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Author Topic: The Flash  (Read 91554 times)
jgsugden
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Reply #105 on: December 23, 2014, 04:04:41 PM

I disagree - if you were in the middle of Season 1 when you quit, I'd just start where you left off.  If you want to skip to the first much better episode, I'd say The End of the Beginning (Episode 16) is the place to start.  I'd rewatch it, then Watch Cap 2, then watch the rest of the series.

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
Venkman
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Reply #106 on: December 23, 2014, 06:49:57 PM

Sweet that sounds good. Only recently saw Cap 2, so it's fresh, but also worth watching again.
jgsugden
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Reply #107 on: January 21, 2015, 08:29:09 AM

I was disappointed by this last episode. We've seen Flash struggle to beat buys that essentially had fancy guns. It seemed like he should have been able to run around them and pluck the guns from their hands with ease, but they didn't have that sensible thing happen because they wanted - for story reasons - to have him struggle.

And shooting him with a missile to test him? What if the sudden turn of the missile detonated it?

This was the first episode that really failed the suspension of disbelief test for me... these things pulled me right out of the show.

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
Pennilenko
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Reply #108 on: January 21, 2015, 09:00:36 AM

It's a show about a guy with "speed force",I don't really care about them being realistic. I don't need my super hero tv shows to mesh with real world mechanics for me to enjoy them.

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shiznitz
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Reply #109 on: January 21, 2015, 10:00:14 AM

I started watching this on my commute home. Wow is network TV bad.

I want to like this show and kind of do despite how contrived the whole thing feels compared to SoA, Walking Dead, Breaking Bad, etc.  It has this nice shiny happy polish on it that is just annoying plus the in your face references by the characters to previous episodes that are clearly there for those who might not have watched them are almost jarring because real people wouldn't bring them up that way.

This really makes me hope Netflix can do Daredevil right.

I have never played WoW.
Threash
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Reply #110 on: January 21, 2015, 11:47:46 AM

I spent the last episode yelling JUST SHOOT THEM, IT'S JUST TWO DUDES at the TV.  Cross the streams? wtf, just run up and fucking punch them.

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Khaldun
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Reply #111 on: January 21, 2015, 01:21:33 PM

It's a basic problem with superspeed characters, though. Either they have to be up against slower people who are really tough and strong (and therefore the speedster can hit them to little effect) or against characters who have some ability to cope with superspeed, either through speed of their own or unusual intelligence, etc.

Or their enemies have to be able to outthink the speedster. Some versions of Cold, Heat Wave, etc. do stuff like routinely spray the ground all around them with an area effect attack to make it impossible for the Flash to directly attack them. They sort of played around with that a bit at one point in the big fight sequence, when Snart sprayed the ground. I think the main way you can explain it away this time is just: a) Barry is inexperienced and b) Wells and Cisco told him he'd have to cross the streams so he got obsessed with that plan and didn't think for himself.
Threash
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Reply #112 on: January 21, 2015, 01:36:48 PM

I wasn't even thinking about the Flash though, i was yelling at the cops.  Hell, there is no reason that entire block shouldn't have been covered by snipers. As far as villains go "guys with fancy guns" are bottom tier let's-leave-this-one-for-Marvin-and-the-wonder-twins level threats.

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jgsugden
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Reply #113 on: January 21, 2015, 03:54:51 PM

I don't expect realism.  I expect fluidity that doesn't break suspension of disbelief.  That requires minimal levels of sensibility to the actions of the characters.  Basically, they can't be idiots.

This was the first episode where I really felt like they crossed the line.  

Obviously, you've got two guys shooting guns that can kill people.  There is no reason for the cops not to take them out.  There is no reason for the Flash not to run away and come back at them from a direction they are not facing and take the gun away before they can point it at him (or otherwise disable it).  It was really lazy writing.  Far beneath what this show has given us in the past - the prior villains and their interactions with Barry made sense for the most part.

The key here is that a comic book artist can get away with a lot more idiocy because we're getting a series of still pictures - not live action - in the comics.  As such, a battle between the flash and a guy with a glorified gun doesn't scream imbalance on the comic page.  They have to realize it will on screen and adjust for it.

The only part I liked was the discussion of ...
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 04:49:02 PM by jgsugden »

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
Tannhauser
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Reply #114 on: January 21, 2015, 05:19:34 PM

I spent the last episode yelling JUST SHOOT THEM, IT'S JUST TWO DUDES at the TV.  Cross the streams? wtf, just run up and fucking punch them.

