Star Wars : Into Spoilers - The Spoiler awakens.

[Teleku]

Ahhh here we are.

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/12/18/what-the-hell-is-the-story-with-the-resistance-and-the-first-order-in-the-f

She pleads with the New Republic to deal with the FIrst Order, but everybody thinks she's overreacting; finally she's able to convince the powers-that-be to let her go off and lead a small resistance group which she then imaginatively names The Resistance. Basically this is like when the US sends advisors and some money and weapons to support an insurgent group in a communist (or now Islamic) country. The New Republic isn't fighting the war - the logo of The Resistance is pointedly the same as the logo of the Rebel Alliance, not The New Republic (which, to be fair, is pretty similar anyway) - but they're kind of fighting a proxy war led by Leia.

Bleh.  I mean, ok, that's fine (sort of).  But they gave zero context of that in the actual movie.  You needed to have read the auxilary comics/books to have understood that.  Which is terrible movie story telling.  I mean, it's not like they needed to spend much time explaining.  A minute or two of exposition (or a few scattered bits throughout the movie where a character takes a few seconds to say something about the current state of galactic affairs) would have done wonders.  As that article said, I certainly wasn't the only one who had no idea what the hell the point of the resistance was, and that's not good.

Though that means the 'resistance' had pretty much better be disbanded by the time the next film roles around, and it's just the republic fleet out chasing down and fighting the New Order ("The Republic Strikes Back"?  Heh).  I mean, they blew up the capitol of the Republic.  They can't just continue to 'ignore the threat'.  The only story line they can take where this doesn't happen, is if we get Chancellor LimpWristedLiberal afraid to escalate the situation, while Senator Trump valiantly rallies against him in the Space Senate, but to no avail.  Senator Trump then gets more funding and ships on the sly for the resistance, bypassing those cowardly limp wristed democratically elected bureaucrats, for more space pew pew.  And I reeeeeally hope they don't go that route.

[Threash]

Didn't whatever passed for the Republic just get blown the fuck up?

[Cyrrex]

Well, four or five planets presumably all in one system (that bit annoyed me...).  Surely they have at least dozens.  The former empire had a thousand or more systems?  And was it the capital?  No idea.  The book comes out early in January, I will probably buy it.

[Teleku]

Didn't whatever passed for the Republic just get blown the fuck up?

According to that article, they apparently moved the capitol to that system after they restored the republic (so the capital got blown up, not the 1000 system republic).  As the article also mentioned, this was probably done entirely so they could use the planet death star thing and not have to blow up the well known Coruscant.

[Venkman]

Seeing it again tomorrow, but I believe I remember those world's being specifically referred to as "friendly to the Resistance".

Maybe like targeting Pearl Harbor instead of a U.S. state in 1941?

[Riggswolfe]

Ahhh here we are.

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/12/18/what-the-hell-is-the-story-with-the-resistance-and-the-first-order-in-the-f

She pleads with the New Republic to deal with the FIrst Order, but everybody thinks she's overreacting; finally she's able to convince the powers-that-be to let her go off and lead a small resistance group which she then imaginatively names The Resistance. Basically this is like when the US sends advisors and some money and weapons to support an insurgent group in a communist (or now Islamic) country. The New Republic isn't fighting the war - the logo of The Resistance is pointedly the same as the logo of the Rebel Alliance, not The New Republic (which, to be fair, is pretty similar anyway) - but they're kind of fighting a proxy war led by Leia.

Bleh.  I mean, ok, that's fine (sort of).  But they gave zero context of that in the actual movie.  You needed to have read the auxilary comics/books to have understood that.  Which is terrible movie story telling.  I mean, it's not like they needed to spend much time explaining.  A minute or two of exposition (or a few scattered bits throughout the movie where a character takes a few seconds to say something about the current state of galactic affairs) would have done wonders.  As that article said, I certainly wasn't the only one who had no idea what the hell the point of the resistance was, and that's not good.

Maybe I'm hallucinating and since I had surgery on Friday and am on pain meds that is very possible. But I could swear there was a throw-away line that referenced the Resistance being a proxy for the Republic to fight the Empire. I think it was Han that said it when Rey asked about it.

Again, pain meds so may be off my rocker.

[Teleku]

Could be, and I possibly missed it.  But even then, "The resistance is a proxy to fight the First Order," doesn't really explain why the Republic is using proxies to fight a very well armed group of people hell bent on destroying it.   

Got invited to go see it again tomorrow.  I think I might like it better after a second pass, were I can actually examine the scenes and catch things I missed before.  I'll hold off further comment till then.

[Merusk]

Why did the US use proxies to fight the Soviet Union? Because fucking planet-killing weapons. 

