Star Wars : Into Spoilers - The Spoiler awakens.

[Venkman]

Yeah, the story was similar enough and the same base outline, but so has just about every other good SW story. I'm good with it, personally. If it's a major issue then it's your problem, not the movie's.

Yes this. Every movie, every book, whether they were complete stories or parts of a trilogy follow the formulaec hero's journey from unknown hero in waiting to climactic battle against a specific weakpoint on a major target. I loved how they handled it in the movie too: "this was hte Death Star (1)*, this is the <whatever they named it>" followed by Han being all "Chewie and I broke out of a lot more heavily guarded spaces..." line like: "Yea, so it's bigger, it's gonna have a weak spot right"?

Point really isn't ever the objective, it's the protagnist's journey between dark and light along with the supporting cast of comedy relief, meat shield, rogue, good looking pilot, etc.

That makes a Star Wars movie. Of course it also makes any fantasy movie 

Btw, I saw seven previews, including Warcraft and some terribad Gods of Egypt thing. Warcaft looked interesting, if tihs was five years ago during peak-WoW hype. Probably too late now to be anything by a cheap Jackson knockoff to most people.

* Dunno why they didn't show DS2 there. The planet was still much larger, but DS2 was so much larger than 1...

[Threash]

Great casting, good acting, good dialogue, great chemistry between the leads, as "star warsy" as it gets, well done effects that don't take away from the movie. EXTREMELY derivative plot, it is almost literally a remake of a new hope from start to finish.

man I don't know where people get the copying shit from.

Gotta be fucking kidding me here...

[Threash]

BTW where we supposed to recognize the old dude who gives Poe the mcguffin?

[Soln]

Pretty much in agreement with everyone here.  Good to sometimes great.  But it was a rehash or reboot.  I wanted a new story and it was very awkward in places.  For instance,  I thought the First Order were going to be Space ISIS.  I don't get how they were remnants of the empire AND there's an apparently widespread but passive republic?  regardless, I like the new actors and droid and looking forward to the Dagobah rehash.

[Merusk]

BTW where we supposed to recognize the old dude who gives Poe the mcguffin?

I don't think so but I haven't researched it at all. I get the feeling that's either more offshoot movie fodder. Or it's just meant to establish that Ren was known to a lot of the resistance prior to the reveal of being Ben Solo.

More "traitor" irony for when people shout it at Finn. (Speaking of.. If troopers don't remove their helmets, how did the one recognize Finn to call him a traitor. )

[Ghambit]

My theory about the accents telling the story is correct I believe.  Boyega transitioned into an American accent after being called by the light-side of the force.  Rey??  If you think she's a "good guy" you're daft.  Clearly a dark-side calling with her.  She tries very hard to portray that with her facial expressions all throughout the film.  And... she's a brit all the way through (brit=empire). Luke seeing Rey at the end was the nail in the coffin.  The look on his face is telling.  She might be his daughter, but he knows he'll be in deep shit if he trains her.  Very conflicted.  She will have trouble deciding which side to be on, and likely Finn will have to help her with this decision.  I like how she channeled Keira Knightly.  She's essentially a younger, less waify version.  Both her and Boyega were very strong; I was impressed.

Finn is force-sensitive.  No doubt.  The stuff he pulls off on-the-fly with Rey in the beginning spells that out, aside from being suddenly "awakened" from his stormtrooper-ness into a good guy.  Ren sensed it.  So did Snoke.  Maz sensed something also.  Snoke was not referring to Rey with the awakening.  I think Boyega+Rey bring a balance.. Boyega being clearly a light-side character that will require careful, deliberate training.  Rey?  Too powerful already.  She will be caught in the middle (which gives her an advantage), with angsty-Kylo rounding out the dark-side.  Stretch-theory:  Rey will end up with intimate feelings for both of them and Abrams' tweener twilight-hunger-gamering of Star Wars will be complete.

