f13.net

Here we go!

The Schedules have been released and it's only one more day until the "2010 NFL Draft".

Also, no comments on the McNabb trade?!

Edit by Trippy: Fixed your bizarre title

Naw - it's a weird trade by Philly, but they seem to have written this year off already as a rebuilding year.    But really, The Onion said it pretty much the best.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/donovan-mcnabb-id-like-to-thank-the-ungrateful-ove,17235/

Schedule this year.  Fucking brutal opening for the Ravens on the road (with the exception of Cleveland in Week 3  :grin: ), but Flacco almost seems to plays better on the road than at home, so it's not as bad as it could be.  I expect Baltimore heads to explode though since the Ravens were given four nationally televised games this year, and nobody here deals with compliments like that very well.  

The McNabb trade is a direct result of Philly fans being the biggest fucking douchebags on the goddamn planet. It does nothing to help their team this year, IMO. The end result will probably be a diluted, mediocre NFC East that Dallas will run away with before shitting the bed in the playoffs. Washington will win about 2 more games, maybe 3, Philly will lose 1 more than last year and the Giants are still the Giants who can be world beaters one week and pussies the next. The Philly fans have been shitting on McNabb for years despite the fact they'd be nowhere without him. Kolb may be good, he may eventually be better, but he's going to have some serious growing pains first. Hopefully they won't turn on him like they did McNabb.

Green Bay's schedule looks tough, but considering their record, I'd expect that. Of course, if Favre retires and Minnesota is left to rely on Tavaris Jackson or Sage Rosenfels, well, their schedule gets a lot easier.  :grin:

The new "powerhouse" division might just be the AFC East. The Jets have made a fuckload of good personnel moves this offseason - Holmes and Tomlinson were both good additions to areas where they were already strong. That receiver corps isn't elite, but it's damn good when you consider how good their run game is. Sanchez isn't going to have many excuses this year - if his accuracy improves, look out. Miami meanwhile got better by subtraction, getting rid of Ginn, Jr. and letting Jason Taylor & Joey Porter go while picking up Brandon Marshall. With that run game and better receivers, they will be a tough out. New England hasn't moved forward or backwards that I can tell but they are still New England. Buffalo is the bitch of that division again.

Of course, the draft could change all that. I'm really hoping the Packers draft an offensive lineman or a running back worth a shit.

Pete Carroll.

 :cry2:

And in other news (and the NFL's desperate hope that this gets buried by the draft), Ben's suspension got announced today.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bal-ben-roethlisberger-suspended-six-games-0421,0,368104.story

Just as an FYI- I will post a video of me burning my Seahawks jersey in front of their sign if they swing a trade for Raplisberger.

He'll look perfect in a Raiders uniform.  Too perfect to happen, probably.

Yes he will. Al Davis doesn't give a fuck how many co-eds he rapes as long as he plays on Sunday. Which is why Carroll will bring him here and make me find new hobbies on autumn Sundays.

Hope for the best because raking leaves sucks ass.  :why_so_serious:

I am looking forward to St Louis taking Suh and sending the entire draft burning into the ground with the WTF scenarios.

Dudebro.  The NFC East is clearly the best division in football. 

I've heard that for years. It isn't true. There was one year the NFC East was the best division, the year the Giants won the Super Bowl. Last year? Hell no. Washington has sucked for years, and the Giants were godawful last year. I actually thought the AFC South was the best division last year once Vince Young started winning games for the Titans again. None of the teams were pushovers after that point. The NFC North was a close second, IMO.

 Washington hasn't "sucked for years."  They were good under Gibbs.  Under Zorn, they've been average at worst.  They certainly have one of the best defenses in football.  Their main problem is at QB.  Last year they lost a slew of games by just a few points.  Dallas is a powerhouse.  Philly is very good.  The Giants are also very solid.  You have to realize that finishing 8-8 doesn't mean you're a terrible team.  Especially when you play in the NFC East and you have no divisional cakewalks.  

I mean what exactly is your point anyway?  That the NFC East is the second best division in football?  Sure, ok.  I don't know anyone who knows anything about football who thinks the AFC South is a better division than the NFC East.  

Edit:  And I'll just add that the fact that you think the NFC North (home to the Lions and Bears) is the 2nd best division in football means that you're either wildly misinformed or we're subscribing different meaning to the term "best division in football."

Rumor has it Steelers have begun contacting teams to trade Ben Roethlisberger for a top 10 pick. At least one team considering it...

I think they'd have to get more than a top ten pick for him.  Unless the Rooney's just really can't stomach being around a rapist anymore.

Considering I live in mulletland, talk radio here is all about the steelers and raiders trying to make a trade happen. Maybe the raiders 1st rounder and Gradkowski considering he's a local boy.

I'm sorry, I lost the rest of your post in the laughter. At best, they were adequate under Gibbs mainly because of their defense - they certainly didn't scare anyone. The Giants last year were 8-8, sure - but they were a TERRIBLE 8-8. They could have easily lost another 2-4 games, their defense was fucktastically bad most games and Eli lost the plot when he got injured. In what world is Dallas a powerhouse? They have a decent pass rush, a good QB whose 1 career playoff win was against a Philly team in a slump and a pourous offensive line. I'd give even odds on any team in last year's AFC South vs. any team in the NFC East from last year.

Yes, the NFC North had the Lions, but the Bears were a better team than Washington, and both Green Bay and Minnesota were better teams than anybody in the NFC East. I'd even rank Arizona's team last year as even with the Cowboys and Eagles - good teams with exploitable flaws. Now without Warner, I wouldn't say that about Arizona. And without McNabb, I put Philly a little higher than Washington - maybe on a par with Chicago or Carolina or Atlanta.

The NFC is New Orleans & Minnesota (if Favre returns) followed by Green Bay & Dallas with everyone else shaking out somewhere in the remaining mix unless there are some serious changes and fantastic draft picks coming up.

And if the Raider get Rapelisberger or even if the Steelers dump him on someone else, the Ravens can go ahead and sign their name to that division.

Wow.  You're so clueless about the NFL I'm not going to even waste time arguing with you.  It's cool that you're a casual fan.

Getting Boldin pretty much took care of that. Steelers have been doing it with defense and smoke and mirrors for years now. Baltimore has always had a good defense, and their offense is going to be A LOT better with a more experienced QB and RB, and a nice new WR to catch the ball.


You would know that if you were a REEL FAN  :uhrr:

You think Washington didn't suck under Gibbs. You are delusional.

I'd like to hear your expert opinion.  It's easy to be critical when you don't offer a counterpoint. 

Like I tell my students: there's nothing beneficial in saying that I suck unless you tell me why. 

On what specifically?  The Skins went to the playoffs 2/4 years under Gibbs.  They won a playoff game.  Were they favorites to win the Superbowl?  No. They had a great defense and a solid power running game.  They struggled at the QB position.  But to say as Haemish does, that they "sucked for years" and to try to laugh me out of the thread when I said they were good under Gibbs is ignorant.  Actually, almost everything Haemish says is ignorant, but I digress.


Edit:  Anyway, my overarching point is that people on the internet can talk about things they don't know anything about with the utmost authority, and people will believe them.  The only problem with this strategy is that no matter how stridently you argue you will only ever convince those who are similarly clueless.  I'm sure I could spend the rest of my life arguing about the NFL on the internet.  The problem is that even if I win I lose.  I've only convinced people that don't know anything in the first place.  Sure, it's a copout.  So sue me. 

Both of Gibbs' playoff appearances were as wild cards (10-6 and 9-7 seasons) and the one playoff game they won against Tampa Bay set a record for fewest offensive yards gained in a playoff victory. Yes, they had pretty good defenses and decent running games during those years. They were hardly good teams, however.

You consider Dallas a powerhouse, yet they've also only won 1 playoff game in forever, and it was against an Eagles team that had only needed one win to potentially knock the Cowboys out of the playoffs but instead lost and barely made it in as a wild card. New Orleans was a powerhouse last year. Minnesota was a powerhouse. Everyone else in the league, including the Colts? Not powerhouses. There were some good teams (Colts, Chargers, Cowboys, Packers) and some hot-cold teams (Ravens, Jets, Cardinals) but the powerhouses played in the NFC Championships.

EDIT: As an aside, to compare the Gibbs' Redskins teams to another team that sucked despite making the playoffs, they reminded me of the Baltimore Ravens under Belichek - great defense, great running game, shit passing game under a succession of mediocre to bad QB's. They made the playoffs, but they still sucked because they never had the stuff to make it very far in the playoffs. They didn't scare the good teams. They just happened to suck less than other teams that REALLY sucked.

Isn't this really just a fight over the fact that Haemish says 'sucks' and means 'mediocre'?

Surely we can come up with better grounds for a flame war.

Yeah, you nancies shut up and watch my Browns take the AFC north thru the back door.  :why_so_serious:

Fuck I hate my hometown...  :oh_i_see:

The "NFC East is the bomb" concept is a hangover from the stretch in the 80s and early 90s when the division won 8 out of 14 superbowls.  I must be old because when I hear people talking about Gibbs' teams sucking I ask myself "then how did he win 3 Superbowls with them"?

Whether or not they are the absolute best is almost irrelevant.  They're in the discussion.  I'm not arguing against people who think the NFC East is very good but not quite the best.

I wasn't talking about Gibbs' Super Bowl teams. Those were great fucking teams, and yes, the NFC East was a monster then. I'm talking about his second stint.

The net result of parity this decade has meant that there are at most 3-4 great teams a year, 4-6 mediocre teams that suck when compared to the best teams of the league and then the real cesspools like the 0-16 Lions or the Raiders. Mediocrity sucks.  :drill:

The NFC isn't the best anymore, and this is coming from a Dallas fan. The reason they get credit is because they are the most interesting division in the NFC, with the biggest fan bases in the country. In terms of sports towns, it's tough to rival New York, Dallas, Philly, and Washington in fans.

I figured as much, but it just sorta made me chuckle. Everything since Daniel Snyder took over has been shit.

I agree with this they are mostly a reflection of NY media market and good storylines + Dallas Cowboys are always relevant even when they aren't.  Don't forget that TO was part of the NFC East during the ESPN witch hunt years.  All that said the idea that the NFC North has ever been the best division in the NFL in the last however years is fucking retarded.  I'm with Duse on that one.

Best teams in NFC North Vikes w/ Favre otherwise random Bears years or Packers by default and they haven't been scary in for fucking ever.

Best teams in the NFC East is shared by the years the Giants defense was awesome and Eli wasn't shitting the bed and oh yeah all those years the Eagles won the NFC.

That isn't even close.

Worst team in the NFC North Lions, worst team in football.

Worst team in the NFC East Redskins except on years where one of the other teams imploded.  Chances are though the worst team in the NFC East was never more then 2 wins outside of a wild card spot.  Can't say that about the fucking Lions can you.

That is a stupid fucking comparison and the only reason people are failing to point that out is its Haem versus Duse.

Yep, Lions suck. The Packers have returned to respectability. But I was specifically talking about this past year and the upcoming year as to the NFC North's status. You take Favre out of Minnesota last year and 1) that division is a cakewalk for the Pack and 2) that division is probably third from the bottom in shittiness (followed by the AFC West and the worst of the worst, the NFC West). If Favre doesn't return, the NFC North will be a shitty division that should be a cakewalk for the Pack. But last year did have Favre, and it did have a team that could have gotten to the Super Bowl and a wild card team that could have caused problems for any team in the league offensively.

ESPN likes to trumpet the NFC East as the best division because of the huge media markets involved, but it just isn't true. The AFC South didn't have a bad team from top to bottom once the Titans started winning again and yes, I'm including the Texans and the Jags. Despite their records, I think anyone of them could hang with any of the NFC East teams. The AFC East wasn't bad either in that regard - even shitty Buffalo gave New Orleans fits (Saints only scored 16 points and barely won while Washington should have beat the Saints but didn't, and gave up over 30 points).

I think old Al is going to crack and take Tebow with the 8th pick. Imagine the image for a second, Tebow and Davis shaking hands at the first Oakland Raiders press conference. What would that do to the fabric of time and space?

I would die laughing before I ever got to witness it.

I have no faith in Carroll not to fuck this up completely. My three worst nightmare scenarios-

1) He trades one or both 1st round picks for Rapelisburger
2) He drafts Tim Tebow
3) He drafts Clausen without trading down and getting more picks.

If Suh or McCoy don't make it to 6 (fat chance there), I would like to see Berry at 6 and then Derrick Morgan at 14. Pimp out the defense, get the home crowd roaring, and hope you can patch up the offense as you go.

He had been fired before the team became the Ravens, and his Browns were never very good, defensively or otherwise.

I'm stuck here twiddling my thumbs, hoping Major Wright falls to #75.  The Bears find a starting FS in rounds 3-5 or they are doomed.

I assume you mean "keep" the home crowd roaring, as 10 consecutive points by the opponents seems to shut that place down.   :awesome_for_real:

The NFC East argument is obviously subjective.  My opinion is very biased, considering I am a Philly die-hard. I think it is obvious that they weren't the strongest division last year (I would say AFC South), but they are ALWAYS in the top 3 which leads to the year-to-year proclamations.  

I don't think we should be talking about the NFC North though.  They were a bit stronger last year, but if you match them up in round-robin I still think the NFC East takes 60-70% of those games.  I think that the black-and-blue division is definitely getting better with the exception of Chicago.  I watched the majority of the Lions games this year (just because they are local and you gotta cheer for them as well) and I am impressed by some of talent in that division now (Rodgers, Stafford, Calvin Johnson, Peterson, Harvin..).  Having Detroit and a weakening Chicago twice a year on the schedule inflates Minnesota and Green Bay a bit.  

I loved watching Minnesota decimate the Cowboys this year though :drill: and they definitely earned top-billing in the NFC this year.

Just anxiously awaiting the draft now....less than an hour to go. The draft has become one of my favourite sporting events of the year. I am hoping the Eagles make a move for safety Eric Berry.  Kansas City may take him, but if he slides past them I wouldn't be surprised to see the Eagles move.  Eagles drafts are usually boring but safe (OLs in the first round) but having moved to take Maclin last year shows a bit more aggression from the front office.  The new GM (Howie Roseman) has already shown some balls for the ever-conservative eagles with the McNabb shocker this year.  Time will tell on that decision though, I have no idea what to say about it especially when the Eagles face McNabb twice a year now.

Heh. I am guessing you were in the beer line for the brief few moments we had to cheer about  :heartbreak:

Yeah, that'll happen.  :oh_i_see:

Tebow to Denver. Not a bad choice actually, given what they actually needed, which was pretty much nothing.

I don't know if Tebow will evolve into an NFL quarterback.  All signs point to no.  But I don't think you can write it off yet.

The thing about Tebow is that he just comes off like a douche bag.  It makes it really easy to not like him.  I can see a personality like his working in college with a bunch of kids.  But aside from questions about his physical ability fitting into the NFL mold, I kind of have this question in the back of my mind whether highly paid professional athletes will buy into what he sells.  If I'm a Denver Bronco, right now I'm thinking, "Oh great, a circus is coming to town and we have to deal with this guy on the field and off for the next six months."  I'm tired of him and he's not even there yet.

I heard this anecdote on the radio.  It was at whatever written test they give out at or before the NFL Combine.  The instructor was handing out the no. 2 pencils or whatever, and asking if anyone had any questions before we begin.  Tebow apparently raises his hand and says, "Do you mind if I lead us in a prayer before we start."  And one of the other players anonymously shouted, "Man, shut the fuck up."

I just don't see his act playing in the NFL.  Of course if he gets in there and lights it up, then my dreams of Tebow schadenfreude are crushed.

I'm pretty sure people were chanting tebow sucks when he was drafted.   Also a 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks seems a bit much for tebow, I have trouble believing he wasn't going to be there in the second.

He is a QB from Florida.

That is all the measure you need to know how well he will do in the NFL.

From some google searching:

And Grossman was reviled in Chicago.  Like he was teh debil.

Damn. I meant Billick. Great defense, mediocre offense at best.

EDIT: Forgot the draft started tonight. Tebow in Denver? Sounds like someone wants to run the fucking Wildcat. Yay. Didn't they already get another veteran QB? They'd probably have done better with Claussen if they were drafting a guy to be a QB. And yeah, I'm sick of the Tebow Kool-Aid too. I'm happy enough with Green Bay's first pick, an OT who ESPN says will probably be better suited as a right tackle. He can't be any worse than the other non-ancient options the Pack has at tackle. Maybe they'll get a decent running back in the 2nd round.

Lot of defensive players and offensive linemen taken in the first round.

Yea my prayers have finally been answered this year when the 49ers used two first round picks on a LT and a big ol' Samoan beefcake Guard.  Offensive linemen's value really can't be underestimated.  And they've dicked around with mid round picks in these positions with a couple exceptions for years.  It drives me insane.  If you draft a rookie quarterback, then you should be drafting linemen to grow up with him.  If you're not, you wasted a pick on a quarterback who will get destroyed and be afraid to sit in the pocket.  See:  Alex Smith.

Unless you absolutely are in dire need of a player at a skill position, the first round is only for trades and trench players. Anything else will get you mocked when the coin flip comes up bust.

Really, really happy with the Niners draft, although they didn't need to trade up so we're out a 4th rounder for no real good reason.

I don't even care about the 4th round, or the whole rest of the draft.  They've accomplished their mission.  Hell, if they spend the rest of the picks on the O line, I'll be happy.  They can just give the ball to Gore, and plow their way to victory.  Although, they can probably use some depth in their defensive backfield.

Also, you're a Niner fan?  For some reason in my mind I thought you were European.

Nope, Bay Area native, Cal grad, etc etc.

Not sure about Williams at 4 with Okung still there. I guess Williams fits better with Shanny's style, but still. Also, what the fuck Jacksonville... at least the Raiders didn't reach too far this year so I guess the Jags had to take up the slack.

While back at the Justice League, I am guessing Haden was the best corner so the Browns took him, but there seems to be a bigger need for Thomas at safety since KC fucked up the rotation. I am not saying its a bad pick for my home team, but given you just picked up Shelton, I would have thought the second best (and not by that much) safety on the board would have outweighed the best corner on the board. Can't fault them for having two shut down corners now, IF Haden can keep up in the pro game.

I now have a new reason to hate Dallas.  Not because I have my panties all in a bunch over not getting Dez Bryant, but now I've had to listen to fucking dipshit fans whine all god damn morning about how the Ravens didn't trade up to get him.  With FIVE fucking picks, only one being in the first round, I'd love to find out how the fuck they were thinking we were moving up without completely fucking ourselves over.  

Dez Bryant is going to be a huge bust. It is crazy taking dipshits like that with first round picks when you have Sheriff Goodell running the league.

Why would the Ravens need a guy like Bryant? Boldin is going to draw so many double teams that they could draft a 7th round guy and he'll still get a decent number of catches. Their first game against the Steelers will be during Big Ben's suspension, so they can probably pencil in 3 sure victories (that game and the 2 against Cleveland) and maybe more with the games against the Bengals.

Having looked at Bulaga a bit, I'm even more happy with him for the Packers. Big motherfucker with good technique who is used to midwestern weather? I don't even care if he plays right or left tackle, he'll still be a vast improvement. I really hope they get a good corner, running back and defensive end in the draft, then go for more O Line and defensive backfield depth.

...and queue the "we'd have taken him in the 1st" press conference... Check!

Seriously, this never works the way I want it to, so naturally I'm assuming this won't work.

Good drafts by Seattle and the Niners so far, just on college pedigrees.  Never quite works out all the way, though.

Why on earth does cleveland go for two injury prone players in the 2nd round. Ward and not Mays? wtf?

I am mildly excited about Colt though... mildly.

Kind of amazing Mays lasted til the 49ers pick in the 2nd round but I'm not complaining.

I feel sorry for Jahvid Best, he is going to die. :(

Two Utes go in the second round!

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/Abagadro/fg3-sized.jpg)

Did you say two Utes?

I hope that by drafting a USC safety they can somehow interest Lott to come back in any capacity what-so-ever and help him develop.  Even if it's just a couple workouts to see how a real champion prepares.  I guess they're not short on looming intimidating presences in the locker room these days, but still.

Also, I totally called that pick.

Carroll trades a 4th for Lendale White.  Nice move!

Did someone lock Al Davis in a closet or something? The Raiders weren't retarded this year.

They still managed to draft the fastest guy in the draft and the unofficial "combine winner" in the process.  But not with their first few picks, which was impressive restraint.

It was pretty cool to see Earl Mitchell go in the third round. Guy started out as a fullback/TE and ended up as a DT at Arizona (he was also my dad's favorite player  :drill:).  Great run stuffer and got a lot of important sacks late in games.  It'll be interesting to see how he does on that Texans line with Mario Williams and company.

edit: Yah, it looks like they reanimated Al at about the fourth round.

