Re: LOTRO Goes Free to Play : Sept 10 (Sept 8 for Cool Kids)

[koro]

I absolutely hated the way they priced DDO points and the items within their stores because it followed the old Xbox Live Marketplace system of everything having odd price points, so you always had points left over.

Looking over the store, though, they seem to have largely worked out (through the use of "bonus points") the problem they had where you had things priced slightly higher than a tier of points, but significantly less than the next tier up, necessitating you buying, say, a $20/1200 point package alongside a $6.50/400 point package to get something that cost 1300 points.

[Sheepherder]

Or you could spend an extra bit and get another 600 points to use at your discretion.

"How much is that extra bit?"

"Three-fitty."

"GODDAMN YOU LOCH NESS MONSTER"

[Ollie]

Ah, capitalism, thou art a heartless bitch.

[Morat20]

All I can really think is "I tried LoTRO, and my computer barely ran it. So I stopped playing until I upgraded my PC. Which I never did. Crap".

Oh well, I guess I'll have a chance to dick around with it if I ever DO upgrade my PC without shelling out for a sub right away.

[Yegolev]

This bit maybe belongs more properly in the LOTRO forum but Jesus fuck, that long between content updates? One of the selling points for me was a steadier release of low key content than WoW.

I believe this changed with Moria.  There have been one or two things tossed in there, not counting the seasonal festivals, but seems like things are packed in with expansions.  New things show up each festival, and sometimes they even work.

[Mrbloodworth]

Full details of LOTRO cash shop items revealed <-- the title they have is misleading, its three items. But I know a number of people here are going to be quite excited as to what they are.

[Zetor]

Greater Tome of Grind Acceleration?  

Seriously though, this is looking pretty good imo. Convenience items but nothing earth-shattering.. I might hit up a few of those accelerating tomes at one point, time is money friend!

[Stabs]

Grind acceleration, stats boost, overland teleports in a game noted for tedious travel quests.

It will be tough to play Lotro and not succumb to temptation.

I suspect we're very close to what most of us would call earth-shattering items. Personally I think experience potions are game-changing, higher stats certainly are but these features creep in one by one without breaking the camel's back. DDO is now at a point where if you pimp with everything you get quite a different experience - double exp, +1 loot level, self-ress, extra shrines, mana refills - it's actually earth-shattering if you use everything. I find myself torn from awestruck admiration of the marketing-game design synthesis and a nervous fear that we're heading to a place where most games just won't appeal to me because I don't like continually pimping myself with small bonuses for small sums of real money. It's not the cost, I can't cope with grouping with slow people while my shop buffs are ticking down. Spontaneous unexpected mentions of "afk shower" or "afk dinner" mid-instance on my exp potion time is very bad for my stress levels.

Do we have information yet about what players will be able to do to gain Turbine Points through gameplay?

[Ingmar]

So 500/month 'free' from a sub is the equivalent of $7.50 worth of currency. Not terrible (particularly if you're on a lifetime sub.)

[Mrbloodworth]

If I start playing again, I will for dam sure use the slayer deed stuff. Quite a number of them I just ended up ignoring, as it never really impacted my progression.

[Zetor]

I think the only 'must have' slayer deeds are the racial ports, and those are not too obnoxious (something like 120 foozles I think?). Of course for a perfectionist looking inside a deed log and seeing 4325987 incomplete kill deeds probably triggers a Pavlovian reaction, which Turbine are now going to harness. 

There are some really annoying class deeds too (some of them you can macro or spam, like the 'use your cure disease 300 times' one), I wonder if they'll have tomes for those as well?

[Mrbloodworth]

Keep in mind, the stuff on those images are for sure place holders. If I get in the beta and there is no NDA, ill bring the info.

[Morat20]

I wish I knew what the hell you guys were talking about. For someone who has vague memories of LOTRO back when it first came out, and ate his graphics card and made his hamster-driven PC scream in agony and shame....

So, like, what's the end effect here? Coming into the game, cold, with a "I think I'll try this game, since I can trial it F2P" perspective?

[WayAbvPar]

If you have never played, you can download it and play the original game for free with some minor shackles (like inventory and amount of gold you can have). If you ever subscribed or bought a box, or ever buy something from the upcoming store, you get upgraded to premium, which takes a couple of the shackles off, or at least gives you some balm for the shackle wounds. if you subscribe monthly you get access to everything, plus get an allowance for store purchases monthly.

Trialling the F2P should be just fine, I would imagine. Most of the cockblocks won't hit you until higher levels or if you are an alt-oholic and need more than 3 low level characters.

[Stormwaltz]

More screenshots at Casual Stroll to Mordor.

[Yegolev]

Of course for a perfectionist looking inside a deed log and seeing 4325987 incomplete kill deeds probably triggers a Pavlovian reaction, which Turbine are now going to harness. 

