The Flash

[Khaldun]

Yeah, I think that's the part that doesn't quite hold up. Thawne has been manipulating them right and left and now they just do what he says?


Loved the episode nevertheless.

[Threash]

The part that really doesn't hold up is Barry risking the entire city/planet/universe for completely selfish reasons. The moment they found out saving mommy might mean the end of the fucking world they should've gone from "do whatever you think is best Barry" to "we are about to put you in the cell next to Thawne you evil fuck". Not to mention stopping him from going home just because fuck him I guess when you know you can't beat him was not just a total dick move, but pretty much a death sentence for everyone.

[Tebonas]

Yeah, while I loved parts of the episode, Barry was totally out of character. Both risking everybodies life for entirely selfish reasons and breaking the deal with Thawn (presumably just to be a dick) were unlike him as portrayed in the series.

[NowhereMan]

The impression I got from the build up was On positive points Wells' acting knocked it out again, dudes' awesome. I really liked the little shout out regarding the Speed Force and the Flash universe just before Thawne left as well.

[jgsugden]

I think Barry planned to let Thane go until future Barry told him not to save Mom.

[NowhereMan]

From the character interplay I really got the impression it was more that Barry accepted it as something he would need to do in order to save his mother. If I was going to read more into it I guess it would be simply that the 'don't' gesture from futureBarry communcated the whole idea that it's a mistake to go along with Thawne's plans and Barry should stop it. Thawne was obviously depending on Barry saving his mother and being delayed in the fight because he sees what's up straight away (and because time moves constantly across different points which stops Barry coming back to the exact time-wimey wibbly-wobbly).

[Lakov_Sanite]

Also if Barry saved his mom, the timeline should be approximately the same as the future Thawne came from, which is probably what he was hoping for.

[jgsugden]

This is what people don't usually get right about the butterfly effect: Any change in the past is going to entirely rewrite the future. Once he left the future, there was no 'his future' for him to return to unless you believe in multiple realities spawning when there is time travel.  It doesn't matter if Momma Grant lives or dies, by the time every little change cascades and causes other changes, there is no way he is even born.  You might see some of the same trends occurring, but given how an imperceptible change in a sex act could drastically change which sperm gets the egg (or whether a sperm gets an egg), people committing these acts would be different people.  You can rewrite these 'rules' in a fantasy setting with concepts like destiny, but the butterfly effect as a concept says that you're dealing with an entirely different world in the future with even the most minor of changes in the past.

[Threash]

Did anyone bother to ask Wells how him and Barry were enemies when he was from over 100 years in the future? I assume the answer is "lol time travel" but it seems like something they would be curious about.

[Riggswolfe]

This is what people don't usually get right about the butterfly effect: Any change in the past is going to entirely rewrite the future. Once he left the future, there was no 'his future' for him to return to unless you believe in multiple realities spawning when there is time travel.  It doesn't matter if Momma Grant lives or dies, by the time every little change cascades and causes other changes, there is no way he is even born.  You might see some of the same trends occurring, but given how an imperceptible change in a sex act could drastically change which sperm gets the egg (or whether a sperm gets an egg), people committing these acts would be different people.  You can rewrite these 'rules' in a fantasy setting with concepts like destiny, but the butterfly effect as a concept says that you're dealing with an entirely different world in the future with even the most minor of changes in the past.

I think this series is pretty clearly going with the alternate universes theory otherwise

[Fordel]

No seriously, a million billion years, why, WHY would they do this.

Every single character went from zero to idiot in the span of like half an episode.

[Pennilenko]

I don't see how people can think Barry went from smart to idiot. He had a chance to save his mother, who was murdered. People he loves and trusts urge him to go back and save her. Seems like he was in a hard situation to me.

[Tannhauser]

Step 1:  Ask Iris for advice.
Step 2:  Do the opposite.

[NowhereMan]

Did anyone bother to ask Wells how him and Barry were enemies when he was from over 100 years in the future? I assume the answer is "lol time travel" but it seems like something they would be curious about.

I'd need to rewatch it but didn't Barry ask Wells/Thawne and he just said something like you don't really care about that or it doesn't matter ? Seems likely futureBarry either failed to save people he loved or he was already in with villains who Barry put away in some permanent fashion (like Phantom Zone permanent rather than dead permanent).

[HaemishM]

You are right, Barry did ask and Wells just glossed it over.

[Fordel]

I don't see how people can think Barry went from smart to idiot. He had a chance to save his mother, who was murdered. People he loves and trusts urge him to go back and save her. Seems like he was in a hard situation to me.

A Chance given to him by the same psycho that murdered his mother. That has been manipulating his entire life for his own ends and that has been murdering anyone who got in his way. The one that has ZERO regard for any life other then his own, and possibly not even that. The one that neglected to mention the one tiny side effect of the entire 'chance'.


