The Flash

[Khaldun]

Hamill gets a couple of zinger lines in this one. Basically does his Joker voice with a small touch of Hannibal Lecter on the side.

[Lakov_Sanite]

His suit at the fundraiser was the biggest joker nod.

[CmdrSlack]

Hamill gets a couple of zinger lines in this one. Basically does his Joker voice with a small touch of Hannibal Lecter on the side.

My favorite zinger line so far was the "I am your father" bit.

[jgsugden]

I want to see a changed time line episode as a one off that takes place in the 1980s Flash series world. I loved seeing them use images from that series last night.

[HaemishM]

When Trickster kidnaps Henry Allen, I was SURE they were going to reveal that he had been Flash in the '90's series but no one ever knew it.

The episodes leading up to the finale are going to be fucking awesome.

[jgsugden]

When Trickster kidnaps Henry Allen, I was SURE they were going to reveal that he had been Flash in the '90's series but no one ever knew it.

For once, we were on the exact same page.  That would have been an awesome way to go - and with Hamill and the original series' Flash's love interest both guesting, I thought we had a chance...

[Khaldun]

That might have been the weakest "the Flash could totally solve this whole thing quickly but he doesn't" so far.

[Tannhauser]

They really make Iris an un-likable character don't they?  She's channeling Laurel these days.  Good episode, a bit surprised they didn't spend more time on Bee girl, but they had too many guest stars I suppose.  Lastly, Barry's power isn't the Speed Force, it's the ability to move as fast or as slow as the plot requires.

For reals lastly; just give Ray and Felicity their own show. And if there's a gratuitous shower scene here and there I promise not to get upset.

[Khaldun]

Ray is apparently the centerpiece of the new show they're shooting now, actually. No word on whether Felicity is in it, but considering that she's confessed her continuing lust for Oliver, I am thinking not.

[Evildrider]

Laurel at least has been getting better, but after this episode Iris is just insufferable.

[Khaldun]

Yeah, she's really awful. Plus this episode they chose to remind us that there's almost something incestuous about Barry having the hots for her.

[MediumHigh]

Good god she tanked the episode. What a grade A double A bitch. 

[kaid]

They really make Iris an un-likable character don't they?  She's channeling Laurel these days.  Good episode, a bit surprised they didn't spend more time on Bee girl, but they had too many guest stars I suppose.  Lastly, Barry's power isn't the Speed Force, it's the ability to move as fast or as slow as the plot requires.

For reals lastly; just give Ray and Felicity their own show. And if there's a gratuitous shower scene here and there I promise not to get upset.

Honestly to some extent iris has every right to be unlikeable more so than laurel. Right now pretty much everybody even the darn bad guys know who the flash is except iris. When you are getting the sensation that everybody in your life is lying to you because they are in fact lying to you that would get old really damn fast.

[Khaldun]

You know, I was doing a bit more geeky thinking about the Reverse-Flash, since it's pretty clear we're about to tilt into that storyline big-time in the run-up to the season ender.

There are a few things that really don't (yet) add up that could make for some interesting twists to come.

Here's what we know so far:

He's Eobard Thawne, from the future. We don't know yet quite what future, only that it is at least 20 years ahead of when the show takes place.

He came to the past originally to kill Barry Allen as a boy, not to kill Barry Allen's mother.

He got stuck in the past because for some reason he lost access to the Speed Force after his fight with someone (presently presumed to be Barry Allen's Flash) who also had super-speed powers.

He knew that Harrison Wells would make his experimental gizmo in the future and presumably would power up people at that point--whether on purpose as part of its design, or because the accident that occurred in the current timeline was destined to occur in any version of Wells' gizmo.

He stole Wells' identity and killed him after also engineering the death of Wells' wife.

He feels genuine affection for Cisco, but is also a stone-cold killer who has murdered multiple enemies.

He's protecting and training Barry Allen, seemingly so Barry can reach some sort of power threshold that will allow Thawne to return to the future.

He's already regained a significant amount of his power, seemingly, but the doo-hickey he stole from Mercury seems important to that.

AND

He's very, very anxious about a headline from a future news source that describes the Flash as saving the world from a crisis.