I got chills when:
-The Falcon was revealed and flown
-The ending with Hamill.  Best scene he's ever done.  The guy looked like a complete Jedi and total badass.
-The tie-fighter escape scene (best tie fighter combat scene ever done)
-Chewie's pain during Han's death (watching him die kinda messed me up inside also)


Definitely the 3rd best movie of the franchise, but my ordering is still ANH, ESB, then TFA.

Cool things:
-Lupita was Maz.  But, I thought she was extremely wasted in the role, though did a good job.  Abrams MUST find a way to plug her in better.
-Yahan Ruhian from The Raid (Mad Dog) was in this, and of course, he doesn't die.  So hopefully he shows up again later.  He's a total badass.
-There were a LOT of geeky homages and easter eggs (Abrams is good at this).  Some subtle (Porkins getting it from behind?  almost), some blatant.  I enjoyed picking them all out.
-For me, the 3D was worth it just for the Super Star Destroyer scene.  5 seconds of awesome.
-I love that this was done on film with largely natural sets.  The movie is very very visceral because of this and there little to no video-effect as a result.

[Threash]

I recognized the girl from Killjoys as one of the super weapon operators, seemed kind of wasted.

[Shannow]

First things first. I got the Han thing spoiled because a fucking Patriots fan dropped a spoiler onto the Broncos subreddit.

First off:

As a Patriots fan I give you full permission to kill this person.

Second:

This was a fucking Star Wars movie, we waited 30 years but we FINALLY GOT ONE.

Lastly:

FUCK FUCK FUCK THEY KILLED HAN SOLO FUCK FUCK FUCK.

I saw it coming but still FUCKING HELL YOU KILLED HAN SOLO (brass balls Abrams, brass balls)
Ford was excellent, he got all the best lines (cept for Finn with a few).

Now I have to wait what? two years for the next one? DAMNIT

Snoke's name is stupid, didn't mind the character.

[Abagadro]

(brit=empire).

Don't know about that theory, see Guinness, Alec.

Now I have to wait what? two years for the next one? DAMNIT

18 months. May 2017.  (plus a Rogue One spin-off next year in December)

[Lakov_Sanite]

I did theorize about Rey going dark but with Ben also being evil it might be a bit much. Is every Skywalker but Luke just gonna turn? Finn being force sensitive is not even a question to me but how that will manifest in future movies is up in the air, will he go full jedi or take on the Leia "oh I sense some bad shit" role.

[Threash]

(brass balls Abrams, brass balls)

I would be willing to bet it was more Ford's call than Abrams, probably even a precondition to being in the movie at all.

[01101010]

(brass balls Abrams, brass balls)

I would be willing to bet it was more Ford's call than Abrams, probably even a precondition to being in the movie at all.

Given he has wanted Solo to die since the beginning... pretty safe bet he had that stipulation in the contract before he signed on.

[Slyfeind]

I would be willing to bet it was more Ford's call than Abrams, probably even a precondition to being in the movie at all.

Heh. Yeah, Ford has been trying to kill Han Solo since 1976....

Was a little surprised at how little they used any of the iconic alien races. No Twi'leks, Rhodians, etc. I didn't expect Jawas or Sandpeople once it was clearly not Tatooine, but I still thought we'd see some of the more established aliens.

At least we got Admiral Ackbar! Yay! "IT'S A TRAP you young whippersnappers! Heh heh heh!"

[Lakov_Sanite]

At least the death was meaningful and yet not too sappy and drawn out.

Maybe this was obvious but I don't think it's been mentioned here...when Ben was talking to his father about helping him and handing the lightsaber over it was a test that Han failed.  Han still didn't believe he could redeem his son, even though he loved him so when he was given the lightsaber he took it.  That's the moment Ben could have been turned back to the light but instead it was seen as justification for going full on sith.  

In a lot of ways I think this was JJ's version of  "Anakin:how it should have happened"

[Slyfeind]

Maybe this was obvious but I don't think it's been mentioned here...when Ben was talking to his father about helping him and handing the lightsaber over it was a test that Han failed.  Han still didn't believe he could redeem his son, even though he loved him so when he was given the lightsaber he took it.

