Re: LOTRO Goes Free to Play : Sept 10 (Sept 8 for Cool Kids)

[Mrbloodworth]

The only ones that require "grind" are the factional ones, but I agree with your point. I never really did them myself.

[Sir T]

$1:50 for an hours use? Not a chance in hell. That would add up so fast its just not funny

[Zetor]

150 points unlocks fast travel for an hour. It's ridiculous. It's like they're planning to make money off the shittiness of the game rather than fix it.

So after looking last night. This isn't the case.

You do not need to use Turbine Points to purchase travel as a VIP (subscriber, lifetimer). If you do not currently have access to a swift travel route (reputation to low for example) you may use your points to unlock that ability for a period of time.

The only ones that do not have Swift travel are F2p people. The ability you buy (Freedom costs a buck-o-five) allows you to ignore ALL prerequisites of ANY swift travel location for an hour.

So, for instance if you have not been to the required stable at the other end, you can't use the swift route, buy the shop item, and you can, with the added bonus of now you don't have to run/ride out there to get the stable. Its actually quite a time saver, for a buck fifty.

I replied to this in the LOTRO forum, but basically the relevant part is what I bolded in your post. F2P and premium players (aka non-subscribers) are getting an extra truckload of downtime... do you think joe bob will run to the cash shop when he discovers he can get to bree from torin's hall faster than the 40 minutes of slow travel time if he pays 1.5$ every time he wants to go to the craft guild hall / etc (I can't think of a situation where you'd need to use more than a couple of fast horse rides in an hour, so you'd be wasting most of your $), or will he just shrug and abandon the game?

[Paelos]

$1.50 an hour is laughably overpriced for anything in the MMOG market. ANYTHING.

[Ingmar]

Maybe it will make him just decide to subscribe. 

[caladein]

I've said a few times that no swift travel is a gamebreaker for serious play, but thinking about I'm not so sure.  (The unlock is stupid and really the answer just becomes at a point: subscribe.)

Ost Guruth is probably the first quest hub that's sufficiently far away from a town to even have a Swift Travel and its level locked above where you start going there.  Going Ost Guruth <-> Forsaken Inn <-> South Bree is rather unterrible by later standards.

Swift Travel doesn't do anything to save you from the tedium that is Book 4 as none of the Trollshaws quest hubs have Swift Travel.

Really, I don't see no Swift Travel as a serious issue until after Book 6 (assuming you're doing your 40s in Angmar) as all of Eastern Angmar is designed around Swift Travel routes.  Aughaire and Gabilshathûr (the two Southern quest hubs) are only linked by Swift Travel, and there are no normal horse routes to or out of Gath Forthnír (the Council of the North base).

This is in contrast to Eregion which has all its Swift Travel deed gated but also provides normal routes in addition to Swift Travel ones.

[Soln]

sadly, Swift Travel (if we are talking opening horse routes for insta ports and not racial ports) are invaluable in Moria and Mirkwood. 

[HaemishM]

Swift Travel doesn't do anything to save you from the tedium that is Book 4 as none of the Trollshaws quest hubs have Swift Travel.

That's one of the reasons I HATED Trollshaws, and I was a hunter. I can only imagine non-hunters being driven insane by that zone.

[Yegolev]

I have long since come to terms with the "I'm stranded in the woods for my whole play session" nature of this game.  But of course I'm good with the slow-pacing and worldy thing and whatnot.  I do love me some fast travel, though, and I agree $1.50 per hour is retarded.  I might pay $1.50 for a permanent recall skill.

[Soln]

ok now having been in the game, and then quitting again, I understand the froth.  Yes I have no lifetime sub.


the idea of having to pay either $1.50 per swift travel OR having a monthly sub just to get the fuck around is ridiculous.  For those who don't know, it's the WoW equivalent of playing without griffons or ships.  No insta travel (except /recall to 1 or 2 spots only).


I had no problem paying $15/month or whatever it was before F2P, but if all I get now for a sub is the privilege of not playing Lord of the Runs...  I mean, how the fuck can you play WITHOUT ports?  Presumable subbing again would net me the wardrobe etc. and whatever new content they eventually create.  But any new content is now way down the road.  This seems like a complete cockblock.  Am I incorrect? The whole F2P thing after awhile didn't seem that bad to me.  This was a surprise...

[Zetor]

I had a vision briefly about some enterprising dude with a huge PC/server farm getting around this: create a bunch of captains on free accounts and park them at various swift travel spots on all servers, then set up elaborate macros and lua mods to automate the "invite person who sends me a tell, summon person, accept tip" process. Then I remembered that captains don't get their "summon" skill before level 40.  

[Soln]

yeah this is just greasy, and asking GLFF and checking their forums other people are also confused.
 

I mean, charge me to access Enedwaith or the new Classic Instance panel or whatever.  Charge me by the hour to get to content I already own?   Gamebreaker sadly. 

[Reg]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who has a problem with the swift travel stupidity. I was starting to think I was crazy game-hating guy just being negative for no good reason. 