---------

But here's what we don't know:

a) Before Thawne came to the past, the real Harrison Wells made his superpower-causing device in the future. Was there a Flash created by that device at that time? If so, was it an older Barry Allen? Or was the Flash created in the future Thawne himself? If so, was he always a bad guy?

b) What's with that "saving the world in the future" headline anyway, then? Is that the Flash who used to exist in the original timeline? If so, why has that story only changed once, when it seemed like *this* timeline's Barry Allen might survive? In fact, that almost makes the idea that Thawne is the one who saves the world in the future seem more plausible--if current Barry dies, then so dies Thawne's hope of getting back to the future when he was supposed to be there. If it's current Barry who saves the world, then how could that have been true before Thawne changed the timeline? If it's older Barry-Flash, then wouldn't killing Barry as a child end up destroying the world? But then if that's true, why is Thawne so anxious about that headline? Does he want the world destroyed? If so, why not just kill Barry now?

c) If both Thawne and Barry Allen use the Speed Force, does someone else already use it who is alive in the current timeline? It's implied that the Speed Force exists whether or not Harrison Wells' doo-hickey has created some metahumans...


This is the problem with building a big mystery around time-travel--it's almost impossible to sort out all the possible plot twists in a satisfying way. But they've done a pretty cool job with the Reverse-Flash so far, so here's hoping.

[HaemishM]

It's entirely possible (though highly doubtful) that the Eobard Thawne we are seeing as Harrison Wells is in fact NOT the true Reverse Flash, but Abra Kadabra, a 64th century scientist whose science looks like magic (and thus his whole magician gimmick). I say that because it seems his speed could be scientifically-produced as opposed to being linked to the Speed Force. Of course, I'd be AMAZED if TV did a goofy-ass all-the-way-full-retard-comic-style character like that because the explanations alone would be episode long.

[CmdrSlack]

It's entirely possible (though highly doubtful) that the Eobard Thawne we are seeing as Harrison Wells is in fact NOT the true Reverse Flash, but Abra Kadabra, a 64th century scientist whose science looks like magic (and thus his whole magician gimmick). I say that because it seems his speed could be scientifically-produced as opposed to being linked to the Speed Force. Of course, I'd be AMAZED if TV did a goofy-ass all-the-way-full-retard-comic-style character like that because the explanations alone would be episode long.

But Wells/Thawne describes the feeling of using the speed force.

Now I need to figure out which TPBs give me the best Flash comics from the past.

[Evildrider]

Now I need to figure out which TPBs give me the best Flash comics from the past.

I'd go with Flash: Rebirth as being the most important one. 

[CmdrSlack]

Thanks. Looks like Saturday is Record Shop Day and find that run at the LCS day.

[HaemishM]

But Wells/Thawne describes the feeling of using the speed force.

He could still have gotten access to the Speed Force with scientific means from the 64th century, he just needs a replenishment.

It's probably not Abra Kadabra though.

[Pennilenko]

There has been a couple times where Wells has told people their death does not matter because they have been dead for centuries to him.

[Khaldun]

Ah! I missed that. Tells us something, at least--that if there was a Flash in the original timeline who appeared shortly after the real Wells fired off his invention, it's not Thawne.

[Riggswolfe]

Am I the only sap that hopes we'll discover Well's "soul" or whatever was absorbed as well as his looks and memories and that he'll come back somehow?

[Khaldun]

I almost think they have to do that because Cavanaugh has been sort of the "Felicity" of the show so far--the actor who manages to really keep everyone's attention. Plus, rather interestingly, they didn't cast a complete disposable no-name actor to play Eobard Thawne in the reveal episode, so maybe they have plans to have him revert to his "real" body at some point.

[Mazakiel]

I think Cavanaugh has stated that he only agreed to do the show once he knew what the big reveal would be, so I'm not sure he'd stick around if/when Thawne is put back into his own body and Wells is restored to normal.  If things get reset a bit, I do hope he would stick around, though, because I've really enjoyed him in the show. 

[Evildrider]

Well, Cavanaugh is confirmed for season 2.  Who he is gonna be is another question.  I doubt they are gonna give another full season to the Reverse Flash though.  I thought they were kind of setting up Grodd for next season.

[jgsugden]

They have time travel as a tool.  They have a lot of options for including Cavanaugh.

[cironian]

Huh, didn't expect them to make it quite that clear for the good guys. Next episodes should be very interesting.

[Lakov_Sanite]

One thing I like about the flash is that it doesn't fuck around with common tropes.  Just look at his normal, healthy  relationship with both his dads? They don't seem to do drama for the sake of it unlike ahem, other cw hero shows....