Hm, I took that as Han thinking that Ben was asking for forgiveness, and giving it to him. Das jus me doe.

[HaemishM]

There were stars and wars and lightsabers and giant planet killers but besides that...man I don't know where people get the copying shit from.

Droid on desert planet carrying secret information needs to be returned to the Rebellion Resistance. Climactic space battle with X-Wings making a trench run into the weak spot of a giant planet destroying super weapon. None of these ringing a bell? They aren't exactly subtle about it.

Like I said in the other thread, this should have been called Star Wars: The Homage because there were SO MANY CALLBACKS to the originals. The narrative structure was so similar, the construction of the three environments we saw (desert planet, ice planet and lush forest planets - just like each of the original trilogy), some of the jokes were callbacks, it was one long love letter to Star Wars from a geek, much like Super 8 was Abrams homage/remake to ET. However, I will say that I thought both Finn and Rey were really strong characters. Rey in particular seems to have a lot more acting chops and dramatic character arc than anything in the goddamn prequels.

I knew Han Solo would die, and the minute they said Kylo was his son, I knew how he'd die. More callbacks to Luke falling in the Cloud City battle. However, even seeing it from the meta, it still had an emotional impact because of the acting and the nostalgia for the character. It didn't feel forced. I actually thought Kylo Ren was great with the helmet on and dug his voice as an homage to Vader's without being too similar or too shitty. But yeah, when he pulls the mask off, he has a very punchable face. And this movie really hits home that the Star Wars movies have a shitload of Daddy Issues as their driving character arcs. It's like Lost up in this bitch.

NEGATIVES:

The names of the characters were bad, but they were typical Star Wars bad.

The new Death Star/planet killer pretty much invalidates any need for any warships ever. If you can launch goddamn planet killing death beams from entire other star systems with no apparent need to move the weapon, how would anyone feel safe, ever? And the second firing of the weapon KILLED THE GODDAMN SUN. Why would you need to fire planet killers when you can destroy entire solar systems by turning off their goddamn sun? Also, if firing the weapon drains the sun so completely, how did they fire it twice without moving the fucking planet? And did the sun turn into a black hole? There is some not thinking this thing through going on here. It was a minor quibble because it made the decisive fight scene in the snow look really fucking cool.

The CGI characters are so inferior to the makeup characters it hurts. Yes, Maz was impressive but still looked so out of place compared to the other characters in the cantina. It felt like a waste of that actress. And SNOKE? ... the fuck? At least with him, they can excuse his plasticness as being a hologram, but I really hope they make him an actual person in makeup when we finally see him. If they are trying to convey a size difference that the actor doesn't posses (like with Maz), I'd really like them to take technical cues from the Lord of the Rings because the size differences there were done incredibly well and the actors didn't have to be CGI'ed.

Story stuff:

Finn as a Stormtrooper was explained really well and I think we're going to see him be described as Force Sensitive because: 1) he broke the conditioning and 2) he lasted more than 5 seconds with a light saber in his hand, though granted it was against a wounded Sith apprentice. I think Rey is not Luke's daughter but the daughter of one of his students. She is also the real balance to the Force because I think Luke is going to tell her that she shouldn't be trained because the training always makes Jedi pick a side and that's what has put the Force out of whack. One should not tend to extremes but walk the middle path with control and compassion.

Was that planet that Hermit Luke was on Kimino?

All negatives aside, I really dug it and thought it was the movie the prequels should have been. I'll have to ruminate on it some more to see if it holds up.

[Abagadro]

Yes, my inner pendant was starting to think of all sorts of things wrong with the mega-weapon as the day went on, but after a while I figure it is just a big thing that blows up stuff that needed to itself be blown up and everything else was pretty irrelevant.

[HaemishM]

It was quite clearly just a McGuffin but it didn't have to be so incredibly powerful. I mean, killing a planet doesn't need force multipliers. Plus, the editing could have used a little more air - we didn't really get any sense of where these planets were in relation to one another or what kind of time scale we were talking about. Of course, that's probably deliberate because ANH had the same problem.