The line was given-off by the redheaded First Order guy in his speech right before they fired the weapon.

[Tannhauser]

Just got back from seeing it.  Enjoyed it very much.  The new characters were well written and acted.  Finn got great lines, Rey got to defeat Ren and Poe got to shoot down like seven TIE fighters in a single, glorious scene.  I look forward to seeing more adventures with these three.

Very good seeing Han and Chewie again.  Han seemed to have mellowed with age.  He's not as cocky now, he's more composed.  He's seen shit.  Shit like the Force. "That's not how the Force works!" I knew they were going to kill at least one iconic character in this movie and I guessed right with Han.  Ford doesn't love Solo; he prefers Indy. Plus he's wanted Solo dead for a long time.  ROTJ might have been a better film if the Emperor kills Solo to goad Luke into turning or he dies in ESB like Ford wanted.  Nice to see Chewie get some fun 'lines'.

Thank you JJ for the practical effects.  Made all the difference.  As for SFX, saw it in 3D IMAX and the lightsabers looked amazing in the snow.  Other great sfx as well.

Kylo Ren was fine.  He's a punk ass Vader wannabe who throws temper tantrums.  I like how he popped off his helmet.  Now he's killed his Dad and got a nice scar, his true journey to the Dark Side is underway.

Ok the gripes.  Not too many, but once again JJ copies an original, trying to better it.  This was pretty much the same overall plot as ANH.  I got annoyed with it when the opened the doors and, of course, there was JJ's cantina scene.  Hopefully that's out of his system and now we can move forward instead of rehasing ESB.
 
I wish Luke had swooped in to save the day somewhere, instead of hanging out at the end of the film.  Luke is arguably the most powerful being in the galaxy; would have loved to see him really flex his Force muscles.

But overall it did feel 'Star Warsy' to me and that is what I was hoping for.  Finn's character really sticks out for me, and it was a great film, full of action, great characters and great lines.  Probably going to go see it again tomorrow.  There was clapping and cheering in my audience and I was one of the ones clapping.  It was not a perfect movie, but it was Star Wars.

[Riggswolfe]

One disagreement I have with many of you is that I preferred Kylo Ren with his helmet off. With the helmet on it just highlighted how much of a Vader wannabe he was with a Bane voice. With it off he was a much more interesting character with, you know, emotions and stuff.

[Teleku]

Why did the US use proxies to fight the Soviet Union? Because fucking planet-killing weapons. 

The line was given-off by the redheaded First Order guy in his speech right before they fired the weapon.

That's a terrible analogy.     Both sides had planet killing weapons in the Cold War, and equal militaries.  The republic has nothing to loose fight the first order.  Meanwhile, the U.S. was on the verge of out right going to war with Iran over the thought they could possibly be working on planet killing weapons, which couldn't be allowed because they hate us.   

As I said, I'll give it another watch.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Why did the US use proxies to fight the Soviet Union? Because fucking planet-killing weapons. 

The line was given-off by the redheaded First Order guy in his speech right before they fired the weapon.

The republic has nothing to lose fighting the first order. 

Except you know, all those planets.

[Abagadro]

My latest "Hey, what the...":  Why would an interplanetary army who can build giant space-laser-planet-killers design a helmet for their elite shock troops that can filter smoke but not toxins?

[Threash]

Cause its cheaper to make new soldiers than fancy helmets? who knows, cause evil.

[Ghambit]

Could be, and I possibly missed it.  But even then, "The resistance is a proxy to fight the First Order," doesn't really explain why the Republic is using proxies to fight a very well armed group of people hell bent on destroying it.  

Got invited to go see it again tomorrow.  I think I might like it better after a second pass, were I can actually examine the scenes and catch things I missed before.  I'll hold off further comment till then.

The First Order's primary goal, it seemed, was to hunt down and eradicate the Jedi (and the 1st temple - for obvious reasons), not obliterate the republic.  Since the Jedi are a relatively non-existent force at that point, why would the republic care?  I bet now they care though.  The Republic planets being destroyed is also more of a ploy to bring about the dark-side, specifically in Kylo...  it's not to "destroy the republic" per se; the way I see it.  Recall, Kylo's transformation was only really complete once the weapon was charged and aimed at his parent's most prized planets.

[Lucas]

Today I watched it again:

What I like the most is the whole "package": great pacing (minus the "cantina" scene at Maz's that I found pretty boring and 'til the last 10 minutes, when things got rushed, yes); spectacular and very "star-warsy" feel with the explosions, camera angles,  starship fights through tunnels and the like.

It seems that the majority of us agrees that we really want to know what happens next to Poe, Rey, Finn and Kylo, and that's no small achievement given the often poor characterizations we see in movies, especially action ones.