Raider trade for Campbell which immediately makes them a better team - and yes, that is as sad as it sounds. I suppose that means the Jamarcus Russell era is officially over. Good trade for Lendale White as well - ole Chunk ought to be able to be the feature back I expected him to be out of college. He won't be as productive as Chris Johnson, but he'll be better than the Seahawks current options. Hell, I wish Green Bay would have traded for him. The RB we drafted sounds decent, but he's built more like Ryan Grant than a pound it out type of runner. And the Packers failed to pick a cornerback, choosing to draft a DT they probably didn't need instead.

I am shocked by the quality of everything Carroll did over the weekend. I hated everything he did before the draft, but I can't complain about anything since. 3 immediate starters in the first 3 picks, and then traded for another starter (Washington or White, take your pick). They still need some OT help/depth and some DL depth, and probably another corner, oh, and a QB to take over when Matt goes away (Not gonna be Unfrozen Caveman Clipboard Holder Whitehurst), but they seem to be moving in the right direction.

Denver fan checking in.

As for Tebow, i'm optimistic. Shitastic friends aside (and values), he has a good work ethic and is trying to fix any issues he has with his mechanics. Additionally, if it were another coach than McDaniels, I would worry more. He's had a good history of coaching QBs. Additionally, most of the cost of grabbing him was from trading back and getting more picks. Even with drafting two first round players, we still managed to draft 9 players.

Carroll always had a knack for recruiting... and now he can do it with money.  :why_so_serious:

"now"

Jets coach Ryan uses some choice language in a video, and is taking some heat...
May or may not be SFW depending how loud you want cursing to be heard:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuGqhZ9SnUg&feature=player_embedded

(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f27/taolurker/SmugRyanJets.jpg)

Ryan talked a little about that clip and foul language in the press conference here (http://www.newyorkjets.com/photos-and-videos/videos/81210-Coach-Ryans-Press-Conference-/2d398dda-8b3d-44b3-9ceb-000684dd9ee9#?id=2d398dda-8b3d-44b3-9ceb-000684dd9ee9)

BTW PRESEASON INCOMING NECRO

NEWS AT 11! FOOTBALL COACH USES SALTY LANGUAGE IN A ROOM FULL OF GROWN MEN! SHOCK AND HORROR ENSUES!

What the fuck? This is even a story?

Sexy Rexy!  Its just how he is and he won't change.

Worst fan's in the NFL:
Eagles
Pats
Jets

Nobody else comes close, except perhaps Raiders fans but I have almost forgotten what they were like when they weren't the worst franchise in the league.

Two out of three have a chance to completely fall on their dicks. Ryan is talking so much shit in the build up when he has a sophmore QB and the Eagles just sold McNabb to a division rival. If both of them have non playoff seasons I will be happy no matter what else. This fat fuck talks so much shit and has created so much hype that I'm on the fence about who to root for when New England plays the Jets this year, can't remember the last time I felt that way.

Giants fans can be gigantic cockholsters, but Philly does rule the roost in the NFC for having the biggest assholes. And that's in a division with Dallas as well.

Even though I also give the nod to Phili, Dallas also needs to be on that list. 

Its really hard to hate Dallas fans, they are so fair weather its really not even annoying except when they are the best team in the league. I dislike them on par with Yankees fans and Red Wings fans blah blah you have a traditionally strong team with rich ownership now fuck off you successful pricks sort of thing.

As for Giants fans, for whatever reason they are fairly rare in all the places I've lived and when I do see them they don't hold a candle to the three teams I've listed which are on another level.

I would put Steelers fans above Giants and Dallas but that may be my AFC North / Spend more time in the midwest / Fuck PA biases at work.

I agree with you.  I work next to two Steelers fans and they are obnoxious during the season.

That is part of what makes them so dislikable to me.  There are a great number of "Cowboys fans" in the area I live and I'm convinced a great number of them don't even know what shape a football is. 

I've always believed it's purely unacceptable to root for a team when you've never lived in that state, unless your state has no team.

The whole god damn city of Pittsburgh turns into assgoblins once the season starts. That's all they talk about on the god damn radio, all they talk about at work, in fact I think the Steelers and Penguins are all anyone around here actually discusses.

I give people who's parents are from an area and big fans a pass on that one. 

That is a fuckstupid rule. Where you are from doesn't matter compared to family history, the friend that got you into the game or the star player that first captured your imagination.

I like to invoke that rule when dealing with Cowboys fans, Hoax.  It serves me well, haha.  What good is a rule if you can't apply it selectively? :awesome_for_real:

And thus legions of entitled Yankees fans get a free pass? Fuhgettaboutit.

Aaah, Preseason. Finally some Football to WATCH and not only talk.

Also, Glenn Cofee retiring ('cuz God said so) and so the 49ers pick up Westbrook.

Yeah I read that and thought, WTF?

It's not like you can go and fault him for it because that would be disrespecting his beliefs and decision...but that little mouth in the back of my neck is saying: what the fuck is wrong with this guy? play 10 years, make a boat load of money, THEN open a church or do the charity thing. Oh well... it opens a roster spot for me to try out again  :why_so_serious:

Yeah, Cofee retiring kinda sucked, but I'm liking Dixon so far.

I actually love Jets fans. Love them. They're so adorable and depressed!  :heart: For some reason, even though the only Raiders fans I know are the same way, I do not find Raiders fans adorable. Maybe it's because I grew up with the Jets being the Constantly Lesser Team That Doesn't Even Have Its Own Stadium Oh My God They're So Cute?

My top three shitty fans are Eagles fans by a million miles, then Cowboy fans, then Eagles fans again. I'm a Giants fan, so they are exempt.  :grin:

Coffee quitting appears to have been Jesus related.

As far as bad fans go I have heard about some pretty terrible stuff happening to people at Raiders games.

My experience of going to a few NFL games at various venues over the past ten or so years shows me that most NFL teams have obnoxious asshole fans.  Some of the drunken, loutish behavior makes me question whether or not I would want to take my kids to a game.  I'll just watch at home, thanks.  Colin Cowherd is right-  your couch is the best seat in the stadium.

When the live games have to stop play for television commercials, TV is in HD and has live stats updated with every play so I can track fantasy performance, hell yeah the couch is the best seat. That's not even counting the insane cost of tickets and stadium beer.

If you just want to see what happens, absolutely. The in stadium experience is completely different though. You can see the whole field. You can watch whichever player/area you want without worrying about the camera. You can cheer and jeer with tens of thousands of other people. You can pay outrageous prices for beer, and then nearly wet your pants when half the stadium beats you to the restroom line at halftime. You can spill beer on people nearby, and have it spilled on you.

Attending games in person is a fucking blast a couple of times a season. If the home team is playing well, I could see going to most home games. I think 5 or 6 would be about my limit though- it is taxing on both the wallet and the body. But WOW is it fun when your team is rolling and you are cheering and celebrating with the people in your section. High fiving strangers in a drunken haze is a lot of fun  :grin:

I think every football fan owes it to themself to attend at least one live game with good seats.  It gives you a much better appreciation for the speed of the pro game than television ever could.

I think I see my problem.

All going to a live pro game did was make me appreciate the live college football experience a lot more.

If you REALLY understand the intricacies of football, then watching an NFL game is an amazing experience.  Watching Peyton Manning dissect a cover two defense in real time is a work of art.   

Been to a few Browns games when I was a kid (in the 80s when they were respectable). Being a kid, you don't really get it, but for the reasons stated above about bathroom lines, spilled drinks, asshat mouthbreathers who mortgaged their trailers for tickets screaming in your ear... no thanks. That keeps me away from most large social gatherings. I go once for the experience, then never again.

I am going to assume you didn't mean that as condescending as it sounded.  :grin:

While I would agree there is something to what you're saying, there are also a lot of annoying distractions to the live experience that to me outweigh that. I've been to a pretty good number of different live sporting events, and I would rate the live NFL towards the bottom, along with the NHL and anything at the LA Coliseum (worst sight lines of any stadium I've ever been in, plus it has a track to make things farther away on top of it).

College football NOT at the Coliseum, minor league baseball, college basketball, MLB with good seats, I would put those all well ahead of the NFL experiences I've had (49ers at Candlestick for reference.)

My apologies.  I didn't mean it to come off that badly.   

The point that I was getting at is that the NFL game is like watching chess compared to the college game being more like checkers.  The games are two very different viewing experiences.  NFL football has so many different sets, assignments, and schemes, that you really have to pay attention to the details to fully appreciate the experience.

I think you have to have played at a very high level (and I have not) to fully appreciate how fast and proficient NFL players are.

I think you just have to be a student of the game.  Many coaches never played in college. 

My two favorite spots to watch live are the o-line and the secondary off the ball/before the ball is thrown. You really get a feel for how exact the timing has to be on pass plays.

So with Favre back, how long till his streak is broken?

I hate domed stadiums. The Cardinals new stadium feels like I'm in large sized terrarium, and the sight lines are poor. It really sucks compared to Sun Devil Stadium (or whatever it's called, the stadium ASU plays in, where Cardinals also called home for almost 20 years). Though admittedly September/October games starting at 1p could be brutal, not so bad on shady side of stadium, but too sun drenched on other side. But night games would correct that ill.

Red zone channel on DirecTV (except when Steelers or Packers are on) is the way to go, especially for a family that's all heavily invested in pay fantasy leagues…

If his ankle isn't all the way healed, he will get fucking murdered inside the first month.

Seconded on the Red Zone channel. The first week it started I switched over to it to check it out during a commercial on the game I was watching, and then watched it for 3 straight hours. It is a FF player's wet dream.

Still waiting for that friendly live game between our teams.  That'll be the best game I've ever seem.

Not that many though.  I never really played, and I can see a big difference in the level of understanding between those that have and those that have not.  My buddy that played for Baylor back in the day (middle line backer) when they won the last SWC can point out stuff all the time that you just wouldn't know if you weren't in it.  Of course some folks can coach if they haven't played, but I don't think Dennis Franchione is a great example, haha.

The NFL game is light years ahead of the college game in terms of speed, size, reads, cuts, blockers, and mentality. Hell the only thing they really have it common is that they use a lot of the same setups, but the execution is just wildly different. It's the reason that a guy like Tim Tebow can be the unequivocal best of his decade as a QB in college with his elongated throwing motion and rushing between the tackles, whereas in the NFL he's a 3rd string prospect who would be dead if he tried to take off running.

It's almost like an RTS game gap between the mid-tier great players and the tournament professionals. Any cheesy exploit offense or scheme that covered your weaknesses effectively at the lower level will be totally exposed and destroyed in the pros.

Goodell, owners support 18-game season; players concerned (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81a0299a/article/goodell-owners-support-18game-season-players-concerned?module=HP_headlines)

I'm not entirely sure on the 18-game season. I support anything that cuts out preseason games. But the Super Bowl is already too damn late into the next year, so however many games they want to have, they don't need to push the Super Bowl back any more than it already is. The players have a good point. The owners want more games, but they want to pay the players a smaller share of the pie. I wouldn't go for it either.

I support it as a fan, though I'd like it to mean that the regular season starts earlier, not that the Super Bowl is played two weeks later...which of these are they actually proposing?

I can see why the players might not love this, however.  On the other hand, these are people who get paid millions to do something the rest of us would be thrilled to do for a fraction, so who gives a shit what they think.   :awesome_for_real:

I hate it. Preseason is too long and grueling, but so is the regular season. At least by raping fans for full price preseason games you get some new blood in the seats (many season ticket holders give away the preseason games to people who would otherwise never go). 18 games just means more teams decimated by injuries come December. Maybe another bye week in the season, and start the season in early August?

Solution is easy, but the owners will never have it.  16 games, 2 preseason.  They lose two games of revenue. 

18 game season has too many problems.

- injuries of marquis players

- each game becomes less meaningful

- longer season causes fans to become disinterested in the regular season

- pay issues.  Do players get paid for 2 additional games or not?  Owners say no, player's association says yes.

Etc.

I'm in favor of it as long as the players get compensated appropriately. All I see is more meaningful football = more entertainment for me.

I am against it. The preseason is boring, but it serves a very important function for each of the teams. They are rusty as hell getting out on the field, and those 4 games really help them gel, figure out the (at this point extremely necessary) depth chart for the backups, and give the starters some real game experience without a lot of injury threat.

Also, even with 16 games, teams that are playoff bound are checking out with 2 or more to play. The Colts folding up their tent with 3 games to go, and they gift-wrapped a playoff spot for the Jets by laying down. There will be at least 3 teams this season who won't bother fielding their starters in the last game of the season, and possibly two teams that check out for 2 or 3 games. Toss in the fact that have teams that know they are spoilers by Week 8, and the regular season is long enough dammit.

I don't want teams sitting players for a month because they are locked for the top playoff slots.

I'd be all for just killing 2 preseason games and starting the season earlier. Maybe toss in another bye week.

Charging full-price for preseason games is absolutely criminal.

Maybe one of the preseason games could just be a scrimmage, with fans bringing food donations to attend.

That is a great idea. Of course, the money first assholes who run the NFL would never go for it.

I love the idea, but they should add a week off for the league after game 12 or 13.  Pushing the Super Bowl into the second week of Feb is nuts, too. 18 actual games in 19 weeks will shorten the career of every player except kickers by a significant margin.

Rumor has it that Derek Anderson is beating the shit out of Leinart for the number 1 spot in AZ. That has fail written all over it, which warms my cold black heart.

Don't get too warm, I've heard rumblings that they're trying to work out a trade to Seattle so Leinart can be reunited with Pete Carroll.  :why_so_serious:

As a Cowboys fan, I would approve such a move.  :awesome_for_real:

Two weeks. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V17duGlHEYY)

I am praying that Carroll isn't that stupid.

Maybe the Browns can pick him up, after they cut McCoy  :awesome_for_real:


Apparently McCoy really is on the chopping block.  Knowing Cleveland, if they cut him he'll turn out to be the next Tom Brady.  If they keep him, he'll be selling cigarettes at the Cleveland Greyhound station by Christmas. 

Which, to be honest, is probably better than actually being a Cleveland Brown.

Colt McCoy should never have been drafted. The fact he went that late said volumes about his actual talent translation to the NFL. He's undersized, doesn't have the optimal release point, and obviously prone to injury. If he can't withstand a petty WTF hit from Alabama, the NFL would kill him.

That said, I wouldn't recommend cutting him before he even gets the chance to prove himself in a playing scenario. I mean damn, unless he's a total slackass give the kid a year to learn before you toss him to the wolves.

Or unless Delhomme gets decapitated (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhtLDG5JxUI) and is done forever.

Quite a douche play from Donkey Kong Suh.  He should probably get a big ole fine for that one.

I liked it.  If I'm a coach, it shows me that my rookie has intensity.  I'll happily pay 15 yards to see that every game, especially if I coached for the Lions.  

Should they fine Suh?  Probably.  I still like to see that kind of intensity from a defensive rookie. Football is all about posturing and mental toughness.

I can see it from that angle, I suppose, but I still think it was boneheaded from a "don't you know the rules, stupid?" standpoint.  Good intensity, and all, but in a real game situation you are putting yourself at risk of being ejected.  Not to mention needlessly putting another player at risk in what amounts to a meaningless game.

Keep in mind that when you're on the field and your multi-million $$ salary depends on said "meaningless game", your perspective changes.  If you don't bring the heat every minute, there are millions of wanna-bees ready to take your job and livelihood.  For many players, there is nothing for them after football.  They have to make their mark while they can.

Fine, but I'd like to think that the cognitive skills required to say to yourself "whoah, this is the QB I'm about to demolish here" is a more valuable trait than the more primitive ones we saw on display here.  I know he plays the defensive line and his job is to go after the QB...but if he can't show that he has two brain cells to rub together, then I'd argue that he's going to struggle.

This is probably just an anomoly anyway, so no reason to take it much deeper than that.

I only played in college, but can tell you (from my personal perspective) that you just don't think rationally when you're in the middle of the heat.  When I played defensive back, I injured quite a few people.  Looking back on the experience, my rational mind had no intention of doing such physical damage to them.  It just happens in the intensity of the moment.  I don't know any other way to explain it.  Football is a brutal sport.  The brutality increases as the level of play increases.  That's why people will pay $$$ to watch it.  

I agree with what you're saying on a rational level.  I think that rational thought ends the moment you put on a helmet and hit the field... unless you're a QB.

I'm with Nebu. On the field, it's usually not malicious or done in poor sportsmanship, but it's always done with high intensity which leads to people getting injured. I may have done the same thing in Suh's position given the chance.

I imagine most of us would.  Loads of experience would teach him how to get the maximum impact on the QB, both physically and psychologically, without getting himself ejected, fined, and giving up a chunk of net yardage.

I mean, it's a great play to laugh about on YouTube, but on his end, especially with Delhomme having gotten rid of the ball, not so much.  I'm not a huge fan of QBs getting mollycoddled, but if they don't throw the book at Suh it's just because he's the No. 2 draft pick and Delhomme isn't Tom Brady.

I don't think he could have known that the ball was gone though given the angle which Suh attacked from (which was awful for making a clean tackle but enough to prevent Delhomme from making a pass) and the timing when Delhomme got rid of it. A lot of QBs would have tucked the ball in to prevent a fumble, not toss it sidearm/underarm while expecting to not get taken down as a result. Meanwhile Suh is guilty of doing his job of 'playing until the whistle blows' which in this case should result in nothing more than a penalty (which he got).

If I was his coach, the only thing I'd be pissed about is that he didn't appear to attack the ball at any point on someone who hadn't had it tucked in at initial contact. The rest of it I'd simply tell him to learn from experience while maintaining that focus, effort, and drive.

The intentional grabbing of Delhomme's facemask happened before the ball was gone.  By itself that carries the same penalty, 15 yards and a new set of downs, as the personal foul he was called for.  Nothing to write home about though.

Wrapping his arms around Delhomme's head, spinning Delhomme across his body, and slamming Delhomme on the ground were all after the ball was gone.

Just came across this in a Seahawks thread  (http://www.fanfeedr.com/nfl/2010/09/01/a-completely-irrational-response-to-the-josh-wilson-trade) about the Josh Wilson trade.  Seriously, I don't know what blackmail Ozzie busted out, but oh man.  When I called my cousin last night about it (he lives in Seattle), his head damn near exploded.

(http://i53.tinypic.com/1zykj8.jpg)

I have no idea who this player is, but even without knowing that, it sounds like a shitty trade.

What the hell is that picture?  :ye_gods:

Josh Wilson

Three Seasons,
40 games,
24 starts,
130 tackles,
22 pass deflections,
6 INT's
Average of four tackles per start,
+1.04 WPA,
0.74 TF,
44.6% SR,
+ 37.9 EPA,
+3.16 EPA/G

Traded for a conditional 5th round pick.  Knowing none of the facts, my guess is that they either wanted to shed salary or the guy was a cancer in the locker room.  On paper, he looks a HELL of a lot better than a standard 5th round pick that ends up playing special teams or on the bench.

Wilson was set to be a FA next year, and the Seahawks apparently wanted to go cheaper.   

The only explanation is that Carroll and Schneider are fucking morons. Wilson has been awesome for the team, and unless his personality is 180 degrees different behind closed doors, there is no way he is a cancer. He has completely outplayed his replacement (Kelly Jennings) since he was drafted a year after Jennings. To be fair, a potted plant would have been in a tight position fight with Jennings, though. They drafted Walter Thurmond in the 4th round this year, who was probably a 1st round talent but had a pretty bad knee injury. Apparently he is really looking healed and good, and they have a former UW corner (Roy Lewis) as well, but I still can't understand why they were so excited to get rid of Wilson. They say that Baltimore was 'really aggressive' coming after him, but as a commenter on the news story in the paper said, " OOH.. look at them waving around that 5th round pick!".

A young starting corner should garner more than a 5th rounder. I am assuming Kelly Jennings has video of Paul Allen visiting a certain notorious barn out in Enumclaw...that is the only possible explanation for his continued employment and now promotion.

Ugh.  Maybe Pete Carrol just felt he wasn't being competitive enough?

My guess is that this has a lot to do with salaries, free agency, and the impending NFL strike.

I agree completely.  Especially when the young corner has such a solid performance track record.  I only commented on the "locker room cancer" because short of salary, you'd have to be an idiot to release a guy like this for a 5th round pick.

My guess is you will see a lot of odd moves this season due to the lockout potential.

How 'bout them Saints?  :why_so_serious:

Good game, but it became really obvious really quickly that Favre was missing Rice something fierce. Nobody else stepped up consistently the whole game. Once the Saints got Shancoe covered, the game was over. New Orleans switching to a running game in the second half probably helped a good deal too, eating up the clock. But WTF was up with the Saints' kicker?