I also wanted to mention BB8 - holy shit but that was an incredibly well-done special effect AND well-written character. Put R2D2 to shame and is on a par with Groot. Plus, it's cute as hell without being Jar Jar stupid or too kiddy.

[Bunk]

The mega weapon "draining" the sun was just to allow for a) a timing mechanism and more importantly b) to allow for the cool shot of the shadow falling over Ren as he decides to kill his father. Heavy handed maybe, but cool none the less.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Maybe this was obvious but I don't think it's been mentioned here...when Ben was talking to his father about helping him and handing the lightsaber over it was a test that Han failed.  Han still didn't believe he could redeem his son, even though he loved him so when he was given the lightsaber he took it.

Hm, I took that as Han thinking that Ben was asking for forgiveness, and giving it to him. Das jus me doe.

Well he was handing Han the lightsaber saying "I need you to help me end it" so that was pretty much "Strike me down." definitely a callback to Luke giving in and trying to kill the emperor.

[Riggswolfe]

The mega weapon "draining" the sun was just to allow for a) a timing mechanism and more importantly b) to allow for the cool shot of the shadow falling over Ren as he decides to kill his father. Heavy handed maybe, but cool none the less.

I may be imagining it but I could swear it was implied it just temporarily drained the sun. Which doesn't make sense but Star Wars is science fantasy so I tend to give it a pass on stuff that I'd call B.S. on in Trek.

[Velorath]

Speaking of that Rey / Kylo Ren battle ... did something happened to Rey's eyes when they were facing of on that ridge, right before she started kicking the shit out of him ?

Just rewatched that bit. From what I can tell it's just the reflections of the lightsabers in her eyes.

[jgsugden]

Great film.

Only big probblem I had with it: Pacing is way off... it needs another 30 minutes. JJ rushes everything.

I'd bet good money that the original script had Rey already knowing Han... likely guarding the Falcon while she waited for him to come back, but they changed it to better hide her parentage. Not that there is anybody that doesn't see the bread crumbs that tell us who her father is.

[Riggswolfe]

(brit=empire).

Don't know about that theory, see Guinness, Alec.

For what it's worth I always took British as more of a "core worlds" accent as opposed to exclusively an Imperial accent. Beyond the real world fact the actress is English I think her accent, in universe, could simply be shorthand for "She is from Corelli or Coruscant or <insert other core world> originally and never lost her accent."

[Shannow]

Great film.

Only big probblem I had with it: Pacing is way off... it needs another 30 minutes. JJ rushes everything.

Agreed it was a bit rushed. I would've been perfectly fine with being 30 minutes longer too...or 60 for that matter..:P~

[Velorath]

I don't think the pacing was off except for the last couple minutes where it felt like they had to squeeze Luke in even though they didn't have anything for him to do until the next movie. The pacing on everything else felt very deliberate in that there isn't much of the run time that's just wasted, and they don't take much time to let things breathe because the characters don't get time to breathe. They could have thrown in more back story about the First Order and the Resistance, but that would likely have been worse for the pacing and I'm sure there's supplementary reading for those who are really interested.

[Teleku]

I'll write up more thoughts later when I got some time.  As I said, I liked the movie.  You can nit pick all sorts of shit in a Star Wars movie (everything about the killer planet being an easy target in this one), but most of it I'm fine just accepting as is.  However, there is one immersion breaking thing that bugged me like non other I can't let go:

Who the good god damn fuck are the resistance, and why do they even exist.  Why call themselves the resistance even?  The galactic republic has been restored.  There is a crazy splinter group of the empire actively trying to destroy it.  Why aren't they just "the republic navy"?  Why isn't he republic sending armadas out to destroy this massive god damn threat it, like with the Death Star.  Instead, we have this small secret group of of soldiers who seem to only have a hand full of x-wings to their name (*couple of x-wings get destroyed* "that's half our fleet!"), taking on an even greater threat that previously needed an entire armada to take out.  Is the Republic not 'resisting' the First Order?

