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Title: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on October 09, 2014, 07:35:51 AM
So as not to lose any discussion on the Flash series in the Arrow thread, I give you THE FLASH!!!

I watched the first episode last night and LOVED it. Whereas I think Arrow needed a few episodes to really gets its feet under it, Flash started extremely strong. It didn't hurt that the character had already been established in Arrow but I think even if you hadn't seen those episodes, you would enjoy this one. For fans of the Flash with lots of prior knowledge of the character, there were a TON of hints and nods. Gorilla Grodd will be showing up, there will be time travel, and the season trailer at the end of the episode showed at the very least Captain Cold and Mirror Master. I can totally recommend the series to anyone that likes comic book action shows.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on October 09, 2014, 08:05:33 AM
I agree that it was promising, especially for a pilot. 

His fast movement effects were a bit disappointing.  I liked Quicksilver in DoFP much better.  However, budget limitations are a real thing, so I guess we can take what we can get.  I'm really curious to see how they manage to introduce a world of super villains on a budget - and which heroes may visit.  Atom, Booster Gold, Blue Beetle all seem likely given the setups on Arrow and Flash (and media coverage).  But will we get Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter, or some of the other major characters?


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on October 09, 2014, 08:32:48 AM
I don't currently expect a lot of the major super hero characters to show up. Villains a plenty - I think they can do most of Flash's villains on a TV budget.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on October 09, 2014, 08:40:29 AM
I don't currently expect a lot of the major super hero characters to show up. Villains a plenty - I think they can do most of Flash's villains on a TV budget.

Third string heroes sure but even though the DC tv-verse is seperate from the movies they won't be doing anything like green lantern in case they want to make another show.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on October 09, 2014, 09:30:19 AM
I don't currently expect a lot of the major super hero characters to show up. Villains a plenty - I think they can do most of Flash's villains on a TV budget.

Third string heroes sure but even though the DC tv-verse is seperate from the movies they won't be doing anything like green lantern in case they want to make another show.

There have been rumblings that they may pop Green Lantern on Flash or Arrow.  I mean they have The Atom on there right now.  It may not be full on GL, but they may have Hal Jordan show up. 


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Threash on October 09, 2014, 11:25:00 AM
Dude is going to cause about a million dollars in car damage per episode.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on October 09, 2014, 07:52:52 PM
Ferris at the airport was a clear Lantern related reference.  I do expect there will be something there, eventually, even if it is a one episode appearance.

Firestorm is also confirmed to appear soon - they've cast both the actors.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: dd0029 on October 12, 2014, 09:38:37 AM
I like Arrow, but first episode was much better than any Arrow episode through the first season and a half I've seen. The real difference is the caliber of the actors. The mandatory melodrama is handled much better, way less overacting. I never felt emoted at and that's a good thing. Hopefully it keeps up.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Thrawn on October 12, 2014, 11:46:11 AM
Liked this a lot better than I did Gotham.  Planning on keeping up with it.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Venkman on October 17, 2014, 08:14:14 PM
Very much enjoying, well, two episodes in anyway :-) It's a good contrast to Arrow. Much less over dramatic stuff. I really like the doctor. I don't know anywhere near anything about the lore of Flash, so am missing all the fanservice and references. I rather enjoy that.

GL could be an interesting spinoff, though I'd rather a movie budget that took the material seriously.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Triforcer on October 20, 2014, 09:32:52 PM
Just caught the first two episodes and really like this.  It has an early seasons Smallville vibe, which is good enough for me.    Bring on the meteor rock/particle accelerator freaks!


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on October 22, 2014, 08:15:03 PM
I thought the villain in the 3rd episode would be  but it turned into . Still a good episode. I'm happy to see that the ratings for this show are even with Agents of SHIELD, which is on a more prominent network and has a bigger marketing budget.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on October 23, 2014, 11:49:34 AM
I prefer Marvel characters to DC, but they're doing a real good job so far.  I wish they'd folded Arrow and Flash into the cinematic stuff and used it as a guide...


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on October 24, 2014, 10:17:46 AM
Flash is great for what it is.  It's about as much of a cartoon-live action transition you can get.  Yes it's cheesy in the way smallville was but you get the direct payoff of the flash actually being The Flash, rather than dicking around with teen drama and superman cockteases.

Sure villains somehow turn to mist and back along with their clothes but this shows slogan should be "Fuck reality, we're having fun" and for this show it works.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on October 24, 2014, 10:46:55 AM
The more "realism" they tried to add to this, the less fun it would be. I'm all for a somewhat naturalistic take on superheroes, even taking a mechanistic approach to how things work if needed, but really - it's goddamn superheroes. The more of that idiotic minutiae a writer gets bogged down in, the less interesting it becomes. Flash wears a special costume that protects him from friction or the "Speed Force" keeps him frictionless - tell it to me once, then move on. It shouldn't really be that important if you are trying to tell a story about people as opposed to a lecture on "how super powers would work."


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on October 24, 2014, 04:15:33 PM
The more "realism" they tried to add to this, the less fun it would be. I'm all for a somewhat naturalistic take on superheroes, even taking a mechanistic approach to how things work if needed, but really - it's goddamn superheroes. The more of that idiotic minutiae a writer gets bogged down in, the less interesting it becomes. Flash wears a special costume that protects him from friction or the "Speed Force" keeps him frictionless - tell it to me once, then move on. It shouldn't really be that important if you are trying to tell a story about people as opposed to a lecture on "how super powers would work."
100% right. 


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Venkman on October 24, 2014, 04:26:37 PM
Agreed. I like the characters too, as they're fun and not as heavy. Wasn't much a fan of the drama around the fiancee and heroic death stuff. But then, comic book show... is he really dead? dun dun duuuunnnnn.

Good to see Felicity coming next week, and in particular how the two shows work together. They may not have figured out the movies consistently, but if they don't screw this up, they could spin up a third hero series. I'd rather not see a JLA movie for awhile though, not until they figure out what their groove on the movie side.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on October 25, 2014, 05:34:47 PM
Confirmed that Grodd will be on this season of Flash.   :awesome_for_real:

(http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130305202416/dcanimated/images/4/47/Grodd.png)


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on October 25, 2014, 10:40:16 PM
Agreed. I like the characters too, as they're fun and not as heavy. Wasn't much a fan of the drama around the fiancee and heroic death stuff. But then, comic book show... is he really dead? dun dun duuuunnnnn.

You do know that Ronnie Raymond becomes Firestorm in the comics as well as on the show. Because that's who he is. Essentially, if you see someone on this show, chances are they will become a super hero, super villain or be related or married to one given enough time.

Also, cannot wait for GRODD!!!!!!


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Venkman on October 26, 2014, 07:13:38 PM
I kinda figured he's become something, but I am ok with learning at the pace the show wants to tell me. In fact, this is my biggest problem with Gotham. I know just enough about the lore that all the build up to all what the characters will eventually become just seems too slow and tedious.

In Flash and Arrow, my ignorance of comic books is bliss :-)

Also just remembered something else: was her and his debates about honeymooning in Tahiti a dig at Agents of Shield?


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on October 26, 2014, 07:22:07 PM
Given how well so much of this show has been handled, I am VERY curious to see Grodd and Firestorm.  Especially Firestorm.  That is a hard nut to bring to TV.  


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on October 30, 2014, 10:18:59 AM
CAPTAIN COLD!!!! And the start of the Rogue's Gallery!

Fuck yeah.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Venkman on November 01, 2014, 09:31:02 PM
As usual Smoak is awesome. Thought this episode was ok otherwise, not awesome. But I suspect "awesome" is directly related to level of awareness in the easter eggs :-)

Any idea if this is on the bubble ratings-wise? Any idea if that means anything here? Like, this feels like the kind of show that needs to be successful for DC and therefore won't be governed by the same decisions and timing as, say, Almost Human.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on November 01, 2014, 09:52:22 PM
Flash already got picked up for a full season.  It's getting a little bit better ratings than Arrow atm.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on November 01, 2014, 10:58:14 PM
I posted earlier that it got ratings comparable to Agents of SHIELD, which is on a bigger network that is more widely available. That's good ratings for a CW show.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on November 02, 2014, 08:01:53 AM
The good news about this being on the CW is that the ratings needed to survive are nowhere near what are needed on ABC, CBS, NBC, etc.... The show seems to be on path for at least a Vampire Diaries (5+ seasons)like run, if not a Supernatural (10+ seasons) like run. 


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Venkman on November 02, 2014, 08:10:56 AM
Ah awesome. So you're saying there's a chance /jimcarrey :-)


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on November 02, 2014, 09:58:53 AM
Ah awesome. So you're saying there's a chance /jimcarrey :-)
Unless the show takes a huge dive in quality, DC sabotages it to avoid confusion with the screen Flash, or the CW as a network takes a huge step forward and raises their standards considerably, I will be shocked if Arrow and Flash do not reach 7 seasons each. 

My bet is that we'll see Booster Gold, Blue Beetle, Green Lantern and many other DC heroes in this continuity (joining Arrow, Flash, Huntress, Firestorm, Suicide Squad, Atom, etc...), even if they do not get their own series - and when Arrow goes, they'll at least look at replacing it with another DC series in the same continuity. 