Kind of a weird game on both sides.  You're right about the receiving corps on Minnesota.  Favre didn't seem to have any good options.  What freaks me out the most was the inability of Percy Harvin to find a way to get open (I have him on my Fantasy team).  Maybe they all needed Rice to open up the field for them.  They've got a long first half of a season to get through.

The Saints....I don't know.  Minnesota's D was good at adjusting, but it seemed like NO's offense was too slow to then re-adjust.  They proved they could throw it, then they proved the could run it.  But they somehow never managed to get the whole machine working together.  I have a feeling they'll get it back on track, though, and be as dangerous as they were last year.

I'm good with Favre making Shiancoe his go-to guy. I'm happy with my TE pick so far this week.  :grin:

Min defense was fine.  Holding NO to less than 21 points is quite a feat.  What's obvious is that the Minnesota offense is terribad without Rice.  I think that this is also a sign that Favre should have retired last year.  He didn't look sharp at all, even late in the game.

Or maybe he should just go to training camp if he's serious about playing instead of cutting his lawn.

If he had done camp, he'd be too tired to play during the season.  Getting old is a bitch.

I really think he just needs at least one go-to receiver that he can trust.  If Harvin can't step up, they should seriously consider going after Vincent Jackson with a fat one-year deal.

I was really surprised that they didn't grab T. J. Houshmandzadeh.  He's nothing spectacular, but would have given them another pair of hands. 

Hoosh is not a #1 guy - he's more of a Percy Harvin or a great slot receiver. They really do need a #1, and none of the guys they have seem to be it. Now, I think New Orleans D was pretty good last night. Their corners and safeties played well, so it may be a case that Harvin and co. can get open against lesser opposition. But they weren't doing it last night, and Brett only made a few bad Brett-like throws. He wasn't great, but he wasn't terribad either.

Ok.  Using a draft analogy, he looked more Ryan Leaf than he did Peyton Manning.   He certainly didn't look like a HoF bound QB.  The quickness of his reads are depending more and more on his arm... and his arm just isn't what it used to be.  Yes, he needs a #1, but I think he just needs someone that can run with the stronger CB's in the league.  Shiancoe isn't a top tier receiving TE and I think Percy Harvin is grossly overrated.  That leaves him with Berrian.  Ugh.   

I strongly disagree with this statement. 

Based on what?

Look at the film on him.  How often does he draw double coverage in most defensive schemes?  That will answer your question.

Favre looked old last night. Like cadaverous. Not even talking about his play. I look forward to Minnesota sliding into mediocrity, Favre retiring midseason, and Brad Childress being fired (which should have happened 3 years ago).

I think he'll begin drawing it (as much as a TE ever does).  I think he is under-rated...I watched a lot of Minnesota games last year, and have always thought he had a knack for coming up with the big catch at important times.  He gets in the end zone a lot, too.  I wouldn't want much more for a receiving tight end.  Mind you, I'm not saying he's the absolute best, but I would put him in my top tier for sure.

Just consider this.  Shiancoe was only targeted 79 times in '09, good for only 14th in the NFL. Accordingly, his receiving yardage ranked just 17th.  He's a decent pair of hands near the goal line, but this is also due to his size and ability to take up space in the red zone.  In the open field, he's an average NFL TE.  

I love Shiancoe and have been a Vikings fan since I was a kid growing up in Minneapolis.  I just can't put him with the elite at the position as much as I want him to be there.  On sheer talent alone, I'm more likely to give the nod to Vernon Davis and he's not meeting his expectations.  

That's what she said.

There is a reason I declared I was drafting 'Horsecock McGee' in one of my drafts, and everyone knew who I meant without explanation  :grin:

Drinking and drafting is the only way to go.

I think your focusing overly much on yardage stats, which is especially problematic when you consider how popular of a target Sydney Rice was last year.  My opinion is based more on a view of him as being clutch.  Making big catches and being dependable.  Dude scored 11 TDs last year, and 7 before.  I'll be shocked if he doesn't get at least 10 this year.  That's pant-shittingly good for a TE, as far as I am concerned.  I'd take this guy on my team any day, even if he only manages 500 yards a season.

There's a big difference between being a good NFL TE and being a good fantasy TE.  Siancoe is good near the goal line.  He's good because he has good hands and his size allows him to get good position.  The mark of a truly exceptional TE is their ability to be considered among the WR core.  Witten, Gonzales, Gates, Coates, Sharpe, etc were all equally deadly at midfield as they were in the red zone.  Shiancoe hasn't shown any ability to be an open field receiver.  That's the only reason that I say he isn't one of the NFL elite at his position.  Shiancoe suffers in yardage for this reason.  Rice, even double covered, was a better option.  Why?  Because Shiancoe isn't up to that level yet. 

I apologize for being cryptic earlier. 

Stop dissing my fantasy TE yo!  :awesome_for_real:

I'm 99% certain that I wish I had his numbers this week.  We'll see on Sunday.  :grin:

Favre :(

I wasn't basing my opinion on Fantasy numbers.  I had him on a team last year, and I don't recall him lighting it up too much, all things considered.  It only meant that I followed him more closely, and liked what I saw.  If there are, say, 50 active TEs in the league (I have no idea), there are only a few I'd take ahead of him (Witten, Gates, Clark...probably not Gonzalez any more).  I'm not even sure about Gates.

At any rate, I think this year, with the absence of Rice, will tell us if I'm right or not, because he'll certainly have the opportunity to be that guy.

I agree with you completely in that with Rice gone and Harvin having issues, he has every opportunity to produce.  I hope that he has a breakout year and drafted him in another league for that reason.  Unfortunately, I think that if he had the ability to be an elite TE, we would have seen it while he was competing against Shockey in NY.   I think last year is about the best we'll see from him.   

Nice to see I'm off to such a rousing start with having both the NE Defense and Forte sitting on my bunch while earning 213423521354 points.   :argh:

At least you didn't have Stafford as your starter  :uhrr:

Why did I draft Beanie Wells over Arian Foster again?  :oh_i_see:

For my under performing teams sake, I'm glad you made the choice you did.  

That was a sick game though... Houston finally has a running back it seems.  Too soon to be certain if he will flame out like Slaton though.

I'm not in your league.  I'm talking about a friends and family league I'm in.  Even Chris Johnson couldn't save me since my opponent this week has Brady, Welker *and* Forte starting.  Oh, and Shiancoe and Hightower just to top it off.

Augh we are getting KILLED by the freaking Seahawks.

Man the Lions got hosed (as did I in the fantasy league).

You stay awesome, Dallas!  :grin:

Wash/Dallas was a heck of a game.  Good Sunday to start the season all the way around.

What a Sunday! Great start to the season for sure. Washington and Dallas was a great game full of  :ye_gods: :awesome_for_real: :why_so_serious: :uhrr: Gotta love an offensive line that absolutely kills multiple drives all game long until they finally shitcan your winning TD. Go go gadget hold! McNabb did what he needed to do, not lose the game.

Speaking of losing the game, WELCOME TO THE KEVIN KOLB ERA, PHILLY FANS!  :awesome_for_real:  :awesome_for_real:  :awesome_for_real: Motherfucker looked lost until he got knocked out. But I can't say as I blame him, since every third play he was getting pulled for Michael the Dog Killer Vick. That's what you want to do with your newly anointed starter QB against a tough D Line, keep switching him in and out for a fucking trick QB, making sure he gets in no rhythm whatsoever. Bad call on Reid's part. But again, fuck you Philly fans, you deserve to go 0-16 for continually treating McNabb like shit year after successful year. Green Bay, OTOH, looked solid. Still worried about the running game though, especially if Grant is really hurt that bad. Jackson has talent, he just seems to hesitate at the point of attack and doesn't get the kind of drive he needs. It's like he's afraid to hit people in the mouth. And goddamn that offensive line can eat my ass. I can't wait for Bulaga to replace one of those fuckers by midseason.

Texans look for real this year. Foster definitely looks for real.

One thing is for sure after that GB game... Matthews is a fucking beast.

I have a feeling that Reid knows who the better player is and has known for a while.  He's just letting Kolb knock himself out with play, etc., and then he will have no option but to go with Vick.  By doing it thus he avoids the PR shitstorm.

Ahahaha SUCK IT San Francisco!

Sorry, but we in Sea Chicken land haven't had much to cheer about lately.  For any sport.

And while we're at it, SUCK IT Dallas Cowboys.  Hell, I hate the Redskins, but I'll take them any day over your sorry asses.  Too bad none of that amazing talent is in your brains.

Wow, Detroit got hosed.

I don't care what the rule is, thats a touchdown, he specifically held it out in one hand as he went to the ground to show he had possession. Letter of the law be damned.

Yeah it was a great game. It's tough to lose on a penalty when you throw the winning TD, but that's the breaks. The Dallas defense looked very good, and I hope the offense will be fine once we get our battered O-Line back. The penalties!  :ye_gods:

Excuses excuses.  Dallas had the whole game to beat Washington.  It was Dallas' fault that they relied on the last play of the game so heavily.  Dallas played a poor game.  Washington had to pull out every stop to just be in it.  Were I a coach, I'd get my players focusing on the myriad of fuckups that happened during the game, not the call at the end.

The call at the end was pretty clear anyway, and had the hold not happened Romo may have just gotten his head torn off by Okapo (or whatever his name is)...at the very least, he'd have been under more pressure. 

But yeah, Detroit got hosed.  That was a catch by any reasonable definition - just not the one in the rulebook apparently.  I think the refs called it right, it's the rule that needs to be tweaked.

Not making excuses. We did everything we could to lose. We missed a FG, we fumbled at the end of the second half for Washington's only TD, and we took a ton of penalties that cost us not only several first downs and the game-winning TD. The offense was totally wretched and the line deserves to be run into the ground for how many dumbass mistakes they made. That being said, Romo played well under fire, Austin is still Austin, and the defense bowed up several times in bad situations to keep our fuckup offense in the game. I'm not tossing the baby out with the bathwater because we lost a road opener.

Amen. I didn't even remember I had Megatron in one of my fantasy leagues until well after the game, and I was incensed.

Hey, who was the guy giving me shit for drafting Arian Foster too high?  :awesome_for_real:

I am not sure who showed up at Qwest on Sunday, but it certainly wasn't the Seahawks I was expecting. Hope they can keep it going!

Meanwhile, Paelos, your pick of the Texans was looking fairly prophetics.  Jesus Criminy.

Yeah, I chuckled about that one. I do think the Texans have a team built to win the AFC, and I expected them to eek by Indy's terrible O-line issues, but that was a runaway.

One good week does not make a season.  The guy is part of a platoon.  It's always risky taking half of a platoon backfield... that or a RB working for Shanahan.

Hell, any RB not named Chris Johnson or Ray Rice is probably a gamble these days.  Fortunately for me, I have the latter...

...now his ass needs to reel off at least 20 points tonight, or I'm screwed.

I think Foster is going to get the majority of the carries for the Texans this year. And of course, yesterday's big totals were against the Colts run defense, which has always been poor when Bob Sanders doesn't play. His injuries have more to do with the Colts' defense than any other factor, including Freeney's missed time last year. I'm still not sure the Colts would have won that game with Sanders, though. Mario Williams was working the shit out of that O-Line and Antonio Smith wasn't far behind. The Texans are definitely going to make the playoffs this year, IMO, though I still don't think they'll win the division.

If Andy Reid decides Vick is his quarterback, that will end any chance of me ever rooting for Philly again, even against the hated Cowboys. Michael Vick should still be in fucking prison, not making a million dollars as wildcat QB (or a starter). Fuck Michael Vick in his earhole.

Anyone who was surprised by Cincy getting pounded by the Pats? I can't believe anyone is giving them a chance at a winning season this year. Aging, hurt and incoherent is the best description I can give of that team.

I must confess that I was a tiny bit surprised.  Not by Cinci losing.  I knew that would happen.  I just thought the Cinci defense was a little better than they showed.  I was very wrong about that.  

I actually picked Cinci in that game (though partly against my best judgement), but their defense just couldn't do a damn thing against the Pats.

Re: Michael Vick, regardless of his off the field stuff, I think the eagles are dumb if they don't put him in.  Of course, I hate the eagles either way, so this really won't make me hate them any more than when they just signed him last year to begin with.

Also,

-Det got hosed. I was in downtown Chi yesterday and it was this weird feeling of we won, but what a shitty way to win. Good job by the refs to make the call that is supposed to be made, but what a crappy rule. Hopefully that gets tweaked for next season.
-Good job McNabb and the Skins over the boys. I don't like how Dez Bryant was being used, at all, early on. I missed the second half though so maybe it improved, but shitty screens without even getting blockers out for him.... :uhrr:
-I was actually surprised by the Houston and Indi game, I figured Houston would do great but just not win. Hopefully that keeps up and they'll continue to be very fun to watch.
-I also thought that NE would win over Cinci, but it would have been a bit closer. Mostly due to not thinking Welker would do so well

Overall, another great opening Sunday.

If Detroit had gotten that catch/win it would have been a steal of a game in its own right. Even if you subtract the insane penalty yardage, Chicago doubled them up on total yards, and neither team could hold onto the ball. Basically they were looking at a chance at what was basically a flukey luck win, and they ran out of luck.

Locally, I think the Alex Smith hate has reached new heights. Discontent with the Niners is heading towards the Raider zone I think.

I can dig that. Smith was cover your eyes awful yesterday. If he completes that throw to the wide open FB on 4 and 1 to make it 10-0 it is a totally different game. Not to mention the interceptions. Seahawks D played really well, but Smith didn't help himself at all.

Also, WTF was Chicago thinking when they got the fumble on the 1 with like 8 minutes left in the game? You couldn't cram it in there on 3 plays, and you are down by 1 in the fourth quarter. You have absolutely no fucking business not making a FG and taking the lead.

I absolutely agree. Most of Chicago agrees with you as we stood dumbfounded on our couches, or wherever people were at, as they attempted and failed on 4th down. A scoreless second half (at that point) in a close divisional game on opening day....you take the damn points.

On the train home yesterday, some say that is a decision where had the jammed it in the endzoe that Lovie would be viewed as being a smart or brave coach, I called bullshit. If he made it when he went for it, he'd have been a fool who made a dumb decision and had been lucky. I don't think that was one of those decisions at all. When losing and given an early Christmas present, like the ball on the opponents 1 yard line, you take the damn points.

Not to mention the fact that Detroit had done NOTHING for about an hour with the ball. The defense was absolutely smothering them until they got the lead and decided to run the most hated defensive scheme in the game: the "Don't Fuck This Up" Prevent.

Of course, Calvin Johnson did go to Georgia Tech. They aren't always as smart as they believe.  :grin:

"Oh no, Sjofn, the 49er defense is good this season, you should totally start them! They're playing the shitty Seahawks, too, don't start the Giants defense even though they're only playing shitty Carolina!"

$!@##$%$&

Still. Yay Giants!  :awesome_for_real:

Glad to see at least one other team look exactly like the Browns. Jesus christ on a stick, did Sanchez even look 10 yards past his O-Line? That was fucking horrible...

Sanchez is fucking awful - it's just because he's playing in New York that somehow means he must be a great QB or some bullshit.   

Sanchez is going to make Jets fans wish they had Pennington back.  :grin:  Serves them right for never appreciating the guy.

That poor receiver is still looking for his cleats after that hit from Ray Lewis...Talk about being violated.

(http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/438926/161638211.gif)

If he was playing for the Giants, maybe, but it's the fuckin' Jets we're talking about. But even if that were the case, it's not just because he's playing for a NY team. That NY team went mighty deep in the playoffs with him as their QB, that tends to earn some extra "he's not wretched!" time.


PS: It's hard to appreciate a dude that seems to spend 98% of the time he was with your team hurt. That was the main gripe about him that I recall when Pennington was with the Jets.

I alternate between thinking Sanchez sucks naturally and thinking that he sucks as a result of wretched play-calling.  I think it's probably both to some degree, but I'm swinging more an more to the latter.  We all know they still have the training wheels on him...which you can't do on a second year guy, and you absolutely cannot do if you want any chance to go to a Super Bowl.  For better or worse, they have to open up that offense.  If they don't, they have the best defense in the league and still manage to lose 8 games.


Also, what the fuck San Diego?

The AFC West is a running gag-factory. San Diego may not even be able to strut to the playoffs this year with that kind of effort. The first round bye certainly didn't do them any favors when they had to play the "powerhouse" Jets.

Pop Quiz: What's the only division in football to have three losing teams? The AFC West.   :ye_gods:

I'm of the opinion that Sanchez is better than the Jets are letting him be. They're telling him they don't trust him by the plays they're giving him. How confident and good would you be if your boss was constantly telling you "We'll let you do this, but no more, because we don't trust you" and then not even giving you a chance to try to change their opinion? These days, being older and wiser, I'd know that these idiots were telling me wrong and either find a way to prove they're wrong or  start looking for other work. But when I was in my early 20's? I'm thinking I'd be indecisive and look a bit like a clown, too.

Kinda how I'm seeing it, yeah.  And he's becoming so used to it now that he actually starts his progressions wrong.  Ball snaps and he looks to his check-downs first, never even seeing if someone is open downfield.  You know that isn't his natural instinct, that's (bad) coaching.

I'm still torn.  Athletically, I like Sanchez a lot.  Mentally, I'm not sure that he's up to speed with the NFL game.  Some of his checkdown reads seem like he's not seeing the field as well as he should at this point in his career.  The guy should be benefiting tremendously from facing an incredible defensive backfield every day in practice. 

While the Jets offensive coaching isn't that great, I still put a bit of it on Sanchez. He's just not that great, period. I never did understand the love for the guy. [fake edit: what Nebu said, that is exactly right imo]

As for the Ravens, they are still badass on D. Ray Lewis is a scary mother fucker, and it feels weird when seeing what they did last night I just think "meh, it's the Ravens and it's what they do" instead of being blown away every time I watch that defense in action.

I'm still a bit shocked at how shitty SD looked last night and how good KC looked. Granted SD gave KC a bit of help looking like a solid team, a lot of that is improvement by that KC squad. I'm also glad I put in Charles instead of Housh last night at the last minute :grin:

Sanchez looked bad last night, but it was against one of the better defenses in the league. He's thinking too much, which is expected of a guy in his second year. He hasn't figured out his go-to guy. He isn't being let off the leash by the coaching staff, and they are constantly drilling checkdowns into his head. He's got the yips. He's so afraid of throwing an INT or taking a sack (and fumbling), that his second read is a short checkdown. Against a good D, that won't win you games. Hell, look at Flacco. Third-year guy against one of the best defensive backfields in the league, and he kind of made them look like clowns even though they only scored 10 points. The Ravens couldn't run for shit against that Jet front line, but they still managed to have decent yardage numbers and win the game with passing. It was good gameplanning by the Ravens' but it was also pretty decent QB and wideout play. Last night showed me what all the pundits didn't want to see. The Jets are a great defensive and running team, but Sanchez is probably at Rex Grossman levels in terms of his development as a QB. I'm not saying he can't get better, but he ain't a Super Bowl QB yet. The Jets will be better, probably 10 or 11 wins, but they aren't ready to take down the Colts, Ravens or Patriots of the league in the playoffs.

San Diego?  :facepalm: Em-fucking-barrassing.

Um.  I'd hardly say Flacco made the Jets "look like clowns."  He made some nice throws.  But they scored 10 points.  Flacco played adequately.  Sanchez was a disgrace and an embarrassment.

Watching last nights SD / Chiefs game made me realize that I really really hate Phillip Rivers.  Just seems like a whiny little twat to me, constantly beratting his teammates every chance he gets, meanwhile making some absolutely terrible throws.  He's got some ability, there's no doubt about that.  But he strikes me as a really terrible leader.

I'll have to kindly ask you to step the fuck away from my Fantasy QB.

He sure as fuck made Cromartie and Wilson look clownish with the number of penalties they drew. No, he didn't get any TD passes, but against what is probably the best defense in the league, he moved that team with absolutely NO running game and very little short passing game.

Additionally, Flacco did that under some intense pressure and after his first play was a sack/fumble. Keeping your cool and leading an offense in the situations he was in last night is no easy thing to do. I also think the unsung hero here just very well may be Kundiff (or Cundiff? I forget) with placing his foot on Edwards, after he leap frogged a lineman, and falling over with some wonderful acting to draw a flag. Turning a field goal into a TD. Well played.

Cromartie yes... although he did intercept Flacco, so not completely clownish. Wilson, though? Isn't this his first year and he's covering someone by himself who's what... a foot taller? Eh... I think calling him clownish at all is unfair. What's clownish is that he was in that position all by himself to begin with. Once again... coaching...

That Cromartie interception was a pressure thing. Flacco had people all over him and just floated it up there. And yes, Wilson was a rookie who should never have been covering Boldin. That one is definitely on the coaching.

