably the effect on the community. LotRO is known for having a player base that skews a bit older and more balanced between men and women. (That's likely the effect of the IP -- Tolkien nuts are more likely to try the game and stick with it.) F2P games tend to attract 18-25 year-olds who have more time than money.

I forsee requests for help being met with "lern2play n00b" and more garbled txt msg spk in chat.

Yes, yes. I'm an elitist. I appreciate that my requests for help actually generate helpful advice, that nearly all chatter I see is legible, that the majority of the PCs I see aren't named Dethjestor and Mistertee, and that I so frequently run into characters tagged as roleplaying.

I can't say I have seen anything that backs this up. If you wanted the best experiences in MMO's you have had two options. Wow (loot rat race), or LOTRO (story immersion). Everything else is miles behind in terms of development, implementation, content, and polish.

It can't be that I'm just biased is it? No offence to Soln, but on the grand scale of things, the stuff hes talking about, is just nitpicks. most of it is in process of being addressed (revamps), some of it, just isn't the this game. I mean, end game? Uh... Wrong game.

Dunno. When your whole game becomes predicated on pushing players to the cap so they can begin to grind their LI's that's not a nitpick.   And there's zero evidence AFAIK they plan to change anything I said.  

In late 2010 and into 2011, we’re going to be working on improvements to the Item Advancement / Legendary Items system, to Radiance, and to the monster play system.

If you wanted the best experiences in MMO's you have had two options. Wow (loot rat race), or LOTRO (story immersion). Everything else is miles behind in terms of development, implementation, content, and polish.

:oh_i_see:

Nonsense. You don't HAVE to grind in WoW, either. You can ignore gear completely. The fact is that LOTRO's endgame consists of running instances for Rad gear. That's the next best gear. LIs are part and parcel of the same process. None of it is required but that is what the game mostly consists of at cap.

This isn't you?

Well, in DDO, even if your a subscriber you still need to purchase a lot of the MT stuff to do a lot of the content. I am worried they will do the same thing here.

Well, in DDO, even if your a subscriber you still need to purchase a lot of the MT stuff to do a lot of the content. I am worried they will do the same thing here.

So name somethings that VIP need to buy in DDO so we continue this discussion.

I don't know cause we haven't seen the store yet. But I bet it will be there.

Am I the only one who remembers LOTRO being spoken of as having garnered subscribers roughly on par with contemporary EQ1, followed by at least one of the higher-ups being shitcanned? The game was never that successful.

You are concerned about the LotRO Store because of track record with DDO Store.  What in the DDO Store has you concerned?  What in the store are VIPs forced into buying? 

I don't know cause we haven't seen the store yet.

Turbine Executive One: "I have an idea, we can sell them stuff to make more money."

Turbine Executive Two: "Nah, I think we're good".

 :awesome_for_real:

Anyway, I have my feelings on it, you guys have yours. Guess the only thing left to do is wait and see. But I will consider myself right if a subscriber ever needs or even really wants to spend money in the store.

2) Its not so much a single item that has me concerned, its the fact that in order to get the same gameplay in DDO you got as a subscriber before they went F2P-MT, even if you subscribe to DDO, you still need to purchase items from the store. For example, the rest stones in dungeons. You realistically cannot get through some dungeons in DDO without usuing the rest shrine, you have to buy them from the store now, even as a subscriber.

Anyway, I have my feelings on it, you guys have yours. Guess the only thing left to do is wait and see. But I will consider myself right if a subscriber ever needs or even really wants to spend money in the store.

You can buy "extra" shrines in the DDO Store.  There are hard missions that its handy to buy these extra shrines. But they were the same before DDO Store. The DDO Store just provided subscribers are option they didn't have before.
LOL.  We are going play that game. I will just declare myself right right now.

You can declare anything you want. But it wont make you any less wrong.  :wink:

I can refine my feelings on LOTRO going F2P-MT to this: If the game gives me a reason to spend more than my $15 a month sub fee, I am unhappy. Thats how I feel. I do not like it. For the type of gamer I am, and for what I enjoy doing in a MMO, this change amounts to them raising the price. I don't like that they are doing it, so I have canceled my subscription, and I have let them know in the exit interview how I feel.

I'm not saying its a horrible decision on the part of Turbine, hell, with the success of DDO F2P I think its a pretty smart move, but for me, I do not like it. And I will vote with my wallet.

I don't know how to be any more clear on the subject.

Rereading that Bloodworth quote makes me wonder what's EQ2's deal these days? I feel like it should be in the discussion somewhere, but maybe it's all but dead and I had no idea? I haven't tried it since the Play the Fey trial was new-ish (I totally made a fey monk, raar!). I had fun during the trial but something distracted me from actually signing up, I can't even remember what it was any more.

Best estimates I read were a peak of between 200k and 300k. It's pretty much been the second most successful MMO in the West for awhile now, release spikes for AOC, WAR and Aion not included.

I keep reading numbers like that, but honestly, I've never seen any indication of those kind of numbers in game. I like the game and all that, but I just never even saw EQ2 numbers on the actual servers, nevermind EQ1 or FFXI numbers.

Awww, you linked to Sir Bruce.  This one's cute.  Can we keep it? ;D

EQ2 is alive and well and probably the best game most people never gave a second chance.  It's really positioned somewhere halfway between WoW and LOTRO.  Its combat and adventuring leans a little more towards WoW, while its crafting and social options (housing, appearance, economy, etc) are better than LOTRO's and far better than WoW's.  I forget what Blood's excuse for dismissing it is, but it's laughably ignorant for someone who should know better.  If you're looking for a diku-style fantasy game where there are far more things to do than you have time for, solo, grouped, raid or PvP, then you should at least check it out.  It's not for everyone (nothing is) but it has a vast amount of very well-polished content that's actually fun to experience multiple times. 

Is the data discredited? A citation would be preferable to a troll.

Yup, thanks I spotted a similar thread.

Anyway, I have my feelings on it, you guys have yours. Guess the only thing left to do is wait and see. But I will consider myself right if a subscriber ever needs or even really wants to spend money in the store.

I forget what Blood's excuse for dismissing it is, but it's laughably ignorant for someone who should know better.

Everything else is miles behind in terms of development, implementation, content, and polish.

In addition to all the exciting VIP benefits you can receive 500 free Turbine Points to use in LOTRO Free-to-Play for each LOTRO anniversary (April 24) that has elapsed since you first joined LOTRO, up to a maximum of 1,500 Turbine Points.

Plus, as a LOTRO Lifetime Member, you are entitled to an exclusive offer of 1,000 additional Turbine Points as our way of saying thank you. These points will be credited to your account once LOTRO F2P is live.

With the removal of rest XP, you can be sure XP potions are going to be in the store.

But I do like your list.

Anyway, I have my feelings on it, you guys have yours. Guess the only thing left to do is wait and see. But I will consider myself right if a subscriber ever needs or even really wants to spend money in the store.

If this is anything like what happened to DDO, prepare for the general chat channels to be filled with more stupid than ever before. 

I think that lifetime subscribers should have their own server that is insulated from the brand of stupid you're about to witness when this goes live. 

"Subscribers" etc still get rested xp, automatically. Bot, of course xp potions will be in the store.

Monster play is the line item that strikes me most odd.