I think they'd be smart to establish that there is a Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, etc... in this world, even if we never see them.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Ironwood on November 13, 2014, 02:08:28 PM
That pilot didn't suck.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on November 13, 2014, 02:17:03 PM
No, it didn't. And it gets better. The last episode was Plastique and though her acting is a bit wooden, the episode advances the story pretty good. I think I've gone all fanbois over this show. It may easily be my favorite thing to watch right now.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Fordel on November 13, 2014, 03:22:58 PM
My favorite part about the show is they somehow transported Green from Law and Order into the DC TV universe. It's like, virtually the same character and it's great.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: kaid on November 14, 2014, 08:32:01 AM
My favorite part about the show is they somehow transported Green from Law and Order into the DC TV universe. It's like, virtually the same character and it's great.

I know it adds a lot because everybody is so familiar with him doing basically the same role that even my mom enjoys it.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: pxib on November 14, 2014, 03:02:05 PM
The more "realism" they tried to add to this, the less fun it would be. I'm all for a somewhat naturalistic take on superheroes, even taking a mechanistic approach to how things work if needed, but really - it's goddamn superheroes. The more of that idiotic minutiae a writer gets bogged down in, the less interesting it becomes
Counterpoint:

I explicitly do not recommend that anybody read the rest of this web serial because it's not very good... I gave up before I got very far, and I regret how far I got. Regardless, this early chapter (http://docfuture.tumblr.com/post/34152071413/flicker-phone-tag) is my favorite fantasy description of the sort of bullshit that speedsters do when they interact (even slightly) with physics.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on November 27, 2014, 08:47:29 AM
The tricky thing with this show is that they're going with the happy, upbeat, basically nice-guy Barry Allen, as they should. But that means they need a straw to stir the drink. In the history of the comic character, there's never really been anything like that in Barry's life--his Rogues and his powers were the main thing that kept it interesting. They introduced some marital tension later in Barry's relationship with Iris but even that was kind of average suburban white-guy marital tension--Iris was never really a distinctive personality in her own right, just slightly shrewish when they needed to spice Barry's life. (There was a strange mini-arc around the same time where Barry was having repressed groinal feelings whenever he was around Zatanna in the Justice League).

The show has solved that problem pretty brilliantly with Harrison Wells. Not only is it difficult to decide exactly who he is or what his game is, he's being played so well by Cavanaugh that they're almost going to have to find a way to keep him in the frame. He's the show's Felicity.

The other STAR characters are awful, and Iris is pretty much this show's Laurel--almost unbearable at times.

I'm trying to think of a twist that will keep the show interesting after they pull whatever trigger they're working up to. I hope they're thinking about it too.

---------------

Lotta Easter Eggs in the last episode, by the way: by Harrison Wells' own count, his machine may have powered up a good slice of the Justice League and the Justice Society--I heard the civilian IDs of Elongated Man, Nuklon/Atom Smasher, Damage, Fire, and Amazing Man, as well as, once again, Firestorm. Only the first person Wells' listed as a casualty wasn't a recognizable name. I doubt they can actually introduce Elongated Man--the effects on that are really hard to pull off. Damage you'd have to play as a villain, and Atom Smasher is mostly interesting only as a legacy hero. Amazing Man, well, if SHIELD can have someone with that powerset, so can this show.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on November 27, 2014, 09:05:51 AM
Yeah, I recognized a few of those Easter Egg names but not all of them. Elongated Man wouldn't be that hard to pull off... hell, the Roger Corman Fantastic Four movie did it respectably considering they spent nothing on it and merely did camera tricks. Can't be any harder to pull off than Firestorm will be.

I disagree about Iris - no one is as annoying as Laurel. Also, Iris is MUCH hotter. I think they've actually done a better job with the supporting cast on Flash than they have on Arrow. There's nobody on the cast I want to nut punch the minute I see them (see the aforementioned Laurel).


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on November 27, 2014, 02:22:54 PM
Yeah, I recognized a few of those Easter Egg names but not all of them. Elongated Man wouldn't be that hard to pull off... hell, the Roger Corman Fantastic Four movie did it respectably considering they spent nothing on it and merely did camera tricks. Can't be any harder to pull off than Firestorm will be.

I disagree about Iris - no one is as annoying as Laurel. Also, Iris is MUCH hotter. I think they've actually done a better job with the supporting cast on Flash than they have on Arrow. There's nobody on the cast I want to nut punch the minute I see them (see the aforementioned Laurel).

No one tops Felicity. 

(http://media.tumblr.com/9f6bacdd11ee47fc58ac56debe026756/tumblr_inline_n28mk4r6vJ1rkf4dx.jpg)


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 27, 2014, 06:05:47 PM
I like dad cop whose name I can't remember.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on November 28, 2014, 05:48:22 AM
Cisco annoys the fuck out of me. Considering that he has the same civilian name as Vibe, that's staying reasonably close to the source material, but still.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on November 30, 2014, 09:51:00 AM
Just a little note: Supergirl (CBS) may be part of this shared universe if it goes to series.  It is going to get to an odd point if the only things missing from this shared universe are the big three of DC...


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on November 30, 2014, 12:26:30 PM
Well, we know for sure that Wayne Enterprises exists in the shared universe, because of the newspaper from 2024 that Wells was looking at. It mentions Wayne merging with Queen Consolidated.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on November 30, 2014, 03:36:09 PM
They have had Wayne Enterprises pop up in the background on Arrow too.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Tannhauser on November 30, 2014, 05:23:49 PM
So is this the Wayne Enterprises of Gotham (and young Bruce Wayne) or the one with Christian Bale?  Or is it a totally different third Wayne Enterprises?  My head hurts.



Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on November 30, 2014, 08:43:11 PM
It is unlikely that they would link Gotham to these two (or three?) series.  I imagine that if they get the blessing to do a Batman in the GA/Flash continuity, it will be a new Batman.  Personally, I think they're testing the water with Flash to see if they can do a TV and movie franchise at the same time with the same character.  If it works, I think we might get Batman as a replacement for Arrow in 5 or 6 years....


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on December 03, 2014, 08:39:45 AM
I'm trying to figure out if I like the look of our new meta... I was curious how they'd do it. It isn't bad, but it just didn't sit right with me either.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on December 03, 2014, 07:56:25 PM
Who? "Prism?" Not exactly a sophisticated effect on the bad guy. Though it was a good episode!


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on December 03, 2014, 08:08:17 PM
Who? "Prism?" Not exactly a sophisticated effect on the bad guy. Though it was a good episode!


It's Rainbow Raider!   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on December 03, 2014, 08:10:37 PM
I was sort of curious about whether Cisco was gonna go there, but since they pretty much re-did Roy G. Bivolo as the Psycho-Pirate with only one emotion to his credit, I figured there wasn't any sense to Cisco calling him that.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on December 05, 2014, 11:14:50 PM
They called him Rainbow Raider in jest, so they at least got the name in there.  :why_so_serious: Did anyone else notice they pretty much confirmed not only the existence of Batman but the fact that he's been around a while and is at least as violent as Arrow?

I was grinning the whole time through this episode and the crossover Arrow episode. Love what they've done with Captain Boomerang (ASHUR!).


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Tannhauser on December 06, 2014, 03:19:25 AM
Wait, how did they confirm Batman?  Ashur.  Ok now I remember where I've seen him. Driving me crazy.  The crossover event was really good I thought.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on December 06, 2014, 03:57:51 PM
Harrison Wells and Joe West were talking to Barry about the Arrow's methods and they mentioned that Batman's had similar violent methods and it doesn't end well or some such. But they clearly said Batman.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on December 06, 2014, 04:11:25 PM
Who? "Prism?" Not exactly a sophisticated effect on the bad guy. Though it was a good episode!

No, at the end of the episode.... Firestorm.

...and I did not hear the name Batman at all....


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Ceryse on December 06, 2014, 04:21:45 PM
Harrison Wells and Joe West were talking to Barry about the Arrow's methods and they mentioned that Batman's had similar violent methods and it doesn't end well or some such. But they clearly said Batman.

No, they said "that man", not "Batman".

They actually aren't allowed to mentioned Batman, Superman, Gotham or Metropolis in Arrow or The Flash, apparently.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on December 06, 2014, 05:07:09 PM
I could swear they said Batman. I was tired but I didn't think I was that tired.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Threash on December 06, 2014, 05:30:18 PM

They actually aren't allowed to mentioned Batman, Superman, Gotham or Metropolis in Arrow or The Flash, apparently.

But they can mention Wayne enterprises?


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on December 06, 2014, 05:34:33 PM
This blogger (http://moviepilot.com/posts/2014/12/05/did-the-flash-crossover-really-mention-batman-2483568?lt_source=external,manual) seems to agree with the "that man" being what was said, though he thinks it was said with some ambiguity as perhaps an easter egg. Since we do know that Wayne Enterprises does exist, I'll just choose to believe he meant Batman.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Ceryse on December 06, 2014, 06:00:54 PM
But they can mention Wayne enterprises?

Well, technically (as I understand it), they mainly just can't mention Gotham or Metropolis. As for the Wayne Enterprises mention it supposedly was grandfathered as the restriction came afterwards or something. Don't really know the details, just what one of the producers for Arrow/Flash mentioned not being able to mention the aforementioned cities and such.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on December 06, 2014, 08:55:15 PM
Basically the movie side of Warners has to give any ok for the TV side to use anything.  The whole Batman/Superman thing is because they don't want "overexposure" of these two specific people/properties.  So although they can use stuff like Ras Al'Gul they can't mention Batman's ties to him.  Even the Harley Easter Egg last season had a lot of hurdles for them to jump through to do it.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Tannhauser on December 07, 2014, 07:11:13 AM
I remember a map of DC cities (not going to look it up), but I assume Star(ling) City is the stand in for San Francisco and I like to think Central City is St. Louis. 

