NFL 2010

[Cyrrex]

It's a shame that their best WR went to jail. 

Not really a shame, actually.


Romo getting hurt:  I get no joy from that.  I like Romo.

Dallas losing yet again, on the other hand?   Ahahahahahahahahgrrbllbllllllggggh!!!

Fucking win.

[Sjofn]

In no way is he "average talent".  Average Talent does not get you a Superbowl MVP.

It absolutely does if you're the QB for the winning team and they can't give it to "every single person on the Giants defense." The Helmet Catch, as fucking awesome as that play was, was also EXTREMELY dangerous and holy shit if that guy hadn't caught it through sheer force of will there's no way we'd even be discussing if Eli is awesome or not.

Look, I'm not saying he's terrible, but he IS the posterboy for "rated much higher than he probably should be because he plays for New York" that people were accusing Sanchez of being.


EDIT: And yes, Plaxico Burress makes me sad. Partly because his first name cracks me up.

[Cyrrex]

Eli totally deserved winning the MVP.  He's also just an above average QB.  The two aren't mutually exclusive.

[HaemishM]

They really really aren't. Above average in the NFL is still pretty damn good. But you take away that O line or those fantastic wideouts and Eli gets pancaked and throws lots of INT's. He makes bad decisions at times where he'd be better suited checking down or throwing it away and his mechanics sometimes get wonky for no reason and that's when he overthrows guys for INT's. What makes him above average is when he gets zoned in and has protection, he can be lights out, like he was down the stretch in 2007.

But he ain't elite. Elite QB's active now: Peyton, Brady... ummm, that's it. Those are the only two I'll go so far as to say are elite. Favre used to be, McNabb could have been when they went to the Super Bowl, and Ryan, Eli, Rodgers, Romo and Rivers have all got the potential, but until they can win the big one, they ain't elite to me, no matter what kind of numbers they put up.

[ghost]

Okay, who's for sure better than Eli in the league right now?

1.  Peyton
2.  Rogers
3.  Matt Ryan
4.  Drew Brees
5.  Rivers
6.  Brady

I think some would put Ben Rothlisberger and probably Tony Romo ahead of Eli, but I think that's debatable.  

[Cyrrex]

I would take Ben and Romo ahead of Eli, along with all the others on your list.  I would probably take Orton, too.  I would take Vick over Eli (forget dog related issues, I'm thinking talent).  I might take Kolb.  McNabb would be a toss up.  Freeman down in TB is a close call.  Carson Palmer (who is overrated) would be a tie.  A year from now I imagine I'd add Sanchez to this list, and maybe Bradford too.

I could probably think up another couple, but I count 10 that I definitely take ahead of Eli, and several more that are a close call.  He's the very definition of an above average QB.  He's on a New York team.  He is surrounded by talent on both sides of the ball, always has been and always will be.

[ghost]

I would probably take Orton, too.  I would take Vick over Eli (forget dog related issues, I'm thinking talent).  I might take Kolb.  McNabb would be a toss up.  Freeman down in TB is a close call.  Carson Palmer (who is overrated) would be a tie.  A year from now I imagine I'd add Sanchez to this list, and maybe Bradford too.

This part of the list is a bit crazy.  No way Orton is better than Eli Manning.  Vick I agree with if you had to draft one of the two in an expansion draft, but he hasn't been the "better quarterback" yet.  McNabb's too old, Kolb sucks, Palmer sucks and Freeman is an unknown commodity really. 

[Cyrrex]

I can see why you would say that, but none of these guys have had near the talent around them that Eli has had.  I simply posit that, if you surrounded them with similar talent, they would meet or exceed Eli's output.  Vick by a mile.  And as much as it surprises me, Orton too.  The rest on the list are close calls.

[Rasix]

I would probably take Orton, too.  I would take Vick over Eli (forget dog related issues, I'm thinking talent).  I might take Kolb.  McNabb would be a toss up.  Freeman down in TB is a close call.  Carson Palmer (who is overrated) would be a tie.  A year from now I imagine I'd add Sanchez to this list, and maybe Bradford too.

This part of the list is a bit crazy.  No way Orton is better than Eli Manning.  Vick I agree with if you had to draft one of the two in an expansion draft, but he hasn't been the "better quarterback" yet.  McNabb's too old, Kolb sucks, Palmer sucks and Freeman is an unknown commodity really. 

None of them has won shit either.  I take the Superbowl winning MVP over a marginal increase in talent.

[naum]

I would put Eli in upper third of league QBs — he did win Super Bowl and he was no Trent Dilfer in that endeavor. But he's wildly inconsistent in play since.

Maybe even better, as I'd only put Brady, big brother Peyton, Big Ben, Brees, maybe Favre, but he probably has eclipsed the fading Favre now. Kurt Warner, if still playing, I would definitely rank ahead. Rivers? Maybe, but Rivers has choked it up in the playoffs and Eli is sporting SB jewelry. Aaron Rodgers if he continues good play and actually accomplished something in the post-season.

Can't think of anyone else… Carson Palmer? No. Gaudy stats, but not much playoff success. Cutler or Orton? Would not even place those in the upper half of league QBs. Vince Young and Vick if they could stay healthy (and avoid extracurricular troubles) and become more consistent.

[Fordel]

The Giants just need their offense to not fuck up, not even be good, just don't fuck up and give the other team the ball on their own 20 or whatever.


Their defense seems THAT good to me, they've been dominating almost every time I've seen them play this year.



Plus they've killed half a dozen QB's already 

[Draegan]

It's a shame that their best WR went to jail. 

Steve Smith or Hakeem Nicks went to jail?

[Nebu]

Steve Smith or Hakeem Nicks went to jail?

My sarcasm senses are tingling. 

[Draegan]

It absolutely does if you're the QB for the winning team and they can't give it to "every single person on the Giants defense." The Helmet Catch, as fucking awesome as that play was, was also EXTREMELY dangerous and holy shit if that guy hadn't caught it through sheer force of will there's no way we'd even be discussing if Eli is awesome or not.

Well I think you're completely wrong.  Eli took the team 90 something yards for the go ahead touchdown with 2+ minutes left.  In the superbowl.  Thats some un-average shit right there.

[Sjofn]

See my comments about the Helmet Catch.

[Draegan]

Steve Smith or Hakeem Nicks went to jail?

My sarcasm senses are tingling. 

Not Really.  Steve Smith was the first WR for the Giants to go to the Pro Bowl since Homer Jones.  He also set franchise records last year.  

Nicks is superman.

The Giants just need their offense to not fuck up, not even be good, just don't fuck up and give the other team the ball on their own 20 or whatever.


Their defense seems THAT good to me, they've been dominating almost every time I've seen them play this year.



Plus they've killed half a dozen QB's already  

The Giants are 2nd or 3rd in the NFL in explosive plays (plays over 15 or 20 yards).  They have the leading rusher in the NFL year (albeit with one more game over AP).  And they arguably have the best trio of WRs in the league.

I think 6 or 8 of the INTs Eli has thrown bounced off the WRs hands.  Both hands.  If the ball hits your hands as an NFL WR you need to catch it.

[Draegan]

See my comments about the Helmet Catch.

So Eli, evading the rush that time and getting the ball out has nothing to do with it also?  I mean Eli can't throw the ball and catch it as well.  Good players make good plays.  They also get lucky.  But in the end he needed a TD to win.  He got it.

[Nebu]

Well I think you're completely wrong.  Eli took the team 90 something yards for the go ahead touchdown with 2+ minutes left.  In the superbowl.  Thats some un-average shit right there.

Yeah, I'd be careful here.  Eli had the benefit of a) some pretty incredible catches (see helmet catch reference above), b) a 4th down conversion by Jacobs, c) a dropped Asante Samuel interception, d) poor tackling by New England on a near sack, etc.  

I think Eli is in the top 3rd of the NFL, but that's more due to his preparation than natural talent.

[Sjofn]

No, he can't catch it as well, and I was surprised he wasn't sacked (most of the time he would've been, that's just how those plays go), but you have to admit that most of the time, had he not been sacked (which again, I must stress, he would've been), that ball he chucked up with nothing more than a prayer guiding it would be incomplete or intercepted, and oops now the game is basically over. That ball was not really very catchable, but Tyree somehow forced it to be caught. My theory is that God hated the Patriots that night.


EDIT: Shit, how did I forget about the near-INT. Really that whole drive was a bunch of crazy shit. Can't fight fate, man. 

[Draegan]

Well I think you're completely wrong.  Eli took the team 90 something yards for the go ahead touchdown with 2+ minutes left.  In the superbowl.  Thats some un-average shit right there.

Yeah, I'd be careful here.  Eli had the benefit of a) some pretty incredible catches (see helmet catch reference above), b) a 4th down conversion by Jacobs, c) a dropped Asante Samuel interception, d) poor tackling by New England on a near sack, etc.  

So?  There are a lot of "ifs" in the game of football.  It's a game of itches.  It's what a player does with his opportunities that counts.  

I mean we can play this game with almost any player in the game if you give me 4 excuses and ifs.

[Draegan]

No, he can't catch it as well, and I was surprised he wasn't sacked (most of the time he would've been, that's just how those plays go), but you have to admit that most of the time, had he not been sacked (which again, I must stress, he would've been), that ball he chucked up with nothing more than a prayer guiding it would be incomplete or intercepted, and oops now the game is basically over. That ball was not really very catchable, but Tyree somehow forced it to be caught. My theory is that God hated the Patriots that night.

Tyree was incredibly open in the middle of the field.  Wide open.  He was also a terrible receiver.  An elite WR would of probably caught that much better.

[Sjofn]

My point is merely that he was incredibly lucky (and I am glad for it, being a Giants fan), not incredibly good. The entire team played the fuck out of football that night, and the only reason Eli got MVP is because quarterbacks are easy to single out and no one is going to argue with giving a QB the MVP. I don't really think there WAS an MVP on that team that night, they were all basically playing the game of their lives.


FAKE EDIT: Tyree was NOT "incredibly open." He has a dude right up his ass. Who is probably still wondering how the fuck Tyree (who I agree was also not awesome) caught that goddamn pass.

[Nebu]

On a lighter note:

The Texas DPS are cracking down on speeders heading into Dallas . For the first offense, they give you 2 Dallas Cowboy tickets. If you get stopped a second time, they make you use them.
 
Q.What do you call 47 millionaires around a TV watching the Super Bowl?

A..The Dallas Cowboys


Q.What do the Dallas Cowboys and Billy Graham have in common?
 
A.They both can make 70,000 people stand up and yell "Jesus Christ".


Q.How do you keep a Dallas Cowboy out of your yard?
 
A.Put up a goal post.
 
 
Q.What do you call a Dallas Cowboy with a Super Bowl ring?
 
A.Old

Q.What's the difference between the Dallas Cowboys and a dollar bill?
 
A.You can still get four quarters out of a dollar bill.
  

Q.How many Dallas Cowboys does it take to win a Super Bowl?
 
A.Nobody remembers.
  

Q.What do the Cowboys and a possum have in common?
 
A.Both play dead at home and get killed on the road!

[Sjofn]

It's a good thing I hate the Cowboys because otherwise I would start to feel almost sorry for them. 

[Draegan]

FAKE EDIT: Tyree was NOT "incredibly open." He has a dude right up his ass. Who is probably still wondering how the fuck Tyree (who I agree was also not awesome) caught that goddamn pass.

As Eli threw the ball there was not a person around Tyree for about 5-10 yards in any direction.

[shiznitz]

Thank god Dallas is done. Not that I have anything against them in particular, but their fans are way too cocky. Now to dispatch the Steelers season . . . 

Eagles will now win the division.

[Nebu]

Eagles will now win the division.

I'll take that bet.  The Giants have a much softer schedule.

[ghost]

I'll take that bet.  The Giants have a much softer schedule.

And Eli Manning   

[Paelos]

Thank god Dallas is done. Not that I have anything against them in particular, but their fans are way too cocky. Now to dispatch the Steelers season . . . 

Eagles will now win the division.

  Not with Vick at the helm, bucko.

[Rasix]

This season is pretty much a dream come true for Favre haters.

[Abagadro]

This season is pretty much a dream come true for Favre haters.

You say that like it is a bad thing.

[Margalis]

This season is pretty much a dream come true for Favre haters.

You say that like it is a bad thing.

At the press conference after the game he said something like "nobody knows my body like me" and my first thought was "and Jenn Sterger." Zing!

[Paelos]

In an epic moment that sums up why the Cowboys are the worst I've seen them since 1989 when I first started going to games, the ball actually hit Jason Witten in the head this week because he wasn't looking. I've never seen this shit happen at the pro level in my life. It wasn't deflected, it wasn't a blown coverage, Kitna actually tight spirals a line drive into the Star on the side of Witten's head.

Here's a shitty video of the guy taping the game. You can't see the initial play well, but you get a full-blown-can't-miss-it replay of what happened. Also, notice how the Jacksonville secondary start laughing after the play and asking each other, "Hey man, did that ball just hit him in the fucking head?"
http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/ball-hits-wittens-helmet/

[HaemishM]

Yesterday was a good day for me at watching football. The Packers D played pretty well, but they got REALLY FUCKING LUCKY. The two INT's they got could have easily been given to the receiver instead, and it just so happened they were such flukey exceptions they couldn't be reviewed. The offense did just enough, thanks to the defense not letting any points in. What was more important was that the O line actually protected Rodgers AND didn't give up a shitload of dumb penalties. If his receivers hadn't have had the dropsies, they'd have won by a lot more. Meanwhile, the Vikings choke on another one and Favre gets blasted in the chin. What's funny is that they were doing well early in the game when they played like they should have been playing all season - i.e. run a shitload of AP and pass off of that. They got cocky last year when Favre started lighting it up, and they changed their entire game plan. They became pass happy. With Favre a Kirt Warner-like gargoyle in the backfield, they can't do that as much. So they started with lots of AP and Favre was playing well. Second half and they forget all that and Favre gets hammered. Good times.

Also, Dallas.  It's just a comedy of errors now. Jacksonville really isn't that good, but saints be praised, the Cowboys are just that fucking bad.

[Paelos]

Let me spell out the rest of the way this season will go:

GB - loss, Giants - loss, Detroit - with Stafford healthy they win, Saints - BAD loss, Indy - BAD loss, Philly - loss, Washington - loss, Arizona - toss up, Philly - loss.

3-13 is a best case scenario. 2-14 is much more likely. We might be able to get away with not tying the worst record in Dallas Cowboys history if we can beat Arizona or Detroit.

God, I want to ass-rape Jerry Jones with the XXX Vince Lombardi trophy.