The only thing about EQ2 that I remember is that it looked like total shit and needed a computer that did not exist yet to run properly.

Wow wasn't a great game at release, but it got better quickly.  EQ2 also wasn't a great game at release, but it did get better (albeit slowly).   Both of those games are easily as good or better than lotro in many ways.  It's a matter of taste and which world you prefer to dabble in.  

As I’m sure many of you read this morning, Turbine has announced that The Lord of the Rings Online will be going Free to Play. The F2P re-launch of LOTRO is set for this Fall in both North America and Europe (Codemasters will run the European version), and a beta test phase is set to begin in a little over a week on June 16th. Naturally, many of you have tons of questions about the dramatic shift, and we got a chance to catch up with Turbine’s Executive Director of Communications Adam Mersky as well as LOTRO Executive Producer (formerly Senior Producer on DDO) Kate Paiz to get you some answers.

I asked Kate about what went into making this decision for LOTRO, and she responded that one major factor was the runaway success of the re-launch of Dungeons & Dragons Online, which resulted in “a significant uplift In player participation, in interested in the title, and in activity community participation.” Turbine looked at that and basically decided that it was really a no brainer for LOTRO given all the aforementioned benefits, and of course, this change results in making the game much more accessible to many more players.
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While there were a lot of obvious benefits in making the switch, the logistics of it didn’t involve a simple cut-and-paste job. The Lord of the Rings Online is an entirely different beast than Dungeons & Dragons Online, consisting of a more traditional MMO experience, and breaking that up into smaller pieces fitting a Free to Play model resulted in a few differences in execution. For example, LOTRO doesn’t make use of the same content model as DDO, instead it has a completely open world with your typical bread and butter quests, dungeons, and instances, and so in LOTRO players will have full unfettered access to the entire open world, but the limited access comes into play with certain quest givers. The entirety of Bree-land, Ered Luin, and the Shire will be fully accessible by F2P players, as will any of the main story content even beyond these regions, however,  quest givers featuring quests peripheral to the main storyline will require a purchasable unlock as players progress through the game’s later areas, starting around level 20-25, beginning with the Lone-lands. The locked quest givers will be denoted with a lock icon above their heads, and players can unlock them by simply talking to them and being given the option to purchase the content right then and there. It’s important to note that players won’t have to unlock an individual quest giver, though, as making a purchase unlocks all locked quest givers for that particular region. Free players won’t be hurting for things to do, however, as Kate estimates the entirely free content amounts to around 300 hours of gameplay.

Turbine learned a lot from DDO’s re-launch as well, and they’ll be carrying their experience over to LOTRO. Like DDO, the LOTRO Store will only offer items of convenience, no one will be “paying to win” when LOTRO re-launches as a F2P game.  Generally, the only time you will really see gear available in the LOTRO Store will be as “Starter Packs” which give new players a little bit of a leg up in the very early parts of the game.

Also like DDO, players who are current subscribers will not see much of a change in the way things are now, they’ll have access to all the content they have now, and enjoy some additional benefits such as shared storage, 20 cosmetic wardrobe slots, as well as a 500 Turbine Point stipend every month. Lifetime subscribers are just the same, they simply won’t have to pay for their continued VIP access.  Current subscribers have the added bonus of being able to earn their 500 Turbine points beginning now, giving them a little bit of stockpile when the game switches over in the Fall. Though, those of you who play both DDO and LOTRO might be disappointed to find out that Turbine Points purchased for the DDO Store will not be valid in the LOTRO Store and vice-versa, they are entirely separate.

Development of the game will continue generally as it has been now, with larger updates featuring a new region and perhaps a level cap bump, as well as smaller updates, however Kate emphasized that the change to the Free to Play model would enable Turbine to put out these smaller updates much faster than they used to. Looking ahead, Kate let us know that the team is interested in exploring Eisengard and continuing the Saruman storyline there.

Finally, we wanted to know what the recent acquisition of Turbine by Warner Bros. would mean for Turbine and their players, and Adam Mersky explained that they’ve been working with Warner Bros. on this deal for awhile now, and Warner Bros. has previously mentioned some of the strategic reasons they were interested in Turbine, such as leveraging tech made for Turbine’s  Free to Play business model. However, as Adam also points out, the decision made sense for Warner Bros. due to the success of Turbine’s games as well. More specifically, Adam explained that the “success of DDO is unquestioned, it’s changed everything as far as this business, the type of game, the way we do content now, it’s a total turn around success story that is continuing to grow.”  Turbine (and Warner Bros.) feel that what Turbine is doing is the future of online gaming, though Adam cautions this doesn’t necessarily mean Turbine’s specific model, but the idea of offering players additional options in how they access your game, and this puts Turbine (and now Warner) at the forefront.

MT: That's right, Dungeons & Dragons Online right now is about eight percent of the market, LOTRO  is number eight in the marketplace with five percent. Combined, thirteen percent of MMO gamers are playing Turbine games. That positions Warner Bros. right away in MMOs, and that's clearly a direction we're headed in the future.

Maybe it'll feel nicer if I'm not paying for it.

LOTRO does the same thing.

Unrelated:

That... concerns me a little bit. It's the kind of thing I'd probably have to see in action as to whether it will totally piss me off or not. It may not even affect my character.

That... concerns me a little bit. It's the kind of thing I'd probably have to see in action as to whether it will totally piss me off or not. It may not even affect my character.

Sadly, it won't.  Lotro has become like CoH for me.  It's a lovely world and a fun departure, but every time I go back, I stay for a shorter length.  Lotro is a beautifully crafted world, but just lacks the gaming "POP" and excitement that WoW has.  It's just there... in front of you providing no real excitement or incentive to explore. 

So after several days of reading and thinking, I'm thinking that:

• Lifers like me are going to walk in with a crapload of points.
• We're going to keep getting more each month.
• We won't have anything to spend them on, since we start with everything unlocked (including 20 cosmetic slots, a feature I would have cheerfully thrown $20-30 at).

So by the time Turbine puts out another expansion, we're going to have an obscene amount of unspent points, which we'll use to buy the expansion. Which means... Turbine will be making even less money off lifers than they were before.

Am I reading this wrong?

Or maybe the opposite, that there are so many lifers that their revenue stream has dried up a bit.

I'm surprised nobody's commented on the DDO as #5 MMO, LOTRO #8 stat. That surprises the fuck out of me.

EDIT: Oops, sorry. LOTRO is #8 with 5%, DDO we don't know what place but they have 8%

When did you play it, out of interest?

If you haven't played it since the revamp, EQ2 now isn't the same as what you played then.  Still not my bag, but it's not a bad game now.

Eisengard

See, I'm the opposite. I went back and checked out WoW after maybe four months away and it was awful. Not that any MMO's mechanics are setting the world on fire but coming back to two shot mobs, not read quest text,

So after several days of reading and thinking, I'm thinking that:

• Lifers like me are going to walk in with a crapload of points.
• We're going to keep getting more each month.
• We won't have anything to spend them on, since we start with everything unlocked (including 20 cosmetic slots, a feature I would have cheerfully thrown $20-30 at).

So by the time Turbine puts out another expansion, we're going to have an obscene amount of unspent points, which we'll use to buy the expansion. Which means... Turbine will be making even less money off lifers than they were before.
Am I reading this wrong?