This is me.  I'll have to use one of these to finish that damn bog-lurker deed in Haragmar... and I did the Angmar wargs (450) one with no problem.

[Modern Angel]

They cap out at 10, though. There's no need to go apeshit unless you find yourself at level 65 and a bunch of 8s across your screen when you bring them up. Not to mention there are plenty that you don't need as any given class.

Really, I'm not exactly irritated but that's a pretty lame replacement for adjusting deed grinds to work in tandem with your leveling adjustments as you move forward.

[Mrbloodworth]

More screenshots at Casual Stroll to Mordor.

Ah, a tidbit from the comments:

Looks like the Item descriptions in the third picture are actually from DDO Store items, lol. House Deneith for example.

Found a fancy quote:

Correct. There will be ways in game to earn various amounts of Turbine points. In theory, you could never spend a penny in the store but still acquire enough Turbine Points to purchase everything you would want. It would take a great deal of effort, but it would be possible.

In contrast, subscribers will be able to earn points in game plus they will be given an additional 500 points per month for being a subscriber.

[Yegolev]

They cap out at 10, though. There's no need to go apeshit unless you find yourself at level 65 and a bunch of 8s across your screen when you bring them up. Not to mention there are plenty that you don't need as any given class.

My OCD says otherwise, but yes, there's no reason to go around doing all the kill deeds.  I do it because I like to collect things, not because I have been indoctrinated to drive to max level as fast as possible or fiddle with half-percent PVP advantages in MMOs.  Also, I don't remember wiping and thinking "Man, if only I had a couple more levels in TRAIT, I'd have won."  I just like to collect things.

[Cheddar]

nevermind.

[Modern Angel]

My OCD says otherwise, but yes, there's no reason to go around doing all the kill deeds.  I do it because I like to collect things, not because I have been indoctrinated to drive to max level as fast as possible or fiddle with half-percent PVP advantages in MMOs.  Also, I don't remember wiping and thinking "Man, if only I had a couple more levels in TRAIT, I'd have won."  I just like to collect things.

Fair enough and tear it up. For me, though, the deed grinds are probably the most irritating part of the game for me at this point. It's not the system itself; I think the traits system is pretty keen, actually. It's that the number of monsters to kill/quests to do doesn't fit in with the post-leveling speed adjustment. Before I could get a good 7-8 across the board in stuff I need just in the course of normal play. Now that I'm leveling an alt for the first time in the new low level leveling paradigm I'm going to be lucky to have 3s where I need them.

[Ingmar]

If there's one in-game needed item that I do almost hope they sell (fixing the base system would be preferable obviously) it is the relic thingies that go into legendary weapons. The process for trading those up to higher tiers etc is just way beyond ridiculous grind-wise.

[Cheddar]

If there's one in-game needed item that I do almost hope they sell (fixing the base system would be preferable obviously) it is the relic thingies that go into legendary weapons. The process for trading those up to higher tiers etc is just way beyond ridiculous grind-wise.

lol, not if you skirmish!

[Stormwaltz]

If there's one in-game needed item that I do almost hope they sell (fixing the base system would be preferable obviously) it is the relic thingies that go into legendary weapons. The process for trading those up to higher tiers etc is just way beyond ridiculous grind-wise.

lol, not if you skirmish!

No. Even if you skirmish, the relic grind is stupid. I love LotRO, I love the guys who make it (and know some of them personally), but I'm still going to say that the relic grind is stupid.

After all this, plus general play from when Moria shipped, I've only made three level 7 relics.

[Cheddar]

No. Even if you skirmish, the relic grind is stupid. I love LotRO, I love the guys who make it (and know some of them personally), but I'm still going to say that the relic grind is stupid.

After all this, plus general play from when Moria shipped, I've only made three level 7 relics.

Hmmm.... I haven't had many issues getting relics, even without trying.

Do you level legendary items on the side then nuke them around 40-50?  I believe its 232 skirm marks or so for a decent XP boost and levels stuff lickety split. 

[Stormwaltz]

Do you level legendary items on the side then nuke them around 40-50?  I believe its 232 skirm marks or so for a decent XP boost and levels stuff lickety split.

I have three slots for leveling LIs. Usually I break them down at 11 (I'm told by number-crunchers that's the most efficient place to do it), but sometimes I let them go until 31.

[Cheddar]

Do you level legendary items on the side then nuke them around 40-50?  I believe its 232 skirm marks or so for a decent XP boost and levels stuff lickety split.

I have three slots for leveling LIs. Usually I break them down at 11 (I'm told by number-crunchers that's the most efficient place to do it), but sometimes I let them go until 31.

Yeah, I read the math behind it at some point.  Personally I just grab an extra LI, get it to 41ish, then nuke it.  Lots of good return and higher level runes.  With skirms it really does not take long.

[Soln]

most people seem to have a lot of trouble grinding an LI to Tier9.   You're claiming skirms are easier than deconstructing 100's of expendable LI's?  I thought that many skirms made your eyes bleed.