Enjoyed the Flash punching Arrow hundreds of times, too bad the kid is a spaghetti armed punk.  :awesome_for_real:

I'm STILL not comfortable with Grant Gustin as the Flash, he seems too young but maybe I'll get over it.  This show clearly needs more Felicity with a bra.  :heart:


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: MahrinSkel on December 07, 2014, 10:51:04 AM
Starling City is roughly San Francisco (which somehow also exists in the DC universe), but Central City is actually equivalent to Kansas City. here's that map (http://ifanboy.com/articles/the-secret-geography-of-the-dc-universe-a-really-big-map/) you were too lazy to link, although you may have to open the image in a new window to actually read anything.

Apparently New England has so many cognate cities that are standing in for the same real ones that it needed it's own map. I suspect some kind of dimensional warping, with memory holes so people don't notice there are 7 different cities on Manhattan Island.

--Dave


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on December 07, 2014, 12:48:34 PM
It was "That man". Even makes sense in context.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on December 07, 2014, 05:40:35 PM
The location of DC cities was intentionally vague - and conflicting - for a long time.  I was unaware they locked them down on a map... and the comic map does not need to match up to the TV map.  I was picturing both Starling and Central being on the West Coast as I watched the shows.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on December 07, 2014, 09:18:52 PM
They aren't very far apart in the TV-verse. I think they said about 300 miles.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Tannhauser on December 08, 2014, 04:11:13 AM
Ok then, if that's the case we can try to determine what real city Central City is overlaid on.  Also, I don't ever see a coast when they show Central City.  So, inland and 300 miles from San Francisco means  *googling*...Thousand Oaks/Simi Valley CA!  :why_so_serious:

Why yes I am bored.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on December 08, 2014, 04:32:24 AM
I thought Starling City was Seattle.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Ceryse on December 08, 2014, 06:17:36 AM
I thought Central City was on the coast due to the episode where the Flash runs Plastique out to the ocean before she explodes.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on December 08, 2014, 10:45:54 AM
I don't think there are perfect equivalents.  Starling is clearly based upon Seattle in feel (with some SF/Oakland tossed into it), but could be anywhere on the Northern California, Oregon or Washington coasts.  Central City could literally be anywhere in those states... near a big and wide river.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: MrHat on December 08, 2014, 12:10:12 PM
I'd hate to say it but I enjoyed the cross over.

I think what I like most about this Flash show (never read any comics or whatnot) is that the bad guys have powers that sorta make sense in giving someone with super duper speed trouble.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on December 08, 2014, 12:50:35 PM
The crossover was fucking awesome. Comic geek wet dream. Also, Felicity in a bra.  :drill:


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Tannhauser on December 08, 2014, 02:27:54 PM
I thought Central City was on the coast due to the episode where the Flash runs Plastique out to the ocean before she explodes.

You're right.  I stand corrected.  So maybe Central City is Portland.  535 miles apart.  So that's the town I'll think of.  Not that it really matters except to my nerd brain.



Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on December 08, 2014, 03:15:45 PM
...
I think what I like most about this Flash show (never read any comics or whatnot) is that the bad guys have powers that sorta make sense in giving someone with super duper speed trouble.
I would kind of like to see a couple guys with impressive Super powers that are totally tooled by Flash speed.  Maybe just as a first act goodie on an episode that runs short. 

My criticism of the DC comics world on screen is that the heroes are too powerful.  If you directly translate the comics, you end up with things that just look ridiculous.  They've avoided that here.

This Flash runs hundreds of miles per hour (so far).  In the comics, the Flashes can run faster than light speed (671,080,888 mph) via the Speed Force.  That makes this Flash more like a slower Quicksilver (who runs about 7500 MPH at top speed, I think) - far more Marvel and less DC in power levels.  I'm betting this Flash will eventually get up to much faster speeds, but for now it isn't too bad - although I'm a little unclear on how gravity impacts him (when he runs up a slope, it seems like he should be launched off of it...)



Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on December 08, 2014, 03:24:19 PM
He will be traveling through time, so we know he's going to get to RIDICULOUS SPEEDS!!!!


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on December 08, 2014, 03:57:57 PM
He will be traveling through time, so we know he's going to get to RIDICULOUS LUDICROUS SPEEDS!!!!

(https://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzrnhctD7E1r44mjwo1_500.gif)


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on December 08, 2014, 04:03:45 PM
He will be traveling through time, so we know he's going to get to RIDICULOUS SPEEDS!!!!


I am pretty sure we are gonna see close to full power Flash in the TV show.  They've already ramped up his speed since the beginning of the show.  Also the fact that
Also the Flash series has changed the minds of the Arrow writers and they aren't going to stray away from metahumans as a rule anymore.  Which can also lead to an actual Black Canary with a real Canary Cry.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on December 09, 2014, 04:38:07 AM
Mark Hamill is going to reprise his role as the Trickster from the older Flash series.

That's awesome.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on December 09, 2014, 02:35:59 PM
Kind of a quirky idea - what if the current Flash TV series is in the same continuity as the old 80s one - and Reverse Flash is his dad, the original Flash? 


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Raph on December 10, 2014, 12:26:20 AM
As of tonight, that theory is Not It, since they went with the obvious thing they've been leading up to all season instead. :)


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Tannhauser on December 10, 2014, 03:53:57 AM
Yeah, it was obvious, but the episode was quite good.  Not only for the superhero scenes, which were good, but with Caitlin and Cisco (who finally flesh out more as real people, so much so that I actually remember their names now).  Heck, even Grant Gustin showed a little more gravitas, which was very welcome.

This show is really dialed in.



Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on December 10, 2014, 04:33:31 AM
Actually I think things are still pretty mysterious re: the Reverse-Flash's identity.


This show is a lot of fun. They're throwing out Easter eggs all over the place but also keeping anyone who knows the comics guessing all the time.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: cironian on December 10, 2014, 10:20:10 AM

Awesome show, I'm really happy with what the Arrow/Flash creative teams are doing. I hope similiar shows from now on will learn from it. (Though, judging by the recent announcements, maybe not...  :heartbreak:)


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on December 10, 2014, 10:36:45 AM
Actually I think things are still pretty mysterious re: the Reverse-Flash's identity.


This show is a lot of fun. They're throwing out Easter eggs all over the place but also keeping anyone who knows the comics guessing all the time.



Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on December 10, 2014, 12:20:27 PM


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: NowhereMan on December 11, 2014, 09:28:45 AM

I've really liked this and Arrow, enjoyed Smallville too when it wasn't spending whole story arcs on teenage soap opera. I can't really grasp how DC's properties can be so well handled in TV format and come out with flop after flop on the big screen. The lesson you'd imagine would be learned is let the comic heroes come through and maybe even consider some of the lesser known names with some more creative freedom.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on December 11, 2014, 01:07:01 PM
If you think about it, the two Reverse Flashes/Zooms in the comics have different motivations.

Eobard Thawne, the one from the future, is just a psycho who is obsessed with the idea of crime in a society that has little crime, and then secondarily by the legend of the Flash. Over time they made that connection denser and more complicated--he studies the Flash and the Speed Force extensively in the future, he was attracted to the Flash's wife, then he was actually distantly related to the Flash, etc.

Hunter Zolomon, the one from the present, was friends with the Flash, but eventually begs the Flash to travel through time and undo a trauma he's suffered. When the Flash refuses, he tries himself to travel in time and ends up gaining powers that are kind of like superspeed but not really. He decides to make Wally a better Flash by causing him personal trauma so that he becomes a much stronger and faster version.

----

The complicated thing is that the Reverse Flash and Wells both seem to have some elements of both stories involved, but I feel like there are a few things they're still really holding back from us.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Pennilenko on December 11, 2014, 01:36:07 PM
I am willing to wager that they are kind of combining, what they think are, the best bits of all of the flash stories.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on December 12, 2014, 09:28:26 AM
The idea of the '90's Flash show being in continuity just got a lot stronger. Amanda Pays character is named exactly the same as her character on the original show - Tina McGee. I don't think John Wesley Shipp is Reverse Flash that killed Barry's mother. I think he's the Flash that was FIGHTING Reverse Flash in that little flash back.

Firestorm flying was fucking awesome.



Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Tannhauser on December 12, 2014, 04:05:24 PM
The idea of the '90's Flash show being in continuity just got a lot stronger. Amanda Pays character is named exactly the same as her character on the original show - Tina McGee. I don't think John Wesley Shipp is Reverse Flash that killed Barry's mother. I think he's the Flash that was FIGHTING Reverse Flash in that little flash back.

Firestorm flying was fucking awesome.


Oh wow, that's awesome to think about, but it might just be an easter egg.  I really hope not though!  I was wondering where I saw Amanda Pays before.

The 90's Flash wasn't bad, but it never had a chance to get up to speed *ahem*.  This new show blows it away.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on December 12, 2014, 07:07:13 PM
Anyone rememeber anything about that show?  What were the comic words they used to explain the powers...?


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Merusk on December 12, 2014, 08:22:58 PM
Lighting strike throws him into chemicals was the  backstory. Don't remember the exact words.