And I never said others games were simply bad, eq2 is a fine game, but really, its lagged so far behind with its engine capabilities (stencil shadows finally don't suck all but 5 FPS out) that I stand by my assessment.

I said if you want the best mmo experiences, this includes not having to dick around with graphic settings to get a decent frame rate for 30 min

I was running cpu shadows three and a half years ago with a middling core 2 duo.

Also, nothing to spend your points on? After awhile, probably/possibly. It'll depend on how much and how you play.

Really? I was running cpu shadows three and a half years ago with a middling core 2 duo. It's engine still has more features than most mmo titles coming out now, unless you're just talking about gpu shadow inclusion? Otherwise, the mapping and effects (and cpu shadows) are amazing, and were stunningly brilliant for their time in an mmo title. Sure, you can argue about style vs technical prowess, EQ2's been pretty light in the style category, but to call it out on the capability of the engine is humorous to anyone who has actually played the game beyond the initial retail release (which I despised).
Really? Develop for a console, then. Because it's so difficult to tweak options for a few minutes then save it as a preset and never touch it again.

I've bought tons of decorative stuff in Sims 3. Unless they do start adding more storage, though, it would quickly exacerbate the existing storage issues.

I believe I read about twenty slots for cosmetic items in the official propaganda,

Except there aren't ten slots on the cosmetic doll. There's like 7.

They'll introduce a separate 20-slot storage that only holds cosmetic items. About time too, since now they hog up regular vault space. Linky quote from Patience. (http://forums.lotro.com/showpost.php?p=4700239&postcount=5)

This has gotten me to look into getting a 10 day trial. I already have a Turbine account, so I can't just go from trial page and create an account, apparently. Have a query in to support, which will probably get answered just in time for F2P.

The more I think about it, the more I am liking the concept, at least. Being able to pick and choose when I spend my money will give the game a longer life for me. With subscription models I cancel when I get bored, since I can't justify the costs. With this model I can check back in now and then; if something catches my fancy, I can play (and spend more money) from there.

Where does everyone play? I suppose I could check the subforum...

I was going to retort before I remembered that Monster Play is shit.  PvP, no... can't have that.  PvM needs some work, and by that I mean the Ettenmoors and its systems need to be abandoned.

The idea that the monsters are like mobs, weaker toe to toe, and requiring some sort of tactics against our Brave Heroes of Yore was brilliant. It ended up falling by the wayside and now it's... I don't know what it is.

Rather than SirBruce you with a fat stack of quotes and one-line answers, I'll sort all my thoughts into piles.

Disagree. I think the fundamentals are reasonably sound but the entire thing suffers from a weird combination of bloat and neglect. As I recall, the initial idea was to pimp PvM quite a bit as a fun side game, lower the entry so everyone level 10+ could be a monster and have a power ratio of two monsters equals one hero. That last bit is important and where it got all fucked up. The idea that the monsters are like mobs, weaker toe to toe, and requiring some sort of tactics against our Brave Heroes of Yore was brilliant. It ended up falling by the wayside and now it's... I don't know what it is.

Don't forget that in addition to the points you're getting if you continue to subscribe until launch, you also will earn points in the game through gameplay, so you'll be able to purchase some of the content if you choose to, without paying any real money for it.

Your subscription didn't cover content; it covered your access to the servers. Right now if you stop your subscription, you lose *all* access to the game. Under the new model if you drop your subscription, you can still keep playing the game with limitations that can be overcome.

Yes. As a former subscriber, you're not subject to the natural caps on gold and inventory bags that free players have.

Essentially, it's like this: When you purchased Shadows of Angmar, you had (have) to have a subscription to access that content. If you no longer subscribe, you lose access to it.

Under the new model, even if you drop your subscription you can keep playing for free, but not everything is available to you like it is for subscribers. You won't lose access to all of the SOA content, but you will lose access to some of it unless you purchase it. As it stands now, under the current plan you can play some of the starting content and the epic storyline up to Moria for free, and the landscape up to Moria is free as well.

One of the things the beta is for is to help us determine which parts, if any, of the additional content from SOA should be made free and which should be made purchasable and for how much.

So in other words, no final answer yet, but the beta will help it get finalized!

Meghan

We'll figure this out, though I am not sure when it's scheduled to be revamped. The reason you don't lose your house now if you don't pay is that too many players complained that they lost their houses (because you did used to lose it if you didn't pay the upkeep) - all kinds of things can prevent you from logging in for a while.

P.S. My main's house is currently locked. :P

If you are not a VIP you will not be able to enter the Ettenmoors on either side.

As a lifetime account, nothing changes for you - you still have access to all of the content you do today, you'll get content updates for free, but you may need to buy expansion packs, just as you do now. The difference is that you can buy expansions with Turbine Points, effectively gettng them for free if you save up the stipend instead of using it in the LOTRO Store for other things.

Have you guys checked out the DDO Store at all?

While LOTRO's pricing will be largely refined during the beta, its pricing model won't differ that much from DDO's. Take a look, realizing that their VIPs also get 500 points (in addition to the points that everyone earns in the game through DDO's Favor system), and decide for yourselves.

In fact, here are a few links that might help you - you don't even need to download the game.

Store Specials (http://"http://www.ddo.com/ddostoresale"): Lists the original price as well as the sale price.
Featured Item of the Week (http://"http://www.ddo.com/ddostore/1009-new-haste-potion-10-a-25-stacks"): Haste Potions!
This page is great (http://"http://www.ddo.com/ddostore/981-fight-the-undead") - has quite a few items on it.

Hope that helps give you some facts to help the discussion. :)

I've seen this concern a good bit of late and I'm not sure I fully understand it. This community grew out of a group of people who did not always see eye-to-eye or have the same goals. We have casual players, hardcore players, PvMP'ers, Raiders, Role Players. Most people would tell you those groups cannot co-exist well. Yet, with LOTRO they do.  I think it's far too soon to start judging people. Especially those you have never met.

Remember, each of 'Us' was once one of 'Them'.

The chart is designed to show a player who has never touched LOTRO what they get at various levels. If you came to LOTRO on day one of the Free-to-Play launch, that's what you would get.

For existing subscribers and lifetime members, nothing changes for you as long as you maintain your subscription (that's what makes you a VIP). So anything you have now (like your current level cap) would remain the same.

Yes, you will be able to buy additional shared storage, and there is also a cosmetic item wardrobe that will hold 20 items (it does a couple of other nifty things, but we'll spill the beans on that later this summer. ;) )

Bags are still maxed at 5, for now.

Meghan

Pricing is still to be finalized, but there's not necessarily a fixed price since they go on sale sometimes, or special bundles are offered at a discount, etc.

I'm going to confuse your math a little bit here.  In addition to points going on sale or being offered in various discounted bundles, the DDO team also places items within the store on sale as well. So you may well be able to buy your hair dyes at less than 195 points each during a sale on that item.

So if you took advantage of both a discounted points bundle, and a discounted item sale, the costs change quite a bit. That's why it's hard to say something definitive like, "Item A will cost X points which is Y dollars."

