Expansion news: Smaller raids, Honor rehaul

[Modern Angel]

This went smooth as butter? Forgive me... I'm really amazed that an officer decides to take TF on his pally (your MT having TF? Extra boss or two right there) and another officer decides to take Medivh's staff on his druid. His DRUID.

Maybe people didn't have an issue with it... dunno, more power to them. It's not really showing guild first interest in those two cases.

[CassandraR]

Everyone wants good loot so the best way to manage it without drama is just to give everyone equal shot at it. Certain gear might be alittle better in the hands of other classes but its better to let people have the gear they want if they do the work for it to manage moral and keep people playing so you can raid. And in the end its all about just having fun and there is no sense in this 'best for the guild' shit if it causes problems with people.

[Malathor]

Everyone wants good loot so the best way to manage it without drama is just to give everyone equal shot at it. Certain gear might be alittle better in the hands of other classes but its better to let people have the gear they want if they do the work for it to manage moral and keep people playing so you can raid. And in the end its all about just having fun and there is no sense in this 'best for the guild' shit if it causes problems with people.

No. The real problems start when the guild as a whole starts suffering because of the greed of a few individuals.

[Xanthippe]

What is the paladin equivalent to TF?

[Modern Angel]

There isn't one because TF has no real stats that HELP a paladin. Just to completely derail the original topic. :)

If your guild made it work, great. From the outside I just figure that the first thing officers should be concerned about is advancing the guild. TF in the hands of a pally and Medivh's staff in the hands of a druid definitely don't do that. That's removing all interpersonal stuff from the equation and just looking at the math behind those items.

[Calantus]

Yeah... I don't agree with paladins taking the TF. Violently disagree infact. And I've never played a rogue/warrior to 60. I guess that's coming from someone where raiding and progression come first though, if you guys are casual or family orientated then it probably doesn't matter who it goes to.

[Chenghiz]

The leading guild on my server gives its pallies Ashkandis and Kalimdor's Revenges to keep them happy. Even their first DEoI went to a pally. Thunderfury is a bit different though, I think.

[Modern Angel]

Yeah... I don't agree with paladins taking the TF. Violently disagree infact. And I've never played a rogue/warrior to 60. I guess that's coming from someone where raiding and progression come first though, if you guys are casual or family orientated then it probably doesn't matter who it goes to.

If they're in Naxx I'm going to assume they're not "casual". Sorry, bhodi. not meaning to bust your chops, really not. Just raised my eyebrows.

[Sogrinaugh]

Yeah... I don't agree with paladins taking the TF. Violently disagree infact. And I've never played a rogue/warrior to 60. I guess that's coming from someone where raiding and progression come first though, if you guys are casual or family orientated then it probably doesn't matter who it goes to.

I'd shake the man's hand.  If other people wanted the TF that bad they could have put in the effort he did honestly.  I see raiding guilds in highly simplistic terms.  You have some friends, they help you get your shit, and you help them get theirs.  The particulars of what any given person takes is up to them.  People like to play the guild progression card (especially DPS classes) because it lets them corner the loot they want and reduce competition, and even some healers/tanks because all they do is raid and/or part of the pleasure of the gaming experience is forcing their paradigm on others.

Another shaman got Hand of Rag on my server.  Makes me laugh a little every time i see a warrior in that guild run by with OEB or something.

[Modern Angel]

TF's a little different. It's THE best tanking weapon in the game and not by .5 percent or some miniscule number. It's proc roots mobs where they are.

[Calantus]

I'd say more but bhodi doesn't need me giving him shit over something his guild did in WoW. :P

[Phred]

There isn't one because TF has no real stats that HELP a paladin. Just to completely derail the original topic. :)

If your guild made it work, great. From the outside I just figure that the first thing officers should be concerned about is advancing the guild. TF in the hands of a pally and Medivh's staff in the hands of a druid definitely don't do that. That's removing all interpersonal stuff from the equation and just looking at the math behind those items.

How do you figure on the staff and druid? It's one of the best group buffs for any of the class variations. The priest buff doesn't help much unless you stack groups of healers which our guild rarely does. The druid buff helps anyone with mana. I remember a discussion on the FoH boards where the general consensus was the guild benefitted most from the druid version of the staff. In our guild the we give legendaries in order of attendance average though and our priests out attendence our mages/warlocks/druids by a factor of 5 so our first staff is going to a cleric.

[caladein]

The particulars of what any given person takes is up to them.  People like to play the guild progression card (especially DPS classes) because it lets them corner the loot they want and reduce competition, and even some healers/tanks because all they do is raid and/or part of the pleasure of the gaming experience is forcing their paradigm on others.

Yes because everyone is all over that +Healing leather...