Oh hey there were no words. Thanks youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH7-kn_qVAE


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on December 12, 2014, 08:36:27 PM
There's a picture going around that's kind of hard to make out but it shows Firestorm in a costume of some kind, so they're going to go full superhero with this. Maybe looking for a third show?


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on December 12, 2014, 08:55:55 PM
Robbie Amell posted that Firestorm pic on Facebook or Twitter.  It is dark on purpose, but it looks awesome.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on December 12, 2014, 09:08:35 PM
Good pic - I wonder if it gets any special effects before air?

I don't think they want to be bound by the first series trappings given the Wikipedia episode summaries I read.  If they - against al odds - decided to incorporate the prior series, I think they'd keep the references to the old show very vague and not delve into the details too much... sort of a 'you can decide for yourself whether the old show is part of this universe or not'.  Or, they could establish that it takes place in an alternate universe...


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on December 13, 2014, 07:49:06 AM
Good pic - I wonder if it gets any special effects before air?

I don't think they want to be bound by the first series trappings given the Wikipedia episode summaries I read.  If they - against al odds - decided to incorporate the prior series, I think they'd keep the references to the old show very vague and not delve into the details too much... sort of a 'you can decide for yourself whether the old show is part of this universe or not'.  Or, they could establish that it takes place in an alternate universe...

The more we see the more I'm inclined to think it's exactly this.  Frankly that's the best way to do it, keep the past show a sort of mythology where no one can ever really confirm every little detail but know the bones of the stories were true.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on December 13, 2014, 08:34:44 AM
I'm pretty sure that Firestorm is not going to have flaming hair every time he appears. That's pretty much a quick route to "This series' effects cost too much". (Or it's close cousin, "Wow that looks cheap.")


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Merusk on December 13, 2014, 11:15:37 AM
Pft. Ligher fluid's cheap.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on December 13, 2014, 02:07:33 PM
I'm pretty sure that Firestorm is not going to have flaming hair every time he appears. That's pretty much a quick route to "This series' effects cost too much". (Or it's close cousin, "Wow that looks cheap.")
I think there is a good chance we see a lot of little Arnell's real face, but I think we see a lot of flame-head as well.  The flaming effect doesn't need to be that expensive of an effect if they do a lot of distance shots. 


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Merusk on December 13, 2014, 03:42:20 PM
Even if they don't, effects like that are pretty cheap these days. They're not creating a custom model and mapping it to an actor's movements on a weekly basis, they're masking part of his head with a layer in After Effects or something similar.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on December 13, 2014, 09:36:00 PM
Even if they don't, effects like that are pretty cheap these days. They're not creating a custom model and mapping it to an actor's movements on a weekly basis, they're masking part of his head with a layer in After Effects or something similar.
They also did some nice work on lighting the surrounding area around the actor somehow...


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: NowhereMan on December 16, 2014, 04:42:36 AM
The idea of the '90's Flash show being in continuity just got a lot stronger. Amanda Pays character is named exactly the same as her character on the original show - Tina McGee. I don't think John Wesley Shipp is Reverse Flash that killed Barry's mother. I think he's the Flash that was FIGHTING Reverse Flash in that little flash back.

Firestorm flying was fucking awesome.


On the spoiler speculation
I kind of like the time travel element they've pulled into this and it's going to be interesting to see if they resolve it without everything being clownshoes.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on December 16, 2014, 09:36:26 AM
I'm nervous about the Time Travel aspect.  It is really hard to pull off a character that can literally go back and change results if he doesn't like them.  The only time travel show I liked - so far - was Journeyman.  I'm hoping this show is a second.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on December 16, 2014, 10:24:41 PM
I'm nervous about the Time Travel aspect.  It is really hard to pull off a character that can literally go back and change results if he doesn't like them.  The only time travel show I liked - so far - was Journeyman.  I'm hoping this show is a second.

I get the feeling time travel in the context of this show isn't easy, else Wells wouldn't be getting confirmation from a computer on what has and hasn't changed in the timeline as happened a couple times already.  Going into the past may have even been a one way trip and his whole scheme now might be acquiring the tech to get back.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: NowhereMan on December 17, 2014, 12:13:39 AM
It may even be that the Wells we know hasn't actually gone back in time yet but has contact with someone from the future (even himself) and is aware of future events. Nothing we've seen so far shows more than he is familiar with future tech and knows about at least one thing that's going to happen.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Venkman on December 22, 2014, 07:47:57 AM
July 24th


I'm nervous about the Time Travel aspect.  It is really hard to pull off a character that can literally go back and change results if he doesn't like them.  

Me too. It's either all time travel or it's all normal world crime fighting. I'm also nervous about the comment of metahumans appearing in Arrow. That show is Batman, Flash is Superman, and that works fine for me :-)

One thing NOT working is that is seems like the CW app isn't showing the end scenes where some major insights are prevented. For example:


That is not in the full episode video in the app it seems.

Cisco and the other girl are annoying me but no more so than the two scientist people from Agents of SHIELD, which I gave up on halfway through last season so no idea what's become of them. Wells is fantastic and Iris is getting less annoying (better than season one Laurel anyway...) I like the upbeat nature of the show in general. It's a good offset to just-nothing-ever-goes-right-Arrow  :oh_i_see:

The crossover episodes were fantastic, but I'm missing all of the easter eggs you all keep talking about. Which is why I'm glad we have these threads  :grin:

Edit: oh and on that map. I always though Metropolis and Gotham were both NYC, just different parts of it (Wall Street and Midtown for Superman, bad-neighborhood-of-the-decade for Gotham, which at my age when reading the comics was like Harlem and 42nd street).


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on December 22, 2014, 08:52:47 AM
...Cisco and the other girl are annoying me but no more so than the two scientist people from Agents of SHIELD, which I gave up on halfway through last season so no idea what's become of them. ...
The show has been much better since the events of Cap 2.  Much.  I always liked it, but a lot of people that gave up on it mid-season 1 came back and are glad they did.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Venkman on December 22, 2014, 01:02:35 PM
Hmm, ok. Caught up on everything else over the weekend, so will queue up some Agents. Should I start just with this season or is there an episode in last season I should start with (assuming it'll lead up to a season finale that sets up this season)?


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Slyfeind on December 23, 2014, 03:44:10 PM
Hmm, ok. Caught up on everything else over the weekend, so will queue up some Agents. Should I start just with this season or is there an episode in last season I should start with (assuming it'll lead up to a season finale that sets up this season)?

For AoS? I'd say watch the pilot episode and then the last three episodes of Season 1. Skip everything in the middle.  :grin:


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on December 23, 2014, 04:04:41 PM
I disagree - if you were in the middle of Season 1 when you quit, I'd just start where you left off.  If you want to skip to the first much better episode, I'd say The End of the Beginning (Episode 16) is the place to start.  I'd rewatch it, then Watch Cap 2, then watch the rest of the series.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Venkman on December 23, 2014, 06:49:57 PM
Sweet that sounds good. Only recently saw Cap 2, so it's fresh, but also worth watching again.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on January 21, 2015, 08:29:09 AM
I was disappointed by this last episode. We've seen Flash struggle to beat buys that essentially had fancy guns. It seemed like he should have been able to run around them and pluck the guns from their hands with ease, but they didn't have that sensible thing happen because they wanted - for story reasons - to have him struggle.

And shooting him with a missile to test him? What if the sudden turn of the missile detonated it?

This was the first episode that really failed the suspension of disbelief test for me... these things pulled me right out of the show.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Pennilenko on January 21, 2015, 09:00:36 AM
It's a show about a guy with "speed force",I don't really care about them being realistic. I don't need my super hero tv shows to mesh with real world mechanics for me to enjoy them.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: shiznitz on January 21, 2015, 10:00:14 AM
I started watching this on my commute home. Wow is network TV bad.

I want to like this show and kind of do despite how contrived the whole thing feels compared to SoA, Walking Dead, Breaking Bad, etc.  It has this nice shiny happy polish on it that is just annoying plus the in your face references by the characters to previous episodes that are clearly there for those who might not have watched them are almost jarring because real people wouldn't bring them up that way.

This really makes me hope Netflix can do Daredevil right.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Threash on January 21, 2015, 11:47:46 AM
I spent the last episode yelling JUST SHOOT THEM, IT'S JUST TWO DUDES at the TV.  Cross the streams? wtf, just run up and fucking punch them.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on January 21, 2015, 01:21:33 PM
It's a basic problem with superspeed characters, though. Either they have to be up against slower people who are really tough and strong (and therefore the speedster can hit them to little effect) or against characters who have some ability to cope with superspeed, either through speed of their own or unusual intelligence, etc.

Or their enemies have to be able to outthink the speedster. Some versions of Cold, Heat Wave, etc. do stuff like routinely spray the ground all around them with an area effect attack to make it impossible for the Flash to directly attack them. They sort of played around with that a bit at one point in the big fight sequence, when Snart sprayed the ground. I think the main way you can explain it away this time is just: a) Barry is inexperienced and b) Wells and Cisco told him he'd have to cross the streams so he got obsessed with that plan and didn't think for himself.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Threash on January 21, 2015, 01:36:48 PM
I wasn't even thinking about the Flash though, i was yelling at the cops.  Hell, there is no reason that entire block shouldn't have been covered by snipers. As far as villains go "guys with fancy guns" are bottom tier let's-leave-this-one-for-Marvin-and-the-wonder-twins level threats.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on January 21, 2015, 03:54:51 PM
I don't expect realism.  I expect fluidity that doesn't break suspension of disbelief.  That requires minimal levels of sensibility to the actions of the characters.  Basically, they can't be idiots.