POINT BUNDLE                                   DESCRIPTION                                                PRICE (USD)*
420 Points            400 Turbine Points (+ 20 Bonus Points) to use in the DDO Store            $6.50
1,550 Points    1,200 Turbine Points (+ 350 Bonus Points) to use in the DDO Store            $19.50
2,500 Points    1,820 Turbine Points (+ 680 Bonus Points) to use in the DDO Store            $29.50
5,000 Points    3,100 Turbine Points (+ 1,900 Bonus Points) to use in the DDO Store    $49.99
 

This bit maybe belongs more properly in the LOTRO forum but Jesus fuck, that long between content updates? One of the selling points for me was a steadier release of low key content than WoW.

Of course for a perfectionist looking inside a deed log and seeing 4325987 incomplete kill deeds probably triggers a Pavlovian reaction, which Turbine are now going to harness.  :grin:

More screenshots at Casual Stroll to Mordor (http://www.casualstrolltomordor.com/2010/06/lotro-store-screenshots/).

Looks like the Item descriptions in the third picture are actually from DDO Store items, lol. House Deneith for example.

Correct. There will be ways in game to earn various amounts of Turbine points. In theory, you could never spend a penny in the store but still acquire enough Turbine Points to purchase everything you would want. It would take a great deal of effort, but it would be possible.

In contrast, subscribers will be able to earn points in game plus they will be given an additional 500 points per month for being a subscriber.

They cap out at 10, though. There's no need to go apeshit unless you find yourself at level 65 and a bunch of 8s across your screen when you bring them up. Not to mention there are plenty that you don't need as any given class.

My OCD says otherwise, but yes, there's no reason to go around doing all the kill deeds.  I do it because I like to collect things, not because I have been indoctrinated to drive to max level as fast as possible or fiddle with half-percent PVP advantages in MMOs.  Also, I don't remember wiping and thinking "Man, if only I had a couple more levels in TRAIT, I'd have won."  I just like to collect things.

If there's one in-game needed item that I do almost hope they sell (fixing the base system would be preferable obviously) it is the relic thingies that go into legendary weapons. The process for trading those up to higher tiers etc is just way beyond ridiculous grind-wise.

lol, not if you skirmish!

No. Even if you skirmish, the relic grind is stupid. I love LotRO, I love the guys who make it (and know some of them personally), but I'm still going to say that the relic grind is stupid.

After all this (http://my.lotro.com/character/gladden/mayda/skirmishstats), plus general play from when Moria shipped, I've only made three level 7 relics.

Do you level legendary items on the side then nuke them around 40-50?  I believe its 232 skirm marks or so for a decent XP boost and levels stuff lickety split.

I have three slots for leveling LIs. Usually I break them down at 11 (I'm told by number-crunchers that's the most efficient place to do it), but sometimes I let them go until 31.

Hmmm.... I haven't had many issues getting relics, even without trying.

Yeah, I read the math behind it at some point.  Personally I just grab an extra LI, et it to 41ish, then nuke it.  Lots of good return and higher level runes.  With skirms it really does not take long.

All personal opinion aside I thought that having a monthly fee + a sticky franchise would help retention.  Wouldn't going F2P just allow people to switch more easily?  I mean, how many people stay with a game just because they're already paying for it?   People take a looong time to quit a game no matter how much forum handwringing they do.

Burglars have some of the most adorable ability names though!

Guardians are rare for a reason.  And it's not a good reason.

Edit:  so locked quests....  are these only for new content (new zones)?  What about if I paid for areas covered under earlier expansions + vanilla original.  Are they going to make me pay for certain ones in the old content?  (I don't mean new quests added to old zones.)

#  I purchased the Mines of Moria™ Expansion and/or the Siege of Mirkwood™ Expansion. Can I still access this content? Will I still be able to play my Rune-keeper or Warden characters? What if I unsubscribe?

When LOTRO Free-to-Play becomes available you will still be able to access the content and features of any expansions you have previously purchased. Whether you are a VIP or a Premium player, the content and features of these expansions will be available to you in their entirety.

If you decide not to join the VIP program or decide to downgrade to Premium player status, the content and features of these expansions will still be available to you. You will still be able to play your Rune-keeper and Warden characters as long as they are in character slots you have selected or have unlocked by visiting the LOTRO Store.

Guardians are rare for a reason.  And it's not a good reason.

Wife's main is a Hobbit Guardian.  She adores it.  But it was a bad grind, low DKP etc.  Not an easy solo class.

not to mention that the levelling process itself is quicker.

1-25 is far faster now than what I remember from beta. I seem to have hit the grindiest bit now though- early to mid 30s I seem to hit a wall. I am trying to get through it so I can see Moria, dammit.

Do burglars have much of a role in groups? Why are there so few of them?

Yeah, burglars are a strange class all around - they occupy a role that really doesn't even exist in most MMOs.

Hobbit Guardian sounds hilariously right up my alley. Do burglars have much of a role in groups? Why are there so few of them?

Yeah I am leveling a champ with the full knowledge that it is the ret paladin of LotRO, but it is really quite powerful and fun solo. As I'm not really expecting to group a lot it is a fine choice I think.

See, this sucks because I'm bored with WoW, this sounds like a lot of fun, and I want to try it right now. It's a huge tease. I'm going to have to pout in a corner for two months, and then it's football season, so I won't get to play much then either.  :heartbreak:

So, I'm finally trying to stick with LOTRO a bit more (not because I don't find engaging, I think it's VERY well done, but during my previous attempts I always got back to single player games and other RL stuff :P).

I created a Human Champion, Elf Warden, Hobbit Hunter and Dwarf Runekeeper; by the way, I'm not interested in the best race/class relationship and that kind of hardcore attitude, I'll just try to give them a decent roleplay background and play the stories, that's it :).

But still, I would like to give to each of the above characters the appropriate vocation, so I can mantain a nice flow of resources between them. Which vocation would you suggest for each of them? Thanks (and by the way, I'll move this post to the graveyard section if requested, no problem).

I'm with Azazel, grab a discounted box and gooooo. It'll even give you a headstart over the F2P rush.  :grin:

Fuck outside, the sun is out there. And the sun burns. <hiss>


(This stance would make more sense if you had the faintest idea of exactly how pale I am. Let us just say: I am very, very pale.)

Stop tempting me! ARGH!

It's summer and I should be outside and shit.  :oh_i_see:
So I'm told.

Stop tempting me! ARGH!
It's summer and I should be outside and shit.  :oh_i_see:
So I'm told.

Fuck outside, the sun is out there. And the sun burns. <hiss>


(This stance would make more sense if you had the faintest idea of exactly how pale I am. Let us just say: I am very, very pale.)

I look like Gollum's cousin.  Arthur can confirm this.  I'm still not convinced.

Lord of the Rings Online News - Free To Play Beta Keys! (http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/45/view/news/read/17536/Lord-of-the-Rings-Online-Free-To-Play-Beta-Keys.html)

also, new and returning people. Brandywine server is where its at.

Is there any way to have the Beta downloader run a force-check if I stick the current (as of last week) MirkwoodSetup-N.bin files in the download directory?  (It seemed to ignore simply copying the files over and appending .downloading.)

I have a key, but I'd rather roll the dice and pay them the $15 to reactivate my retail account than download another 10 gigs at a snail's pace just for the Beta.

So premium = had an account? And I'm assuming my purchased packs will also translate?

Moving the current client to avoid downloading the beta version of the client did not work for me. They seem to be incompatible.