[Soln]

ok I'm very confused. Former monthly subscribers can resub, but they need to buy old content packs over again? Is that correct?


Suddenly SOE's EQ2 F2P model is not looking that complicated after all.  No mixing and matching of old and new folks, where some old subs are grandfathered in while others are not (and may have to pay more?).

[caladein]

Me, the previous page (n.b. access meaning quests):

The breakdown on zones is:

Everyone has access to Bree, Ered Luin, and the Shire.
If you buy (or previously bought) Moria and/or Mirkwood, you have access to those zones forever.
If you're subscribed, you have access to all of Eriador.

If you aren't a VIP (i.e. a subscriber/lifer), you need to buy quest packs for the Eriador zones as all you have by default are the three starter zones and the book/class quests.

Again, if you're a subscriber/lifer: quest packs and skirmish access are part of your subscription.

If you aren't going to resubscribe, then yes, you need to buy quest packs for whatever zones (that aren't Bree, Ered Luin, or the Shire) you want to do non-book/class quests or instances in.  You then have access to them across your account forever.  In this context, the two expansions function as quest pack bundles.

[Numtini]

That's really pretty obnoxious.

[Njal]

I don't think the quest pack purchase is obnoxious. However the swift travel for $1.50 for 90 minutes is majorly douchetastic.

[Xeyi]

When I stopped playing this last my characters were all 20-35 ish.  It seems pretty harsh that I can't really do anything at all without paying for an unlock right off the bat.

edit - it seems that I would have Moria open as I bought that expansion, but none of my characters are high enough to go there 

[Modern Angel]

I'm pretty split on the SoA content now being divvied up into quest packs. I understand the complaints and the shock of coming back to find you can't access that stuff. But really, they have to offer something substantive in the store to make money. If you've not been subbed for over a year I don't think it's entirely fair to suddenly want something for free you didn't even remember you had two weeks ago. Grandfathering the has to be nearly a million people who have come and gone just isn't going to fly.

And how much are quest packs going for? Five bucks? Ten? Let's err on the high side and go ten. For thirty to forty bucks, two to three months of sub money, you get access to a 1-50 leveling experience for all your characters forever. That's not too goddamned bad and I'm debating racking up the points with my sub over the next six to eight months to eventually phase out my sub.

[Zetor]

Yep, I really have no problems with the quest packs being pay-only; it's a one-time payment, I can live with that. Actually I'm ok with 95% of the cash shop, but the remaining 5% (swift travel) makes me want to stab people.

[Modern Angel]

The swift travel is lunacy. Something not mentioned is the virtue grind speed up available in the store. That irritates me. It's an acknowledgment of the issues with trait kill deeds, that you will almost never get them in the course of normal leveling, coupled with an attempt to actively cash in on questionable design.

[Nebu]

When I stopped playing this last my characters were all 20-35 ish.  It seems pretty harsh that I can't really do anything at all without paying for an unlock right off the bat.

edit - it seems that I would have Moria open as I bought that expansion, but none of my characters are high enough to go there 

I had 4 toons get to 30-35 and quit all of them.  I recently decided to give the game another try and should tell you that I'm finding the 40-55 span quite enjoyable.  You just have to treat the game as an adventuring RPG rather than the race-to-cap mentality engrained in us by WoW and EQ.  Reading the quests and taking a more RP approach has given a lot of life to this title for me. Playing it solely as a game is something better suited to WoW.  WoW is better in terms of gaming mechanics but lotro is much better in terms of immersion and character building beyond gear. 

[Paelos]

How long does the whole shebang take right now to download, patch, and get ready to go. Assuming I'm using a solid broadband connection is this worth doing tonight, or just leaving on tomorrow while I'm gone all day watching football?

[Mrbloodworth]

The Lord of the Rings Online - Free to Play - Trailer

[Soln]

This doesn't make any sense.  I made fun of SOE for their FTP model but then after actually trying it, EQ2 Extended is far more fair and compelling an offer.  

Why would you punish your former monthly subscribers?  Why not make it easier for them to return?  After all, isn't part of this new business model to get old friends back together to go at new content and revamped instances etc. with the joy of a large new population to depend upon?  It's easier to get to the content, and there's tons of new and old people back to play with.  No friction.  But this is not what's happening.

I have no problem paying a monthly subscription fee.  But to make me pay the *same* fee again per month and then charge me on top of that for content I bought already in 2006/2007...   Why would I do that when it's clear I will also have to pay for any new zones and expansions down the road on top of my sub?  What does my monthly fee pay for?  And why not charge me now for Enedwaith or the new classic instances panel?


Turbine is a very strange company

they do this kind of shit all the time. Turbine consistently introduces new cool features that other companies copy, but they turn up the constraints to 11 and then spend the next year or more afterwards tweaking the features downwards.  Radiance, Legendary Items, Skirmishes... this is the company after all that was revamping combat for awhile every 6-8 months, and upending crafting -- maybe every 4 months?   This stupid gouge will alienate Founders and recent monthly subs and very probably Turbine will do some "Welcome Back Pack" to entice those people to rejoin in a few months.  Why they don't do it now is beyond me.