Yeah, same thoughts here.  A bit disappointed with this episode.  Lazy writing.
Khaldun
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Reply #115 on: January 22, 2015, 06:21:41 PM

They've set up Cold as a methodical planner. I think "appear in public with superguns and just fight the fast superhero while cops watch" wasn't much of a methodical plan. Next time around he really needs to live up to that billing better.
jgsugden
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Reply #116 on: January 22, 2015, 08:08:35 PM

I figured it out.  His plan was so genius that mere mortals can't figure out how it was genius.

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
Tebonas
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Reply #117 on: January 23, 2015, 01:11:01 AM

For whatever reason he had for it, his plan was for the Flash to appear in public for everyone to see. He and his brother partner in crime were just the bait.

Why the cops didn't just put a bullet in their heads with snipers is another question altogether. Maybe its wishful thinking how police is supposed to work instead of how it is working in reality carried to ridiculous nonviolent extremes?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 01:17:35 AM by Tebonas »
Evildrider
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Reply #118 on: January 23, 2015, 02:39:32 AM

The cops not shooting probably had something to do with them still having Caitlin hostage somewhere.  Also they were probably too busy watching what was going on since they haven't ever seen the Flash, let alone the flash in action before.

Also the Flash isn't as fast as some of you are assuming yet.  He hasn't hit the potential to where everyone is pretty much standing still.  I mean Cold and Heat Wave had no problems tracking him when he was zipping around during the fight.  It looks like they are probably going to carry on with Flash almost getting his ass handed too him and then going all comeback on the baddies asses.
 
As for Cold's plan, the outcome was assumed.  He was only surprised by Flash "crossing the streams."  We just had Cold operating with Heat Wave all episode and Heat is dense and crazy.  Cold obviously only tells him what he needs to know at the time.
Threash
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Reply #119 on: January 23, 2015, 07:39:38 AM

Also the Flash isn't as fast as some of you are assuming yet.  He hasn't hit the potential to where everyone is pretty much standing still. 

"You know, when we fight it's like you are standing still" is literally what he told Ollie when they fought.

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satael
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Reply #120 on: January 23, 2015, 07:56:39 AM

Also the Flash isn't as fast as some of you are assuming yet.  He hasn't hit the potential to where everyone is pretty much standing still. 

"You know, when we fight it's like you are standing still" is literally what he told Ollie when they fought.
That sums up my problem with the flash. He can read (and assimilate information) at an incredible speed (like he did with the F.I.R.E.S.T.O.R.M paper and every time he is moving at full speed and avoiding obstacles) so any fights should be a piece of cake for him when he can think through all the options in a fraction of a second compared to that it  would take a normal person seconds to do the same. The fire&ice guys should have basically zero chance against the flash when their reactions are at normal speed unless their area of effect was huge (which it wasn't).
Khaldun
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Reply #121 on: January 23, 2015, 08:49:03 AM

Also the Flash isn't as fast as some of you are assuming yet.  He hasn't hit the potential to where everyone is pretty much standing still. 

"You know, when we fight it's like you are standing still" is literally what he told Ollie when they fought.

He was, after all, trash-talking Ollie.

And Ollie's point to Barry is still somewhat valid here--that Barry doesn't think at all strategically about his power and what it might allow, that he's mostly just going "wow, wow, look at how fast I'm going" and then reacting to what other people do. Still, if that's the character arc they have planned for the Flash--that he starts as kind of naive about his powers and gets smarter--the battle scenes and the antagonists are going to have to get smarter along the way. If I were a non-superspeed antagonist like Cold, I think I'd have to pick an environment that hampers the Flash's movements if I were going to try to fight him--full of dangerous objects, full of frictionless surfaces, full of civilians, something. Ambush really seems like the only major way for a non-invulnerable, non-metapowered character to get the better of the Flash.
Tannhauser
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Reply #122 on: January 23, 2015, 02:28:41 PM

Hasn't the Flash taken guns out of criminals hands previously in this series?  If so then whats the difference here?

It was just lazy writing.  I was expecting a 'home field advantage' where the two criminals had prepared the fighting area (icy spots, cars to blow up, etc.).

That's totally leaving the cops out of the equation as well.

Triforcer
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Reply #123 on: January 24, 2015, 08:42:26 PM

Flash has problems that no other superhero tv series has.  Arrow, Batman, etc. aren't metahuman.  Smallville worked because all the angsty teens fought by teen Clark got their powers from kryptonite.  Because of that, it didn't seem weird that he couldn't solve every problem in less than a second by running and punching.  