However, I have personally moved the entire live game to various machines and external drives and just ran the launcher. It will download some necessary files and what not (mostly Dot.net. This method REQUIRES you download and use 1.0 of dont.net to use the launcher this way), but works after that. Dont forget to copy the LOTRO files located in your documents if you dont want to reset your key binds or GUI stuff.

The client even runs directly off an external drive as long as the client machine has dot.net (one point something, it will tell you the first time you attempt to run the launcher from inside the folder).

The only exception to this is if you installed VIA the Turbine download manager, I have no experience with this.


I believe this is correct, at least for a time. To put it simply, if you have bought any expansion, or adventure pack, that content will never be locked to you. This includes bank space, classes, toon slots, ETC..

Can you buy stuff outside your class? I would love to be able to port around without looking at the ass end of a horse for 10 minutes.

*Shrug*

I found them, I posted them. Wasn't for anyone in particular.

I would imagine that the maps (ports) are not class dependent.

This is a game that I really like and for some reason when I played I felt NO pressure or desire to power game.  In that sense, its been one of my favorites because I can relax when I play.  On the other hand, because it never captured my obsession, I also never stuck with it longer than a month or two at a time.  Then again, that might be ideal for me when it goes free for good.

This is a game that I really like and for some reason when I played I felt NO pressure or desire to power game.  In that sense, its been one of my favorites because I can relax when I play.  On the other hand, because it never captured my obsession, I also never stuck with it longer than a month or two at a time.  Then again, that might be ideal for me when it goes free for good.

Sigh.  Elena likes this more than me.

It's not good.  Graphics that totally turn me off (even in the supposed wondrous ULTRA resolution) gameplay that's frankly BORING, not very much fun and the WORST thing about it is how really, really, really HARD it is to understand shit that's going on.  Tutorials blow and clearly I'm getting hit by 3 expansions worth of upgrades at once that's utterly overwhelming.  Congrats, you've got THIS DEED !!  Wow.  Great.  What the Fuck's a Deed ? Where do I craft ?  What is crafting ?  These things in my pack, how are they coded ?  What does this stat mean ?  Why does my Character sheet have 60 Millions stats and tabs ?  Why the fuck would I want 3 separate outfits ?  (actually, that bit I like.)

Where are the groups ?  Where are the instances (apparently I've done one solo.  I hardly noticed at the time...)  Where's the immersion ?  They may as well have called the towns 'Experience hub 1'. 'Experience Hub 2', etc.  The quests are Utterly, Utterly Shit.  It's ALL RATS ALL THE TIME.

I've tried the Warden, the Burglar and the Guardian and, well, it's just Not For Me.  It's a shame;  being a massive Tolkien fan I SHOULD be getting hooked by this but there's simply NO hooks in the game that I can see.

It's a reminder to me of why WoW is eating everyones lunch, even though my WoW playing days are coming to an End with Cataclysm.

I'll persist for the rest of the trial and, frankly, if anyone out there wants to group up and teach me shit, that'd be great, but you have to be prepared for my....uniquely negative outlook on things.

A bunch of LOTRO F2P screen shots. (http://www.casualstrolltomordor.com/2010/07/new-lotro-free-to-play-screenshots/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+cstmfeed+%28A+Casual+Stroll+to+Mordor+Blog%29&utm_content=Twitter)

Is crafting still cockblocked such that you can only craft stuff for people 5+ levels below you, not for yourself?

I don't find this shit fun anymore.  I expect to walk up to questgivers like that and hear them saying 'Fuck me, look at all those fucking mobs, I'm OUTTA HERE.'  and then get a quest to maybe hold his stuff while he runs.

Sigh.

People who don't like the graphics are bonkers though.

Is crafting still cockblocked such that you can only craft stuff for people 5+ levels below you, not for yourself?

The statement "I don't find this shit fun anymore." speaks volumes.
  

It was meant to.

I'm done with this crap.  All  of it.  Time to wait for some actual innovation.

I'll try it when it's free. StarCraft will probably take me two months until I realize I have no chance in multiplayer and I want something with more "Go here, do this."

I like LotRO because it is calm and easy.

if it's for bored twentysomethings,

If that's a dig at me, I should probably be honored....

I thought you were actually 60 and shot people on your lawn on sight.  :why_so_serious:

I will admit it.  I like LotRO because it is calm and easy.  I am not looking for a challenge.  I want a Tolkien-themed... uh, theme park.  I don't know what the Next Level of MMO will look like but if it's for bored twentysomethings, I probably won't like it.

If I may, I think some of you are tainted by the one sided nature of classes in other games, and, on the flip, my recent venture to Wow again, I am having the flipped issue, coming from LOTRO with the high utility and broader range of a class ability's and roles (debatably watered down "roles"), to Wow's cut and dry classes. ( I suppose druid and paladin are exceptions, but I haven't played them yet ).

It may be thats its hard for you to find your "role" whole I'm having a hard time being a one trick pony. A bastard child of the two may be welcome.

With Respect.

It was meant to.

I'm done with this crap.  All  of it.  Time to wait for some actual innovation.

If I may, I think some of you are tainted by the one sided nature of classes in other games, and, on the flip, my recent venture to Wow again, I am having the flipped issue, coming from LOTRO with the high utility and broader range of a class ability's and roles (debatably watered down "roles"), to Wow's cut and dry classes. ( I suppose druid and paladin are exceptions, but I haven't played them yet ).

It may be thats its hard for you to find your "role" whole I'm having a hard time being a one trick pony. A bastard child of the two may be welcome.

With Respect.

I'm blown away by the idea that the classes in either LotRO or WoW are more limited than the classes in DAOC. DAOC classes had like 3 spells each*.  :uhrr: WoW warriors and LotRO guardians and champs are all about a thousand times deeper than DAOC warriors or even my precious thane.

*hyperbole, but still.

You like chocolate, I like vanilla.  Tastes vary.

It is not now, but I don't think it ever was... I probably don't understand your exact complaint, though.  You do still need to get some things from other people, such as a metalsmith/tailor not being able to make his own leather for armor components.  Can be gotten from AH if you don't want to make an alt.

eems to be the best fit for me so far (when I thought champ would).  

edit:  Class feel hasn't helped me with LOTRO, but I'm a person that has a really hell of a time picking a class in a game. I switch mains 2-3 times an expansion.  There's been a lot of games I just couldn't get into because I couldn't settle on a class.   LOTRO just hasn't helped because none of the classes leap of the screen at me as the right choice.

As for the class thing, unfortunately none of the healers stand out to me, which is what I usually play.  Among the damage dealers though, Burgler totally has "Cal, play me."  I would like to make a healer eventually, just that choosing between Minstrel, Rune-Keeper, and Captain seems a bit like choosing among different places to get stabbed...

Regardless crafting gear for yourself is rather pointless since you're not getting good stuff for the time you can craft it, and you don't need to use it to "fill slots"

If that's a dig at me, I should probably be honored....

I've found crafting extemely beneficial, but only in a specific circumstance - twinking.  My supreme master tailor, metalsmith, and weaponsmith can furnish great sets of armor and weapons for my lower level characters, especially if i crit the one shot recipes.  Otherwise, I agree that you can't really make stuff for yourself.  There are a few useful items I can make for my max level guys, like the Galadhrim armor and weapons, but that's it.