It makes zero sense at all to me, and bugs me more than anything in the film.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I'll write up more thoughts later when I got some time.  As I said, I liked the movie.  You can nit pick all sorts of shit in a Star Wars movie (everything about the killer planet being an easy target in this one), but most of it I'm fine just accepting as is.  However, there is one immersion breaking thing that bugged me like non other I can't let go:

Who the good god damn fuck are the resistance, and why do they even exist.  Why call themselves the resistance even?  The galactic republic has been restored.  There is a crazy splinter group of the empire actively trying to destroy it.  Why aren't they just "the republic navy"?  Why isn't he republic sending armadas out to destroy this massive god damn threat it, like with the Death Star.  Instead, we have this small secret group of of soldiers who seem to only have a hand full of x-wings to their name (*couple of x-wings get destroyed* "that's half our fleet!"), taking on an even greater threat that previously needed an entire armada to take out.  Is the Republic not 'resisting' the First Order?

It makes zero sense at all to me, and bugs me more than anything in the film.

The way I saw it was that some worlds are now free from the empire and have rebuilt the republic but a good chunk of the galaxy still belongs to the first order. The newly freed republic worlds want fuck all to do with armed conflict because they would be big and obvious targets.  So you have the resistance off fighting the first order and the republic funding them but with enough distance they don't become targets.(the first order likely does not have unlimited resources to attack on all fronts)

[Threash]

Finn as a Stormtrooper was explained really well and I think we're going to see him be described as Force Sensitive because: 1) he broke the conditioning and 2) he lasted more than 5 seconds with a light saber in his hand, though granted it was against a wounded Sith apprentice.

Well they did show stormtroopers are now equipped and trained to fight lightsaber users, so it could just be that.

[Draegan]

Great film.

Only big probblem I had with it: Pacing is way off... it needs another 30 minutes. JJ rushes everything.

I'd bet good money that the original script had Rey already knowing Han... likely guarding the Falcon while she waited for him to come back, but they changed it to better hide her parentage. Not that there is anybody that doesn't see the bread crumbs that tell us who her father is.

Apparently there is about 20 minutes of footage that was cut because of time. Wait for directors cut!

[Merusk]

Great film.

Only big probblem I had with it: Pacing is way off... it needs another 30 minutes. JJ rushes everything.

Agreed it was a bit rushed. I would've been perfectly fine with being 30 minutes longer too...or 60 for that matter..:P~

I disagree: Always leave them wanting more. I find most films nowadays try too hard to explain "the world" and run far too long because of it.

The way I saw it was that some worlds are now free from the empire and have rebuilt the republic but a good chunk of the galaxy still belongs to the first order. The newly freed republic worlds want fuck all to do with armed conflict because they would be big and obvious targets.  So you have the resistance off fighting the first order and the republic funding them but with enough distance they don't become targets.(the first order likely does not have unlimited resources to attack on all fronts)

This makes sense, AND it does what Lucas tried but failed to do in the prequels with the Trade Embargo thing: creating a more nuanced political dynamic that reflects the real world. The resistance is fighting a proxy war against the First Order on behalf of the Republic. Both sides know it but either lack the resources or political willpower to step it up to a real war. The First Order bides its time until it can build the superweapon, then takes-out the Republic Fleet in a first strike for the real war.

This will let Ep8 have a Resistance/ Republic storyline around the war and give Finn & Poe something to do while Rey trains with Luke.

Of course all this is head canon for the next 18 months.

Other personal head canon: Rey's backstory.

So after Ben Skywalker has killed the New Jedi Order, Luke decides he must leave. Luke didn't know "Jedi aren't supposed to have romantic entanglements" because Obi-wan and Yoda only spent time turning him into a weapon against the Sith. There was no time for greater lessons on Jedi philosophy and such.