Sure, lets go along with the psycho's plan. It'll be fine! They are all fucking morons, every last one of them. Unforgivably stupid.

[satael]

So the show is back with season 2 and it was interesting to see that

[Lakov_Sanite]

Hey now, Barry said he was sorry. 

[HaemishM]

I don't think they TRIED to kill dude, so there's at least that. 

[Khaldun]

They didn't have any problem with locking people up in a gulag without toilets last season, so...

[Tannhauser]

This was a good episode.  Grant Gustin has grown on me, he's not marble-mouthing like he used to (to me). 

As an aside, Hulu is actually working out pretty well for me.  $8 a month and I get access to a lot of broadcast TV the day after it airs.  This cord-cutting may work out.

[Evildrider]

As an aside, Hulu is actually working out pretty well for me.  $8 a month and I get access to a lot of broadcast TV the day after it airs.  This cord-cutting may work out.

Yo Ho...   

[Khaldun]

I have to admit I was watching the very beginning and thinking, "Oh, fuck it, everybody's going to be whining about why didn't the Flash just grab the guns to start with". And then it was, "Oh, good, phew." Though Captain Cold and Heat Wave are coming back in two episodes, so only a reprieve...

[Evildrider]

I have to admit I was watching the very beginning and thinking, "Oh, fuck it, everybody's going to be whining about why didn't the Flash just grab the guns to start with". And then it was, "Oh, good, phew." Though Captain Cold and Heat Wave are coming back in two episodes, so only a reprieve...

Well ya only got 8 episodes to set them up for Legends of Tomorrow. 

[satael]

Another episode and another kill for the Flash. 

[Lakov_Sanite]

Earth2 villains don't even count as real people. 

[HaemishM]

I thought that too, though you know... they didn't say he couldn't reform himself. I mean, he's made of sand.

[satael]

I thought that too, though you know... they didn't say he couldn't reform himself. I mean, he's made of sand.

If they didn't kill the bad guys (permanently) they'd get to interrogate them about what's going on and that would evidently spoil the plot. 

[jgsugden]

Why is everyone so quick to judge?

[Pennilenko]

Why is everyone so quick to judge?

Because I do not like the speed at which they are altering the morals of the Flash and his team.

[HaemishM]

This is a team that seemed quite fine with indefinite, illegal, unconstitutional imprisonment of bad guys so I'm not sure just killing them is any worse.

[satael]

This is a team that seemed quite fine with indefinite, illegal, unconstitutional imprisonment of bad guys so I'm not sure just killing them is any worse.

Maybe it's all just a clever take on the modern America; first you had a Quantanamo and then you go for targeted (drone) killings.  All the bad guys are guilty so any courts etc would just be a waste of time and effort.

[Threash]

I have to admit I was watching the very beginning and thinking, "Oh, fuck it, everybody's going to be whining about why didn't the Flash just grab the guns to start with". And then it was, "Oh, good, phew." Though Captain Cold and Heat Wave are coming back in two episodes, so only a reprieve...

Lol, instead we got to watch Flash run up to super tough/strong guy at super speed then start punching him at normal speed.

[jgsugden]

This is a team that seemed quite fine with indefinite, illegal, unconstitutional imprisonment of bad guys so I'm not sure just killing them is any worse.

Don't be ridiculous... it was merely good old heroic kidnapping and false imprisonment.  They're not the government, after all.

On a more serious note: It'd be interesting to see a criminal imprisoned by the Flash team push for criminal charges for the crimes the Flash team has performed.

[Khaldun]

So we have:

a) STAR Labs which is apparently running off of a big old pile of money that Harrison Wells had stored up. Said pile of money not exhausted by civil suits following him blowing up the facility and giving people metahuman powers. Actually, I would think that anyone who has been hurt or has lost property due to a metahuman could file suit against Wells/STAR even now. Um, which, by the way, would now be filing suit against Barry Allen. And also, for extra fun, nobody in Central City seems to think it's newsworthy that the guy who confessed to being the real murderer of Barry Allen's mother also left all his money and property to Barry Allen.
b) Barry sure has an understanding boss (or no boss at all), considering his weird working hours and habits. But then again, that's totally comic books, so I'm ok with that.
c) Not so comic books: killing the shit out of routine bad guys and not even seeming to comment on it or be worried about it. I guess Sand Demon might reform after a while, it's kind of standard for his type of villain. But Atom-Smasher seemed pretty dead last week.
d) Everybody's a little slow on the uptake re: Jay Garrick coming from a parallel Earth, in the sense that they could have quickly started asking him about their dopplegangers, about metahumans there, etc., all of which might be important. (For example, Garrick's only been the Flash for two years, so...where did his metas get their powers? When did he get his power? Why are there evil metas for Zoom to just start dropping off? etc.)