Maybe I'm just taking too much glee in the Jets losing. I've just gotten so fucking sick of all the lather the ESPN guys have gotten themselves into over the Jets this offseason. The defensive front 7 looked Pro Bowl, and the running game looked decent. The rest looked JV, from being outcoached as much as outplayed. Had the Ravens been forced to throw towards Revis, it might not have been so pretty.

I don't know if I could call it entirely on bad coaching as much as it is the Ravens simply having too many weapons that need to be kept in check. Mason, Boldin, Houshmandzadeh, Rice, McGahee, Heap....that is a LOT of options when Flacco is an accurate passer that needs to be kept under pressure. At times the Jets only lined up with 1 DL and setup with more LB and DB then normal, which is a smart move but it still wasn't enough.

So really, while it is an obvious matchup problem for the Jets, what else could they really have done without leaving another very dangerous target open?

Nice to see Revis pitch another, what, 2-hitter? Seriously, you never saw him all evening because Flacco stayed the hell away from him. Now if this Wilson kid can get up to speed in a hurry, along with Crommy, yeah... their def is pretty much solid from then on. Now about that QB there... seriously, he can throw, right? I can't tell you how many times I shouted at the TV after they called either a run or some shitty screen on 3rd and long. Does Shotty have no confidence in Sanchez or was that just terrible calls. I am sure Sanchez checked down a lot, and with Braylon out there you kinda have to keep that line available, but still...

Go Brownies!  :ye_gods:

I say it was coaching because I think Boldin is a mis-match against Cromartie. Put your best corner on their best receiver and keep him there - that means Revis sticks to Boldin like fucking glue. Cromartie can cover Mason and Wilson can cover Hoosh. The fact that they didn't keep those matchups meant that Harbaugh found a way to get the mismatches he wanted, i.e. Boldin on Cromartie and Wilson. Revis may be one of the few corners that can cover Boldin, so you have to close him down and make Mason or Hoosh beat you. And against another team with a lesser line, Rice would have made that passing attack crazy good.

I do agree that Revis would be better at covering Boldin, but I actually agree with putting him on Mason. Mason and Flacco know each other much better and have a better chemistry than Flacco/Boldin and Flacco/Housh, which is why he's still the primary on the team. If Revis was sent over to cover Boldin now you have Mason and Housh beating you all day since Crom or Wilson couldn't cover Mason or Housh if they wanted to without a good bit of help. It is a poor match-up for the Jets, no matter how you cut it, due to the Ravens simply having too many people to cover when the Jets still need to maintain a high level of pressure to continue locking down the Ravens rushing game forcing Flacco to hurry more than he'd like to.

I think your statement that "make Mason or Hoosh beat you" says it all about the power and depth of the Ravens offense and what the Jets were really up against.

Edit: removed the part that is now spoilered below as I know that wasn't what you or anyone else is saying, though the analogy does work
Edit 2: I think the scary part is that Stallworth is injured and they still have this much depth and talent.

I find it odd to state that the Ravens have "too many weapons" after the heights they achieved during the Kyle Boller years. But there it is.  :awesome_for_real:

Despite all the stats, let's not lose sight of the fact that Baltimore only barely won this game.  All those yards and all those defensive penalties, and they still only barely managed to get into the endzone...and only then because of a borderline running into the kicker call, a PI penalty and it took them three downs to get McGahee to squeak over the line.  They weren't terribly brilliant on offense by any stretch of the imagination.

God, it's great that football is back!  I love these discussions.

Nobody here is actually capable of processing this yet either, so don't feel bad.  The idea that we might actually have an offense and what that means is causing no end of confusion. 

As to the mismatches - it's not how Rex plays the game.   He's going to blitz and blitz a lot which is going to leave his secondary exposed.  He really needed to give his db's some additional help when it became obvious that they were getting torched, but he refused to adjust.

I agree that it is absolutely crazy. What's next....we start saying Ubisoft needs more DRM? :why_so_serious:


It's true that they were far from brilliant as an offense (only a combined passing/rushing total of 300), but 3 turnovers and poor average starting field position (their own 23) is going to hurt and will help keep them out of the end zone. Though really, combined with the starting position and how few first downs the Jets had which results in the Ravens time of possession and number of drives they had, that really isn't that many yards. It speaks volumes about how defensive of a game this was. I do know that I can't wait until Housh and Boldin build some strong chemistry with Flacco though....that's a scary thought, especially when Stallworth comes back.

Also, this is one point I'm more unsure of, do the Jets have phenomenal special teams as well, or that is the Ravens weak link is their return teams (4 punt returns for 5 yards, 4 kick off returns for 72 yards)?

QFT :heart:

The Ravens special teams were quite inept all night. That comes from having your two main return guys injured. That play where ZBoskowski or whatever his name was almost made a safety out of a punt return was especially cringeworthy.

And yeah, when Stallworth comes back and Flacco gets a few more games with Boldin and Housh, and they aren't facing a run defense like the Jets, this Ravens O could be SCARY good. There's a reason I picked them to get to the Super Bowl.

All reasons why I love Mason this year.  He has the experience and the hands to stabilize the Ravens offense.  I look for him to take on larger role this year due to the double teams that Boldin is likely to face.

All kinds of reports all over that Ryan Grant is done for the year.

There goes my 2nd round pick.  Fortunately I grabbed his backup off the wire.

Fuck me, it's true (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5572144).

GOD-DAMNIT. And I wouldn't feel that fortunate about drafting Jackson - he hasn't ever justified his draft position.

It's why I expected them to get to the super bowl, but I don't think it fully clicked how lethal their O can truly be. If they get some good rhythm and stay healthy, I may have to change my pick from the Saints winning it all to the Ravens


I'm reading that also, which sucks since I like Grant.

Bob Sanders is also out again for the year for the Colts. The hits just keep on coming for them.

I don't believe the Colts ever expect Bob to play a full year anyway.

Sucks about Grant, though....will be interesting to see how this affects that offense.

One thing the Packers have had good luck with is unknown backups coming in at running back and having career seasons after the starter goes down.

Levens after Bennett got hurt and Grant after Green got hurt being examples.

Which probably has more to do with the fact they had pretty good offensive lines those years, IIRC.

Hey, he managed to run for 1200+ yards last year while Rogers was getting sacked 50 times.

Super Bowl runner up syndrome strikes again.  I think they're going to struggle a lot this year.

I think they will come out pissed off and smash the Giants, personally. Beyond that, I'm not sure how their season shapes up with their line.

The Colts will win their division, but it will be close. I don't think either the Titans or the Jags can really challenge them, and even with a shaky D, they still can run with anyone in the AFC and a few NFC teams. Looking at their schedule, I really think they'll win between 11 and 13 games, barring some crazy spate of injuries to key players. I think Houston will probably win 10 games and go in as a wild card.

I'm certainly no pro expert, but Houston looked very good and Indy looked very, very bad.  I think their age is starting to catch up with them. 

The Pats, on the other hand, looked spectacular. 

We'll see about the Pats, I think.  Not like Cinci is the toast of the league.  They'll be tested far more by the Jets defense this weekend.

They'll still beat the Jets, mind you....I mean, I don't think the Jets have a "score touchdown please" play in their book.

I think we'll see how good Houston is during weeks 11 (jets), 13 (Phili) and 14 (Baltimore).  That's a tough run against the better defenses in the league.

I don't see Philly being much of a problem. Their offense is a mess - relying on Michael Vick didn't get Atlanta that much and Kolb, well who knows?

And don't take the Pats performance against Cincy as anything. Cincy is going to be REALLY bad this year.

The blowout game of the week will be Green Bay v. Buffalo if things go as we'd expect.

I don't either.  That's a game that is more about effectiveness than winning.  I want to see how Houston handles the stronger defenses in the league.  It will set the tone for their playoff run. 

Yes.  I do think Houston will be making a playoff run. 

I think Philly is going to lose a lot of games by a TD or more this season while still scoring 20+ on average.

Just watch this sweet little deal go down.
It's dogfighting time (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5584228)


Reid is just happy he didn't have to actually bench Kolb for poor play.  I look for Vick to really do well in Philly, where he isn't surrounded by cardboard cutouts of NFL players.

Edit:  it won't hurt that he's going to playing against cardboard cutouts of I-AA players in his first game.

So who thinks that the Oakland Raiders would be the team to step in and try to trade for Vincent Jackson before next week? I mean, it ain't like Al Davis makes the most rational decisions. But according to that video at the top of that page ghost linked to, to get rid of Jackson, the Chargers will probably want at least 2 second round picks and then the team that gets Jackson will need to pay him at least $9 mil a year. Seeing as how the Raiders need wideouts that don't suck, and Al Davis would love to stick it to his division rivals, doesn't that seem like about the only fit? Or is there another retarded GM out there that would do that kind of deal?

Jerry Angelo says hi from Chicago.

Vick's problem is that he can't stop. He's constantly going 110% on every play, and while that can lead to some spectacular highlights, he gets his ass beat up a lot. How often do you see him simple slide or go out of bounds easy? Hell, he got blasted near the goal line going for the endzone out of bounds last week.

He'll get injured at some point, or have some costly fumbles.

I would love to see him suffer a debilitating injury that dogs him the rest of his life.

I would love to see that injury inflicted on him by a dog.  :drill:  :why_so_serious:

I'm thinking he should be put on tosh.0 for a web redemption. Vick vs a pack of pit-bulls, ready...fight! :grin:

I agree.  Vick is a shithead.  I would like to see him get a Tim Krumrie. 

At the risk of being crucified, I think the Michael Vick hate has gone a little overboard.  The man didn't rape a co-ed, he didn't shoot anybody, he didn't beat up his girlfriend or wife, and he did jail time.  I really think it's time to let it go. 

Maybe I just don't love dogs enough or something.

No.

I'm with you. I'm not saying I like Michael Vick but I don't wish him physical injury.

He plays for Philly so I hate him in general, but I'm not on the Vick grudge bandwagon either, and I'm a pretty hardcore NFL fan. I think all the black fans that cheered for him and had signs lauding him when he came back to Atlanta to beat the Falcons was totally retarded. He's on the other team, you dipshits, and he helped kick your sorry asses. You don't cheer for the opposing QB when you are wearing a Falcons jersey. Ugh.

Cowboys losing to the Bears warms my heart more than it probably should. I am probably going to be punished by the Giants being embarrassed in the Manning Bowl.

The football gods are cruel.  I talked shit about Sanchez last week and this week Flacco looked like a first year college QB.    :ye_gods:

When are they going to put in a rule that when you call a timeout as the ball is snapped to fake out the kicker, you get a 100,000$ fine?

I would really love for that to happen, that shit is just stupid.

You can't understand Michael Vick hatred unless you understand one very important fact:  His unforgivable crime was NOT torturing and killing animals.  His unforgivable crime was torturing and killing CUTE animals.  

But nobody ever admits that, so they decry Michael Vick as the villain of the century while eating a pork sandwich as a chaser to their bucket of wings.  

I don't know anyone who thinks pit bulls are cute.

Pitbull owners ... sometimes.

Michael Vick is a shitbag and a twat who deserves breaking rocks in jail if for no other reason than fucking up a $50 million free ride. The fact that he happened to do it by killing animals that never harmed him in cruel and unnecessary ways for sport just makes my preference of his downfall on the field lean towards dog attack.

As for the football, ROFL to the Cowboys and the Vikings. 0-2 to start the season. LOVELY. I will say that the Dolphins looked really good despite only scoring 14 points. Henne was on point and had a few deep balls, didn't make mistakes and their defense ate the Vikings up when it mattered. They tried desperately to choke, fumbling twice in their own territory right after having gotten an important turnover. They play the Jets next week, and after the Jets performance, that should be a fun game.

Holy shit, Sanchez can throw the ball. He actually looked like an NFL QB. Flacco apparently, did not. He has no excuse against Cincy. 4 INT's when his running game is working and he has Mason and Boldin? Inexcusable. I must have talked him up too big this week.  :why_so_serious:

How the hell did the Eagles give up 32 points to the damn Lions? WTF?

Cowboys fans everywhere aren't panicking yet, but there should be plenty cause for alarm when your defense is that inept at stopping a mediocre offensive team. I'm not worried unless they go 0-3, which they certainly could against a surging (and lucky) Houston squad.

Indeed. On both accounts. Because so far, ouch.

I hate being right. :(


EDIT: Hooray, we aren't shut out! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I'm pretty sure no one is in favor of torturing even ugly animals.  People also don't get in too big of a twist about killing dogs considering millions are euthanized every year, so that isn't really it.  It's the combo of torturing and killing dogs in the pursuit of a rather barbaric blood sport that I think is where the confluence of outrage justifiably comes from.

I'm all but certain the 'Boys will go 0 for 3.  Houston is a much better team than either the Bears or the Redskins, and they're playing in Houston. 

Yeah, that's it.

That will certainly happen if the Cowboys continue to do the things that have cost them in the last two games:

1 - Rushing poorly - They averaged 1.8 yards on 20 carries against the Bears. That's horrific in the NFL and puts way too much pressure on the pass.
2 - Penalties - 6 for 50 yards against the Bears, 12 for 81 yards against the Skins. It's tough to win when you're constantly moving backwards on every drive at least once.
3 - Turnovers - The real killer. 3 in the Bears game, and 1 extremely costly fumble at the end of the half in the Skins game. The interceptions are entirely preventable if the Cowboys could actually establish a running game, and that fumble against the Skins may be the defining moment of the season if they don't make the playoffs. It would be the play that everyone remembered as the play that started the 0 for whatever skid.

Blah blah blah SUCK IT DALLAS blah blah blah.

My thoughts on football in the state of Texas:  while I obviously hate the Cowboys, I cannot seem to muster any sort of dislike for the Texans.  I guess it's just the Cowboys, specifically, that I hate, not all of Texas.  I didn't realize that until just now.

My thoughts on the Vick issue:  while I think he's a douche as a human being, he is very interesting as a player.  I enjoy the drama he is creating.

My thoughts on Manning Bowl II:  Snore.  Can we please stop putting these fucking teams on TV all them time?

Tom Brady needs to cut his goddamn hair.

Oh, and J-E-T-S.

So who is going to go first, Mangini, Phillips, Del Rio, Fox? I am thinking it'll be a race between Phillips and Mangini and hopefully the Browns win that one... but then again it's the Browns.

Unless they are like 0-8 or something, I don't see Jerry Jones firing Wade Phillips mid-season. Now, I do think he'll be gone at the end of the season unless they win the Super Bowl, which they won't. I'm not sure any of the other three will be bad enough to warrant a mid-season shitcanning.

Nice to see the Bears win one by kicking ass, rather than relying on a "controversial" call.

Favre - wake up you fucking old fool. I'd have done better in my pool playing Orton.

I'm actually delighted to see that Orton is having a good season even though I hate the Broncos. As much as he was derided in Chicago, they had a better chance to win with him there than with Grossman in '06. He's turned into a QB who takes care of the football (more than Cutler that's for sure) and it warms the cockles of my heart that the Bears mortgaged the future on Cutler when they had an acceptable QB in Orton.

Yeah, weird day yesterday. Bears looked great - Cutler with 3td and 0 int...wth? Sanchez looked not only like a nfl qb, but a good QB (yeah he had a lot of help, but he put the ball where and when it needed to be). Romo/Favre/Brady didn't look as sharp as they normally do.

As for the Mannings, while I was bored during the first half I was also incredibly impressed with the Colts over the Giants. I've also seen something I've never seen before...a substitution on an audible. That was some crazy shit that left me in disbelief for a moment. I knew Peyton has positioned himself to redefine a leadership role, but that took it to an even further level of how far ahead of others he truly is and how much power the Colts give him. Also, fucking Moore fumbling with 2 minutes left in the game and letting Eli throw that second TD. That may finalize my loss in this week's JV league.

Orton really wasn't that good of a fit though in Chi with that old offense. Had he remained and Martz been brought in he would have been fine, but I still think in the long run the Cutler move will pay off if they ever get him a good primary and a decent line. Cutler and Martz work well together, and Orton really fits in Denver.

Wade Phillips has deserved a firing for the last two seasons. He's a Jerry Jones puppet and we all hate him. He has no killer instinct and is a total yes-man for the owner. We need a coach who actually wants to win, gets fired up, and makes decisions based on football and not on keeping the owner placated.

Agreed, but would Jerry Jones ever hire someone who is not a yes-man? I don't think he would, given that I'd only consider Johnson and Parcells the two coaches that the Cowboys have had in the last 20 years that might not fit that criteria.

Jerry desperately wants the Cowboys to play in the Super Bowl Dallas is hosting this season. I wouldn't be surprised if he does something drastic to try and make that happen.

Pssh, well if that's all he wants then I have a simple solution for him.  Buy the Green Bay Packers.

Jerry may be disappointed.   :grin:

Jerry's an Arkansas hillbilly nutbag who is still butthurt over Jimmy Johnson being a shitheel and a winner. It was 17 years ago, fucking man up and buy us a winner dammit!

Since I have no interest in discussing the Seahawks game (  :facepalm: ), I thought this was too good not to pass along-
http://deadspin.com/5643010/roethlisbergerfreude-reaches-its-hilarious-apex

I dunno, it sure looks to me that Jerry Jones is really coaching the team, and indeed, Bum Jr. is just his puppet. Watching NFL network interview Dallas owner & coach, it certainly appears to me that Bum Jr. nothing more than defensive coordinator for the team, and Mr. Jerry is calling the shots (even usurping his coach on defense decisions).

So firing Bum Jr. would just be an admission that Mr. Jerry had failed in steering his coach-ship.

Unless he conducts an about-face, then brings in a truly independent minded coach / GM and allow them to operate without his overbearing interference.

Or maybe he lines up another sock puppet and slides Bum Jr. into another role, as a scout or cup washer or ring polisher…

Cowboys......hahahahahaha.    :grin:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5601286

Seems all that "Kevin Kolb is our guy" bullshit is finally over. Welcome to a career of backing up the other guy Kevin, enjoy your stay.

Great weekend of football.
NE lost, Baltimore lost, the NYG suck it up, Dallas goes down the drain, Arizona gets hammered and the Steelers win.

Anybody noticed the fact the Steelers won the game with 21 net passing yards? Prizeless...

Yeah, they were all over that on ESPN Radio on the way home. There goes any chance I had of rooting for the Eagles ever again. Fuck that team.

Whelp I'm glad I wasted a pick on my fantasy team for Kevin Kolb.  :oh_i_see:

This was so predictable.  Vick is such a great talent that it is hard to keep him off the field.  

"'Kevin is fine. It's not an injury-related issue,' Reid said. 'It's not about judging him. He's going to be a championship-caliber quarterback.'

This decision to go with Vick had been in the works for two days."

Fucking hilarious.  I bet they win a lot of games with Vick leading their "dawgs". 

I'll take that bet.  Here's why.

Vick is a natural talent.  He has a ton of physical gifts.  This only takes you so far as an NFL QB as a) you ultimately have to be able to read and understand defensive schemes and b) film will reveal Vicks tendencies in a few games. 

Once defensive coordinators know that Vick is a regular fixture, they will reconfigure their defenses to contain him.  Sure, Phili will continue to win the games that they should win, but they will have a hard time against teams with better prepared and/or more athletic defenses able to corral Vick.

Exactly. He is a one trick pony, and defensive coordinators will be able to scheme him out of the game pretty easily.

Vick's more in tune with the work ethic it requires to be an NFL QB than he was before prison. He should be able to adapt and read defenses better than he used to, and I think he's fully capable of effectively running an NFL offense to 20-30 points a game. However, I think he will get injured trying to do too much, or be prone to fumbles when he should have tucked the ball away.

Also, Philly won't lose because of Vick. They will lose because their defense is completely wretched. No other D in the NFL has given up more points than them, and one of their two games was against Detroit.  :uhrr:

I hope the Eagles lose every game.  I don't approve of letting Vick back in the league (even though he's a heck of a talent), and the way the whole McNabb thing went down was full of douche.

I've never been much of a Redskins fan, but I find myself pulling for them this year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5604002

The Kolb laffs keep right on coming... I'd venture a guess that my Brownies are in the mood to poke Reid some more.

<--------------

Man, I love Philly!

Or maybe to trade for Kolb.

So they trade their regular starter because the backup is ready for primetime, and just in case he sucks they have a 3rd stringer in place who they tried to deal in the offseason but couldn't find any buyers. Then, after the backup gets hurt and the 3rd stringer has a decent game, they are ready to trade the backup to be a starter somewhere else because he's obviously not good enough to carry the team. So now, the 3rd option is starting, because you couldn't deal him.

Sounds like you're ready to be an NFL GM Paelos.