As a result, Luke had a girlfriend/ wife/ whatever that he abandoned when he leaves to find the first Jedi temple. He leaves not knowing she's pregnant. Mystery woman (who may or may not wind-up named Mara Jade) has child and goes looking for Luke. After some event she realizes it's too dangerous to take her daughter with her, and she drop her on Jakku. Woman dies on quest, leaving Rey stranded until the Force decides she's needed and sets up these coincidences to get her into the mix again.

It aligns Luke with his father's path: not knowing that he had offspring out there until he was much older and they were grown. It also sets-up Rey to go the dark-to-light path if you believe that will be her destiny because she'll follow both her Grandfather's and her Father's path. (Grandfather fell and was redeemed, offspring went the opposite path of his father)

Clues we have so far that Rey is a Skywalker:
- Lightsaber 'wtf' visions of Luke's life
- Force user
- Desert Planet parallel
- Rags clothing imagery (Luke and Anakin)
- Affinity for machines (Luke in old EU was a brilliant machinist based off some loose stuff in the movies, Anakin established by building poderacers and C3-P0)
- Evidently the only person who understands an Astromech without a translator
- R2D2 'wakes up' when she appears at the base. Low-power sensors may have been scanning for Luke's DNA/ Biosigns/ whatever

[Riggswolfe]

Who the good god damn fuck are the resistance, and why do they even exist.  Why call themselves the resistance even?  The galactic republic has been restored.  There is a crazy splinter group of the empire actively trying to destroy it.  Why aren't they just "the republic navy"?  Why isn't he republic sending armadas out to destroy this massive god damn threat it, like with the Death Star.  Instead, we have this small secret group of of soldiers who seem to only have a hand full of x-wings to their name (*couple of x-wings get destroyed* "that's half our fleet!"), taking on an even greater threat that previously needed an entire armada to take out.  Is the Republic not 'resisting' the First Order?

It makes zero sense at all to me, and bugs me more than anything in the film.

There is a throw-away line that explains the resistance. If memory serves it was something like "the Republic can't openly fight the First Order because 'reasons' so the resistance was set up to fight them and give the Republic deniability." At least I seem to remember it. I'll need to see the movie again to be able to tell you more since my first time was spent just taking it all in.

I even remember nodding and going mentally going "that explains it."

[Ghambit]

Given this modified EU, would Leia be able to give Finn any training at this point?  Seems like ep.8 is further along than some of my readings, wherein she is supposed to be actively honing her skills (when she's got time).  It's possible both Finn and Rey will be trained simultaneously; one by Luke, one (at least slightly) by Leia.  Kenobi's essence might show maybe?  I know it dissipates at some point.  Maybe in Abrams' version it's still around.  Maybe... Anakin's essence does some training!    (someone's essence is going to show up for sure; like it did in Maz's tomb)

Seems like Abrams broke apart the old dirt farmer to hero trope.  Really, it's split between Finn and Rey with both having questionable pasts and motives.  Rey being a very very neutral character.  I half expected her to flip out and kill everyone mid-film.  She was kinda scary in that way; great job if that was by design.  Finn was more like new-Luke to me.

[Riggswolfe]

Ahhh here we are.

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/12/18/what-the-hell-is-the-story-with-the-resistance-and-the-first-order-in-the-f

She pleads with the New Republic to deal with the FIrst Order, but everybody thinks she's overreacting; finally she's able to convince the powers-that-be to let her go off and lead a small resistance group which she then imaginatively names The Resistance. Basically this is like when the US sends advisors and some money and weapons to support an insurgent group in a communist (or now Islamic) country. The New Republic isn't fighting the war - the logo of The Resistance is pointedly the same as the logo of the Rebel Alliance, not The New Republic (which, to be fair, is pretty similar anyway) - but they're kind of fighting a proxy war led by Leia.

[Ghambit]

In the new mobile games (and I believe the pnp RPGs) you're essentially just that. Small splinter group full of smugglers and cast-offs holding a resurgent empire off; much of which think the emperor is still alive.