[Ironwood]

Bee Girl was Walking Dead Girl.

And it annoyed me how many minutes it took me to figure it out.  Maybe Superman Glasses ARE a good disguise.

[NowhereMan]

But here's what we don't know:

a) Before Thawne came to the past, the real Harrison Wells made his superpower-causing device in the future. Was there a Flash created by that device at that time? If so, was it an older Barry Allen? Or was the Flash created in the future Thawne himself? If so, was he always a bad guy?

b) What's with that "saving the world in the future" headline anyway, then? Is that the Flash who used to exist in the original timeline? If so, why has that story only changed once, when it seemed like *this* timeline's Barry Allen might survive? In fact, that almost makes the idea that Thawne is the one who saves the world in the future seem more plausible--if current Barry dies, then so dies Thawne's hope of getting back to the future when he was supposed to be there. If it's current Barry who saves the world, then how could that have been true before Thawne changed the timeline? If it's older Barry-Flash, then wouldn't killing Barry as a child end up destroying the world? But then if that's true, why is Thawne so anxious about that headline? Does he want the world destroyed? If so, why not just kill Barry now?

c) If both Thawne and Barry Allen use the Speed Force, does someone else already use it who is alive in the current timeline? It's implied that the Speed Force exists whether or not Harrison Wells' doo-hickey has created some metahumans...

Let me give some guesses/thoughts somewhat informed by comic knowledge (which may or may not count for anything as writers are perfectly happy to rip off elements of stories while making significant alterations.

a) Thawne was definitely battling the Flash, Gideon AI reports it as his latest battle which exhausted his speed force. What's not totally clear is where Thawne gets his speed from. My guess would be harnessing some bleed off from the Flash's use of the Speed Force, so he required Barry getting powered up to be a speedster himself. Possibly he needs Barry able to use enough to time travel in order to piggback off it himself to time travel. I'd guess he was always the bad guy and he was trying to kill his Flash's ancestor or similar to stop him ever existing. At least that would be time travelling super-villain 101 because paradoxes are for pussies.

b) The headline seems to be referencing the Crisis on Infinite Earths DC event that had the Flash disappear into the Speed Force to resolve the whole crisis, sacrificing himself. It could also be that Flash saved the world in our future and was catapulted himself into the future with Thawne, it's doubly important that Flash save the world and get sent forward to give Thawne the opportunity to use his Speed Force. At least that's my guess.

c) I'd guess the Speed Force exists independently of any individual but requires some sort of meta to actually use it for anything. If Wells can only harness excess use from the Flash it would explain why he needed to power him up and train him to be faster. Of course it doesn't really explain why facing the Flash wouldn't also be powering him up rather than draining his batteries so maybe Wells just taps into the SF directly? Bu then why give  a fuck about the Flash?

[Khaldun]

Yes. I'm almost wondering if Barry was always a kind of 'battery' or source for Thawne--like maybe in the "crisis" of 2024, Barry saved the world and disappeared into Eobard Thawne's future, where he powered up Thawne almost by accident. But maybe then Thawne hates having to share the power with Barry, so sets out to kill him, paradox be damned? And maybe now he accepts that he needs Barry to be powered, that they're sort of "conjoined twins"? I dunno. It's got me interested. They're certainly making the relationship a shit-ton more interesting than it ever was in the comics, even after Mark Waid started layering it more and more.

[jgsugden]

I think the link between the Thawne's is a substantial part of the puzzle...

[Lakov_Sanite]

The show runners have mentioned that the speed force reverse flash uses is not really siphoned off Barry, that it's more of a dark side/light side thing.  The way best described is two connected gears and the faster one spins so does the other.

[Venkman]

Am I the only sap that hopes we'll discover Well's "soul" or whatever was absorbed as well as his looks and memories and that he'll come back somehow?

You are not the only one I like him as a character and actor.

My guess is there's an inverse relationship between speed force and which personality is dominant (i.e.,  > speed = thawne, < speed = Wells). This doesn't seem like Arrow where they set up a conspiracy for an entire season and then the hero finds out in the end. But just a guess. I don't go deep into the comic book stuff. This kind of show doesn't go that deep except for bit parts for fan service.

[HaemishM]

Bee Girl was Walking Dead Girl.

And it annoyed me how many minutes it took me to figure it out.  Maybe Superman Glasses ARE a good disguise.

Dude, I didn't recognize her at all until you said that and I looked it up. Superman glasses, indeed.