C'mon, we all saw this coming from a mile off, didn't we?  It's not like Vick was your typical third stringer.  It's not much of a stretch to think that Reid was hoping for this exact situation to arise from the very start.  Instead of being the guy who starts Vick according to his own whim, and getting resoundly crapped on as a result...he is the guy that caved into to the whims of the fans and appears somewhat reluctant.  Win-win for him.  Win for Vick.  Win for McNabb.

Big lose for Kevin Kolb.  But nobody really gives a shit about that.

Except the people who fantasy drafted him.  :facepalm:

My family league is so in the shitter now.   Kolb and Flacco were my gifts from the autodraft.    :facepalm:

I'm hanging my entire season on Carson Palmer now. Joy.

Decent blog article on the Mike Vick-Kolb situation (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/18806/andy-reid-makes-a-knee-jerk-decision).  






Edit- WAP- unfucked the link

I couldn't agree more with that link. The Vick train is going to blow up in their faces, and I'll be ecstatic if it turns out they don't make the playoffs and the Redskins do.

The winner of the NFC East will be 9-7.  Anyone could do it.  Vick will blow up, though.  I would expect a few 5 INT games from him this season.

Watching Michael Vick fail is one of the wonderful treasures that the NFL offers the discerning fan.

Looking in a mirror.  My work league I ended up with Kolb and Palmer too.  RBs will have to carry that mess.

I ended up picking up the QB from Oakland that replaced slackass Jason Campbell. That's right, I'm pinning my bye week chances on Oakland.  :ye_gods:

The only way that failure could be better was if he played for Dallas.

I would pay money to see Jerry Jones' face when Vick got sacked for a fumble to keep the Cowboys out of the playoffs.

My autodraft picked Flacco and some backup QB (in ... Tampa?). I wound up picking up Hasselbeck to be my other QB.  :why_so_serious:

Girls playing fantasy football.  WAT?

I also had Kolb (but with the 'amazing' Chad Henne as a backup. Nothing against him in actual practice but he's a terrible fantasy QB.) I ended up being able to grab Vick off of waivers, though. Mixed feelings about that, because I don't really like rooting for him, but...

I know, it's crazy! I even beat Ingmar in our match up last weekend.  :why_so_serious:

There's five women in my 14 team league.

I think there's only two in mine this year (out of 12 teams), but I can't think of a single time I've played in a fantasy league where I've been the only woman.

Like being a Yankees fan, being a Cowboys fan means accepting that people love it when you suck:

(http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/0923/pg2_texans_cowboys_576.gif)

It is not that those of us who are non-bandwagon fans enjoy the Cowboys sucking, it is that we like to give a big "fuck you" to all the obnoxious fans that won't shut up about how the Cowboys are "America's Team" (hint, they aren't) and saying shit like "How 'bout dem Cowboys!" all the time.

I blame the grab bag full of douche that is Jerry Jones.

Certainly not "America's Team" anymore. We lost that when Irvin, Aikman, and Emmit finally left the building.

However a Neislen Rating Index (http://tvbythenumbers.com/2010/09/09/americas-team-dallas-cowboys-top-nielsens-nfl-media-exposure-ratings/62668) indicates that the Cowboys are by far the #1 television ratings grabber in the NFL as of last year. Next was the Steelers, then the Giants, and tied in a distant 4th were the Bears/Packers/Vikings.

How 'bout dem Cowboys?  :awesome_for_real:

Probably because those are the teams everyone watches in hopes that they will suffer humiliating defeat.  I would gladly watch a Texan/Cowboy matchup this weekend, despite the fact that I hate the one team and am indifferent to the other.  Ratings do not necessarily equal love.  I find it far more interesting that GB and Minnesota (and even Pittsburgh) were in that list....those are small markets.  That probably actually means that people like those teams.

Also, fuck the Cowboys.

Love us or hate us, just keep watching America!

IIRC, even when those teams are losing they still generally get good ratings since they are the classic, and most recognized, NFL teams. I think without the recent success of the Pats and Saints, they'd be replaced by SF and Mia who also generally have a decent following from what I remember.

The 49ers are a hard team to love right now, and I don't mean that only because they've not been very successful. They used to be a team full of likeable, charismatic guys. Now, from the coach on down, the asshole factor seems a lot higher to me than to when I grew up watching them. Nobody ever seems to smile anymore, they don't seem like they're having fun, and that makes them less fun to watch.

None of that matters if you have a QB. The Niners haven't had a QB that anyone could stand in the post Young era. Garcia was a nice guy and everyone misses him now and wishes him well but at the time he was too fruity too small and had too ugly a release not to mention he obviously lacked any leadership in the locker room.

Nothing more needs to be said about Alex Smith.

The only QB I can remember recently being enjoyable was that kid from I believe Washington who was 3rd string and also played special teams. He was a blast.

I agree with Ingmar that they are hard to love, but I'd guess that they still maintain a pretty good fanbase between Singletary/Crabtree/Davis/Gore/Willis. No, it's not topping the charts thanks to losing season in the shadow of the 80s and 90s with the number of legends and hall of famers they had in those two decades, but still a pretty large fan base.


If it was any other team, I'd say that I think it's more about having a solid focal point in general than it is the QB, and then give the Bears as an example. Seeing it is the 49ers and their history of QBs, yeah...you need a high quality QB or for that defense to be better than Bal and Pitts combined at this point to maintain that fanbase they had up until about 7-10 years ago.

Trying to freeze the kicker with a timeout negates your team's blocked FG, I love it so.  And it happened to the Saints for extra deliciousness.

I love it when that bullshit backfires. The rules committee seriously just needs to outlaw that on kicks. It would be simple to say that you have to call the TO before the players come set to the line on kicks.

Horrible football weekend for me. Even the Jets winning (which I sort of suspect they won't) won't make me feel better since they're a distant fourth place in "teams I root for" behind the Giants, "whoever is playing the Eagles" and "whoever is playing the Cowboys." :(

I feel sort of weird about how completely indifferent I am to the Redskins. Always have been! The most I can work up is "man I really hate that they're still named that."

So I moved from Pittsburgh, South Hills region down to good ol' Darlington, SC. Me and the roommate hit up a local sports bar with a senior VP at her company to watch the Browns play since he is a HOOG Browns fan. Now granted, the Browns are the Browns, but in that packed sports bar, every god damn time the Steelers did anything positive the whole place erupted in applause, and part of my soul died. I suspect the only real place to move to in order to get away from these fuckin fans is Dallas, TX which is  :uhrr: anyway... (no offense to anyone living there).

edit: Just noticed the JETS are on again in prime time. I am starting to get sick of Sancheese.

You could move to the Bay Area and watch what it's like when an entire region pretends football doesn't exist because oh God consider the alternative.

Actually, now that you mention it when I lived out there it was rather peaceful (circa 1997ish)

Obligatory: HOW BOUT THEM COWBOYS!  :grin:

I know right?  They didn't look completely awful! 

Of course this means I'm now 0 for 2 on my predictions on this forum.

You guys will just have to take my word that I have been right once or twice in the past, and may be right again some day.

Niners are well on their way to yet another spate of coordinator replacements. Good times.  :oh_i_see:

Eagles lead the division.   :awesome_for_real:

And next on Ripley's Believe It Or Not!....

Amen. I am so fucking sick of that shit. I'm trying to watch a game, and the fucking coaches keep interrupting the flow to try to "get in the heads" of the kicker. How about just not letting them get into fucking field goal range in the first place? Also, what the fuck is wrong with Garrett Hartley? Holy shit, that was a bad bad miss. No one to blame that on but the kicker.

The Colts looked good but not dominant, which is what I expect from them this year. The Broncos looked good but not championship caliber. And put me on the "All you fuckers who run down Kyle Orton can suck a nut" club, because you know what? He's actually a decent QB. He'll never be elite, but he's a shitload better than Rex Grossman (not hard) and I might put him in the Cutler level of play. Getting out of Chicago looks like the best thing that could have happened to him. McDaniels' system seems to fit him very well. He had more yards than Manning, he just had a few throws that didn't work and his running game could not bail him out. Seriously, 4 downs on the 1 and you can't punch it in? Wooga.

The Jets winning chapped my ass, but really, they were good. I also hate that Edwards got the winning TD. Fuckhead. Miami threw the ball too much, IMO. Ronnie Brown should have gotten more touches. Sanchez is starting to look like a capable QB. The fact that Cameron Wake never touched him pretty much ensured the Jets would have a good offensive game.

TONIGHT! PACKERS AND BEARS!

And it is football weather too. Was down to almost 40 degrees here, 2 hours south of Chicago, last night.

Yeah, during game-time tonight it should be a high of 60 and low of 50, classic football weather for one of the best rivalries.


In general, I think the Colts are right where they should be. They are pacing themselves well, not rushing to win, and yesterday they put points on the board without Garcon and Gonzalez while Wayne was held up by Champ Bailey (which as a Manning+Collie owner made me happy). Also, Orton is usually successful vs Ind's defense averaging what, 300 ypg coming into Sunday's game? I think yesterday went about as well as expected. IMO, what really hurt was Den being held to 36 running yards between Maroney and Buckhalter, as unless you have Manning/Brees/Brady at the helm it will be that much harder to punch it in while in the red zone without a running threat. That is obvious, but yesterday just proved that rule more true than ever (5 rz trips for 6 points for Den). Though great job by Den's O-line for only giving up 1 sack (to Mathis), and only a combined 3 tackles and 1 assisted tackle to Mathis and Freeney is remarkable. Even more credit to them since a lot of what I saw was 1v1 match ups vs two monster D-linemen.

Also, Orton vs Grossman? Way to set the bar really, REALLY low :awesome_for_real:. I do think McDaniels' system is the perfect fit for Orton which leads to a lot of his success. I don't think Orton leaving Chi was ever questioned as being bad for Orton, what was questioned was Cutler being in a bad position by moving to Chi and if McDaniels was crazy for doing that trade. So far, it seems he knew what he was doing.

As for freezing kickers, I hate it but I can't think of a single fair rule that would not be exploitable by a defense, or unfair to a defense, while preventing it.

Yeah, the Grossman comparison was obviously heavily slanted. But really, I think Orton could do at least as well as probably 5 or 6 other QB's that are starting on teams out there, and he's gotten a bad rap he doesn't deserve. Cutler is a fucking retard, though. I think he'd have done just as well as Orton in that system, maybe better. Throwing his little hissy fit set him back at least a year and I expect Martz' offense will improve his TD numbers but with a lot more INT's and sacks.

Seriously, WTF is up with Kansas City? Are they really good enough to challenge for a playoff spot or is it a scheduling thing?

I agree Orton is not a bad QB (definitely not as bad as most give him credit of being), but I think that he looks better than most QBs today since many aren't that great right now or are in systems that don't work for them. So yes, he's arguably a top 10 QB now, but the bar is low where he would normally be 15th-20th, which would still be better than most would give him credit for.

As for KC, it is mostly a schedule thing. They should be 2-1 with their schedule (maybe 1-2 if SF played like they did vs NO), but SD's pile of shit they produced in wk1 allowed KC to be 3-0. They aren't a good 3-0 team, and coming up they have a bye in wk4, then are away in Ind and Hou. So I believe that they're soon to be 3-2 imo, but then they have another easy two weeks at home following that Hou game (hosting Jac and Buf). Ultimately, one of the easiest schedules and they could make a playoff run if SD doesn't wake up (though SD has been solid after some bad starts to recent season).

The Washington Huskies could win the AFC West, so I see no reason why KC can't mosey their way through that division. Let's take a quick look:

They play Indy and Houston on the road, and will lose both, so that's 3-2 after their bye going into Week 7.
Next they play Buffalo, Jacksonville, and Oakland, which should be easy wins for them, but they might drop one, so let's say consevatively they go to 5-3.
After that it's Denver twice, Arizona, and Seattle. I think they split with Denver, drop the game to Seattle, and win against Arizona, 7-5.
Lastly, Chargers, Rams, Titans, and Raiders. Titans and Chargers are losses, Rams and Raiders are wins. 9-7.

Conservatively I have them at 9-7. In 2009, that gets you a wild card. In 2008, that wins you the division. I see no reason why they can't make it in the playoffs in 2010.

I'm pretty sure that the only team making the playoffs out of the West is going to have to win that division. Which shouldn't be hard, and I expect San Diego to pull it out at 10 or 11 wins. But the wild cards are coming from the other divisions.

That was faster than even I expected.  :why_so_serious:

Is it any wonder Smith is such a headcase? Maybe he'll actually have the same playbook 2 years in a row someday.

Wow, that was stupid. Poor Alex Smith - he'll never learn a full playbook at this rate.

Also, the Bills shitcanned Trent Edwards today. Looks like Fitzpatrick is their man. Either Edwards really was shitty or New England's D is really that bad. I'm betting on the latter option.

Now can someone please inform the Browns to do the same with Daboll, and take Eric Wright with him.

Brock Huard has a show on a local sports radio station in Seattle. A couple of weeks ago he was talking about all the great coaches he has played for or been associated with...he then went out of his way to say that Jimmy Raye 'didn't really impress' him. Coming from Pollyanna nice guy Brock, that is about as scathing an indictment as you can find. I knew it was only a matter of time before he got fired  :awesome_for_real:

Thanks to the Jets for giving up on Leon Washington after he broke his leg playing for them. He saved our asses yesterday. Holy fuck SD is bad at kick coverage. 2-1 and Hasselbeck has been really shaky so far. Rams will be tougher than in the past coming up, but they are still beatable. If the Hawks can get to the bye week 3-1....wow. They might just run away and hide in this godforsaken division.

I agree about the wild card. Right now in the AFC, it's easier to say who of the 16 are dead out. Right now, that list is:

Buffalo, Cleveland, Jacksonville, Denver, and Oakland. They have zero chance of making it to the playoffs. 11 other teams are all in contention.

In the NFC, it's Detroit, Panthers, and 49ers. It's ALMOST the Giants, but if they turn it around against Chicago and Houston, they at least have a shot in the divisional matchups.

I don't think Denver is absolutely out. I don't think they'll make it, but I don't think it's a sure thing they CAN'T make it. i think Arizona may end up being in that list of teams that can't make the playoffs. I think they will rue giving up on Leinart. He can't be any worse than Anderson has been.

Den is by no means out of it. Besides the next 3 weeks being rough (Ten, Bal, NYJ) and wk16 against Hou, they should do very well. SD, if they can win the next few games, will put themselves in a good spot for division title if they can build some steam going into, and hold together during, a tough mid season (NE, Ten, Hou, Den, Ind all in a row). This will be a close division between those two teams with KC giving a bit of a showing thanks to a 3-0 start and an easier schedule (they have Ind, Hou in the next two weeks, and Ten at wk16 as their tough games)

KC would probably be able to win it if the coaching improves and they stop trying to force Jones as their workhorse and stick with Charles who is running very well and breaking open plays. Oakland has about the same difficulty of the remaining schedule as KC, but I think they'll fare much worse than KC.

Who cares about Denver? 

I've been wrong about nearly everything this season, but I'm fairly certain they aren't going to win the Super Bowl.  The only person that should care about Denver is the owner.  His best hope is to snare a few extra bucks by making the playoffs.  Beyond that, just enjoy watching them play for as many weeks as you can. 

Denver's bricks. They will be lucky to go 2-4 due to their next 3 matchups. At that point, I don't seem them reeling off 8/10 wins to make it to the promised land.

I don't think anyone is saying they are going to win a SB, but that doesn't mean people can't find them (and for me, their division) interesting. Plus, it is nice to see Orton having some success as well as watching Bailey.

Like I said above:


I love watching Bailey as well.

Goddamnit what a ridiculous fucking game. 17 penalties by the Packers? SERIOUSLY? Fuck me. Two false starts when you're trying to get out of your own endzone? Two interceptions nullified by two FUCKSTUPID penalties? The Bears got handed that game on a silver platter by some of the worst discipline I've ever seen. And what the fuck was that by the special teams? After that second line drive punt straight to Hester that almost went back for a TD, the punter kicks it to him AGAIN? Where were the coach and the special teams coach? I tell you where they should have been, climbing up inside that punter's ass to make camp. There were a few passes that Cutler should not have looked so good on but really their offense only made 13 points. Cut out that stupid punt return, make that FG that got blocked and don't be fucking idiots and you're 3-0. Goddamnit, Packers. What the fuck?

Sucks too cuz Rodgers was looking great.

Yeah, the team itself played great if you ignore the penalties, special teams and lack of a running game. Rodgers was lights out when his O-line wasn't giving Julius Peppers neck hugs and getting the yips before the snaps.

One of those int that was denied by a pass interference call looked more like Cutler throwing in that location for the purpose of getting an interference call, the other one.....well sucks for GB :grin:

Ultimately, yeah, GB gave Chi a win and will still prove to be the better team if Chi doesn't straighten up and make catches when they need to (like, in the end zone instead of dropping a pass from the 1yd line). GB, in wk1 and 2, were looking much more disciplined with few penalties and should be fine overall given how good they looked when they weren't making stupid penalties.

Sorry Haem, but...    :raspberry:

 :yahoo:

Looks like Vick is going to be a strong candidate for the MVP, at this rate.  :ye_gods:

Will never happen.  Even if he deserves it.

Yeah the NFL is too image-conscious to ever let that happen. He will go back to being mediocre soon however, so the point is moot.

I heard Fran Tarkington say on the radio that the Eagles were his early pick to win the NFC.  :awesome_for_real:

Seriously, Vick has a bandwagon effect usually reserved for Tim Tebow when he was still at Florida.

I still think the Packers will unfuck themselves and win the NFC. Bears and Eagles will come down to Earth, Atlanta isn't good enough just yet, and whichever bottom feeder oozes out of the West will get murdered in the wild card round. Only real competition is the Saints.

Did everyone forget about New Orleans?  They're pretty good. 

New Orleans is winning the NFC, provided their kicker gets his head out of his ass. They aren't even firing on all cylinders yet and there are 9 points left on the table in 3 games from Hartley's misses. Plus, they still have 2 games each against Carolina and Tampa, AND they have games against Arizona, Cleveland and St. Louis. The only pushover teams left on Green Bay's schedule are 2 games against Detroit and one against San Fran and maybe that New York Giants game near the end of the year. They still have to make it through the rest of the AFC East teams not named Buffalo as well, and the AFC East is going to be a tough division this year.

I guess what I'm saying is the NFC Championship is running through the Superdome again this year.

If Brees stays healthy, the Saints have the best shot at the NFC repeat currently. However, I'm not sold on their defense, but does that even matter anymore? They were #19 in points allowed and #25 in yards allowed when they won the Super Bowl. After Pittsburgh winning in 2008 with the best defense in the NFL, I think we've seen a recent shift toward high-powered offense being much more effective. The Colts and the Saints were both shootout teams with questionable defenses that made it to the final showdown.

This year, you have teams that are tied or leading their divisions so far who are giving up massive points:

New England 2-1 and given up 82 points
Texans 2-1 and given up 79 points
Arizona 2-1 and given up 77 points
Eagles 2-1 and given up 62 points
Indy 2-1 and given up 61 points
New Orleans 2-1 and given up 58 points

And yet Pittsburgh is still undefeated. Just saying... considering I hate that town and that team.

Good thing John Carney is kicking for them this week then.

While that's true, they've yet to face off against a team that will legitimately contend for the division unless you buy into the Atlanta hype. Let's see how they fare against Baltimore, Miami, and New Orleans.

My early season pick for superbowl winner is the Steelers.  I think I had the Ravens in the prediction thread.  When Rothlisberger comes back they will be really tough.

Or...and I completely hope... they will completely implode on offense. That would be fantastic.

Yeah, it would.  I'm not optimistic though.

I was hoping the loss of Big Jen would have put them in more of a hole than it has.   Really, the loss of Polamalu last year seemed to have a more negative impact on the team than their QB this one.

Polumalu has been out this year some too, right?

Nope, he's been in all 3 games and should be in tomorrow's.

Now THAT was the Seahawks team I was expecting (and dreading).  :oh_i_see:

The Rams might actually win the west.  I want the Niners to win, not just hang in there. 

It's my fault, I started Hasselbeck on my FF team this week. :(

That is a truly awesome power, Sjofn.  Could you maybe start Vince Young next week?  Trade for him if you need to. 

Thanks.   :heart:

Giants/Bears. So far all I can say is the game is clownshoes. 9 sacks on Cutler so far in the first half?  :uhrr: And still only down by 3?  :ye_gods:

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/40252/j0k39c.gif)

That's also my fault, the Giants defense is sitting on my bench.  :uhrr:

You should start a mail order voodoo doll business!

I'm going to be intrigued by how many points they actually put up at the end of the day.

23.00 in the league I play in!  :heartbreak:


EDIT: And yes, I would've won my match up if I had started them!

Hi Jacqueline!

Welcome to F13.net.  Thank you for your almost in context post, plus the link for tickets.  I'd been hoping for a handy link, and presto!  There it was.  I'm sure we'll be seeing great things from you in the future.