[Ingmar]

Hmmm.... I haven't had many issues getting relics, even without trying.

Getting relics, or getting *level 9* relics? The grind of trading them in to get up to the highest ones is what I'm talking about.

[Zetor]

Do you level legendary items on the side then nuke them around 40-50?  I believe its 232 skirm marks or so for a decent XP boost and levels stuff lickety split.

I have three slots for leveling LIs. Usually I break them down at 11 (I'm told by number-crunchers that's the most efficient place to do it), but sometimes I let them go until 31.

Yeah, I read the math behind it at some point.  Personally I just grab an extra LI, et it to 41ish, then nuke it.  Lots of good return and higher level runes.  With skirms it really does not take long.

Is it really that quick at max-level?

I went through level 48-60 using the starter LIs by constantly grouping with my guild (we basically did the entire moria expansion up to mid-lothlorien along with some skirms with rested xp... plenty of +itemxp quests) and had to burn quite a few xp runes to get it to level 30 (so I could get my relics back from it). This was basically two-and-a-half months of casual gameplay [1h/day] and my guildies' LIs were still in the mid-20s.

[Ollie]

I know this is a mile off the original thread topic and a better fit to the LotRO subforum, but since many people are complaining about T9 relics:

Personally, I've found that one of the quickest ways to get a leg up on the relic grind is to solo the first boss of Sword Halls (Urcheron) whenever you have 15 minutes or so to spare. The chest drops guaranteed T5 relic boxes, so you have a pretty decent pool after only a few runs. Pop in, kite the adds and whittle them down while removing the corruption from the boss, which gives you a nice fat HoT. Just avoid the fire; if it stacks, it packs a pretty big wallop. After killing the boss, simply loot the chest and run out. The gates come down and block you from re-entering, after which you can either go do something meaningful while waiting for the instance to reset, or abuse guildies to form a new party (and hence a new instance ID). Even if you don't have any guildies on-line, SH resets every hour anyway. Do a run at the end of every play session, and in a few weeks you'll be golden.

Grinding relic tiers is one of the most stupidly boring and pointless things in the whole game, at least in my mind. It makes the whole lottery aspect of LIs far too obvious. Luckily, for some classes T8s are actually a better fit than T9s, which makes the task marginally less tedious. If you don't mind a bit of repetition, soloing the first boss of SH beats the pants out of skirmishing when it comes to getting those top-tier relics.

[Soln]

Just read an interview with the Exec Producer: http://www.mordororbust.com/qa-lotro-executive-producer-kate-paiz/

I still don't understand the long-term sustainability behind this decision. Are they hurting for operating capital?  Do they need to make a stand against all the upcoming releases (e.g. SWTOR, WOW2, GW2)?

All personal opinion aside I thought that having a monthly fee + a sticky franchise would help retention.  Wouldn't going F2P just allow people to switch more easily?  I mean, how many people stay with a game just because they're already paying for it?   People take a looong time to quit a game no matter how much forum handwringing they do.

[Ingmar]

I'd hesitate to draw any conclusions about the larger market these days from this, but I find that more and more I have an easier time dropping pay games than free ones. I still play GW and LotRO now and again (LotRO is already 'free' for me in the sense that I paid it all up front with a lifetime sub) but if a new MMO launches and doesn't really grab me I drop it very quickly.

Really I think what makes people stick around with pay games has more to do with a perceived loss of all the "work" you put into your character than with a reluctance to stop paying for something you don't really want anymore. After spending X years and Y hours getting some dude up to Level Awesome it can become very hard to just walk away from all that.

Also, I always kind of felt burned when Blizzard would delete my Diablo 2 characters if I didn't log in for 3 months, but now that free games aren't pulling that sort of thing for the most part anymore (Kingdom of Loathing being an annoying exception) I think people are probably much more willing to put time and effort into them.

[Lantyssa]

All personal opinion aside I thought that having a monthly fee + a sticky franchise would help retention.  Wouldn't going F2P just allow people to switch more easily?  I mean, how many people stay with a game just because they're already paying for it?   People take a looong time to quit a game no matter how much forum handwringing they do.

While the not wanting to lose work is some incentive to not cancel, it's only one factor of many.  However, what a sub game has is pretty much what it's stuck with once launch settles.  Has there been any expansion or change which resulted in a huge jump in population after a few months?

Going free to play is like launching again, so that right there is a bonus for simply getting eyes to look at your project.  While there are a lot of "free loaders", they help keep their friends around because all of these games thrive due to social stickiness.  They might also make small purchases they may not have otherwise, and there's no feeling of "Why am I wasting $15 on this game?"  Of the paying players, they balance out the costs, or exceed them.

[Numtini]

I find free to play more sticky. It's easier to spark up the game out of mild boredom when it's free and then get drawn into spending cash on it than it is to require the cash up front.