I played a minstrel to 30.  It's a buff class.  If you don't like mashing buttons to keep buffs up, then don't bother.

I think I've spent more time at max level with my main than I did leveling it.  I still have things I like to do and stats I can buff more and objectives I can grind up.  I like that there are still options for me to decide what I might like to work on today.  The beauty of it is that I have never raided.  I have done maybe three instances, one time each.  I couldn't stand them, or raiding.  This is not a LotRO-specific hate.  I hate how they work in every MMO.  The ones here are actually the least offensive I have experienced, because they are paced and scripted well, and I can do one and afterward be guaranteed to have gotten something from it, even if it's only a token.

Making it past 35 doesn't make you safe from burn out. I've come and gone several times since then even in the middle of Moria. The game is still boringly grindy, and in Moria they still use travel as punishment to make you indulge in another horrible faction grind just to get a working mount - your horse doesn't work underground you see.

I just can't seem to push myself past level 35.  I've made it there 4 times.  Maybe my 5th attempt will make it to the endgame.

September 10th.

Current subscribers/players (anyone who has an active subscription as of Sept. 7th.)
Former Subscribers.
Anyone who has purchased Shadows of Angmar, Mines of Moria, or Siege of Mirkwood products.
LOTRO F2P Beta participants (must have logged into and played the beta version of LOTRO F2P Beta prior to the close of beta)

Mini-bump -- LOTRO f2p is coming next week.  :drill:

As a reminder, there are some things you can do pre-F2P to get VIP access for a few months on the cheap, see here -- http://www.casualstrolltomordor.com/2010/08/experience-lotro-vip-access-for-less/
This (http://www.massively.com/2010/08/27/the-road-to-mordor-frugal-free-to-play/) Massively article also gives a good overview about F2P resources and how to get the most out of the game on a tight budget. I find it interesting that the purchase of only 3 leveling packs (North Downs, Evendim, Forochel) gives you enough content to get to Moria... at least in theory. :p

I hate being so painfully negative. The game has so much potential - there's a reason I keep going back. Unfortunately, the devs just don't seem to quite understand that the days of wasting players time with long painful travel and arduous grinding as a way to slow down content consumption is well in the past.

Seriously, some heads need to roll starting at the top. Some improvements have been made but not enough - or they wouldn't need to be doing this free to play nonsense.

The travel time is waaaayyyyy better than it used to be. Plenty of fast travel, plenty of paths. The only irritating remnants are Forochel's paths being entirely linked to rep, so that when you go there in Book 13 post-leveling speed changes most people don't have anything unlocked. That's obnoxious as fuck.

There are but they're not remotely as bad.

I don't know. I just don't feel the grindiness.

I've come and gone from Lotro lots of times. I never leave in a rage. I just get overcome with boredom and stop logging in.

Do you not bother with traits and titles or crafting then?

Communities are self-selecting. A group of people who play any game "seriously" is going to generally have positive feelings about the game and not perceive its problems as problems.  These aren't the guys to listen to if you hope to attract and retain new people. On the other hand you don't want to destroy their game like SWG did either.

I've come and gone from Lotro lots of times. I never leave in a rage. I just get overcome with boredom and stop logging in.

This is a good description for me. I don't hate lotro or anything, I'm just finding it tedious at the moment, and therefore not really playing.

Do you not bother with traits and titles or crafting then?

Or leveling beyond the early 30s?

If you like Skirmishes, the 30s are made fantastically easy by the Skirmish Daily.  ~5k experience isn't a whole lot at 40+ though.  I do hope the bonus doesn't change too much with the minimum level going down to 20 since the 20s are already pretty fast.

Aside from that, the "fast" horse is down to level 20 so trotting around North Downs on a horse that's barely faster than class travel abilities is gone.

Aside from that, the "fast" horse is down to level 20 so trotting around North Downs on a horse that's barely faster than class travel abilities is gone.

DO they still have that stupid "GO visit every Shitty location in Middle Earth" quest to unlock the fast horse?

Yes.  It destroys morale when you see multiple timed quests in a row with timers near and in excess of 20 mins.

Horse prices still the same?

Does the instance thing help find a group or is it like the skirmishes were in Jan, you have to build a group (without any tools) first and then you can do the instance?

Yes.  It destroys morale when you see multiple timed quests in a row with timers near and in excess of 20 mins.

Its gone now.  You just have to run around the track.  Confirmed in game with my warden. 

Most of my fast travel points are locked and it says to go to the store to unlock them, but it's only one use stuff. Is that just how it is now? Because that would seem a little, horrific.

150 points unlocks fast travel for an hour. It's ridiculous. It's like they're planning to make money off the shittiness of the game rather than fix it.

No, it's unlocked for subscribers. I'm not certain if the rep grinds to unlock the fast routes in the first place still exist though.

You haven't been to Forochel yet have you? Talk to me again about how you feel about rep grinds and fast travel once you've been through that hellhole. :awesome_for_real:

Do the fast travel routes from NPC’s still require kindred rep to open them?  One example: that route from Estledin to Garth Fornaire (?) in Angmar (the cave) was awful to grind.  Can you buy that now via the store?  

I didn't mind the Forochel unlock, but the Garth Forthnir one I never did. Luckily, as a hunter, I got the port spell that takes me straight there, so didn't have to worry about it.

I didn't mind the Forochel unlock, but the Garth Forthnir one I never did. Luckily, as a hunter, I got the port spell that takes me straight there, so didn't have to worry about it.

but you also have the option to pay to unlock them for an hour.

You need to come play on Brandywine, damnit.

Shit, Angmar the zone makes me goddamn stabby. Paths that go all over the place through shittons of aggro mobs, too many heroic/elite mobs scattered about, too many quests that are group-oriented.

Did I read correctly that they reduced the aggro range of mobs?  If so, the wandering trash will be less of a pain in zones like Angmar and Misty Mts

Its gone now.  You just have to run around the track.  Confirmed in game with my warden. 

Finally, the one bad thing so far is that I'm one of those people whose TP calculations are way, way off and I have 150 where other people have around 4000.  /sadf  On the other hand, I somehow got a shit-ton of skirmish marks.  Should be able to get that Rune of Winged Dominance any day now.

TP is going to get fixed.  I recommend ignoring it until next week!

The skirmish mark thing is because they reset your soldier back down to starting, so you'll need to put those right back into the soldier probably.

Did you not see "Rune of Winged Dominance"? :why_so_serious:

I'm not sure how soon I can actually start playing this even semi-regularly, but when I do I'll probably make a character on Brandywine. If I do end up doing that, what class would benefit the kinship more?

I've played through all of them and tend to favor The Captain, The Burglar, The Minstrel, and the Loremaster in that order. I also enjoy Warden. I might have enjoyed LM more if I'd actually played it further into the 20s. Felt like it was starting to bloom a bit.

150 points unlocks fast travel for an hour. It's ridiculous. It's like they're planning to make money off the shittiness of the game rather than fix it.

You do not need to use Turbine Points to purchase travel as a VIP (subscriber, lifetimer). If you do not currently have access to a swift travel route (reputation to low for example) you may use your points to unlock that ability for a period of time.  (http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?354815-So-a-paid-subscriber-needs-to-use-TP-to-quot-Unlock-quot-in-game-travel-access&p=4958154#post4958154)

So after looking last night. This isn't the case.