Your New Friend,

Cyrrex

Seriously, we're getting moles in the sports forum now?  :ye_gods:

It's better than the politics forum  :grin:

Yep, two weeks for my prediction to already come true. That's a new record.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/05/sports/football/05fastforward.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/05/sports/football/05fastforward.html)

If Vick gets signed for $12 million, there is something seriously fucked up with the NFL.

The NFL has been fucked up for years: Ray Lewis and Big Ben say hi!

Eagles are in talks to get Marshawn Lynch.  I don't know if I should cry or not.

Dolphins (i.e. Bill Parcells) fired the special teams coach this morning.

Anyone seen Stallworth on the Ravens sideline lately? I swore I caught a glimpse the other day. Leonard Little might peak around the corner to say what's up too.

Might as well. That game was horrid.

Seahawks got him. Forsett is probably thinking "what the hell, I already spent years playing behind this guy in college, what do I have to do?"

Short answer, play better.  Though on the seahawks you are doomed anyway.

Kind of a headscratcher. At this point it is obvious that all Carroll and Schneider are doing is amassing as much 'talent' as they can, then seeing what pieces fit. I have never been a Lynch fan, so I am not overly excited about it. The one good bit is this should end the Julius Jones era in Seattle. One of Ruskell's worst moves- I don't know of a fan who liked the signing, and his play sure didn't build his fanbase any larger.

Now what? Forsett on 3rd down and returning kicks? Where is Washington going to get his touches? It feels like a move just to say 'we made a move to try to improve the team'. Until the O-line is fixed, it doesn't matter who they bring it.

I want to know which player Sjofn benched/played to get that result.  :oh_i_see:

No one that I can see (I somehow have no Dolphins on my team whatsoever), but I DID cause Randy Moss to not have a single reception.

...I started Brandon Marshall and Ronnie Brown. Oh god she's contagious

Randy Moss is getting traded to the Vikings.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/feed/2010-10/moss-to-vikings/story/report-randy-moss-trade-to-vikings-done-deal (http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/feed/2010-10/moss-to-vikings/story/report-randy-moss-trade-to-vikings-done-deal)

All for a third round draft pick? WTF? I didn't think he was that much of a cancer at NE, but I think this is a huge mistake by the Pats.

The Pats have consitently gotten rid of good but aging players for the chance of picking up more talent.  They draft real well generally speaking, even though they don't get tons of fanfare for it.  Now, I agree that Moss is still an asset to that team, but they've made so many moves that I've thought were sketchy over the years only to come out ok anyway that I basically trust their judgement at this point.  Also, Im not a New England fan, so it doesn't bother me much either way...

Sending one of the best deep threats in the NFL to a team with an aging QB that can't throw deep.  I laugh.  

This trade will only make sense to those on the inside.  There's a lot that we don't know.  I'm guessing that Minnesota is putting all of their eggs in one basket as they believe that they will have a lot of rebuilding to do in the coming years.  Take some talented aging players for the shot now, rebuild later.

It sucks that it will make me consider starting Favre over Orton.

The Patriots don't tolerate dissent or anyone who doesn't toe the company line. Moss wore out his welcome.

Moss hasn't caught a deep ball in ages.  He is great in the end zone but running 40 yards down the field to snag a ball out of the air with nothing but dust behind him isn't something he does any more.

But Brady is pretty much a 'dink and dunk' short passer, maybe causes Moss to not wanna run.

I personally love the move, because Moss is on my fantasy team and hasn't done anything in 4 games. It was obvious they were going to snub him, making him worthless. Now, he's going to a team where he will be an obvious #1, facing off against much shittier teams on a divisional basis, and I predict he will pull in 60+ receptions over his next 12 games.

I think Brady is a possession passer by scheme and not by choice.  All good QB's love to throw downfield.  I think that you're right about the latter.  I don't think that Moss fits well in a scheme that favors things he's not fond of doing (i.e. crossing routes, fly patterns to clear zones, etc.).  Welker is doing well for exactly these reasons.  He's a possession receiver.  I'd love to see Bess play for the Patriots.  He'd fit perfectly.

It seems as if Brady has made a lot of his money off of Wes Welker types that will eat it across the middle.  And every once in a while he gets loose downfield.  He can certainly go long with accuracy if he has the right receiver.

Oh my God, I made him get traded.


EDIT: Warning to any Ravens fans, I am starting Flacco this weekend, so he's going to suck.

Please start Adrian Peterson, too.  My team has been severely under performing (:angryfist: Chris Johnson :angryfist:) and so far every week my opponent has had their best week of the whole season.  Literally.  So please jinx AP.  And Miles Austin while you're at it.

Sadly, I cannot start people I do not have, and I have neither of those guys. And to be fair to my fantasy team, Vernon Davis and Frank Gore have not allowed the Sjofn Curse to affect them too badly, aside from the fact they're stuck on the 49ers.

I'm keeping the Giants defense on the bench to see if this hilarious trend of them ONLY owning the shit out of everyone if I bench them continues. My season is pretty fucked already, so why not? I need to amuse myself somehow!

On Moss:  I guess this is good for the Vikings, given that they have put all of their eggs into the 2010 basket already.  May as well give themselves the best chance they have this year, because next year likely begins an era of rebuilding.  The Patriots will land on their feet like they always do. 

On Lynch:  Running backs are never better than their O-lines (except for the rare Barry Sanders kind of talent, so maybe that gives you AP and Chris Johnson?  Maybe Steven Jackson?).  Seattle's O-line started it's downward spiral the day they got rid of Hutchinson.  Today, it downright stinks.  Marshawn Lynch will do no better than any of the others.

NOOOOOO! I picked the Ravens in my survivor pool.



Lynch is bigger than Forsett and tons more talented than Julius Jones, so I think he will be a marginal improvement. You are right though- O-Line blows and that will prevent him from doing anything special. Except maybe get arrested again.

Lynch will do better than Jones because Jones has never been near the level of a quality NFL running back. But yeah, with a stinker of an O Line, he won't save that team. Though I am beginning to believe the Hawks will win the NFC West simply by being the least sucky team in that shithole of a division.

Hey, it worked brilliantly for them in the 00s.  Course, for much of that period, they actually did have a good O Line.

Lynch has a wealth of natural talent, he's just been stuck on some crappy teams.  I'm interested in seeing how he handles the transition. 

Oct 17   @Chicago   1:00pm
Oct 24   Arizona   4:05pm
Oct 31   @Oakland   4:15pm
Nov 7   N.Y. Giants   4:05pm
Nov 14   @Arizona   4:15pm
Nov 21   @New Orleans   4:05pm
Nov 28   Kansas City   4:05pm
Dec 5   Carolina   4:15pm
Dec 12   @San Francisco   4:05pm
Dec 19   Atlanta   4:05pm
Dec 26   @Tampa Bay   1:00pm
Jan 2   St. Louis   4:15pm

If nothing else, you have to drool looking at the ease of the Seahawks remaining schedule.

Expect a story to surface within the next 24 hours - apparently, when Favre was with the Jets, he was sending cock pics to some chick.  Should be good entertainment to see how this one unfolds.

7 wins will easily win the division it looks like. Maybe even 6.

Bah... who cares, its NY.  :grin:

The media will care, that's who, and they'll shove it down our throats (pun intended).  Instead of hearing Jon Gruden figuratively suck Favre's cock this coming MNF, he may be able to break it down using the telestrator.

Would be much better with Madden yelling "BOOM!".

Brett Favre NAKED PICTURES? (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/07/brett-favre-naked-pictures-photos_n_754490.html)

Yeah, be careful if you visit the link to Deadspin. If you click on the video, expect to see some manflesh.

The voicemails sure sound like Brett Favre making booty calls.

You know?  I could give a shit about Farve showing his penis to a 26 year old model.

It actually annoys me much more that this woman is going to trash Farve for pretty much no reason YEARS after it happened.  Is she envious of all the non-existant attention tigers chicks are getting?

I was under the impression that it was the PR guy that was leaking the story, and that the hot sideline reporter chick wanted nothing to do with it.

But yeah, people like this piss me off.

This. Yeah, she seems to want nothing to do with the story.

That won't stop people from accusing her of being an attention whore, you sillies!

She was probably asking for it.  :why_so_serious:

Didn't the Jets just have a PR storm over how they acted towards a woman with that Spanish chick?

Why would a PR person with any connection to the team at all want to bring back the image of the jets being nothing but cavemen (even in the not too distant past)?

I'm thinking that it's because Favre is bigger than the Jets and playing for a different team now. A lot of people probably won't associate the Jets with another shit-storm as they'll be busy associating this with Favre and the Vikings. I know that I, at first, didn't even give thought about this being another incident with a Jets player and instead only thought of Favre and the Vikings.

Yeah, this is a Favre incident...I don't think it will reflect poorly on the Jets.  In fact, having the PR guy supplying the info may actually put them in a good light.

The timing is curious, however, considering they play each other on Monday night.  I wonder if someone will spam all the sideline reporter girls with Favre cock pics before the game.

A local radio show reported this, and as an aside they asked their recent chick intern about it, apparently she and several friends had gotten similar pics from dudes in the past. Apparently it's perfectly normal for some guys to think sending their junk over the phone is acceptable. These people are completely bonkers.

Christ, has it come to this?

(http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/215523224_uZpXy-L-2.jpg) (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/3/14/)

So, so true.

I should write letters of apology to both Jermichael Finley and Mark Clayton for being in my starting fantasy lineup.  I apparently have a kiss of death that rivals Sjofn's.  As if that wasn't bad enough, my opponent started Shaun Hill of all people this week.  Apparently I really pissed off some football gods at some point.

Giants defense got put on my bench again as an experiment, once again they did pretty well. I am perfectly willing to sacrifice my FF season (especially since I was 1-3 going into this weekend) to keep them playing well. :why_so_serious:

Wow, what a shitty day of football. The Colts looked mostly terrible beating the Chiefs, whose defense is better than I thought and whose offense is pretty clueless. The Packers piss away a winnable game. The Bears prove that they don't need a QB to beat the Panthers. Both the 49ers and the Saints fumble, stumble and throw away winnable games.

But at least the Cowboys are now 1-3.  :awesome_for_real:

This is one insane season... a few good teams and the rest fall into mediocrity. AFC South standings  :ye_gods: likewise for the West... fuck it, pretty much all the conference divisions are mixed. The playoffs/wildcard races should be interesting to say the least.

Yeah the NFC in particular is just sad this year so far. Atlanta may make it all the way by sucking the least. The AFC isn't much better but there are at least a handful of teams including the Ravens and Jets that are trying to separate themselves from the rest. I find the AFC South particularly amusing at moment since 1) all the teams are 3 - 2 and 2) the "top" two teams have given up more points then they've scored.

The Panthers loss today, how many receptions did the Bears actually complete? Six? Nine?


Four interceptions to boot.  :awesome_for_real:

Picking games the last two weeks has been impossible.  Nothing makes sense anymore.

The NFC is horrible this year. No team deserves to win the Super Bowl out of that conference. The Bears and Falcons tied for the best record? WHAT?  :ye_gods:

And don't forget the Tampa Bay Bucs are not far behind, as are the Giants, Redskins, Eagles and Cardinals. That NFC West was already a joke and now it's a HUGE joke. St. Louis wins two in a row then not only can't score more than 6 points against the Lions, they GIVE UP 44 to them? WTF? I have no idea what's going on these days. It's the first time since 1970 that the league does not have a 4-0 team.

The Saints... man, I just can't pinpoint what the hell is wrong with them. None of the wideouts are really performing - Shockey is the leading receiver. Yeah, they've had some injuries, but can Bush's absence be contributing that much? Maybe it's that the running backs aren't being considered dangerous in the passing game, leaving the other receivers covered where they might not be otherwise.

The breakdown that Merril Hoge did (for ESPN, I think) intended to prove that it is precisely because there are now no receiving threats coming out of the backfield.  The linebackers only glance quickly into the backfield and then drop into coverage...where with Reggie, you might get two or even three of them hesitating, and at least one guy permanently assigned to him.  For all the talk of how Bush hasn't ever achieved the lofty heights expected of him, everyone still says that he changes the dynamic of an offense, if for no other reason than it being suicidal to let him have the ball in open space.  Makes sense, I suppose.

I might buy that except that even when he was playing, the Saints weren't scoring touchdowns. Their best offensive game was against Atlanta and Bush was in for much of that game. Their wideouts are just underperforming.

Yeah, I dunno.  Brees himself is probably underperforming, too.  And defenses are giving them their best, as was expected.  Defense isn't always rising to the occasion, either.  In other words, it's probably just a simple combination of all of these things.

Losing to Arizona just pisses me off, though.  Fuck Arizona.

It is the beauty of the NFL that during the off-season, the winning team is studied to death.  The player quality is close enough across the league that an intelligent and well-executed defensive scheme can neutralize the best offense given time.  This is why it is so hard to win consecutive Superbowls.  This also explains Vick's effectiveness in his first games.  None of the opponents had any game plan against a QB who might tuck and run.  NFL teams are a bit bureacratic when it comes to play design and practice.  It takes a few weeks or more for defensive playbooks to adapt and then the defense has to learn the new playbook.

Saints self-destructed. And Cardinals had lady luck smile upon them again (just like Oakland game where Janikowski missed 3 FG, including one at end of game) — their only offensive TD was when BYU/Mesa boy QB got creamed and coughed up ball, yet OL recovered and advanced for a TD. The other 2 TD were on Betts fumble return and Brees pick 6. And then there was a big KR to setup another Cardinals FG.

But good thing I didn't put money on game because if I did I would have bet a fortune on Saints giving 7.5.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/football/nfl/wires/10/11/2020.ap.fbn.browns.big.problems.1st.ld.0178/index.html

/cry cry cry

Nothing like possibly getting the nod at Heinz against one of the most killer defenses in the league.

Oh Jesus.  That poor kid. 

Yeah, fuck me. Not only have to start against one of the best defenses in the league, but to have to do it with the Browns.  :awesome_for_real:

Hey now... the O-line is actually the only thing working atm. Of course big Joe Thomas had a shit game - but that is an odd occurrence.

Hey Favre - how about those turnovers?  :drill:

He looked broken through much of the game.  The last 2 min drill was more "need to get out of here" than it was "lets score!"

In all honesty, the Jets shouldn't have let it get that close. They blew a bunch of opportunities in the red zone and settled for FGs.

He should have sent them photos of his penis first to soften them up. Go viral on their asses.

I'm not sure why the Vikings insisted on bringing Favre back.  He wasn't the reason they lost, but man he just doesn't have the fire any more. 

Tarvaris Jackson

They could have picked up Leinart :ye_gods:, which would have at least been an upgrade from Jackson.  Of course he may have less fire than Favre, at this point. 

Favre sells tickets now, regardless of his success.

Unlimited text messages.  :awesome_for_real:

...but only limited in their content. (http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff26/stuabrtow/cuccoan.gif)

At least they weren't goatse shots. That'd be fun.

Putting aside my Browns fan hat for a second, this is quite possibly the worst announcing in any football game I have ever heard. Constant miscalls in timeouts, score, and just the events of the game. And then there is the audio fellatio of Big Ben...all fucking game. You'd think Jesus was playing. Even the overthrows and miscues the announcers are blaming on the receivers. Incredible... I had to turn it. At least McCoy is not dead yet, but seriously James Harrison? Headhunt much out there?

Who the fuck onside kicks in the second quarter?

That's my usual reaction for any game that Rapistberger is in.  Announcers always seem to fight over who can slobber over his knob more.

Nothing can top the rim job the MNF guys were giving Favre last week. Jesus.

Oh and Sauced?

WOOHOOOOOOOO! Pity they couldn't have done that last year at home, but wow, what a big win  :awesome_for_real:

Gruden fellates whoever the best MNF QB is that he has to cover that week.  He's just especially bad when he has an actual top talent to talk about.  It's a shame that he's so fucking annoying, because deep down beneath all that, he seems to understand the game quite well.

I was dreading that game.  The Bears are at their best against teams that excel at one dimension.  Teams like Seattle that do everything "okay" just murder Chicago, who turn into soft goo when they can't all focus on shutting down one particular aspect of an offense.

And, of course, the offensive line is still dog shit.  Cutler looks done, particularly if Martz continues to call 80-20 pass-run plays.  0-12 on third down!

They are who we thought they were, indeed.

Adding Marshawn Lynch can't be understated, though - he looks legit, and gives Seattle a real personality.  They should easily ride Lynch/Forsett to the NFC West title.

The biggest problem with Martz's offense at this point is that it assume those idiots can pass block.  They cannot.  Throw a cornerback blitz at them and they are completely fucking clueless.  Of course, it doesn't help that Martz doesn't seem to adjust anything.

Marshawn appears legit.  He's going to help that team.  His stats won't back it up, but he had a handful of really strong runs.  And then Forsett came in as a change-of-pace back and just ripped them up.  It'll be interesting to see how that combo develops.

Anybody want to gamble on whether Wade Phillips makes it to the end of the year? :grin:

Martz has never known nor given a shit about pass blocking. EVER. He is the reason Kurt Warner is no longer playing, he's the reason Marc Bulger threw almost as many INT's as TD's when he was QB in St. Louis, and he's the reason Cutler had only 17 out of 39 complete but had almost 300 yards. I'm amazed he's only gotten 3 INT's this year - but with 23 sacks in less than 150 dropbacks, it's a wonder he's still conscious. Martz is rubbish at pass blocking schemes with the best of O lines. He figures if you chuck the ball deep long enough, it won't matter. Both Bulger and Warner's careers have been hampered/shortened by injuries they should not have suffered under a coach who gave a shit about blocking.

EDIT: Phillips will make it to the end of the year. The NFL is one place where a mid-season coaching change just doesn't do any damn good 99% of the time, especially a head coaching change. Jones will ride out the season with Phillips then either install Garrett as head coach next year or shitcan the whole lot and get a real coaching staff. That Cowboys/Vikings game last night was fucking awful. Neither team deserved to win. The winner was the one who screwed the pooch the least.

It was actually kind of amazing that Seattle kept blitzing safeties and Chicago just could NOT figure it out. It wasn't like they went out of their way to really disguise it either. I took a chance and started Seattle D over Dallas D in 2 of my leagues. Definitely a good choice. Was shocked we didn't get any turnovers, but a shit ton of sacks and a safety was nice.

If I didn't loathe Cutler I would feel sorry for him. At least it was 220 pound safeties hitting him and not LBs or DLs. That would have killed him.

I really hope the Cowboys promote Garrett.  That would be spectacular. 

I think Phillips has some kind of mind control of Jones, blackmail or something.  Jerry Jones has never hesitated to shit-can winning coaches, much less fuck-ups like Phillips and yet, year after year we're looking at Philips on the side-line.

Because Mr. Jerry is the de facto head coach and Bum Jr. is just a puppet, with only coordinator power… …Mr. Jerry dumping Bum Jr. would be an admission of Mr. Jerry's failings…

 :oh_i_see:

The Cowboys are a good team who can't stop shooting themselves in the foot with horrible, stupid, mind-grating, tv-throwing, dumbass fucking penalties. 21 points is good enough to win 10 out of the 13 NFL games this week. 27 points last week was good enough to win all but two games. The Cowboys have an impressive passing offense, but their running game is horrible, their turnover margin is 2nd worst in the league, and only the Lions and Raiders take more penalties.

IF they could take less than 8 penalties a game and IF they could stop turning the ball over twice a match, they are fully capable of reeling off a 3 game winning streak against the Giants, Jags, and Packers. Suddenly you're back at .500 looking at a very questionable NFC East who might have a leader at 6-3.

The NFC as a whole is questionable this year.

As for Dallas last night, you take away one penalty, they win that game - the Miles Austin pass interference call. Seeing the replay, I thought that was a stupidly bad call. It didn't even look like Austin put any real effort into a shove, but it got called. That one play alone would have won it. Or, you know, not giving up a 95-yard kickoff return to start the second half. I will give the Vikings credit though. They made a lot of good open field tacklers.

Also, fuck Marion Barber in his eyesockets. If fantasy football ever started giving points for most 3rd & 1's converted, he'd be gold. Instead, he's dead weight this entire season.

As a 49er fan I kind of wish we had lost to the Raiders, as that probably would speed up the timetable for the complete and utter dismantling of the coaching staff that we need.

We continue to run an offense that is totally unsuited to our personnel, as far as I can tell just out of stubbornness. Every time we put Smith in the shotgun, he does pretty well. We should maybe catch on to that and do that as our primary set, but Singletary has this fixation with up the middle hit-em-in-the-mouth football that he just can't seem to get past.

How much of a real role does Singletary have in offensive play calling?  I thought he was mostly focusing on defense and relying on his OC to run the show.