This was the first episode where I really felt like they crossed the line.  

Obviously, you've got two guys shooting guns that can kill people.  There is no reason for the cops not to take them out.  There is no reason for the Flash not to run away and come back at them from a direction they are not facing and take the gun away before they can point it at him (or otherwise disable it).  It was really lazy writing.  Far beneath what this show has given us in the past - the prior villains and their interactions with Barry made sense for the most part.

The key here is that a comic book artist can get away with a lot more idiocy because we're getting a series of still pictures - not live action - in the comics.  As such, a battle between the flash and a guy with a glorified gun doesn't scream imbalance on the comic page.  They have to realize it will on screen and adjust for it.

The only part I liked was the discussion of ...


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Tannhauser on January 21, 2015, 05:19:34 PM
I spent the last episode yelling JUST SHOOT THEM, IT'S JUST TWO DUDES at the TV.  Cross the streams? wtf, just run up and fucking punch them.

Yeah, same thoughts here.  A bit disappointed with this episode.  Lazy writing.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on January 22, 2015, 06:21:41 PM
They've set up Cold as a methodical planner. I think "appear in public with superguns and just fight the fast superhero while cops watch" wasn't much of a methodical plan. Next time around he really needs to live up to that billing better.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on January 22, 2015, 08:08:35 PM
I figured it out.  His plan was so genius that mere mortals can't figure out how it was genius.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Tebonas on January 23, 2015, 01:11:01 AM
For whatever reason he had for it, his plan was for the Flash to appear in public for everyone to see. He and his brother partner in crime were just the bait.

Why the cops didn't just put a bullet in their heads with snipers is another question altogether. Maybe its wishful thinking how police is supposed to work instead of how it is working in reality carried to ridiculous nonviolent extremes?


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on January 23, 2015, 02:39:32 AM
The cops not shooting probably had something to do with them still having Caitlin hostage somewhere.  Also they were probably too busy watching what was going on since they haven't ever seen the Flash, let alone the flash in action before.

Also the Flash isn't as fast as some of you are assuming yet.  He hasn't hit the potential to where everyone is pretty much standing still.  I mean Cold and Heat Wave had no problems tracking him when he was zipping around during the fight.  It looks like they are probably going to carry on with Flash almost getting his ass handed too him and then going all comeback on the baddies asses.
 
As for Cold's plan, the outcome was assumed.  He was only surprised by Flash "crossing the streams."  We just had Cold operating with Heat Wave all episode and Heat is dense and crazy.  Cold obviously only tells him what he needs to know at the time.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Threash on January 23, 2015, 07:39:38 AM
Also the Flash isn't as fast as some of you are assuming yet.  He hasn't hit the potential to where everyone is pretty much standing still. 

"You know, when we fight it's like you are standing still" is literally what he told Ollie when they fought.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: satael on January 23, 2015, 07:56:39 AM
Also the Flash isn't as fast as some of you are assuming yet.  He hasn't hit the potential to where everyone is pretty much standing still. 

"You know, when we fight it's like you are standing still" is literally what he told Ollie when they fought.
That sums up my problem with the flash. He can read (and assimilate information) at an incredible speed (like he did with the F.I.R.E.S.T.O.R.M paper and every time he is moving at full speed and avoiding obstacles) so any fights should be a piece of cake for him when he can think through all the options in a fraction of a second compared to that it  would take a normal person seconds to do the same. The fire&ice guys should have basically zero chance against the flash when their reactions are at normal speed unless their area of effect was huge (which it wasn't).


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on January 23, 2015, 08:49:03 AM
Also the Flash isn't as fast as some of you are assuming yet.  He hasn't hit the potential to where everyone is pretty much standing still. 

"You know, when we fight it's like you are standing still" is literally what he told Ollie when they fought.

He was, after all, trash-talking Ollie.

And Ollie's point to Barry is still somewhat valid here--that Barry doesn't think at all strategically about his power and what it might allow, that he's mostly just going "wow, wow, look at how fast I'm going" and then reacting to what other people do. Still, if that's the character arc they have planned for the Flash--that he starts as kind of naive about his powers and gets smarter--the battle scenes and the antagonists are going to have to get smarter along the way. If I were a non-superspeed antagonist like Cold, I think I'd have to pick an environment that hampers the Flash's movements if I were going to try to fight him--full of dangerous objects, full of frictionless surfaces, full of civilians, something. Ambush really seems like the only major way for a non-invulnerable, non-metapowered character to get the better of the Flash.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Tannhauser on January 23, 2015, 02:28:41 PM
Hasn't the Flash taken guns out of criminals hands previously in this series?  If so then whats the difference here?

It was just lazy writing.  I was expecting a 'home field advantage' where the two criminals had prepared the fighting area (icy spots, cars to blow up, etc.).

That's totally leaving the cops out of the equation as well.



Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Triforcer on January 24, 2015, 08:42:26 PM
Flash has problems that no other superhero tv series has.  Arrow, Batman, etc. aren't metahuman.  Smallville worked because all the angsty teens fought by teen Clark got their powers from kryptonite.  Because of that, it didn't seem weird that he couldn't solve every problem in less than a second by running and punching.  

The Flash writers are going to need to be VERY creative to create plausible scenarios that can't be solved before the first commercial break by running and punching.  The last episode wasn't even the worst.  Flash defeated mist guy a few episodes ago by   

  


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on January 24, 2015, 09:01:43 PM
This was my concern with taking Flash to screen with a TV budget - but I was impressed by how well thy handled it early on.  Hopefully they can figure it out.

Of course, the Supervillain in me still wants someone to string some very high tension thin wire at neck height inside the open doorway of a store where they're about to set off an alarm...


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on February 17, 2015, 10:39:31 PM
I really like how they did Firestorm in this episode.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on February 18, 2015, 10:07:40 AM
Looks like for now they're happy to leave the atomic restructuring power off the list, but you could see even in this episode how it might still be in the mix, given the explanation of how they combine/split.

I think they did a good job of establishing the characters as potentially appealing enough to sustain yet another series, or just to be the equivalent of Huntress/Black Canary etc., a returning presence in this show. Firestorm is a convenient possible deus ex machina at any rate both because of Stein's scientific knowledge and because you could suddenly introduce the atomic restructuring power to get the Flash out of a jam.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on February 18, 2015, 10:42:03 AM
I am a bit disappointed and relieved that they did not (yet?) give Firestorm his full set of powers.  He is ridiculously powerful in the comics and if you put that on screen - the ability to change inorganic materials at will permanently - you end up with ridiculous results if carried to any logical extreme.  Of course, having him just be a flying guy that shoots fire doesn't really make him Firestorm... or worthy of all this military attention.  We've seen a few metas on the show that would have much greater military applications - such as the Flash.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on February 18, 2015, 10:47:51 AM
I am a bit disappointed and relieved that they did not (yet?) give Firestorm his full set of powers.  He is ridiculously powerful in the comics and if you put that on screen - the ability to change inorganic materials at will permanently - you end up with ridiculous results if carried to any logical extreme.  Of course, having him just be a flying guy that shoots fire doesn't really make him Firestorm... or worthy of all this military attention.  We've seen a few metas on the show that would have much greater military applications - such as the Flash.

Any single being capable of creating a nuclear blast is worthy of the attention of every military on the planet.   That said, no comic character ever gets their full suite of powers in the first issue and it's silly to assume or expect that.   Even the flash is still very much "in training" on the tv show.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on February 19, 2015, 03:53:14 PM
Any single being capable of creating a nuclear blast is worthy of the attention of every military on the planet. 

This. Hell, the General even says he wants armies full of guys that shoot fire from their hands. What military wouldn't want that - soldiers that don't need ammo or an expensive firearm?


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Tannhauser on February 19, 2015, 04:00:46 PM
This show is overtaking Arrow for me.



Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on February 19, 2015, 04:55:17 PM
Yeah, OK.  Anything that can generate a fallout free nuclear blast is going to be a major focus.  Good point.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on February 19, 2015, 06:55:13 PM
I am guessing that you might not have seen the last of General Eiling...


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on February 19, 2015, 07:05:00 PM
I am guessing that you might not have seen the last of General Eiling...


Or Grodd had a healthy lunch.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on February 19, 2015, 09:22:28 PM
Maybe we'll eventually see Eiling as the Shaggy Man, but I doubt it.

This show just keeps ramping up the awesome.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: taolurker on March 17, 2015, 06:52:44 PM
HOLY SHIT.

MUST SEE TV


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on March 17, 2015, 07:16:35 PM
It was comic book awesome but with the "it was all a dream" comic book bullshit as well. I don't know how I feel about that.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on March 17, 2015, 08:47:17 PM
I dunno, they pretty much dropped the bomb in this one, even if they undo some of it.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: NowhereMan on March 18, 2015, 06:25:44 AM
I'm curious how much of it might get undone, would be a good way to  without actually having to do anything show altering


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on March 18, 2015, 08:08:17 AM
They've exceeded my expectations on so much in this show, but this is the nut I have been worried about. Once you introduce time travel as something that can be willingly utilized...you have troubles not making it an obvious choice for so many problems... and I find the nebulous "you can'T change history because it could be worse" logic to be a really disappointing fix. I hope they can pull another rabbit out of the hat and make time travel work for this show...