The only ones that do not have Swift travel are F2p people. The ability you buy (Freedom costs a buck-o-five) allows you to ignore ALL prerequisites of ANY swift travel location for an hour.

So, for instance if you have not been to the required stable at the other end, you can't use the swift route, buy the shop item, and you can, with the added bonus of now you don't have to run/ride out there to get the stable. Its actually quite a time saver, for a buck fifty.

Swift Travel doesn't do anything to save you from the tedium that is Book 4 as none of the Trollshaws quest hubs have Swift Travel.

The breakdown on zones is:

Everyone has access to Bree, Ered Luin, and the Shire.
If you buy (or previously bought) Moria and/or Mirkwood, you have access to those zones forever.
If you're subscribed, you have access to all of Eriador.

If you aren't a VIP (i.e. a subscriber/lifer), you need to buy quest packs for the Eriador zones as all you have by default are the three starter zones and the book/class quests.

When I stopped playing this last my characters were all 20-35 ish.  It seems pretty harsh that I can't really do anything at all without paying for an unlock right off the bat.

edit - it seems that I would have Moria open as I bought that expansion, but none of my characters are high enough to go there  :oh_i_see:

I have no problem paying a monthly subscription fee.  But to make me pay the *same* fee again per month and then charge me on top of that for content I bought already in 2006/2007...

Let me ask it this way:  I bought Mines of Moria.  What does it actually give me besides two new classes?

What?

If you sub, everything is unlocked. If you choose not to sub, you can buy quest packs that are yours forever. There is no sub + buy quest packs.

BW, are you sure?  Can you show me where?  Honest question because I'm very confused and so are a lot of people it seems on the forums.  

Is it just the case people want to play for free and some of the old content is not available?

http://www.lotro.com/betasignup/vipchart.html
http://www.lotro.com/free.php

What gripes me about the SoA areas being locked is that if you start now, they will cost you whatever say it's $40. If you started at launch, you've already paid $40 or whatever for a box that included those levels and now you're paying again. I can understand the concept that I had access to those earlier for subscription and all that, but it doesn't change the emotional reaction to the expense and limiting the emotional reaction to expense is how you make money on a cash shop game--boil the frog slowly so it doesn't jump.

BW, are you sure?  Can you show me where?  Honest question because I'm very confused and so are a lot of people it seems on the forums. 

Is it just the case people want to play for free and some of the old content is not available?

http://www.lotro.com/betasignup/vipchart.html
http://www.lotro.com/free.php

Let me ask it this way:  I bought Mines of Moria.  What does it actually give me besides two new classes?

Fuck it, I got nothing. I'll go ahead and jump on this grenade and see how big a bang it turns out to be.

What I'm hoping to see:

Complete Vol 1 Book 4: 900 TP (hint, I might pay twice that)

For what it's worth, I am currently subscribed having only bought up to MoM... my highest character is level 42 - and all the content/quests in Angmar are currently open and free.

Even in my other life as an evil software vendor... you get to keep our business software that you purchased - even if you stop paying maintenance.  I'm not following Turbine's rationale for making you re-buy content if you are a premium subscriber... seems that the F2P model should start at the moment you exceed your final box purchase... either after SoA or MoM or SoM.

Has anyone managed to actually get a free account yet?

I saw that the F2P Euro launch got delayed but I logged into my Turbine account and can't see an option to add LOTRO online withouth a serial number and when I filled in all the boxes on the website for F2P it just gave me the client download which I cancelled (because I've already got it installed) and then nothing, no confirmation email, nothing?

I got an email with LOTRO Account Creation Details as the header...

As usual, code masters has dropped the ball on the EU launch.

But no, trying to create a Lotro and link it to your existing DDO account requires either an email to support or a work around involving getting a beta key from gamespot, because if you try to use the free account tools it tells you of course that your username is already taken.

Duh.

But no, trying to create a Lotro and link it to your existing DDO account requires either an email to support or a work around involving getting a beta key from gamespot, because if you try to use the free account tools it tells you of course that your username is already taken.

Duh.

Yeah, that annoyed the shit out of me too, but since DDO's Turbine Points and LOTRO's Turbine Points are not interchangeable it's really not that big a deal in the long run.

That is even dumber. Why not make it all one virtual currency? Speaking for myself, I would be far more likely to check another game out if I had unspent 'Turbine bucks' or whatever and could use them in more than one title.

I'm guessing it's to limit crossover.  If you're a diehard DDO player, then you'll have a gadzillion TP already.  Spending the TP to play Lotro gains the player a lot while providing little in terms of new revenue for Turbine.  It's all about the benjamins.

You get free store points for completing deeds on a character.  My understanding is that a character should have around 750 points gratis just for playing.  Buy five bucks worth of points and upgrade to a premium account, then play three characters, and that's 2750 points on your account.  Not a huge windfall, but ample for unlocking the higher level quests and playing the game.

That is even dumber. Why not make it all one virtual currency? Speaking for myself, I would be far more likely to check another game out if I had unspent 'Turbine bucks' or whatever and could use them in more than one title.

I'm kinda sad I leveled a LM as my main, though... my warden can port to a lot of places and my captain can summon people. (yes, I'm still bitter about that entire pay-to-fast-travel thing :p)

I've been playing for free. I used to subscribe and I have bought Moira (sp). Lack of bags is the worst so far. I hear that at 25 ill need to spend points but if I manage my traits I wont need to spend money. We will see. I am a horrible alt a holic and my highest is 13 warden. I like the game so far. The newbie experience in Bree has changed for the better. At 13 I'm just going into the marsh and the quests are the same as ever.

I've been playing for free. I used to subscribe and I have bought Moira (sp). Lack of bags is the worst so far. I hear that at 25 ill need to spend points but if I manage my traits I wont need to spend money. We will see. I am a horrible alt a holic and my highest is 13 warden. I like the game so far. The newbie experience in Bree has changed for the better. At 13 I'm just going into the marsh and the quests are the same as ever.

Cheddar I have toons on brandywine. Its been so long I have no idea what there doing so I started over. Name a time and I will log in to one and try to sort things out. Hell I may still be in the guild. I am pretty sure some of them were.

OK Cheader here's what I have figured out. In guild 19 warden, 20 Minni. Out of guild 19 hunter, 19 guard, 19 cap. I only get 5 slots now so so I can't say about the other two. I seem to have missed you buy 8 minutes but saw nebu in guild so I think I am telling it right. Every one is running out of quests, seems that they all are at the point of switching quest hubs and I never sorted it out. It's late now but I will log in the morning and try to sort it out.

Hey Hal.  If you want to send me a tell, I'll try to get you an invite.  I'm a peon, so I can't invite you myself but can usually find someone online that can.

I am totally making you an officer.  Hell yeah!

Lord of the Rings Online Executive Producer Kate Paiz announced during a panel at GDC Online 2010 today that Turbine has done it again: Lord of the Rings Online has doubled its revenue and created over a million new accounts since going free-to-play early last month. That's the second MMO Turbine has taken from a paid subscription to a hybrid microtransactions-based business model, with Dungeons and Dragons Online doing the same thing last year (important to note: Paiz was in charge of both transitions, switching to LotRO in July). Paiz told us after the panel that LotRO  wasn't in trouble, but rather that Turbine did the math and decided the switch would work. "We knew there was more out there for us," she said.