Rey's actress (Daisy Ridley) is adorable, by the way; I think I'll basically stalk her through youtube from now on 
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I liked the lightsaber duels: coreography was essential and perfectly in line with the character development: Rey and Finn are very raw, Kylo would have sliced through them without that early injury inflicted by Chewie (and he was also very upset about what happened with his father). But boy, when he tries to force-pull the hilt and it goes to Rey, that's awesome 
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Finally, I guess we could start speculating about GrandMastah Snokeboogey: a popular theory (which is purely speculation, at this point) points to Darth Plagueis, Sidious' master, which would link it to the rest of the previous storyline, so to speak. Or, do you think Abrams is going for a villain that is totally "estranged" from the rest of the (canon) saga? I would like him/it to be a callback to the Rakata or even the Celestials (yeah, I know they basically retconned everything about....well, everything included in the EU :P), meaning someone that has a very "pure" and natural connection to the Force, instead of some sort of "zombie-human" we have already met.

[Threash]

But boy, when he tries to force-pull the hilt and it goes to Rey, that's awesome 

That moment got the biggest cheers at the theater i watched, more than the opening crawl, more than the millennium falcon, more than seeing han and chewie or any of the original cast.

[Venkman]

But boy, when he tries to force-pull the hilt and it goes to Rey, that's awesome 

That moment got the biggest cheers at the theater i watched, more than the opening crawl, more than the millennium falcon, more than seeing han and chewie or any of the original cast.

In mine as well

But right up through her catching it, I had a moment when I thought maybe it was gonna be Luke who caught it, strong start at Ren and then a cut right to "directed by JJ Abrams" and closing credits style cliffhangar.

At which point, I would just up and die by nerdgasm... 

[Comstar]

Jakku is China, the Resistance is the Flying Tigers and the Republic just got Pearl Harboured.

[Khaldun]

Our Rey theory is that she is Obi-Wan's granddaughter.

Who was Max Von Sydow?

[MahrinSkel]

Our Rey theory is that she is Obi-Wan's granddaughter.

Who was Max Von Sydow?

Grand Moff Tarkin, commander of the first Death Star.

--Dave

[Abagadro]

Our Rey theory is that she is Obi-Wan's granddaughter.

Who was Max Von Sydow?

Grand Moff Tarkin, commander of the first Death Star.

--Dave

Wut?

[MahrinSkel]

Our Rey theory is that she is Obi-Wan's granddaughter.

Who was Max Von Sydow?

Grand Moff Tarkin, commander of the first Death Star.

--Dave

Wut?

Did I miss a straight line? Max Von Sydow played Tarkin in ANH, setting the precedent of English accents for Imperial officers.

--Dave

[Abagadro]

Tarkin was played by Peter Cushing and died when they blew up the DS.  Sydow played a guy with a small role in this new one.

[MahrinSkel]

Derp.

[Merusk]

Von Sydow was at the beginning, playing a character called "Lor Sen Takka" according to IMDB.  He was the one talking to Poe and gave the missing astrogation chart to him. It's nobody we've seen canonically before.

http://www.starwars.com/databank/lor-san-tekka

[Cyrrex]

Our Rey theory is that she is Obi-Wan's granddaughter.

Oh shit.  Huh.

Rey's actress (Daisy Ridley) is adorable, by the way; I think I'll basically stalk her through youtube from now on 

   Totally agree. 

[01101010]

Our Rey theory is that she is Obi-Wan's granddaughter.

Who was Max Von Sydow?

Interesting. Doubtful though since the main character(s) in SW have been Skywalkers. My theory is she is the bastard love child of Luke. Part of the reason he exiled himself...SHAME SHAME SHAME!

Of all the jedi, I'd say Obi-Wan was closest to being play-by-the-rules save for Yoda himself.

[Lucas]

Starwars.com databank is being filled with Episode VII entries:

http://www.starwars.com/databank/

The First Order’s infantry units wear stark white armor derived from that worn by the Republic’s clone troopers and the Empire’s stormtroopers. Members of this new generation of stormtroopers are trained from birth, growing up with unit designations instead of names and fed a steady diet of First Order propaganda to ensure absolute loyalty. Where the Empire opted for numbing routine, the First Order’s training simulations and live-fire drills encourage improvisation on the battlefield, making these stormtroopers more dangerous than their Imperial predecessors.

http://www.starwars.com/databank/first-order-stormtroopers

Ok, but their hit/miss ratio is still legendary bad, ok? 

[Khaldun]

As it should be.

Obi Wan did have a lot of time to stray a bit and even had a hint of romance in the Clone Wars cartoon.