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on March 18, 2015, 10:47:34 AM
HOLY SHIT.

MUST SEE TV

Motherfucking this.

EDIT: Also, about the "we can use time travel to change shit" thing - I don't think it's going to be a problem. Barry wasn't trying to go back in time, and I'm sure they can come up with an explanation for why he can't/doesn't all the time. Probably something to do with getting stranded like Reverse Flash. Also it allows them to


Which is something I really hope they do change because I did not want that to happen.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Tebonas on March 18, 2015, 12:16:23 PM
Holy shit, even if they undo everything, they can't undo what we now know, plus even if not lasting,


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on March 18, 2015, 02:55:13 PM
I would have wanted


at the beginning of the show. But he's kind of grown on me, and the way the actor played that scene was brilliant.



Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: NowhereMan on March 19, 2015, 08:50:03 PM
That scene was awesome and the dialogue for it was just perfect too.

Also on time travel, my guess is they'll introduce it as something that can't really be controlled and so is simply too unpredictable to use for any situation that isn't absolute, last chance, Hail Mary move. I'm fine with Barry not wanting to accidentally end up trapped 100 years in the past. Also


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on March 19, 2015, 09:45:07 PM
Well in a recent commercial you hear "wells" say "the past has a way of righting itself" which likely means if it doesn't happen one way, it'll happen another.  Which I'm not sure I like in the whole "timeline fixes itself" way but it does solve a lot of problems with time travel.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Tannhauser on March 20, 2015, 04:30:12 PM
That was a very good episode.  Hey, who knew that kid who plays Cisco can act?  Such a great scene.  I'm still annoyed at Flash's power creep.  If he can out run a lightning bolt, in both speed and reflexes, then any non-speedster should be a trivial  foe.

Nerd gripe aside, great episode well written and acted. 


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on March 20, 2015, 07:17:11 PM
That was a very good episode.  Hey, who knew that kid who plays Cisco can act?  Such a great scene.  I'm still annoyed at Flash's power creep.  If he can out run a lightning bolt, in both speed and reflexes, then any non-speedster should be a trivial  foe.

Nerd gripe aside, great episode well written and acted. 

Well he IS the flash but for right now I give a lot of leeway to things like that depending on how they are presented.  In the lightning bolt case he was literally saving the life of his father figure, pulling your full power out for a situation like that is fine.  Barry can be very uneven right now and it'll make sense because he's still new, he CAN tap into it but not on any sort of regular basis.  If it's still uneven a few seasons from now I'd have a lot harder time with it but right now I'm fine with occasional bursts of greatness in between derps.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on March 20, 2015, 11:25:10 PM
As has probably been said before, if you can move at super-speed, there really shouldn't be anything that gives you much trouble. Just take it as "comic book physics" which means "character can only do what gives the story some amount of conflict" and leave it at that. This can be stretched to utter stupidity however - "continuity wall-punching" being a great example.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: satael on March 20, 2015, 11:58:02 PM
As has probably been said before, if you can move at super-speed, there really shouldn't be anything that gives you much trouble. Just take it as "comic book physics" which means "character can only do what gives the story some amount of conflict" and leave it at that. This can be stretched to utter stupidity however - "continuity wall-punching" being a great example.

I think that the fact that Flash can think in super-speed (like read a 100+ page document in a second and actually understand what he read...more or less) makes him even more overpowered than just moving at great speed though that isn't really covered by the show so far.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Ironwood on March 21, 2015, 02:58:36 AM
See, this is what bothers me about Quicksilver and Flash and the like.

You're just running, right ?  You're moving the same speed you normally would, it's just super to the perspective of everyone else.  Isn't it boring ?

I mean, imagine walking New York City (or even running it).  The whole city.  Now imagine that you can do it in a second and half from the point of view of everyone else.

To YOU, you're taking a journey that would take days, right ?  I mean, to have the reactions to deal with it, it has to be in some sense slower for YOU, so it must be boring ?

No ?


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Tannhauser on March 21, 2015, 04:49:30 AM
I guess I'm thinking of Northstar.  He's a Marvel hero that's super fast BUT he only has normal human reactions.  Which means he can't dodge a bullet but he might be able to outrun one already fired.  At least this is the old John Byrne version.



Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on March 21, 2015, 05:27:38 AM
If someone was willing to deal with some of the implied powers in creative ways, you could get some great scenes/ideas. That was done with the Wally West Flash, for example, when he took over for Barry after Crisis on Infinite Earths. First they depowered him some--for a long while he could only run at the speed of sound or so--but they also made it so that he had to eat huge amounts (like a runner does) in order to be able to run. That added some interesting limits and it also made for some funny scenes. Over time, they dropped that.

One complication that I could see being interesting in plotting terms would be if thinking fast for Barry was mostly something he did with his unconscious or autonomic systems, not his conscious or rational mind. In general when we walk or run, we don't have to think about the actual specific biomechanics of moving, and our sight is doing a lot of unconscious work that directs how we move our bodies--only occasionally do you think, "I need to go over there, not there". Even in something like a fight, most of what's going on is not conscious--you may be thinking consciously that you want to hit the guy's face, but your body is doing a lot of subconscious calculations, reactions, etc. 

So maybe you could set a super-speedster up so that he can't really process consciously what he's seeing/doing as superspeed nearly so fast. So maybe in a millisecond he runs twenty city blocks, but it's about ten seconds before he realizes that he saw someone being mugged halfway through that run. Maybe he can read a book in a nanosecond but it's three or four minutes before his mind really understands most of what he read. Etc. You could do some interesting things in terms of storytelling and choreographing action if you established this as an idea. It might also be a way to explain why it's actually sort of hard for him to do something like "grab the cold gun from Captain Cold".


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Tannhauser on March 21, 2015, 07:01:47 AM
Yeah, that's a pretty good point I haven't considered.  The lightning bolt triggered the fight or flight mode.  OK I can buy that.  I take this shit way too seriously I guess.

Moving on


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: NowhereMan on March 21, 2015, 07:52:57 PM
On that:


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Fordel on March 22, 2015, 01:31:43 AM
See, this is what bothers me about Quicksilver and Flash and the like.

You're just running, right ?  You're moving the same speed you normally would, it's just super to the perspective of everyone else.  Isn't it boring ?

I mean, imagine walking New York City (or even running it).  The whole city.  Now imagine that you can do it in a second and half from the point of view of everyone else.

To YOU, you're taking a journey that would take days, right ?  I mean, to have the reactions to deal with it, it has to be in some sense slower for YOU, so it must be boring ?

No ?



That's actually something they touch upon in the Young Avengers comic with their speedster. Where he was complaining about a load of work he was doing, saying that while to everyone else it looks like he just did a weeks worth of labor in a few seconds, to him it was still a fucking weeks worth of labor so everyone can kindly fuck off with having him do everything that way.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Ironwood on March 25, 2015, 03:25:06 AM
That was an interesting episode but it had two real WTF moments.



Also, bonus points for extremely clingy dress that Iris was wearing.  Holy Fuck.  Also, those boots did NOT look comfy curled up under her on the sofa.  Holy Fuck.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on March 25, 2015, 08:52:23 AM
I thought it was an adequate "reset" but left a lot of room for the inevitable status quo shake up that will be going on in the season finale. I actually really liked the explanation they gave for the resolution with Capt. Cold.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Ironwood on March 25, 2015, 10:22:23 AM
Mate, you're getting ahead of me.  I ain't there yet, as yer wife says.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on March 25, 2015, 11:40:26 AM
The thing with Captain Cold was genuinely smart (snart?)--it sets up the "semi-friendly" relationship the Flash has with his Rogues in the comics, which has always been one of the more interesting things about the character--his enemies are obsessed with beating him and pulling off heists, but they're not like Batman's enemies, they have rules that they follow and there's some things they won't do.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: taolurker on March 25, 2015, 04:38:58 PM
Ahem.. spoilers peoples. In the UK they are exactly one week behind what we see.

So Ironwood just saw the  <from 1 week ago.



Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: kaid on March 26, 2015, 08:25:50 AM
The thing with Captain Cold was genuinely smart (snart?)--it sets up the "semi-friendly" relationship the Flash has with his Rogues in the comics, which has always been one of the more interesting things about the character--his enemies are obsessed with beating him and pulling off heists, but they're not like Batman's enemies, they have rules that they follow and there's some things they won't do.

It does make for an interesting dynamic. Basically they know if they ever pushed barry over the line there is really nothing they could do to stop him and nowhere they could go or hide for long so they work the game within the set rules knowing that if they ever pushed past the line its game over and ends with them almost instantly being locked in a hole for the rest of their lives.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on March 26, 2015, 08:54:52 AM
It's also generally consistent with the way that TV and movies since the Burton "Batman" films have largely dispensed with the idea that the secret identity should be a major, ongoing plot driver in stories about superheroes. Both Burton movies let the love interest and enemy in on the identity by the end of the film (and incidentally also kill the main antagonist, thus dealing with the problem of how this would complicate the hero's life going forward).

Arrow has just pretty much dispensed with the identity thing, both by revealing it to almost character and by taking Oliver out of the limelight anyway.

Flash is in the process of dispensing with it.

Man of Steel let Lois Lane in on the secret ID from the beginning--she actually helps Clark get his job at the Planet.

The Nolanverse Batman movies were somewhat interested in the ID as a plot device but not too much.

Marvel Cinematic Universe is 100% uninterested in the secret ID as a plot device.

etc.