Paiz also shared that 20% of LotRO's former players have returned to the game since the switchover, and that the game has seen a 300% increase in peak concurrency, with three times the number of players online simultaneously, and a 400% increase in active players total. 53% of players have used the in-game microtransaction store (which sells everything from mounts and outfits to XP boosts and character slots), and as you can see above, extra storage slots are extremely popular in the store. And even paid subscriptions have increased. Turbine's lesson seems to be that, as Paiz said during the panel, "when you tell people you no longer have to pay for it, they come in droves."

Still no F2P in Europe though.

Current speculation is that's all down to legal shenanigans rather than something technical.

We saw this same kind of increase with DDO.  It was followed by a sharp decline after 2-3 months.  I'm wondering if the same thing will happen here.  

We saw this same kind of increase with DDO.  It was followed by a sharp decline after 2-3 months.  I'm wondering if the same thing will happen here. 

It seems like most of that list is made of up things that are one time purchases for most players.

Whatever your stance on the whole free to play thing, there's definitely been a net positive improvement on the game since beta, when I started.  I think you'll enjoy yourself.

I entered one month when it went F2P, but it ran out, and I'm not resubbing. My characer was 60 so I had to bump him up to 65, which was kind of fun I guess. I did some of the new dungeons, played some alts, but it didn't really grab me. One thing that annoyed me was how little of a difference there was between 60 and 65 gear. The whole thing felt totally pointless, even after running a bunch of dungones I think I got a ring and a new shield and that's it. Even looking at the latest raid set it was such a slight upgrade over my VM set I just couldn't help but go WTF?

Why work so hard on raiding when a few weeks leveling in the expansion will invalidate all the equipment gains?

The obvious answer of course is "because you enjoy raiding". Different strokes, etc., though.

The obvious answer of course is "because you enjoy raiding". Different strokes, etc., though.

The obvious answer of course is "because you enjoy raiding". Different strokes, etc., though.

People generally don't enjoy raiding after the first trip through a dungeon if at all.  They enjoy getting new stuff.  Saying "I enjoy raiding" is a serious misnomer for most MMO enthusiasts.  If they did enjoy raiding, you'd see fewer people powergaming the system and more enjoying the raid.  

Ask yourself this: If you could get exactly the same gear running an instance solo, how many people would still raid those instances?  I'm guessing a few guilds would for fun, but they're in the minority.  

It's all about loot and epeen.  People enjoy having the best loot.  For the most part they endure the pain that is raiding to have it. 

People generally don't enjoy raiding after the first trip through a dungeon if at all.  They enjoy getting new stuff.  Saying "I enjoy raiding" is a serious misnomer for most MMO enthusiasts.  If they did enjoy raiding, you'd see fewer people powergaming the system and more enjoying the raid.  

Ask yourself this: If you could get exactly the same gear running an instance solo, how many people would still raid those instances?  I'm guessing a few guilds would for fun, but they're in the minority.  

It's all about loot and epeen.  People enjoy having the best loot.  For the most part they endure the pain that is raiding to have it. 

Would people play CRPGs in general if it weren't for collecting loot?  Does that mean that the genre is "painful" to play?

Would people play CRPGs in general if it weren't for collecting loot?  Does that mean that the genre is "painful" to play?

I'm sorry but their entire store interface is absolutely terrible.  I wanted to come back for a month to do some monster play but after 20 minutes of trying to figure out how to upgrade my account to "VIP" I just gave up in frustration.

I went to take advantage of the huge quest pack discount, only to find that my VIP membership (I had a multi-month sub running when lotro went f2p, it's still active) forbids me from buying quest packs. Ah well, more money for me! :awesome_for_real:

If you get VIP, do you get everything for sale on the store for free as part of your VIP?

or are there random things you have to buy also?

When do I get an MMO that fights like Virtua Fighter or Tekken and has quests that are involved and interesting?

I want to play a Warden, when I researched what class I would like, Warden jumped out at me as being exactly my style.  Except that playing a Warden costs 10 bux.  So, if having a unique and aggressive play style was supposed to be an element that would bring me in to the game long term and cause me to buy subscriptions and expansions it missed the boat.

If you think you want to play a warden, you're generally best off finding a copy of Mines of Moria; Gamestop's selling them for ten bucks.  That way you get the whole expansion unlocked rather than just a single class for the money.

I guess I made the mistake of typing "Mines of Moria" into gamestop search:

Did you mean mines of mario ?

Unfortunately, there were no matches for mines of moria.

Gamestop's selling them for ten bucks.

   

Dear xxxxxxxxxxx,

Today marks an important milestone in the history of The Lord of the Rings Online™, (LOTRO) as it introduces a Free to Play model.

With that in mind, we are pleased to inform you that your Codemasters Online Player Account can now be used to access The Lord of the Rings Online free of charge. All you need to do is download the game and use your existing account details to log in and play.

To re-iterate, LOTRO is now Free-to-Play so you will not be charged. If you do not wish to take advantage of this there is no need to do anything and you may disregard this email.

If you're still unclear as what Free-to-Play means to you, why not take a look at our Free-to-Play FAQ (http://cmail.codemasters.com/a/hBM0X7qB7bZSEB8UfbCDLbDgkAc/faq) on the website.

Click here to download the latest client.

Kind regards,
The LOTRO-Europe Team.

Yes, they said so officially on the forum. Preview Euro client needs to be scrapped.

By the way, it's a mess in game. I bought Moria a long time ago, but now it wants me to use "Turbine Points" to unlock it again  :awesome_for_real:

Yes, they said so officially on the forum. Preview Euro client needs to be scrapped.

By the way, it's a mess in game. I bought Moria a long time ago, but now it wants me to use "Turbine Points" to unlock it again  :awesome_for_real:

I'm not sure if anyone is able to answer this outside of Turbine, but how well was LOTRO travelling before it went F2P? The perception is that a sub title that starts offering a F2P option is in trouble and I'm wondering if this is the same of LOTRO.

The MMO I'm most confused about not going free to play is Planetside.

The MMO I'm most confused about not going free to play is Planetside.

and that might be the issue, they tried free Planetside for a year with in game adverts,

I believe it was around the time Mirkwood launched they divided your actions into 'fire when ready', 'fire soon'ish' and 'fire nao!' categories, which certainly helped.

Lorien rep grind stopped me logging in months ago, silly line in the sand to stop me exploring, ok well done it worked.

Are you sure you guys are playing the game properly? I thought you were supposed to buy your way past the tedious grind in the LOTRO store.

It's a bit like logging in only to do the Oracles dailies in Sholazar Basin.

Think of all the time you've saved yourself by purchasing those items that could normally only be attained by way of a tiresome, boring, irritating rep grind!  :awesome_for_real:

I have this issue with pretty much every non-WoW MMO.


In WoW, if I have an ability not on cooldown and I press that ability, that action happens instantly.

In LotRO (or every other MMO I've played), if I have an ability not on cool down and I press the ability, it fires off when it feels like it, a couple seconds after I've inputted my action. Feels like I am giving my characters suggestions and spectating rather then actually playing.