I note that Finn also could have a mysterious parentage plot.

I really did love the three main characters, casting and acting and development. And Kylo Ren showed everyone what Anakin could have been.

I hope Snoke is actually that tall.

[Khaldun]

Von Sydow was at the beginning, playing a character called "Lor Sen Takka" according to IMDB.  He was the one talking to Poe and gave the missing astrogation chart to him. It's nobody we've seen canonically before.

http://www.starwars.com/databank/lor-san-tekka

I spotted him at the beginning, I was just puzzled because he was talking as if he was someone we all ought to know--very fanservicey talk. Plus his whole village seemed like it was there for a reason--like it was a Resistance outpost. They weren't exactly acting like random scavengers when the First Order showed up. But I couldn't mentally match him up with anyone at all. Seems kind of a waste of an interesting bit of casting.

Another thing I really liked, by the way, is that the big set-piece lightsaber battle between Rey and Kylo Ren felt very different than anything that's been in any of the films. Much more raw and emotional and compelling.

I think my main mild dissatisfaction with the film on reflection the next day is maybe that I would have preferred the omega threat to be something a bit different than a planet-destroying laser. I don't mind the repeat of the story beats as a whole, but that seemed a bit like oh-really. I would think that the entire galaxy, from Hutts to Republic politicians to bounty hunters, would all align together if they got wind that someone was once again building a planet-destroying weapon.

Also the whole background political situation felt unaccountably hazy to me. ANH, ESB, ROTJ, you got it: there's a big Empire, there's a Rebellion that doesn't hold political authority anywhere, and there's lots of semi-autonomous and "Outer Rim" planets that the Empire doesn't technically control but that do not in and of themselves have enough power to challenge the Empire. The prequels also were pretty clear (one of the few common criticisms I don't agree with is that the prequels were too much about politics--that was fine, it was just that George Lucas had no skill or ear for dealing with that as a theme).  But in this film, I was like, "Ok, so there's a Republic, yeah, that has a big space fleet that it sounds like the First Order is actually scared of, and there's a Resistance, who are? the covert wing of the Republic? the equivalent of the Lincoln Brigade in the Spanish Civil War? Another political alliance on other worlds altogether?" And then the locations in between just didn't feel "placed" anywhere, like the planet where Maz Kanata has her bar. Was the First Order extending themselves into enemy territory going there? Was that an otherwise deserted planet? Is the First Order's killer planet actually pretty close to the Republic? How far can that thing shoot? Anywhere?

The original three Star Wars movies did manage to deliver some sense of distance. Getting to Alderaan required hiring someone, it wasn't just a walk around the block. Tatooine was far away from everything. Hoth was extremely remote and it took tons of resources for the Empire to search the whole galaxy for the Rebels. (It's big enough that you can hide in it!)  Hyperspeed meant everything was *relatively* close--we never got a sense that characters had to wait weeks or months to get somewhere far away--but scope and scale mattered to the dramatic situation.

I don't think I'd want pounds of exposition, but ESB for example managed to communicate the situation on Lando's cloudmine pretty efficiently, for example. Jakku I felt I got a good sense for, but not the planet Kanata was on, not the planet the Resistance was on, and not the Republic.

--------

For me, the big thing that the next movie has to do right is that Snoke has to be a different kind of Dark Side figure than Palpatine. There needs to be qualitatively something different about his motivations, interests, and capabilities.

I also hope they grasp the nettle and have Luke tell Rey (and probably Finn) that the old Jedi Order was badly flawed--that if he's going to try again, he (and they) have got to come up with a different kind of Light Side organzation. That should be pretty clear even without the full backstory of Ben (Solo? Organa?) turning to the Dark Side and killing off the first round of Jedi recruits.

[Threash]

Another thing I really liked, by the way, is that the big set-piece lightsaber battle between Rey and Kylo Ren felt very different than anything that's been in any of the films. Much more raw and emotional and compelling.

I beg to differ, the lightsaber battles in the original trilogy were raw emotional and compelling, I do agree that bringing that back rather than making them action set pieces was a great move by Abrams though.

[jgsugden]

Rey is set up to be Luke's daughter. That is either a mislead or, more likely, a reveal for the second movie.  I'm betting it is revealed in movie 2.

My fear is that the heavy Vader worship is a precursor to his resurrsection.

I also think that Snopes is going to turn out to be really tiny when we see him in person. SNOPE. Like the website that covers false things....

[Draegan]

Rey will be Obiwan's granddaughter? I don't think there will be any other decedents of the originals. It would get to hokey.

[Threash]

Well they obviously made a big deal about Rey getting abandoned by her family when she was little and her waiting for them to come back, so her lineage is definitely going to play a part in future movies.