I think that's a sign of maturation in the genre--there was something unbearably adolescent about the idea that you could relate to a person day-in and day-out and not know that they had a big, weird secret. It played to the feeling that every teenager has that NOBODY UNDERSTANDS ME I HAVE A LIFE YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT etc. etc.    With grownups, when they have secret lives, those are just about 90% of the time nasty secrets, and when people find out about those secrets, it tends to break their relationships for good. Those are usually stories of pain and betrayal and suffering. So it's kind of hard to take stories that center on "If only she knew that I was secretly Stupendous Man! But I can't tell her, because my enemies will find out" and "Uh, I had to go to the bathroom because my stomach was upset, like so upset that I was in the bathroom for the last 45 minutes while Stupendous Man battled Doctor Evil. Glad you're all ok!"--they soft-pedal how painful that kind of life is if you can really keep it up, and they require regular functioning adults that we're supposed to see as real people to be abysmally stupid and/or trusting.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on March 26, 2015, 09:04:41 AM
Sorry, Ironwood... didn't realize you guys were a week behind us. When you said reset, I thought you'd seen the results of that reset. I also didn't give too much away, though.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Ironwood on March 26, 2015, 09:12:18 AM
I wouldn't worry about it.  The scripts on this show are not radical departures from every form of literature.

 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on March 26, 2015, 09:13:10 AM
Oh yes, you can pretty much see most of the resolutions coming a mile away - though not necessarily the Capt. Cold one.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Ironwood on March 26, 2015, 09:48:37 AM
You just can't help yourself, eh ?

 :grin:


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on March 26, 2015, 09:49:55 AM
Did you think there wouldn't be a resolution?


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Ironwood on March 31, 2015, 02:30:52 PM
Caught up now.  That was all kinds of lame.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on March 31, 2015, 02:40:55 PM
Any particular part?


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on March 31, 2015, 03:41:02 PM
Before applauding the MCU for ignoring the secret identity concept - it is going to be a big part of Daredevil and Spider-man.  It was pretty much ignored at the beginning because the characters they selected to go with pretty much had no secret identities in the comics.  The only one that sometimes did threw it out on a whim from the director at the end of the first movie.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on March 31, 2015, 03:50:13 PM
But it's not just the MCU. Again, since Burton's Batman, almost no cinematic or televisual adaptations of comic-books are as invested as the comic-books are. Which has had a recursive effect on the comics, too--even the most secretive characters (Batman, Spider-Man) now have vastly expanded supporting casts who are in on the secret, and a sizeable number of enemies who are too.

Daredevil is an interesting case since he is completely unsecret in the comics now, but also there's a special kind of fun in his secret ID--nobody believes the blind guy is a superhero even if there's evidence that he is.

Spider-Man maybe has the longest history of secret ID-related plots of any superhero, so it's not a big surprise if they go there. But notice that even the Raimi Spider-Man let his enemies in on the ID in the last act, let Mary Jane in on it quickly, and implied very heavily that Aunt May knows it too. It's really kind of necessary if we're to believe that a superhero's closest friends and loved ones aren't complete idiots or painfully child-like.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Ironwood on March 31, 2015, 04:21:55 PM
Any particular part?

The Reboot just plain took an exciting day and turned it into a big ole pile of meh.  Captain Cold was ridiculous.  The Gun thing was ridiculous.  The sister outta nowhere was ridiculous.  The Jealousy Brother outta nowhere was ridiculous.  Flash thinking he had a shot with Ms Boots was ridiculous.  Cisco believing that any woman would come up to him like that and NOT be an evil person interested in The Flash was ridiculous.  The Explanation that Barry suffers from Lightning trauma was ridiculous and them swallowing it was equally ridiculous.

The only bit that I actually liked was the inverse of the basement scene with Cisco and the fact that Cold and Flash didn't really give a shit about Barry Allen.

But to build it up like that only to fart in our faces was all kinds of stupid.



Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on March 31, 2015, 07:00:46 PM
The newest was a good episode on several levels. Mark Hamill was  :awesome_for_real:.

But if you can slow down your TV for the "This Season on Flash" trailer-thing at the end, do so. There is a lot of crazy shit embedded in it.



Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: cironian on April 01, 2015, 02:39:06 AM
Mark Hamill was  :awesome_for_real:.

Don't you mean :why_so_serious:?


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Tannhauser on April 01, 2015, 03:29:23 AM
I really enjoyed the Trickster episode.  Good story and nice little easter eggs thrown around.  I finally figured out why I don't like Grant Gustiin; it's his speech.  He sounds like he's always talking with his mouth full.  But, yeah, this show is DC superheroics done right.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on April 01, 2015, 06:54:12 AM
Hamill gets a couple of zinger lines in this one. Basically does his Joker voice with a small touch of Hannibal Lecter on the side.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on April 01, 2015, 07:02:59 AM
His suit at the fundraiser was the biggest joker nod.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: CmdrSlack on April 01, 2015, 07:32:49 AM
Hamill gets a couple of zinger lines in this one. Basically does his Joker voice with a small touch of Hannibal Lecter on the side.

My favorite zinger line so far was the "I am your father" bit.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on April 01, 2015, 12:57:04 PM
I want to see a changed time line episode as a one off that takes place in the 1980s Flash series world. I loved seeing them use images from that series last night.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on April 01, 2015, 02:59:17 PM
When Trickster kidnaps Henry Allen, I was SURE they were going to reveal that he had been Flash in the '90's series but no one ever knew it.

The episodes leading up to the finale are going to be fucking awesome.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on April 01, 2015, 04:02:29 PM
When Trickster kidnaps Henry Allen, I was SURE they were going to reveal that he had been Flash in the '90's series but no one ever knew it.
For once, we were on the exact same page.  That would have been an awesome way to go - and with Hamill and the original series' Flash's love interest both guesting, I thought we had a chance...


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on April 14, 2015, 07:58:35 PM
That might have been the weakest "the Flash could totally solve this whole thing quickly but he doesn't" so far.



Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Tannhauser on April 14, 2015, 08:10:46 PM
They really make Iris an un-likable character don't they?  She's channeling Laurel these days.  Good episode, a bit surprised they didn't spend more time on Bee girl, but they had too many guest stars I suppose.  Lastly, Barry's power isn't the Speed Force, it's the ability to move as fast or as slow as the plot requires.

For reals lastly; just give Ray and Felicity their own show. And if there's a gratuitous shower scene here and there I promise not to get upset.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on April 14, 2015, 08:36:02 PM
Ray is apparently the centerpiece of the new show they're shooting now, actually. No word on whether Felicity is in it, but considering that she's confessed her continuing lust for Oliver, I am thinking not.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on April 14, 2015, 10:29:48 PM
Laurel at least has been getting better, but after this episode Iris is just insufferable.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on April 15, 2015, 04:39:01 AM
Yeah, she's really awful. Plus this episode they chose to remind us that there's almost something incestuous about Barry having the hots for her.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: MediumHigh on April 15, 2015, 05:40:04 AM
Good god she tanked the episode. What a grade A double A bitch. 


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: kaid on April 15, 2015, 08:20:48 AM
They really make Iris an un-likable character don't they?  She's channeling Laurel these days.  Good episode, a bit surprised they didn't spend more time on Bee girl, but they had too many guest stars I suppose.  Lastly, Barry's power isn't the Speed Force, it's the ability to move as fast or as slow as the plot requires.

For reals lastly; just give Ray and Felicity their own show. And if there's a gratuitous shower scene here and there I promise not to get upset.

Honestly to some extent iris has every right to be unlikeable more so than laurel. Right now pretty much everybody even the darn bad guys know who the flash is except iris. When you are getting the sensation that everybody in your life is lying to you because they are in fact lying to you that would get old really damn fast.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on April 15, 2015, 03:09:52 PM
You know, I was doing a bit more geeky thinking about the Reverse-Flash, since it's pretty clear we're about to tilt into that storyline big-time in the run-up to the season ender.

There are a few things that really don't (yet) add up that could make for some interesting twists to come.

Here's what we know so far:

He's Eobard Thawne, from the future. We don't know yet quite what future, only that it is at least 20 years ahead of when the show takes place.

He came to the past originally to kill Barry Allen as a boy, not to kill Barry Allen's mother.

He got stuck in the past because for some reason he lost access to the Speed Force after his fight with someone (presently presumed to be Barry Allen's Flash) who also had super-speed powers.

He knew that Harrison Wells would make his experimental gizmo in the future and presumably would power up people at that point--whether on purpose as part of its design, or because the accident that occurred in the current timeline was destined to occur in any version of Wells' gizmo.

He stole Wells' identity and killed him after also engineering the death of Wells' wife.

He feels genuine affection for Cisco, but is also a stone-cold killer who has murdered multiple enemies.

He's protecting and training Barry Allen, seemingly so Barry can reach some sort of power threshold that will allow Thawne to return to the future.

He's already regained a significant amount of his power, seemingly, but the doo-hickey he stole from Mercury seems important to that.

AND

He's very, very anxious about a headline from a future news source that describes the Flash as saving the world from a crisis.