Play calling, not so much, but setting the offensive philosophy behind the play calling, I am pretty sure that is in his bailiwick.

Hard to go to a shotgun based offense when Frank Gore is so good at smashmouth football. But you know, if the 49ers don't want that smashmouth back, I'm sure the Packers could use him.

Who am I kidding? Gore probably couldn't run 2 feet behind the Pack's offensive line.

Ultimately I think Gore is talented enough to be successful running out of whatever set we put him in - I don't think the same can be said about Alex Smith, which is why I'd be looking at making the change.

Man, isn't that the truth. The funny part is it's not just that game either. The opener against Washington, if you take away the holding call on the last play, they DO win that game. You change those two penalties, and suddenly we're 3-2 and right in the thick of the NFC race.

Man, just the thought of Jerry Jones' tears at his lose to Boxcar Faurve has made my day.

Even the Raider's are smart enough to know when they've fucked up a first round draft pick by getting rid of JaMarcus Russell. This is Smith's 6th fucking season. How many more seasons do they need to figure out whether or he's their "quarter of the future*"?

* "future" cause he's clearly not "of the present"

I can't imagine he'll stick around after the season, but I also won't be horribly surprised if he goes somewhere else and performs adequately in an offense that actually plays to his strengths. See: Shaun Hill (until he broke his arm this weekend).

It boggles my mind that my fantasy team has 3 of the top 6 running backs in fantasy points scored this season, yet my team is 1-5 after this week.  :uhrr:

The Giants are continuing to do well with their defense sitting on my bench, I am seriously considering picking up a spare defense to cover the Colts bye so I don't have to risk upsetting my superstition in a week where we play the Cowboys.

I've somehow managed to claw to 3-3. Two of the people on my bench tore shit up, so THAT trend is continuing, it just didn't cost me the game the past two weeks.  :awesome_for_real:

Well it is a passing league now.  :why_so_serious:

So- best 2 games (of teams I hadn't yet used) for the local sports radio survivor pool was Oak@DEN and ARZ@SEA. I was fairly confident in the Seahawks, but didn't want the double devastation if they lost the division lead and my survivor pool in the same game. So I took Denver.

Now I have extra free time on Thursdays the rest of the season (when the picks are due). WTF.

Jesus Christ, Eli. ><

Thank god Dallas is done. Not that I have anything against them in particular, but their fans are way too cocky. Now to dispatch the Steelers season . . .  :grin:

This is not likely to happen.

Yep I've thrown in the towel for the season. We shot ourselves in the foot, we took too many penatlies, we committed too many turnovers, and just when we looked good at the beginning of a game and got some momentum our QB goes down with a busted shoulder.

Game over, man. Game over.

Now to throw all my support behind the Georgia Bulldogs beating up on Florida this weekend!  :drill:

Dallas didn't really look that good early. They got 13 points on turnovers when they should have had at least 17 if not 21. Miles Austin was dropping passes early, they still can't run the fucking ball for shit - which is a goddamn crime considering they have 3 backs who could start on most other teams. The play that Romo got hurt on was criminal. No LB should get that free a shot without even a chip. That RB is going to be waking up in a cold sweat from that one. Even if they hadn't lost Romo, I'm not sure they'd have won that game. Their defense couldn't stop the run, and at a few points during the game, their secondary just plain disappeared. If the Giants special teams hadn't been so damn bad, it would have been an even worse laffer.

I don't take delight in Romo's injury, but I do take delight in saying the Cowboys' season is well and truly deceased. They now have the same record as the Detroit Lions. Suck it, Jerry Jones. Bye bye Wade Phillips, and likely Jason Garrett as well.

What the hell happened? I DVR'd it and missed the end of the fourth quarter. The Gints were beating the pants off them and then I saw the sportscenter final score and it was close!

The Giants dicked around and Dallas drove down the field for a TD late. Then, they tried an onside kick that they should have recovered, but didn't. If they had, there was still 30s left on the clock to make a miracle happen, but who cares. I've wanted Wade gone for two years now, and there's no way he survives this. The funny thing is, it may not matter if the entire league goes on strike next season.

At this point, I say with a QB out, no shot at a title in any form, and no real opportunity to improve anything but defense, let's just tank the whole fucking thing and grab a great draft spot. I want the best future QB who can take over for Romo after he starts wearing down in his early 30s. Or I want a decent cornerback who doesn't screw us.

My particular Jesus Christ, Eli was related to him throwing two interceptions super early in the game. He fucked up a couple of other times in the game too, he can be pretty Favre-rific in the "I will chuck the ball up and hope MY team is the one that comes down with it!" sense.

The one thing I'll give him is he threw those two interceptions but didn't curl up and die of despair.

Eli is too stupid to remember he's thrown terrible passes early on. It's a blessing really.

Well, since the Giants seem likely to stick with him for the foreseeable future, I'll take it I guess. :P

Cause God knows those 1st round draft QB's are always such a sure thing when it comes to making the transition to the NFL.

Yeah, it's a waste taking a QB with a high draft pick. 

Don't hate on Eli so much, Giants fans, just think of all the teams with really terrible quarterbacks out there.  Eli, for all his faults, is pretty solid both mentally and in terms of production, and he doesn't injure himself.

Eli is a very good QB.  Most teams would trade their starters in a second for him.  The best thing about him is that he doesn't get dejected and therefore can bounce back from a couple of bad plays pretty easily. 

Eli strikes me as an example of how far an above average talent can go in the NFL with an outstanding work ethic for preparation.  His brother demonstrates the same work ethic with more natural talent.  I think that Brees and Rogers may be the most gifted in terms of ability.  It makes me stagger to think what Brees/Rogers could be with Peyton's ability to see the field.

Note: Interestingly, Peyton Manning and Rogers were both 1st round picks. I think Brees went in the second round.

Don't underestimate how good those Giants wideouts are, though. I didn't realize it until last year, but he's got a pretty damn good set of receivers. Steve Smith, Nicks, Hickson and Manningham could all probably start at a #1 or #2 on most teams in the NFL. I'm not quite sure how they got such fantastic talent so quickly. The Giants issues all come down to lack of discipline on the O Line and drama with the running backs, as well as inconsistency at the key positions like QB. Eli typically has at least 1 dumb delay of game penalty per game, and when he loses, he often beats himself with INTs caused by a chuck.

Rogers didn't come in right away and was the backup to one of the greatest QBs in the history of the game. That makes a huge difference for first rounders I think.

Very few first round picks go on to do well when thrown in right away. I thnk a lot of teams spent the last 15-20 years picking "instant starter" QBs high in the draft thinking that all high first rounders would end up being like the stars of the class of 83.

If you take away that holding penalty Romo gets his head caved in before he can throw the ball.

Don't tease me like that. 

So bitter, so bitter.

Hixon, and he's on IR.  I was 10 feet away at Giants Stadium when he fucked up his knee at practice this May. :(

Hixon is not a #1 WR.  He's fantastic in the return game, but there's a reason why Denver cut him after 2 years.  Smith, Nicks and Manningham are all much much better.

And to all you Eli haters out there.  Pfft.  He's a top 10 QB for sure, not top 5 but top 10.  And a majority of his INTs this year were from tipped passes where balls hit the receiver in their hands and it bounced away.  

In no way is he "average talent".  Average Talent does not get you a Superbowl MVP.

It's a shame that their best WR went to jail. 

Not really a shame, actually.


Romo getting hurt:  I get no joy from that.  I like Romo.

Dallas losing yet again, on the other hand?   Ahahahahahahahahgrrbllbllllllggggh!!!

Fucking win.

It absolutely does if you're the QB for the winning team and they can't give it to "every single person on the Giants defense." The Helmet Catch, as fucking awesome as that play was, was also EXTREMELY dangerous and holy shit if that guy hadn't caught it through sheer force of will there's no way we'd even be discussing if Eli is awesome or not.

Look, I'm not saying he's terrible, but he IS the posterboy for "rated much higher than he probably should be because he plays for New York" that people were accusing Sanchez of being.


EDIT: And yes, Plaxico Burress makes me sad. Partly because his first name cracks me up.

Eli totally deserved winning the MVP.  He's also just an above average QB.  The two aren't mutually exclusive.

They really really aren't. Above average in the NFL is still pretty damn good. But you take away that O line or those fantastic wideouts and Eli gets pancaked and throws lots of INT's. He makes bad decisions at times where he'd be better suited checking down or throwing it away and his mechanics sometimes get wonky for no reason and that's when he overthrows guys for INT's. What makes him above average is when he gets zoned in and has protection, he can be lights out, like he was down the stretch in 2007.

But he ain't elite. Elite QB's active now: Peyton, Brady... ummm, that's it. Those are the only two I'll go so far as to say are elite. Favre used to be, McNabb could have been when they went to the Super Bowl, and Ryan, Eli, Rodgers, Romo and Rivers have all got the potential, but until they can win the big one, they ain't elite to me, no matter what kind of numbers they put up.

Okay, who's for sure better than Eli in the league right now?

1.  Peyton
2.  Rogers
3.  Matt Ryan
4.  Drew Brees
5.  Rivers
6.  Brady

I think some would put Ben Rothlisberger and probably Tony Romo ahead of Eli, but I think that's debatable.  

I would take Ben and Romo ahead of Eli, along with all the others on your list.  I would probably take Orton, too.  I would take Vick over Eli (forget dog related issues, I'm thinking talent).  I might take Kolb.  McNabb would be a toss up.  Freeman down in TB is a close call.  Carson Palmer (who is overrated) would be a tie.  A year from now I imagine I'd add Sanchez to this list, and maybe Bradford too.

I could probably think up another couple, but I count 10 that I definitely take ahead of Eli, and several more that are a close call.  He's the very definition of an above average QB.  He's on a New York team.  He is surrounded by talent on both sides of the ball, always has been and always will be.

This part of the list is a bit crazy.  No way Orton is better than Eli Manning.  Vick I agree with if you had to draft one of the two in an expansion draft, but he hasn't been the "better quarterback" yet.  McNabb's too old, Kolb sucks, Palmer sucks and Freeman is an unknown commodity really. 

I can see why you would say that, but none of these guys have had near the talent around them that Eli has had.  I simply posit that, if you surrounded them with similar talent, they would meet or exceed Eli's output.  Vick by a mile.  And as much as it surprises me, Orton too.  The rest on the list are close calls.

None of them has won shit either.  I take the Superbowl winning MVP over a marginal increase in talent.

I would put Eli in upper third of league QBs — he did win Super Bowl and he was no Trent Dilfer in that endeavor. But he's wildly inconsistent in play since.

Maybe even better, as I'd only put Brady, big brother Peyton, Big Ben, Brees, maybe Favre, but he probably has eclipsed the fading Favre now. Kurt Warner, if still playing, I would definitely rank ahead. Rivers? Maybe, but Rivers has choked it up in the playoffs and Eli is sporting SB jewelry. Aaron Rodgers if he continues good play and actually accomplished something in the post-season.

Can't think of anyone else… Carson Palmer? No. Gaudy stats, but not much playoff success. Cutler or Orton? Would not even place those in the upper half of league QBs. Vince Young and Vick if they could stay healthy (and avoid extracurricular troubles) and become more consistent.

The Giants just need their offense to not fuck up, not even be good, just don't fuck up and give the other team the ball on their own 20 or whatever.


Their defense seems THAT good to me, they've been dominating almost every time I've seen them play this year.



Plus they've killed half a dozen QB's already  :grin:

Steve Smith or Hakeem Nicks went to jail?

My sarcasm senses are tingling. 

Well I think you're completely wrong.  Eli took the team 90 something yards for the go ahead touchdown with 2+ minutes left.  In the superbowl.  Thats some un-average shit right there.

See my comments about the Helmet Catch.

Not Really.  Steve Smith was the first WR for the Giants to go to the Pro Bowl since Homer Jones.  He also set franchise records last year.  

Nicks is superman.


The Giants are 2nd or 3rd in the NFL in explosive plays (plays over 15 or 20 yards).  They have the leading rusher in the NFL year (albeit with one more game over AP).  And they arguably have the best trio of WRs in the league.

I think 6 or 8 of the INTs Eli has thrown bounced off the WRs hands.  Both hands.  If the ball hits your hands as an NFL WR you need to catch it.

So Eli, evading the rush that time and getting the ball out has nothing to do with it also?  I mean Eli can't throw the ball and catch it as well.  Good players make good plays.  They also get lucky.  But in the end he needed a TD to win.  He got it.

Yeah, I'd be careful here.  Eli had the benefit of a) some pretty incredible catches (see helmet catch reference above), b) a 4th down conversion by Jacobs, c) a dropped Asante Samuel interception, d) poor tackling by New England on a near sack, etc.  

I think Eli is in the top 3rd of the NFL, but that's more due to his preparation than natural talent.

No, he can't catch it as well, and I was surprised he wasn't sacked (most of the time he would've been, that's just how those plays go), but you have to admit that most of the time, had he not been sacked (which again, I must stress, he would've been), that ball he chucked up with nothing more than a prayer guiding it would be incomplete or intercepted, and oops now the game is basically over. That ball was not really very catchable, but Tyree somehow forced it to be caught. My theory is that God hated the Patriots that night.


EDIT: Shit, how did I forget about the near-INT. Really that whole drive was a bunch of crazy shit. Can't fight fate, man.  :grin:

So?  There are a lot of "ifs" in the game of football.  It's a game of itches.  It's what a player does with his opportunities that counts.  

I mean we can play this game with almost any player in the game if you give me 4 excuses and ifs.

Tyree was incredibly open in the middle of the field.  Wide open.  He was also a terrible receiver.  An elite WR would of probably caught that much better.

My point is merely that he was incredibly lucky (and I am glad for it, being a Giants fan), not incredibly good. The entire team played the fuck out of football that night, and the only reason Eli got MVP is because quarterbacks are easy to single out and no one is going to argue with giving a QB the MVP. I don't really think there WAS an MVP on that team that night, they were all basically playing the game of their lives.


FAKE EDIT: Tyree was NOT "incredibly open." He has a dude right up his ass. Who is probably still wondering how the fuck Tyree (who I agree was also not awesome) caught that goddamn pass.

On a lighter note:

The Texas DPS are cracking down on speeders heading into Dallas . For the first offense, they give you 2 Dallas Cowboy tickets. If you get stopped a second time, they make you use them.
 
Q.What do you call 47 millionaires around a TV watching the Super Bowl?

A..The Dallas Cowboys


Q.What do the Dallas Cowboys and Billy Graham have in common?
 
A.They both can make 70,000 people stand up and yell "Jesus Christ".


Q.How do you keep a Dallas Cowboy out of your yard?
 
A.Put up a goal post.
 
 
Q.What do you call a Dallas Cowboy with a Super Bowl ring?
 
A.Old

Q.What's the difference between the Dallas Cowboys and a dollar bill?
 
A.You can still get four quarters out of a dollar bill.
  

Q.How many Dallas Cowboys does it take to win a Super Bowl?
 
A.Nobody remembers.
  

Q.What do the Cowboys and a possum have in common?
 
A.Both play dead at home and get killed on the road!

It's a good thing I hate the Cowboys because otherwise I would start to feel almost sorry for them.  :ye_gods:

As Eli threw the ball there was not a person around Tyree for about 5-10 yards in any direction.

Eagles will now win the division.

I'll take that bet.  The Giants have a much softer schedule.

And Eli Manning   :wink:

 :oh_i_see: Not with Vick at the helm, bucko.

This season is pretty much a dream come true for Favre haters.

You say that like it is a bad thing.

At the press conference after the game he said something like "nobody knows my body like me" and my first thought was "and Jenn Sterger." Zing!

In an epic moment that sums up why the Cowboys are the worst I've seen them since 1989 when I first started going to games, the ball actually hit Jason Witten in the head this week because he wasn't looking. I've never seen this shit happen at the pro level in my life. It wasn't deflected, it wasn't a blown coverage, Kitna actually tight spirals a line drive into the Star on the side of Witten's head.

Here's a shitty video of the guy taping the game. You can't see the initial play well, but you get a full-blown-can't-miss-it replay of what happened. Also, notice how the Jacksonville secondary start laughing after the play and asking each other, "Hey man, did that ball just hit him in the fucking head?"
http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/ball-hits-wittens-helmet/ (http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/ball-hits-wittens-helmet/)

Yesterday was a good day for me at watching football. The Packers D played pretty well, but they got REALLY FUCKING LUCKY. The two INT's they got could have easily been given to the receiver instead, and it just so happened they were such flukey exceptions they couldn't be reviewed. The offense did just enough, thanks to the defense not letting any points in. What was more important was that the O line actually protected Rodgers AND didn't give up a shitload of dumb penalties. If his receivers hadn't have had the dropsies, they'd have won by a lot more. Meanwhile, the Vikings choke on another one and Favre gets blasted in the chin. What's funny is that they were doing well early in the game when they played like they should have been playing all season - i.e. run a shitload of AP and pass off of that. They got cocky last year when Favre started lighting it up, and they changed their entire game plan. They became pass happy. With Favre a Kirt Warner-like gargoyle in the backfield, they can't do that as much. So they started with lots of AP and Favre was playing well. Second half and they forget all that and Favre gets hammered. Good times.

Also, Dallas.  :why_so_serious: It's just a comedy of errors now. Jacksonville really isn't that good, but saints be praised, the Cowboys are just that fucking bad.

Let me spell out the rest of the way this season will go:

GB - loss, Giants - loss, Detroit - with Stafford healthy they win, Saints - BAD loss, Indy - BAD loss, Philly - loss, Washington - loss, Arizona - toss up, Philly - loss.

3-13 is a best case scenario. 2-14 is much more likely. We might be able to get away with not tying the worst record in Dallas Cowboys history if we can beat Arizona or Detroit.

God, I want to ass-rape Jerry Jones with the XXX Vince Lombardi trophy.

2-14 may be a bit pessimistic, but they will definitely be scraping the bottom of the league.  I'm rooting for Houston this football season, and possibly this basketball season as well.

Dallas should be able to beat Arizona - they are in just as much disarray yet somehow have more wins. Detroit, I don't think so. They have really shown me something recently.

I will gleefully cheer as Green Bay rapes you in the eyeballs Sunday night, though.  :drill:

I used to hold out hopes that the Cowboys could ruin Green Bay fans' day any given week. Now...  :ye_gods:

So Moss is now gone, Favre is looking every bit of the 63 year old man he is  :why_so_serious:, and Brad Childress is running around like Nicholson in The Shining. I think they can win the North by a game.  :why_so_serious:

At least Moss didn't have to hit a traffic cop with his car to get kicked out of Minnesota this time. What a fucking trainwreck. I think Childress has got to be to blame for all this. I did not expect this much craziness and drama to come out of that locker room this year, but I guess they want to compete with the Cowboys in the only way they have left - hissy fits.

Since apparently Snyder can't let the Cowboys beat him anything including drama and implosion


http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/nfl/101102-jamarcus-russell-washington-redskins

 :ye_gods:

 :facepalm:

First Rex Grossman, now JaMarcus 'PURPLE DRANK!' Russell to replace McNabb? Does he just engender some kind of hateful reaction by not throwing that many INT's and winning games? WTF?

When you take a coach that lives and breathes preparation and marry them to a QB that likes to "wing it", you're bound to end up in a rocky relationship.

This year he's thrown more INTs and TDs and he's also no longer the least intercepted QB per pass attempt in NFL history. With his current QB rating he's in the bottom quartile barely ahead of such luminaries as Alex Smith.

 :ye_gods:

Elway liked to wing it too and that worked out okay for the two of them.

To be fair, isn't his number one receiver Santana Fucking Moss?  Might as well just throw it to the other team, if that's all the talent you have on your side.

I've never thought McNabb was great, but neither should he be benched for the likes of Sexy Rexy, or JaMarcus Russell, for crying out loud.  Mayhap Shanahan is just trying to put a scare into him.

1) Shanahan was much younger and at an earlier stage in his career (read: less set in his ways).

2) Elway was a Hall of Fame QB.

Even in the twilight of his career, McNab is infinitely greater than Rex Grossman.

If Rex Grossman is your starting QB, it's an admission that your squad is relegated to "competing" for a high draft selection next April.

3) The offense was built around Terrell Davis.

What Cyrrex and naum said. McNabb could be on crutches and still be a better choice than Grossman or Russell. And keep in mind that when McNabb was winning in Philly, it was with such hall of fame talent as James Thrash and Todd Pinkston, which is only slightly worse than the choices he has now in Washington. No, he ain't the dynamic guy he once was, but he's doing pretty well on a bad team. Without him, that team would be at least 2 wins down.

This is a pretty cool article-  the 10 worst long tenured coaches of the past 20 years (http://deadspin.com/5681041/the-10-worst-long+tenured-head-coaches-of-the-past-20-years). 

Rich Kotite makes me laugh. 

That article was full of win.

