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Author Topic: Justice League  (Read 2723 times)
HaemishM
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Reply #35 on: June 22, 2017, 10:38:24 AM

Wonder Woman doesn't give me hope that JL will be good. After all, it's still at heart a Synder movie and he is dreadful. However, I will go see it because I've always wanted a Justice League movie. Fuck, I LIKED Suicide Squad and that was actually a worse movie than BVS if you dissect it as a film (even as a superhero movie). Clearly my tastes when it comes to superhero movies is suspect.  why so serious?

Shannow
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Reply #36 on: June 22, 2017, 01:27:51 PM

Fuck, I LIKED Suicide Squad and that was actually a worse movie than BVS if you dissect it as a film (even as a superhero movie). Clearly my taste is suspect.  why so serious?

fify

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Ironwood
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Reply #37 on: June 22, 2017, 02:21:20 PM

Suicide Squad was a repeated kick in the baws.  Awful.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
jgsugden
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Reply #38 on: June 22, 2017, 02:43:00 PM

I'm not talking about fucking actors.  I'm talking about Shotgun Batman and Clark from Accounting who just don't give a fuck.

These are the new characters and I am entirely uninterested in them.  I truly expect, after the excrement of the first two, for Aquaman to be allergic to water, Barry to have dislocated knees and Cyborg to be based on Windows XP...
I'd actually like to see that as an animated 15 minute short...

Regardless, Whedon probably can't touch the big budget effects combats.  However, the character driven scenes are where he can take the characters that were horrible in prior movies, can take the characters that were developed by Synder in this movie, and all the other elements that we all knew WERE NOT GOING TO WORK IN THE SLIGHTEST in a Snyder JL pic - and give us what we want.  

I would not cast Affleck, but he can do a better Batman than we saw in BvS (with better direction).  Will it be the Batman I always wanted?  No.  I have no hope that Affleck will give us the Batman we want.  However, do I think he can be a serviceable Batman that perhaps isn't the strength of the film, but may not be a detriment?  Yeah, I think Whedon might be able to make that happen.  Affleck is clearly begging for help as he does not want to ruin Batman like he did Daredevil.  We can turn that negative into a non-negative.

Supes is hardly in the film.  He seems to be a third act addition.  He went through major trauma and they can totally change him as a result.  I think Whedon will have a good take on Supes and will at least be able to set Supes on the right path by the END of the movie.  My suspicion is that he comes in as a villain in there somewhere when he rises from the grave for a big budget fight that won't be cut, so I think we'll be stuck with some %@#$ that Whedon will just have to accept and move beyond after we cringe a few times.

Flash, Cyborg, etc... I'm betting will be a bit disjointed in the action/non-action transitions as we see more Snyder idiocy in the action and more character depth outside combat.  I think Whedon will improve on what Snyder will have done.  Aquaman - fish out of water.  Cyborg - didn't want his heroic future heaped upon him.  Flash - cocky and embraces his abilities.  All of those seem like Whedon template characters.  

As for Suicide Squad - 90% crap.  10% amazeballs.  Harley Quinn was pretty darn perfect.

I am not going to write it off, yet.  After what Whedon did with the Hulk, while being bound by Marvel's directions as to how the combat would take place, gives me hope.

  

I miss Good Eats.  *Sniff*
BobtheSomething
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Reply #39 on: June 22, 2017, 07:37:09 PM

What's with the Affleck hate?  Besides Wonder Woman, Batfleck was the only home run hit in that movie.
HaemishM
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Reply #40 on: June 22, 2017, 08:25:55 PM

What's with the Affleck hate?  Besides Wonder Woman, Batfleck was the only home run hit in that movie.

This. There was plenty wrong with Batman vs. Superman but Affleck as Batman was not one of those things.

jgsugden
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Reply #41 on: June 22, 2017, 10:38:27 PM

I disagree. And, if you recall, Affleck also was highly critical of his own role in the finished film.

I miss Good Eats.  *Sniff*
HaemishM
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Reply #42 on: June 22, 2017, 10:42:05 PM

I do not recall that and I submit that Affleck was probably too drunk when he was watching it to know the difference.  why so serious?

I mean, there's a lot of shit you can throw at BVS to criticize it that are valid points, and on that list of shit, Affleck is WAY near the bottom, just above Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman.

Ironwood
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Reply #43 on: June 23, 2017, 03:18:01 AM

Guys, for me, the criticism is not about 'Affleck'.  He did fine with what he was given.  It's about what he was given.  The Batman/Wayne they made him play was both fucking awful and entirely tonally deaf.

He's a Batman that shoots guns and brands thugs so they die.  They tried to take Dark Knight Returns (indeed, some of the scenes are direct lifts) and it was unearned and shoddy.

I have no problem with Affleck.  I have no problem with Clooney.  I even have no problem with Kilmer.  But Jesus Wept, I do have a problem with an awful Batman on screen.

And that's not even touching Cowardly Clark and his Retarded Father.


"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
HaemishM
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Reply #44 on: June 23, 2017, 10:07:23 AM

I have no problem with Affleck.  I have no problem with Clooney.  I even have no problem with Kilmer.  But Jesus Wept, I do have a problem with an awful Batman on screen.

And that's not even touching Cowardly Clark and his Retarded Father.