Eh, I got a soft spot for the healers since well first off, I'm one, but mainly because it's such disdain from the raid when a "ton of healing crap" drops (and everyone goes "Wow cool!" when a DPS item drops) that, at least for me, it's like you're getting the unwanted left-overs from the drop table (not to add that it's almost always an automatic thing with each healer having their own armor class). So getting that DPS item, especially when you have an overwhelming points, attendance, etc. advantage is really nice.

Mechanically, it's dumb, but I've found that keeping good role players around is a lot more important in the long run then distributing loot with the sole purpose of raid progression, even for raid progression itself.

[bhodi]

OK well, we weren't in Naxx when the TF got allocated; We hadn't become nearly as 'hardcore' as we are now. We're still a family friendly raiding guild, but we were *really* friendly back then, such as having no rules for attendance/inactivity. There were some grumblings about it but as I said he pretty much wanted it, won the items (bindings) fair in our DKP system without pulling rank, agreed with the rule of 'guild specials', which is basically that you aren't allowed to main switch, ever, and also agreed to foot the (not insubstantial) cost of getting the materials.

A lot of people seemed outraged outside our guild, and I'm sure a few grumbled about it internally (I was actually still an app at that point so I missed a lot of it), but in the end our DKP system says anyone can get anything if they're willing to spend the DKP and can win. You can argue it's really no different than someone getting a weapon that can be better utilized by a different class (hunter weapon!), and I'd agree with you. But those weren't the rules that were in place at the time, and they aren't the rules we work with now. We don't have people who decide who can use what better, because that's a receipe for disaster. We have a straight DKP system -- you bid on it, and if you have higher DKP than they do, you win. Period. There's backroom negotiation and deals and requests to pass it to someone lower, but that's done outside the system.

Now, on the druid medivh's staff front, that's a bit different. A resto druid can utilize that staff just as well as any of the other characters. Again, the druid in question has the highest attendance and the highst DKP out of the guiild. He also works his ass off doing guild-related crap, manages the raids, reimbursment programs, codes helper addons, develops the general strategies we use. I simply can't see a problem with this.

[Modern Angel]

http://www.wowwiki.com/Atiesh

There are your stats. For a druid aura is a resounding meh. For a priest, 62 healing is nice... but the problems with druids and priests with the stats is when do you EVER put healers in groups with more healers. Like, maybe two in the MT group but generally no. Whereas mage is 2% crit aura and warlock is +damage and those two classes tend to group up in ranged damage groups.

[Phred]

11/5 mana for the whole group is hardly meh.

[Modern Angel]

Let me restate: 11/5 for five people. That benefits healers the most (since they tend to downrank more than dps casters and said dps casters get other mana regen options). When do you have a group with, say, four healers and a tank? Five healers? Contrast with the times when you have five damage casters in a group. That's strictly a numbers based argument, of course.

[bhodi]

Numbers based the only thing that makes 11/5 suck is the fact it doesn't scale with gear. You can throw 5 casters together, they don't all have to be healers.

[Modern Angel]

That, too. I guess having played both a mage and a warlock (and raided with the mage) the 11/5 is just... bleh. I'm never going to see the staff or even sniff it so it's no skin off my nose if a non-mage gets it. I just can't think of any time where I haven't been able to get mymana back up in other ways.

[Sogrinaugh]

OK well, we weren't in Naxx when the TF got allocated; We hadn't become nearly as 'hardcore' as we are now. We're still a family friendly raiding guild, but we were *really* friendly back then, such as having no rules for attendance/inactivity. There were some grumblings about it but as I said he pretty much wanted it, won the items (bindings) fair in our DKP system without pulling rank, agreed with the rule of 'guild specials', which is basically that you aren't allowed to main switch, ever, and also agreed to foot the (not insubstantial) cost of getting the materials.

A lot of people seemed outraged outside our guild, and I'm sure a few grumbled about it internally (I was actually still an app at that point so I missed a lot of it), but in the end our DKP system says anyone can get anything if they're willing to spend the DKP and can win. You can argue it's really no different than someone getting a weapon that can be better utilized by a different class (hunter weapon!), and I'd agree with you. But those weren't the rules that were in place at the time, and they aren't the rules we work with now. We don't have people who decide who can use what better, because that's a receipe for disaster. We have a straight DKP system -- you bid on it, and if you have higher DKP than they do, you win. Period. There's backroom negotiation and deals and requests to pass it to someone lower, but that's done outside the system.

Now, on the druid medivh's staff front, that's a bit different. A resto druid can utilize that staff just as well as any of the other characters. Again, the druid in question has the highest attendance and the highst DKP out of the guiild. He also works his ass off doing guild-related crap, manages the raids, reimbursment programs, codes helper addons, develops the general strategies we use. I simply can't see a problem with this.

Your guild seems to have its head on strait.  Unfortunately seems like their is alot more alliance guilds like this then horde, SO many fucking horde guilds are on that "class priority" shit.  /spit
And it be them same stupid fucks that wonder why they always got problems with attendance.