[Mrbloodworth]

I have no problem paying a monthly subscription fee.  But to make me pay the *same* fee again per month and then charge me on top of that for content I bought already in 2006/2007...

What?

If you sub, everything is unlocked. If you choose not to sub, you can buy quest packs that are yours forever. There is no sub + buy quest packs.

[Lantyssa]

Let me ask it this way:  I bought Mines of Moria.  What does it actually give me besides two new classes?

[Nebu]

Let me ask it this way:  I bought Mines of Moria.  What does it actually give me besides two new classes?

A place to level/explore from 50-65.  Legendary items and other new stuff.

Wiki link here.

[Soln]

I have no problem paying a monthly subscription fee.  But to make me pay the *same* fee again per month and then charge me on top of that for content I bought already in 2006/2007...

What?

If you sub, everything is unlocked. If you choose not to sub, you can buy quest packs that are yours forever. There is no sub + buy quest packs.

BW, are you sure?  Can you show me where?  Honest question because I'm very confused and so are a lot of people it seems on the forums. 

Is it just the case people want to play for free and some of the old content is not available?

http://www.lotro.com/betasignup/vipchart.html
http://www.lotro.com/free.php

[Numtini]

What gripes me about the SoA areas being locked is that if you start now, they will cost you whatever say it's $40. If you started at launch, you've already paid $40 or whatever for a box that included those levels and now you're paying again. I can understand the concept that I had access to those earlier for subscription and all that, but it doesn't change the emotional reaction to the expense and limiting the emotional reaction to expense is how you make money on a cash shop game--boil the frog slowly so it doesn't jump.

[Ingmar]

I have no problem paying a monthly subscription fee.  But to make me pay the *same* fee again per month and then charge me on top of that for content I bought already in 2006/2007...

What?

If you sub, everything is unlocked. If you choose not to sub, you can buy quest packs that are yours forever. There is no sub + buy quest packs.

BW, are you sure?  Can you show me where?  Honest question because I'm very confused and so are a lot of people it seems on the forums.  

Is it just the case people want to play for free and some of the old content is not available?

http://www.lotro.com/betasignup/vipchart.html
http://www.lotro.com/free.php

BW is correct, on my lifetime sub there is no missing content, and lifetime and subscription people have the same access to everything. I mean, yes, you have to buy the expansions separately, but that was true before too.

What gripes me about the SoA areas being locked is that if you start now, they will cost you whatever say it's $40. If you started at launch, you've already paid $40 or whatever for a box that included those levels and now you're paying again. I can understand the concept that I had access to those earlier for subscription and all that, but it doesn't change the emotional reaction to the expense and limiting the emotional reaction to expense is how you make money on a cash shop game--boil the frog slowly so it doesn't jump.

Eh, not really. You paid $40 for the right to pay $15/month to access that content. That's still true, only now nobody has to pay the $40.

[Mrbloodworth]

I have no problem paying a monthly subscription fee.  But to make me pay the *same* fee again per month and then charge me on top of that for content I bought already in 2006/2007...

What?

If you sub, everything is unlocked. If you choose not to sub, you can buy quest packs that are yours forever. There is no sub + buy quest packs.

BW, are you sure?  Can you show me where?  Honest question because I'm very confused and so are a lot of people it seems on the forums. 

Is it just the case people want to play for free and some of the old content is not available?

http://www.lotro.com/betasignup/vipchart.html
http://www.lotro.com/free.php

I'm 98% positive.

[Soln]

my apologies folks -- Patience just confirmed this on a thread.  I guess I was thrown by coming in the game without a sub and seeing the lack of swift travel.  Also, the VIP/Premium chart wasn't clear to that I could access the SoA zones but not the quest content.  Seems a number of folks aren't groking this either and the having-to-purchase-SoA-again meme is out there.  Thanks.

[Kitsune]

Let me ask it this way:  I bought Mines of Moria.  What does it actually give me besides two new classes?

Grain of salt because I'm just starting too, but my understanding is:

Level cap increase to 65.
Expansion areas unlocked.
Two more character slots.

In addition, by firing up the Moria game code, you get a month of VIP status, and even when it expires you're left with:

500 turbine points.
Unlimited gold capacity.
Two more bags for inventory.
The opportunity to get fast mounts without buying the riding skill for real money in the store.

These extra perks only apply for characters that were active while you were a VIP; characters you make later don't get the goods.  Plus the riding skill only comes free if you do the quest while still in VIP status.  So advice I'm seeing a lot of is to hold off on activating your Moria code until you have characters at or near level 20, which is the point at which they can do the quest for the riding skill.

Also, apparently VIPs have access to 'special' stuff in the cash shop.  Anything you buy while VIP won't expire when you drop out of VIP status, so if there's something great in the shop that's only accessible to VIPs, buy it during your VIP month and you'll still have it later.

[Mrbloodworth]

http://lotro.mmorsel.com/2010/07/how-free-is-free.html