The Flash writers are going to need to be VERY creative to create plausible scenarios that can't be solved before the first commercial break by running and punching.  The last episode wasn't even the worst.  Flash defeated mist guy a few episodes ago by   

  
« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 08:45:45 PM by Triforcer »

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jgsugden
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Reply #124 on: January 24, 2015, 09:01:43 PM

This was my concern with taking Flash to screen with a TV budget - but I was impressed by how well thy handled it early on.  Hopefully they can figure it out.

Of course, the Supervillain in me still wants someone to string some very high tension thin wire at neck height inside the open doorway of a store where they're about to set off an alarm...

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
Evildrider
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Reply #125 on: February 17, 2015, 10:39:31 PM

I really like how they did Firestorm in this episode.
Khaldun
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Reply #126 on: February 18, 2015, 10:07:40 AM

Looks like for now they're happy to leave the atomic restructuring power off the list, but you could see even in this episode how it might still be in the mix, given the explanation of how they combine/split.

I think they did a good job of establishing the characters as potentially appealing enough to sustain yet another series, or just to be the equivalent of Huntress/Black Canary etc., a returning presence in this show. Firestorm is a convenient possible deus ex machina at any rate both because of Stein's scientific knowledge and because you could suddenly introduce the atomic restructuring power to get the Flash out of a jam.
jgsugden
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Reply #127 on: February 18, 2015, 10:42:03 AM

I am a bit disappointed and relieved that they did not (yet?) give Firestorm his full set of powers.  He is ridiculously powerful in the comics and if you put that on screen - the ability to change inorganic materials at will permanently - you end up with ridiculous results if carried to any logical extreme.  Of course, having him just be a flying guy that shoots fire doesn't really make him Firestorm... or worthy of all this military attention.  We've seen a few metas on the show that would have much greater military applications - such as the Flash.

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #128 on: February 18, 2015, 10:47:51 AM

I am a bit disappointed and relieved that they did not (yet?) give Firestorm his full set of powers.  He is ridiculously powerful in the comics and if you put that on screen - the ability to change inorganic materials at will permanently - you end up with ridiculous results if carried to any logical extreme.  Of course, having him just be a flying guy that shoots fire doesn't really make him Firestorm... or worthy of all this military attention.  We've seen a few metas on the show that would have much greater military applications - such as the Flash.

Any single being capable of creating a nuclear blast is worthy of the attention of every military on the planet.   That said, no comic character ever gets their full suite of powers in the first issue and it's silly to assume or expect that.   Even the flash is still very much "in training" on the tv show.

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HaemishM
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Reply #129 on: February 19, 2015, 03:53:14 PM

Any single being capable of creating a nuclear blast is worthy of the attention of every military on the planet. 

This. Hell, the General even says he wants armies full of guys that shoot fire from their hands. What military wouldn't want that - soldiers that don't need ammo or an expensive firearm?

Tannhauser
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Reply #130 on: February 19, 2015, 04:00:46 PM

This show is overtaking Arrow for me.

jgsugden
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Reply #131 on: February 19, 2015, 04:55:17 PM

Yeah, OK.  Anything that can generate a fallout free nuclear blast is going to be a major focus.  Good point.

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
Khaldun
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Reply #132 on: February 19, 2015, 06:55:13 PM

I am guessing that you might not have seen the last of General Eiling...
Evildrider
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Reply #133 on: February 19, 2015, 07:05:00 PM

I am guessing that you might not have seen the last of General Eiling...


Or Grodd had a healthy lunch.
HaemishM
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Reply #134 on: February 19, 2015, 09:22:28 PM

Maybe we'll eventually see Eiling as the Shaggy Man, but I doubt it.

This show just keeps ramping up the awesome.

taolurker
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Reply #135 on: March 17, 2015, 06:52:44 PM

HOLY SHIT.

MUST SEE TV


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Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #136 on: March 17, 2015, 07:16:35 PM

It was comic book awesome but with the "it was all a dream" comic book bullshit as well. I don't know how I feel about that.

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Khaldun
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Reply #137 on: March 17, 2015, 08:47:17 PM

I dunno, they pretty much dropped the bomb in this one, even if they undo some of it.
NowhereMan
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Reply #138 on: March 18, 2015, 06:25:44 AM

I'm curious how much of it might get undone, would be a good way to  without actually having to do anything show altering

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jgsugden
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Reply #139 on: March 18, 2015, 08:08:17 AM

They've exceeded my expectations on so much in this show, but this is the nut I have been worried about. Once you introduce time travel as something that can be willingly utilized...you have troubles not making it an obvious choice for so many problems... and I find the nebulous "you can'T change history because it could be worse" logic to be a really disappointing fix. I hope they can pull another rabbit out of the hat and make time travel work for this show...

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
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