Holy shit, the part about the cheap beer of the week had me rolling.

Holy shit that was hilarious.

I was happy to see Norvelous Norv get his due.  :heart:

The Onion has weighed in now about the tragedy of the Dallas Season.  It's like they've been reading this thread.  :grin:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/nation-taking-no-joy-in-cowboys-pathetic-collapse,18405/


"It's really been tough to watch, especially for a team that had so much potential heading into the season," Appleton, WI shopkeeper and longtime Packers fan Erik Hoyer said. "Ha! I was almost able to say that with a straight face. Honestly, this Cowboys team has made watching football more fun than it's been in years. They can't run the ball, they can't defend anything, and they're imploding so bad that their owner doesn't even know how many games they've played."

Yep, that's right, just pile it on. If we ever get a real coach for more than 3 years when Jerry finally gets so pissed at losing, everyone in the league is going to only have these days to look back at fondly when they get their asses kicked by America's Team.  :grin:

Jerry Jones bought the Steelers?  :why_so_serious: (and yes this was a huge debate in Pittsburgh while I lived there. Moving away to the heart of the confederacy, I thought I'd be away from them, but Steeler fans are everywhere and more numerous than the Star - so Pittsburgh fans may have a point)

Steelers fans congeal in your gutters and then multiply across your state like a plague.

I've gone to many random sports bars across texas and the oddest sight was finding one a few years ago with only steelers fans, since then it has actually been a more frequent occurrence the longer we huddle in mediocrity and below .  Weird to see but as long as they have a TV showing the Cowboys game and the beer is cold I'll make myself at home.  Never mind the haters and the fair weather fans I'll be sporting my Cowboys jersey regardless. 

I honestly don't get the Steelers thing. But I suppose there are just some things in this world I am not meant to get.

I would say they are like zombies in that eventually everyone will be susceptible to becoming one, but zombies are at least cool.

 

The Iron Curtain, baby!  The Immaculate Reception!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xMDIcsUMmA

Yeah I know about all that, but I still don't really get the Steelers thing. It's probably partly because my Giants fan-ness has been PASSED DOWN THROUGH THE GENERATIONS, but I know people who decided to just like football one day and they randomly pick the Steelers, even though they've never even been to Pittsburgh or whatever. I don't get why you'd do that instead of picking the local team. Even if the local team is, say, the Cowboys.

The Steelers have a hell of a good history, and there are large chunks of the country, particularly in the midwest, that either have no pro team or a supremely shitty home team-  see Rams, Bengals and Browns.  Plus they have a good ownership that tends to stick by its coaches and seems to care about its fans, as opposed to shitheels like Al Davis.  It doesn't surprise me that folks like them at all. 

The Steelers seem to have the reputation as the 'Blue Collar' team.

And as rapists.

And the Cowboys of the 1990s were a bunch of coke freaks.

And they ran hookers.

The NFL is generally populated by a bunch of thugs.  This isn't news. 

NFL players do drugs.  So what.  As long as they do their job on Sunday, that's what they're getting paid for.

It wasn't just the Cowboys by the way.  They just get more press than most teams.

I was mainly just giving Paelos shit as he puts the Cowboys on a pedestal and treats the rest of the league like they are dirt under his fingernails.

I was also implying that just because one person on the Steelers did something, does not mean everyone on that team is the same.

Speaking of the Steelers, how come Polamalu didn't make the NFL's Top 100 of all time?  The guy changes the flow of every game he's in.  He may very well be the most influential defensive back in the history of the NFL... and I don't even like the Steelers.

Fun times. Watched my sister a new england fan literrally cry when Palamalu wrecked the Patriots shit in the playoffs. It was glorious.

Football has two lessons, you either love the steelers or hate them at some point in your life.

As others have said, people like the Steelers because they have a combo of (1) that aura of blue-collar, 1950s football, and (2) are actually good.  Browns, Lions, maybe one or two other teams have (1) but not (2).

Green Bay has both but lack the fan base that the steelers have.  See also Chicago.  Being in a larger market than the midwest helps.  Dallas is an anomaly.  

Not the rest of the league, just everyone in the NFC East, the Steelers, the Pats, both of the divisions in the West, any team that plays in Florida, and the Bungles.

Green Bay has a pretty large national fan base. You will see a pretty large contingent of Packer fans at any away game who are from that locale. But Packers fans are generally not obnoxious wankers like Steeler fans :D

I agree he should've been on there, but Ronnie Lott and Deion Sanders are light years ahead of him for the title of "most influential DB in NFL history".

Green Bay has a great fan base.  I see their shit all the time on cars in fucking Texas. 

And I would really like for someone to explain to me how Dallas became "America's Team".  My dad was a huge fan in the '80s, and I just don't get it.  Was it Tony Dorsett? 

GO BROWNS!

Could Colt McCoy be the answer?  2-1 against Pittsburgh, New Orleans, and NE is a fairly good start.  

Now, let's go for three upsets in a row against the Jets.  


EDIT:  Knowing Cleveland, they'll beat the Jets and then lose to the Bills, Panthers, and Jaguars  :oh_i_see:

No it was Roger "The Dodger" Staubach. A.K.A. Captain America.

That's what I'm expecting!

Steelers have lots of fans all over because (a) they sport the most Lombardi hardware and even considering AFC championship games — they've played in 14 since 1971 — that's over a 1/3 probability that they're within a game of SB champions and (b) Pittsburgh was a depressed city in late 70s to late 80s and a lot of fans who grew up rabid Steeler fans emigrated but took their passion to new cities, especially to the Sun Belt where jobs were at back then.

Oh Dallas.  You fill my heart with such joy this year.  :heart:

:awesome_for_real:

I want Mike Jenkins fired from our secondary. Tomorrow.

:why_so_serious:

Jesus Christ, that game is still going?!

3 games ago would have been fine by me.  But our entire secondary has been pretty horrible.... this wasn't news last year either the rest of the D just did their jobs well enough that we could recover from their blown coverages most games.  This year our linebackers have been absent and the D just spends too much time on the field due to shitty offensive playcalling and the abandonment of the run.

Changing coaches midseason will NOT help.  But it needs to be done anyway.  That would be the only bright spot on this day would be the news that the entire coaching staff has been sacked. 

I don't care that Jenkins sucks. He quit on a play heading to the end-zone. He pulled up and stopped when he could have made a hit. It was so bad, the announcers pointed it out IN SLO-MO that he quit, then talked about how other people have been dismissed from teams for less.

Then Jenkins smiled back at the camera as it was on him. Fired. Tonight.

Changing coaches midseason might help the Cowboys get the #1 draft pick.  Are you listening, Jerry Jones?

I enjoyed watching the Cryboyz get slaughtered. And relish in the truth that they're an awful squad, destined for a pitiful season (though I hope not #1 draft pick destiny).

Funny, when the Raiders are posting poor records, I kind of feel awful and sorry for them, that I want them to be good so I can hate them as rivals. With the Cowboys, it's just pure joy to see them suffer.

Think it's because of the fairweather fan, bandwagon jumping and know-nothing proclamations about being "America's Team". In contrast to other teams like Steelers, Packers, Bears, Giants, where fans always show and are filled with passion, no matter the team's W-L.

Well, at least the Coyboys made sure no one is talking about Seattle managing to go down 28 nothing in the first five minutes again.

It also might help them make a good selection with that pick.  Wade Phillips isn't much of a personnel person.

Can we name something he is good at? 

Oh, Jerry Jones doesn't appear to be the best at personnel, either.  He's not the worst, but not great. 

I understand the hate, and I understand how people love to jump all over us when we suck, but at least make solid points about the team. You have tons to pick from. However, the fans are fine, and they show up in droves. The Cowboys sell out every seat, every game, including standing room tickets, and are #2 in average home attendence in a down economy. Also, whereever they do on the road, the fans show up. They have the highest road attendence of any team in the league.

No.

Back in the 80's and early 90s before they got good, they did not sell out. They've been good in the 90s and in 2000+. But their streak of sellouts starts in 1990. Contrast to the Steelers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/preview08/columns/story?id=3530077), who've had a sellout every game since the 70's. And they had some very bad teams in the late 80's/early 90's before Cowher replaced Noll, where fans still showed up week after week.

Yes, they sell the most merchandise, but that means squat as far as "true fans" go — I'm talking about fan passion. You can wear an opposing jersey in Dallas but try that at Steelers or Eagles or Giants home game, or worse, if you wish to take your life into your own hands, a Raiders game.

Even Cardinal games in Arizona — until the new stadium, 90% of fans sported Steeler jerseys at Arizona "home" dates (though it going to swing back as Arizonans leap off the Kurt Warner less bandwagon). Cowboys only experienced that during glory SB days of 1990s here, and for many, Dallas was Arizona's home NFL team, even after the Cardinals flew west from St. Louis.

If you're going by that standard, you left out the Skins. They have sold out more consecutive than the Steelers. Also, they were horrible for most of that.

I see your point, but we're splitting hairs about passion when you're talking about teams that sell out for decades in a row. We're talking about the oldest, most decorated teams in the league between the Cowboys and the Steelers. We all know, the Cowboys continue to be the most watched, most hated, most prolific, most talked about team in the league. Good or bad, they own the airwaves, and they continue to have the fans to back it up, subjective opinions about "passion" aside.

The Cowboys one of the "oldest" teams in the NFL. Jesus you will do anything to prop up your team won't you?

Dallas was an expansion team in 1960.

News flash, the NFL wasn't the NFL until the 60s. Nobody gives a shit about all the teams that were around, combined, folded, reopened, folded again, and combined again during the 40s and 50s. You could argue the NFL wasn't the NFL until 1970 when everything finally merged.

So the Pittsburgh Steelers, Green Bay Packers, Chicago Bears, and New York Giants are all teams no one cares about?

All of those teams have been in their same cities for decades longer than the Cowboys have been around at all.

Should we put in more conditions on what the "real NFL" is?

Paelos:

I don't think anyone is attacking die-hard Cowboy fans here.  It's just that, for football, the Cowboys tend to attract the most obnoxious of the band-wagoning asshole fans.  People who don't even follow football too closely when the Cowboys are bad show up and talk smack when they're good.  Since everyone thought the Cowboys were going to be a top team, those people got started early this year.

Every pro sport has a couple of those teams.  The Yankees used to be one of those teams in baseball (Yankees caps used to sprout like mushrooms whenever they had a good season or won the World Series) though not so much anymore it seems.  

Steelers were renamed/created in 41, they had to merge with other teams to create such memorable teams as the Stealges, and Card-Pitt.

Are you fucking serious? A bunch of jerkoffs knocking around a football when the forward pass was a novelty and dodging WW2 doesn't mean it was the NFL anybody would recognize.

Oh I know, and I get the hate. And we totally have some bandwagon fans for the Cowboys. The idea that it's all bandwagoning assholes who will bail at the sign of disaster is ridiculous. My point was that there are a lot more hardcore fans than we're getting credit for here.

Changing coaches might save Jon Kitna from a season ending injury. I mean, seriously did you see the play where he got absolutely LIT UP because Felix Jones wasn't even watching the very obvious linebacker blitz that he was supposed to be picking up? It was almost the exact same situation as the one that got Romo hurt. That's not just players playing shitty, that's coahces not doing their goddamn job and coaching. Jenkins giving up on that TD was just icing on the shit cake. And don't forget the 11 penalties. This team is horribly coached, horribly motivated and just plain horrible. There is no excuse for a team with Marion Barber and that O line to fail at multiple 3rd and 1 runs. A lot of those players have just quit on the season. I actually give props to Terrence Newman for playing hurt last night even though it made him particularly useless. At least he seems to WANT to win, or at least compete. Most of them don't seem to care. Changing coaches won't get them to the playoffs - nothing is going to help that. But it might at least keep some of their players from getting killed because running backs can't pick up obvious blocks in blitzing situations. I hope they keep losing but win just enough games to keep from getting the #1 pick. Based on how Buffalo can't seem to beat anybody, I think that's a pretty safe bet.

The Packers looked like they were playing a scrimmage game against the JV high school team. No pressure on Rodgers, which is a good sign. That O Line has been shaping up nicely the last few games I've seen. Still not much of a running game to be found but I don't expect that given the personnel we have.

Also, Seattle... really?  :ye_gods:

I don't get the Cowboy love since the mid 90s.  They have won 1 playoff game since, what, '96?

They're a shit team.  Oh well.

We're hardcore fans  :awesome_for_real:

Also, yeah Haemish, I saw the missed blocks and I texted several of my friends that I fear for Kitna's life out there. Also, the game prompted my call for Jenkins' head when he gave up on that play at the goal line. Jerry didn't miss that either. Expect his ass to be gone soon.

It was inevitable. 12 starters (including the QB) out vs a good team = disaster. The score was utterly unsurprising; the only thing that surprised me was that the pass protection was relatively decent.

Wade out, Jason Garrett in (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81bf68e8/article/cowboys-fire-coach-wade-phillips)

On another note, what are thoughts on refs giving Peyton Manning a 1st down on 4th and 18 sack because he got slightly tapped on the helmet.

I screamed at the TV even though I care as little for the Eagles as I do for the Colts.

I think this news is more important:

Teabow writing a memoir (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5780093)

Yes, a 23 year old is writing a memoir.  :facepalm:

It was a Mickey Mouse call that was 100% correct by the rules. Unfortunately the rules really don't allow a lot of leeway. You tap a QB's helmet, expect 15 yards these days.

There were several calls in that game that went against Philly that were complete shit.  The whole Austin Collie one (whilst I didn't enjoy watching him get hurt) was utter nonsense.  Not only was it a clean hit, but it was also a clear fumble and change of posession (and a runback that would have gone some undetermined distance).  It was a game changer, too, it is just fortunate for the Eagles that they still won.

/yes, that was a bad call too.

But I do think there is a different standard of calls for Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.

I think if I'm toting the ball now, I just plop my head down, take a tap to the head, then profit can collect yardage and automatic first down.

 :awesome_for_real: :oh_i_see: :facepalm:

Superbowl MVP Eli Manning is totally awesome, rite?

 :uhrr:

To be fair, they're all sucking now!  It's like the Giants defense THINKS I started them in Fantasy Football this week. :(

How bout dem Cowboys? :awesome_for_real:

 :drill: Dez Bryant

I'm going to laugh my ass off if the Cowboys miss the playoffs by one game (8-8 or 9-7). Jerry Jones will have nobody to blame but himself for not getting rid of Wade earlier.

Please, we'll be lucky to win 2 more.

The Giants looked like absolute shit. Stupid penalties on the O line, Eli trying to win the game by himself and throwing the ball into stupid places. To be fair, the Cowboys actually looked like a varsity football team. Few stupid penalties, they actually ran the ball to set up the pass and Dez Byrant is a beast. But what the fuck happened to Marion Barber? It's like he's completely forgotten how to run the ball.

Minnesota also looked like shit. Their defense couldn't stop Cutler on 3rd down at all.

I believe this is where I point out my comparing him to Favre was not entirely without merit? Perhaps not.  :why_so_serious:

They should at least win against Detroit and Arizona if they continue to play as they did today.  Could win the home game against the Eagles and/or Washington.  I was morbidly hoping they'd continue to lose, however, in hopes of better draft picks.  After all, the season is pretty much lost, as is.

If you beat the Lions, it will totally be by 3 points or so, 'cause that's how they roll.

I knew we'd lose to the Cowboys once I heard that Garrett was going to be the head coach. Especially after hearing the simple basic discipline type stuff he's brought back to the team. Because what I've seen all season that's been missing from the Cowboys, and I've mentioned it to my buddies over and over again, was discipline. Well, here it is and look at the result. Of course, no one believed me that this was a trap game. The only one that I saw in the media mention that was Strahan.

Now, I don't think anyone is going to give Garrett a football genius award. But as long as he's got good coordinators calling the plays while he himself merely keeps the team under control, he can go pretty far as the head coach of the Cowboys.

As much as I hate them, I have to basically agree with Brogarn.  Ignore the record - this is still one of the more talented teams in football.  I wouldn't be even remotely surprised if they won a bunch more games.

Now, to all of the network execs out there:  yes, yes, we realize it's the Cowboys.  But they are 2 and 7.  That's two wins, seven losses and zero hope.  STOP FUCKING SHOWING THEM ON TV NOW KTHX.

It's amazing to me how much "discipline" seems to be a big deal in the league.  These guys are professionals and are paid to play the game.  You would think discipline wouldn't be necessary. 

They are twentysomethings that have been pampered since their formative years and given ridiculous amounts of money as professionals.  That any of them have any discipline at all kinda amazes me.

It surprises me, even knowing that some of them are 20 something pampered prima donas.  It's just sign of how fucked up the priorities in professional sports are.

Many professional athletes come from tragic homes and subhuman levels of violence and poverty. It's no wonder that many feel like a kid in a candy store once they get a taste of the good life and some attention.  

It's a very strange thing being an athlete, particularly if you happen to have some talent.  You're groomed like a racehorse for years and treated very well up until the point where you stop being a cash cow for the establishment.  At that point, you're dropped like a hot potato.  I don't really blame these kids for enjoying the spotlight. 

I think what many of you are doing is reacting to the fact that society places an unusual value on physical prowess.  This I understand.

Actually, my thoughts were more on locker room and playing field "discipline", not the idea that some of these guys go nuts when off the field, per se.  Obviously professionals have something that non-professionals don't have, and I always assumed that it was a work ethic and attention to detail, either intentional or simply because of an innate talent. 

Alright, let's play network exec for a second, and we'll make the decision on which games should get national attention this week.

Here are the games on Sunday

BUF @ CIN - Who sucks less? We'll find out Sunday, Sunday, SUNDAY!
ARI @ KC - Who even plays for these teams?
CLE @ JAX - Shitty plays against overrated.
HOU @ NYJ - Jersey's in the top of their division, this has a shot at being the AFC National game
WAS @ TEN - McNabb v. Young has some national cred for the NFC
GB @ MIN - any other year, this would be a lock national game. This year MIN just isn't MIN
BAL @ CAR - Carolina is wretched, no way
DET @ DAL - Battle of the 2-7s means no national exposure.
OAK @ PIT - I'd pick this one as the AFC national game. Surprise team meets Big Bad Ben.
ATL @ STL - Unfortunately I'm forced to watch this mess here in GA
SEA @ NO - This is probably the NFC National game with Champs v. West leaders
TB @ SF - East meets West would be better if West wasn't 3-6 and East wasn't exposed.
IND @ NE - I'm over this matchup. It was better when people on Indy were healthy.
NYG @ PHI - This one belongs on Sunday night, and it is.

There's also the factor of it being a large team environment. It's easy to just fuck off and do nothing if everyone else is doing it to.

"Why should I bust my ass if Jimmy is just jerking off in the bleachers?"

Vick is absolutely fucking ridiculous.  If he stays healthy, the Eagles are pretty damned good.

I remain unconvinced. He dismantled the worst defense in the league in yards/game. Great. I temper those results until he faces off against the Giants, coming off an embarrassing loss at home, who are the #1 defense in the league.

I am so glad I didn't bother to Tivo or watch that game. I flipped it on to check the score after about 10 minutes of the 1st quarter and it was already 21-0. Washington is really shitty. Yet somehow, Philly let them get over 20 points? Philly defense is very suspect and against a D that can shut them down, they are going to struggle.

The Eagles could be successful if they play with the mindset of the 1999 St. Louis Rams.  As long as you score 45 points every game, you have a good shot at winning.

And 14 of those points were the Redskins just tossing up bombs to try and get back in the game. It was looking like a home run derby in the first half.

Agreed.

I think 2-3 sacks in a game will really put the hurt on Vick.

Predictions for Vick v. Giants?

I'm guessing Vick gets a reality check against a defense that's been hearing all week that they are going to get lit up, and are pissed off that they fell into a trap game against the Cowboys.

If Vick continues to throw as well as he has, I think he'll have an incredible year.  That's the real difference maker.  In the past, Vick thought run first.  He's since learned some patience with maturity... it has turned him into a formidable QB. 

Keep in mind, I don't like Vick.  I am impressed with what he's done in the past few games.

Jesus, the Jets need to stop doing this shit to me.

At least you don't have Les Miles chewing the cud on your sideline.

Vick is going to stick his foot up the Giants' collective defensive asses. 

So far this game has nothing to do with Vick and everything with the Giants being stupid with the football.

EDIT: Dammit Eli, quit putting on your Aw Shucks face when you're telegraphing more than Ma Bell.

Heh, the Vagiants are going down again...

Eli has single-handedly lost this game for the Giants. God he's terrible.

I think that was the worst flailing belly-flop of a 'slide' I've ever seen.

How do you fuck up a dive! HOW I ASK!?!?  :uhrr: :ye_gods:

EDIT: Plus he decided to throw one last pick for good measure  :awesome_for_real: