Expansion Talents and Spells Released

[Morfiend]

I guess due to all the leaks they decided to release the real info. Enjoy.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/burningcrusade/townhall/talents-and-spells.html

[Righ]

Also mentioned here:

The REAL REAL Talents and Spells database.

[Modern Angel]

owned by the internet. I bet Blizz is so, so not happy.

[Righ]

Yeah. I bet Forbosi isn't considered either friend or family now.

[bhodi]

Oh, the arms tree was fake after all. :)

Rogues are supremely uninspired. I wonder they'll take the hint that the most compelling combat build involves no new talents? Sword build has it over dagger once again, in that they can get AR and weapon skill easily.

Combat SF Sword:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-rogue/talents.html?305002105050130500000025305000055010022010000000000000000000000000

Combat SF Daggers:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-rogue/talents.html?005323105020130500000320305200055010000000000500000000000000000000

IMP SF Daggers:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-rogue/talents.html?305323105500130501551320300000000000000000000500000000000000000000

PvP Daggers:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-rogue/talents.html?325300105020130501000320300000000000000000005500030303101100000000

[Modern Angel]

Mutilate. Mutilate rules. Deadly poisons up, use Mutilate to get +30% crit and 2 combo points, Seal Fate makes it 3 combo points, do it again, Find Weakness gives you 10% extra damage for 10 seconds. Almost all the time.

[Morfiend]

Im going for a Hemo PVP build some thing like this.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-rogue/talents.html?305320115000100000000000000000000000000000005022530000321213101450

I might swap around Deadleness and Cheat Death. Ill have to mess around with them. The only major thingI am giving up for this is Improved Gouge, but I think I can live with out it for 10% Agi bonus.

Also, the new Warlock stuff is pure Love. (Good thing I have a 60 Lock also). A DOT with a AE. Can you imagine several warlocks spamming this on a large group of people in AV? BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM. Also, a fully Affliction Lock will have 5 DOTs to stack. Or a destruction lock with shadowbol having a 30% chance to return 10% of damage done as a lifesteal. There is so much fun stuff there. I really dont know which character I will bring to 70 first now.

[Modern Angel]

Yeah, there's ALOT of warlock love in there. And paladin love. And shamans. Most everything else has decent to good stuff while still keeping with the base class design. The three above mentioned classes though are going to play almost completely differently.

[Morfiend]

Shaman get 2 two minute pets each on a 20 minute cooldown. Mages get a 41 point talent to summon a pet. Also mages get a slow as a 41 point arcane talent. Thats going to be VERY nasty, I can see arcane/frost mages being the ultimate kiter class, even worse than hunters.

[Fabricated]

Argh, the 40 point abilities are so nice, but I can't stand being pidgeonholed into specific roles.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-warrior/talents.html?353200213020105003130005000000000000000000005005511050000000000000

I guess that's a start for a hybrid.

[Modern Angel]

Not sold on Slow at all. Overwritten by thunderclap in raids and 400+ mana. What can slow do that even an unenhanced frostbolt can't? Slow attack speed? I don't need more ways to kite people. None of the 41s do it for me in the mage trees

[Driakos]

I like that they moved Tactical Mastery to Tier 1 in Protection.  Not sure they needed to move Iron Will though.

[Sairon]

I think elemental shaman will get a nerf down the road. There's simply to many factors increasing spell casting DPS now along with an increased mana pool. I don't think there's any other class in the game that see as much DPS gain as shamans from +spell dmg items.

[Fabricated]

Toyed with my hybrid idea more.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-warrior/talents.html?353200213020105003100005000000000000000000005005511050002100000000

No second wind, but concussion blow and a 21 second long Shield Wall. I likes.

[Venkman]

Argh, the 40 point abilities are so nice, but I can't stand being pidgeonholed into specific roles.

Totally agree. The Tier 9 stuff for Mages is pretty cool, but I'd have to spend way too deep. 41 points for an Arcane snare/slow? And I can't wait to see the log junkies posting their picosecond reports on the Water Elemental (luv though it is, I'd as soon pick up Engineering for my Mage for a pet before spending 41 points on Frost).

As a Fire/Arc, I'll probably switch back to Arc/Fire (again), but it's looking pretty good. Invisibility is the one disappointment. 8 seconds to fade to invisibility, and only can see invisible targets and those that can see invis?

All and all I'm thinking they're on schedule for November release.

[Zetor]

Wow, I can see the "zOMGWTF NERF WORLUX" posts from here. Affliction got some serious lovin', and if the curse database is correct, the felguard pet has intercept and mortal strike. And destruction gets an I WIN talent vs fire mages, shadow priests and other warlocks, not to mention a warstomp at 41 points. It's kind of refreshing that I will be able to spend 45+ (!) points in affliction now and not feel gimped, esp. since affliction is a minefield of horrible talents right now.


-- Z.

[SurfD]

Not sold on Slow at all. Overwritten by thunderclap in raids and 400+ mana. What can slow do that even an unenhanced frostbolt can't? Slow attack speed? I don't need more ways to kite people. None of the 41s do it for me in the mage trees

EH?  How would Thunderclap (a MAX 10% slow) ever overwrite mage Slow (unless blizzard REALLY fucks up their debuff priorities)?  Another thing to consider is that for some odd reason, warlocks and other classes all have multiple trainable ranks for their 41 pt talents, but none of the mage ones do.

Personally, as a mage in a large raid guild, it wouldnt surprise me AT ALL, if they required (or at least strongly reccomended) that one of our mages go arcane just for Slow.  20% attack speed reduction is a great bonus in many boss fights.

And yeah, um, nerf warlocks for gods sakes....its not like i enjoy getting the living shit dotted out of me.  hell, most warlocks now can just dot me up and run and it damn near kills me all by itself...

[WindupAtheist]

The music was indeed nice.

[Merusk]

Wow, I can see the "zOMGWTF NERF WORLUX" posts from here. Affliction got some serious lovin', and if the curse database is correct, the felguard pet has intercept and mortal strike. And destruction gets an I WIN talent vs fire mages, shadow priests and other warlocks, not to mention a warstomp at 41 points. It's kind of refreshing that I will be able to spend 45+ (!) points in affliction now and not feel gimped, esp. since affliction is a minefield of horrible talents right now.

Warlock is one of the classes I haven't played past 4 or 5, so I have no experience with them.  However, I'm trying to figure why your reaction is so different from the 'locks I saw bitching in world chat (lfg) last night about how everyone else got 'all kinds of stuff and we get nothing but death seed'.   I'm going to go with the usual answer of, "If you bitching in a chat channel, chances are you're a terrible player and shouldn't be listened to"

[caladein]

I think it's more the general "I hate being Crowd Controlled" thing, but that's being highly simplistic.

That said... Druid stuff now plz.

[SurfD]

I think it's more the general "I hate being Crowd Controlled" thing, but that's being highly simplistic.

How a warlock could complain about being Crowd Controlled is beyond me........seduce, dot, dot, dot, fear, dot, dot, deathcoil, shadowbolt, and im usually dead without even managing to hit the fucker once.

[Zetor]

Warlock is one of the classes I haven't played past 4 or 5, so I have no experience with them.  However, I'm trying to figure why your reaction is so different from the 'locks I saw bitching in world chat (lfg) last night about how everyone else got 'all kinds of stuff and we get nothing but death seed'.   I'm going to go with the usual answer of, "If you bitching in a chat channel, chances are you're a terrible player and shouldn't be listened to"

It might be too early to tell, but I think warlocks really got most of the stuff they asked for in this 'review' (they're already calling it the "Warlock Talent Review" on the lock forums, heh). Right now the only two viable 'lock playstyles involve either turtling with soul link, or trying to nuke like a mage and running oom. The option to go heavy into affliction and not even needing to spam shadowbolts in raids (and being able to basically make dots undispellable, god, that 41point talent is nasty) OR go demonology and tear it up with an intercepting, cleaving, AE-resistant pet OR turn to destruction for almost mage-like nuke mana efficiency and insane burst damage is nice.
The new talents are a really good change (especially since they fixed/removed/merged the useless stuff, only took 'em 2 years, kek), not to mention the THREE different ways of aggro reduction they've introduced (Improved DS in affliction, Destructive Reach in destruction, and the spell that halves all of your aggro with a 5m cooldown and a soul shard req). Right now the only 'lock aggro reduction is 30 points deep in the low-dps demonology tree and requires having the imp out, seriously hurting raiding locks.

SurfD: Warlocks don't dot after seduce! They shouldn't need to seduce mages in the first place, it's all about the deathcoil (or happycoil/skillcoil, depending on who you ask), fear, dot, dot, dot, shadowbolt, fear, shadowbolt, shadowburn. Mages are crunchy. <3 Well, unless they're undead frost mages, grrr.


-- Z.

[Shavnir]

If warlocks are dotting you while seduced they're doing something wrong.

Also these warlock changes are like a dream come true.  I'll probably either spec my warlock into affliction or demonology (soul linked with a MD aura of +10% damage for a pet that dosen't die in two hits?  Combine with the 35pt demonology talent and you get +18% damage.  Yea that rocks)

[bhodi]

I personally think extending the trees was a bad idea. It takes away the diversity of the classes, and to get some of the new talents you end up having to spec so deep in the trees it's not worth it. For a great example, look at rogue. No rogue worth his salt is using ANY of the new talents.

A better idea would be a fourth tree, even if it's considered an 'epic' tree that you can only put pts 40+ into, have it require 40 points in the other 3 trees first. That gives a lot more options, and I think it would allow for the diversity that everyone's been begging for. You're basically being forced, if you want the new talents, to put 3/4 your points in one tree and 1/4 in another.

[Tannhauser]

Hmm, let's see the Mage 41 talents

Slow-Not bad, mostly seems to be a pvp tool.  Especially good vs. those charging warriors, sniping hunters and backstabbing rogues.  Does it's 20% attack speed reduction stack with Ice Armors 20%?  Seems so.  Only lasts 15secs, might be enough to kill your enemy.

Dragon's Breath-More burst damage is love, but it's modest damage.  The disorient is nice, gives the mage another tool to escape in pvp.  The 20sec cooldown is not too bad either, maybe follow this up with Cone of Cold would be a nice combo.  Or a Flamestrike, calling the artillery down on yourself and your targets.

Water Elemental-Not much to say, awesome to have a pet but how tough is he?  Would seem to be the weakest choice of the three if you are going pvp.  What does he do? Taunt?  More needs to be revealed for him.   

[Merusk]

The mage pet will be a mini god and you'll see Hunters and Warlocks screaming 'wtf'.  ;)

[Modern Angel]

Hmm, let's see the Mage 41 talents

Slow-Not bad, mostly seems to be a pvp tool.  Especially good vs. those charging warriors, sniping hunters and backstabbing rogues.  Does it's 20% attack speed reduction stack with Ice Armors 20%?  Seems so.  Only lasts 15secs, might be enough to kill your enemy.

Dragon's Breath-More burst damage is love, but it's modest damage.  The disorient is nice, gives the mage another tool to escape in pvp.  The 20sec cooldown is not too bad either, maybe follow this up with Cone of Cold would be a nice combo.  Or a Flamestrike, calling the artillery down on yourself and your targets.

Water Elemental-Not much to say, awesome to have a pet but how tough is he?  Would seem to be the weakest choice of the three if you are going pvp.  What does he do? Taunt?  More needs to be revealed for him.   

That's the thing with Slow. It's what, 500 mana that you have to reapply every 15 seconds? In a raid it's stupid because you want your damage dealers, you know, dealing damage. In PvP? Who needs another way to snare an enemy? Dragon's Breath is probably completely broken in AoE grinding (Blastwave, Combustion, Breath your dazed mobs with +3% damage) and obnoxious in PvP but, again, no raid utility. Water Elemental is... meh.

The big question is what Arcane Blast looks like in actual play and the size of a 70's intellect. It would appear that if you're going to go Arcane don't half ass it; make AM and AB your bread and butter spells. If Arcane Blast is worth a shit and I'm looking at a 1500 Intellect I can totally see going apeshit in Arcane.

[Morfiend]

No rogue worth his salt is using ANY of the new talents.

Sorry, wrong. Some of the new rogue talents are awesome. Now, if you are talking about the 41 point talents then yes, they do kind of blow. I plan on speccing 21/0/40 and I cant wait for some of the new sub talents.

Master of Subtelty *drool*

Also, any lock complaining about their talents is an idiot. Warlocks got so much love. I cant wait.

[Dren]

From my pool of characters:

Paladin - 60
No complaints.  Just none.  Can still heal very well and be a meat shield at the same time.  That's a role I've always envisioned for that character.  That is great for PvE.  I certainly can see a different spec for PvP too.  I'm seriously torn whether to just make my pally PvP strictly and go with the new low queue BG's or keep him around for support in the guild.  Choices, choices...that's what we were asking for all along.

Warlock - 60
Ohhh, the pain I'm gonna inflict!  There is some juicy juicy stuff there.  I'm a bit dissappointed that there isn't any information on developing your pets post-60, but I suppose I can't have everything.

Rogue - 56
I'm liking what I see.  I tend to play the sneaky backstab and poison type (daggers) so it alls looks golden from here.

Priest - 50
Sup thou?

Druid - 36
What he said.

Mage - 28
Too young to care.

[Threash]

I personally think extending the trees was a bad idea. It takes away the diversity of the classes, and to get some of the new talents you end up having to spec so deep in the trees it's not worth it. For a great example, look at rogue. No rogue worth his salt is using ANY of the new talents.

Im not so sure about that, the only horrible 41 point talent is the combat one which actually LOWERS your dps in raid situations (since you only get one roll to determine wether you crit/hit/miss/dodge/parry removing dodge would turn those backstabs into regular hits and its more energy efficient to get dodged and lose 11 energy than to get a non crit backstab).  Mutilate depending on how it works could completely replace backstab, that means you can lose the 8 points in the combat tree completely or keep imp gouge and max both imp ambush AND initiative in the sub tree. 41/3/16 would be an amazing pvp and pve build.  The only problem with the sub tree is that its TOO good, theres nothing in the top tiers that i feel i can skip so you end up with like 45 talents in sub if you want to go deep.  Cheat death is just sex, master of subtletly for those 3k ambushes not to mention the agi talent coupled with the attack power talent.  The 41 point talent just makes the subtletly rogue into even more of a 1vs1 master and when combined with the new 3 second silence on garrote it makes you basically inmune to mages for a whole 7 seconds, more than enough to win most fights.

[Jobu]

The mage talents seem a little meh to me.

Arcane looks really nice past Arcane Power. Lots of good stuff there. The new fire additions seem way too situational and random to really drool over. Only works on dazed targets, 10% chance on hit, only works on wounder targets, take more damage to put out more damage, etc. The frost stuff seems a little better, but not enough to spend so deeply in. Maybe the water elemental will be really strong, guess we'll find out. Completely uninformed, I'm leaning towards heavy-Arcane/Fire.

Notice on the spells that Ice Lance doesn't slow a target like frostbolt does. So you'll still have to spam frostbolt to proc frostbite before unloading with the ice lances.

All this has done is really inspire me to level up my mid-20 alts. Now I have to decide which one gets the love. Rogue, Warrior, or Warlock. Rogue talents seem real nice, so I'm leaning that way.

[Modern Angel]

That only works on wounded targets thing? Ranged Execute.

The hot rumor right now is that daze effects will be on boss mobs even if they're not affected by it, a la Curse of Tongues on some raid mobs. So bonus damage without the actual daze stuff.

[Zane0]

Through browsing the Curse DB, presuming it's wholly legitimate (I'm thinking yes), there are a few fragmentary hints regarding the new priest abilities.  From what I can tell there's an entire "champion" system, whereby you choose someone to be your "champion" and give them a lot of benefits:

Champion's Bond: Creates a bond between priest and Champion. When the priest takes damage, up to 20 will be taken by the Champion instead. Lasts 10 min. (I'm hoping this gets better)

Empower Champion: Empower the target Champion, increasing all healing and spell damage done by up to 100. Lasts 2 hours.

Summon Champion: Summon the priest's Champion from anywhere in the world.

Revive Champion: Return the priest's Champion to life with 3500 health and 3600 mana. (85 mana, 2 sec cast- great, and even better if it were a combat rez, but we'll see)

Champion's Grace: Bestow the target Champion with grace, increasing all healing done by the priest by 30%. Lasts 2 hour.

I'm not sure what I think.  With the emphasis on smaller groups however, this could turn out to be pretty significant.  There are also some not-champion-related abilities:

Holy-Word Shield: Placed over a Power Word: Shield.  From what I hear, it wards additional magic damage.

I've also heard that you can get a two-hour mind control, but I cannot confirm this.  If true, it's definitely an interesting angle to take, but I didn't exactly sign up to be a pet class.  Here's hoping the full info gets released soon...

[Merusk]

The 2hr MC makes sense if all that Champion stuff is pet-related.   You'd need the summon after zoning/ taking a flight path.  I prefer to think and hope its player-related, however it'd be kinda cool having Barov or Morgraine as your champion. ;)

[bhodi]

Im not so sure about that, the only horrible 41 point talent is the combat one which actually LOWERS your dps in raid situations (since you only get one roll to determine wether you crit/hit/miss/dodge/parry removing dodge would turn those backstabs into regular hits and its more energy efficient to get dodged and lose 11 energy than to get a non crit backstab).  Mutilate depending on how it works could completely replace backstab, that means you can lose the 8 points in the combat tree completely or keep imp gouge and max both imp ambush AND initiative in the sub tree. 41/3/16 would be an amazing pvp and pve build.  The only problem with the sub tree is that its TOO good, theres nothing in the top tiers that i feel i can skip so you end up with like 45 talents in sub if you want to go deep.  Cheat death is just sex, master of subtletly for those 3k ambushes not to mention the agi talent coupled with the attack power talent.  The 41 point talent just makes the subtletly rogue into even more of a 1vs1 master and when combined with the new 3 second silence on garrote it makes you basically inmune to mages for a whole 7 seconds, more than enough to win most fights.

Mutilate won't replace backstab because you don't get the extra crit chance from imp backstab or the damage from opportunity. Unless they change it, of course. If they change it it's entirely possible that it may be a decent replacement, but I'm not convinced the loss of all of the combat talents make it better than the combat SF daggers build. Sub stuff is nice, but speccing so far into the sub tree pretty much gimps your sustained DPS; you don't have the points for the nice combat talents and the critical points in assasination. Sub's great for a PvP rogue, they seem to be wanting rogues to PvP, but us PvE raiders get basically nothing.

All of this is subject to change, of course, except the fact that it took a post on the forums about evade for the developers to even REALIZE players couldn't dodge attacks from behind. This is how much they pay attention to the rogue class. Which is to say, not at all.