These things are truth. For a character with such a long cinematic history, Batman has been written badly very very often. Clooney, Kilmer and Affleck are all good actors who did the best they could with really shitty scripts and poor direction.

jgsugden
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Reply #45 on: June 23, 2017, 12:18:39 PM

OK - put the evaluation of Affleck aside. 

Look at Wonder Woman.

In BvS, people nodded and said, "Not Bad".  They did not rave about her the same way we are after WW had her own movie and was handled correctly.  I went from thinking, "Yeah, she was ok.  She doesn't really feel like the WW I'd imagined, but better than the rest of the DCEU," after seeing BvS.  After seeing WW, I was impressed.  "This isn't the WW I imagined, but it is a great WW.  Like Downey did for Tony Stark, Gadot made her own Wonder Woman that is charismatic and built for film.  It wasn't a perfect film, but she is a great WW."

Whedon handled each hero well in Avengers.  Widow and the Russians.  Widow and Banner in India.  Fury and Cap in the boxing ring.  Stark and Cap discussing ideology.  Banner and Stark in the lab.   

Those are the type of scenes that Whedon is going to change. 

I don't think we get a 'Puny God', Hulk Smash Thor, or any other signature Whedon moment in the big combat scenes as it is too late to rework them, but I do expect Whedon to give us better glue to hold the combat together.

And to be honest, although a bit flat, the fights in Man of Steel and BvS were typical summer blockbuster spectacles.  I expect the fights in JL to be similar - not really adding to the story, but a fine spectacle to watch.

I miss Good Eats.  *Sniff*
HaemishM
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Reply #46 on: June 23, 2017, 12:30:21 PM

You are seriously projecting. I like Whedon, but I don't think he's going to have that much of an effect on this movie.

Ironwood
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Reply #47 on: June 23, 2017, 01:26:31 PM

Look at Wonder Woman.

In BvS, people nodded and said, "Not Bad".

Yeah, but that was nothing to do with story or character or anything.  It was Gal Gadot for fucks sake.  Even typing her name I'm thinking 'Not Bad'.   why so serious?

(and, yes, I've taken your advice and I'm looking at her.  Damn.  I mean.  Truly.  Damn.)


EDITED TO ADD :  People SHAT on Widow for her 'can't have kids scene'.  Where were you ?  He's not a Messiah dude.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #48 on: June 23, 2017, 04:14:50 PM

Whedon directed avengers 2, i rest my case.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
jgsugden
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Reply #49 on: June 23, 2017, 08:24:49 PM

And he quit Marvel when they forced him to gut the movie, including the Widow kids scene.

I get it. You all say 0%  chance JL can be a film worth seeing in theaters. Noted.

I miss Good Eats.  *Sniff*
HaemishM
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Reply #50 on: June 23, 2017, 09:18:31 PM

Bear in mind, I'll still be seeing the movie in theaters. I just don't think it's going to be very good.

Trippy
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Reply #51 on: July 23, 2017, 02:20:09 AM

HaemishM
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Reply #52 on: July 23, 2017, 11:55:58 AM

I think the 4-minute trailer from SDCC was much better. I still don't think it's going to be great but I think it might not be as Synder-iffic as it first appeared.

Khaldun
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Reply #53 on: July 23, 2017, 03:08:58 PM

Apropros of the earlier conversation, I feel very certain that the whole "everybody but Flash disappears" bit at the end is a Whedon-written and directed bit.

That's really the difference--Snyder doesn't *believe* in Easter Eggs of any kind, or in making deep and knowing use of the particular tropes associated with various characters. He loves to recreate actual scenes and visual elements from other stories, but he doesn't know the narrative grammar of his source material. Whedon does; sometimes that is an annoying thing about him, but it's a far better starting place for making comic-book movies than just wanting the storyboards to look like the comic panels. If you think about movies that have been more influenced by the visual look of comics rather than their narrative engines or characters, almost all of them are shitty, sometimes surpassingly shitty.
Comstar
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Reply #54 on: July 24, 2017, 12:23:34 AM

Unlike Wonder Women, I don't expect to go see the movie. -

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Ironwood
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Reply #55 on: July 24, 2017, 04:39:43 AM

Superman was an icon of hope ?

When ?

When in any of the Synder Movies was he this ?  He was a rampaging fuck cunt that blew shit up.

Fuck this movie.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
jgsugden
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Reply #56 on: July 24, 2017, 09:17:59 AM

They did build a statue to him... and he died saving them. Snyder didn't do it well, but he intended for people to be split on Supes.

I miss Good Eats.  *Sniff*
Khaldun
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Reply #57 on: July 24, 2017, 11:45:32 AM

He didn't do it all well--he more or less crammed a teeny bit into BvS intended to just state that some people love Superman. For no reason, really, because he doesn't have a long history of doing good deeds *and* he doesn't have the classic sunny Boy Scout Superman personality, but instead mostly just scowls like he's about to take a super-shit.
HaemishM
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Reply #58 on: July 24, 2017, 12:12:28 PM

When in any of the Synder Movies was he this ?  He was a rampaging fuck cunt that blew shit up.

Yeah, they keep saying that like they've earned it, but he wasn't. He was a brooding messiah figure at best.

Merusk
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Reply #59 on: July 24, 2017, 12:28:51 PM

It's based entirely, ENTIRELY, on 2-3 bullshit scenes wedged into BvsS. Scenes you can see outlined here as Sins because I've been binge watching Cinema Sins at work as I avoid personal problems. The Flood Scene, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5tSpgU96WY

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