---------

But here's what we don't know:

a) Before Thawne came to the past, the real Harrison Wells made his superpower-causing device in the future. Was there a Flash created by that device at that time? If so, was it an older Barry Allen? Or was the Flash created in the future Thawne himself? If so, was he always a bad guy?

b) What's with that "saving the world in the future" headline anyway, then? Is that the Flash who used to exist in the original timeline? If so, why has that story only changed once, when it seemed like *this* timeline's Barry Allen might survive? In fact, that almost makes the idea that Thawne is the one who saves the world in the future seem more plausible--if current Barry dies, then so dies Thawne's hope of getting back to the future when he was supposed to be there. If it's current Barry who saves the world, then how could that have been true before Thawne changed the timeline? If it's older Barry-Flash, then wouldn't killing Barry as a child end up destroying the world? But then if that's true, why is Thawne so anxious about that headline? Does he want the world destroyed? If so, why not just kill Barry now?

c) If both Thawne and Barry Allen use the Speed Force, does someone else already use it who is alive in the current timeline? It's implied that the Speed Force exists whether or not Harrison Wells' doo-hickey has created some metahumans...


This is the problem with building a big mystery around time-travel--it's almost impossible to sort out all the possible plot twists in a satisfying way. But they've done a pretty cool job with the Reverse-Flash so far, so here's hoping.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on April 15, 2015, 11:43:49 PM
It's entirely possible (though highly doubtful) that the Eobard Thawne we are seeing as Harrison Wells is in fact NOT the true Reverse Flash, but Abra Kadabra, a 64th century scientist whose science looks like magic (and thus his whole magician gimmick). I say that because it seems his speed could be scientifically-produced as opposed to being linked to the Speed Force. Of course, I'd be AMAZED if TV did a goofy-ass all-the-way-full-retard-comic-style character like that because the explanations alone would be episode long.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: CmdrSlack on April 16, 2015, 07:17:34 PM
It's entirely possible (though highly doubtful) that the Eobard Thawne we are seeing as Harrison Wells is in fact NOT the true Reverse Flash, but Abra Kadabra, a 64th century scientist whose science looks like magic (and thus his whole magician gimmick). I say that because it seems his speed could be scientifically-produced as opposed to being linked to the Speed Force. Of course, I'd be AMAZED if TV did a goofy-ass all-the-way-full-retard-comic-style character like that because the explanations alone would be episode long.

But Wells/Thawne describes the feeling of using the speed force.

Now I need to figure out which TPBs give me the best Flash comics from the past.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on April 16, 2015, 07:26:42 PM
Now I need to figure out which TPBs give me the best Flash comics from the past.

I'd go with Flash: Rebirth as being the most important one. 


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: CmdrSlack on April 16, 2015, 07:30:20 PM
Thanks. Looks like Saturday is Record Shop Day and find that run at the LCS day.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on April 16, 2015, 08:04:40 PM
But Wells/Thawne describes the feeling of using the speed force.

He could still have gotten access to the Speed Force with scientific means from the 64th century, he just needs a replenishment.

It's probably not Abra Kadabra though.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Pennilenko on April 17, 2015, 07:43:50 AM
There has been a couple times where Wells has told people their death does not matter because they have been dead for centuries to him.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on April 17, 2015, 09:34:55 AM
Ah! I missed that. Tells us something, at least--that if there was a Flash in the original timeline who appeared shortly after the real Wells fired off his invention, it's not Thawne.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Riggswolfe on April 17, 2015, 12:19:30 PM
Am I the only sap that hopes we'll discover Well's "soul" or whatever was absorbed as well as his looks and memories and that he'll come back somehow?


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on April 17, 2015, 01:28:03 PM
I almost think they have to do that because Cavanaugh has been sort of the "Felicity" of the show so far--the actor who manages to really keep everyone's attention. Plus, rather interestingly, they didn't cast a complete disposable no-name actor to play Eobard Thawne in the reveal episode, so maybe they have plans to have him revert to his "real" body at some point.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Mazakiel on April 17, 2015, 08:59:40 PM
I think Cavanaugh has stated that he only agreed to do the show once he knew what the big reveal would be, so I'm not sure he'd stick around if/when Thawne is put back into his own body and Wells is restored to normal.  If things get reset a bit, I do hope he would stick around, though, because I've really enjoyed him in the show. 


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on April 17, 2015, 09:03:28 PM
Well, Cavanaugh is confirmed for season 2.  Who he is gonna be is another question.  I doubt they are gonna give another full season to the Reverse Flash though.  I thought they were kind of setting up Grodd for next season.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on April 18, 2015, 02:02:50 PM
They have time travel as a tool.  They have a lot of options for including Cavanaugh.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: cironian on April 22, 2015, 11:42:15 AM
Huh, didn't expect them to make it quite that clear for the good guys. Next episodes should be very interesting.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on April 22, 2015, 04:15:07 PM
One thing I like about the flash is that it doesn't fuck around with common tropes.  Just look at his normal, healthy  relationship with both his dads? They don't seem to do drama for the sake of it unlike ahem, other cw hero shows....


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Ironwood on April 23, 2015, 02:17:17 AM
Bee Girl was Walking Dead Girl.

And it annoyed me how many minutes it took me to figure it out.  Maybe Superman Glasses ARE a good disguise.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: NowhereMan on April 23, 2015, 07:04:13 AM
But here's what we don't know:

a) Before Thawne came to the past, the real Harrison Wells made his superpower-causing device in the future. Was there a Flash created by that device at that time? If so, was it an older Barry Allen? Or was the Flash created in the future Thawne himself? If so, was he always a bad guy?

b) What's with that "saving the world in the future" headline anyway, then? Is that the Flash who used to exist in the original timeline? If so, why has that story only changed once, when it seemed like *this* timeline's Barry Allen might survive? In fact, that almost makes the idea that Thawne is the one who saves the world in the future seem more plausible--if current Barry dies, then so dies Thawne's hope of getting back to the future when he was supposed to be there. If it's current Barry who saves the world, then how could that have been true before Thawne changed the timeline? If it's older Barry-Flash, then wouldn't killing Barry as a child end up destroying the world? But then if that's true, why is Thawne so anxious about that headline? Does he want the world destroyed? If so, why not just kill Barry now?

c) If both Thawne and Barry Allen use the Speed Force, does someone else already use it who is alive in the current timeline? It's implied that the Speed Force exists whether or not Harrison Wells' doo-hickey has created some metahumans...

Let me give some guesses/thoughts somewhat informed by comic knowledge (which may or may not count for anything as writers are perfectly happy to rip off elements of stories while making significant alterations.

a) Thawne was definitely battling the Flash, Gideon AI reports it as his latest battle which exhausted his speed force. What's not totally clear is where Thawne gets his speed from. My guess would be harnessing some bleed off from the Flash's use of the Speed Force, so he required Barry getting powered up to be a speedster himself. Possibly he needs Barry able to use enough to time travel in order to piggback off it himself to time travel. I'd guess he was always the bad guy and he was trying to kill his Flash's ancestor or similar to stop him ever existing. At least that would be time travelling super-villain 101 because paradoxes are for pussies.

b) The headline seems to be referencing the Crisis on Infinite Earths DC event that had the Flash disappear into the Speed Force to resolve the whole crisis, sacrificing himself. It could also be that Flash saved the world in our future and was catapulted himself into the future with Thawne, it's doubly important that Flash save the world and get sent forward to give Thawne the opportunity to use his Speed Force. At least that's my guess.

c) I'd guess the Speed Force exists independently of any individual but requires some sort of meta to actually use it for anything. If Wells can only harness excess use from the Flash it would explain why he needed to power him up and train him to be faster. Of course it doesn't really explain why facing the Flash wouldn't also be powering him up rather than draining his batteries so maybe Wells just taps into the SF directly? Bu then why give  a fuck about the Flash?


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on April 23, 2015, 07:15:46 AM
Yes. I'm almost wondering if Barry was always a kind of 'battery' or source for Thawne--like maybe in the "crisis" of 2024, Barry saved the world and disappeared into Eobard Thawne's future, where he powered up Thawne almost by accident. But maybe then Thawne hates having to share the power with Barry, so sets out to kill him, paradox be damned? And maybe now he accepts that he needs Barry to be powered, that they're sort of "conjoined twins"? I dunno. It's got me interested. They're certainly making the relationship a shit-ton more interesting than it ever was in the comics, even after Mark Waid started layering it more and more.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on April 23, 2015, 08:31:40 AM
I think the link between the Thawne's is a substantial part of the puzzle...


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on April 23, 2015, 08:39:47 AM
The show runners have mentioned that the speed force reverse flash uses is not really siphoned off Barry, that it's more of a dark side/light side thing.  The way best described is two connected gears and the faster one spins so does the other.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Venkman on April 24, 2015, 07:29:35 PM
Am I the only sap that hopes we'll discover Well's "soul" or whatever was absorbed as well as his looks and memories and that he'll come back somehow?
You are not the only one :-) I like him as a character and actor.

My guess is there's an inverse relationship between speed force and which personality is dominant (i.e.,  > speed = thawne, < speed = Wells). This doesn't seem like Arrow where they set up a conspiracy for an entire season and then the hero finds out in the end. But just a guess. I don't go deep into the comic book stuff. This kind of show doesn't go that deep except for bit parts for fan service.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on April 24, 2015, 08:08:52 PM
Bee Girl was Walking Dead Girl.

And it annoyed me how many minutes it took me to figure it out.  Maybe Superman Glasses ARE a good disguise.


Dude, I didn't recognize her at all until you said that and I looked it up. Superman glasses, indeed.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Tannhauser on April 25, 2015, 05:23:24 AM
I only knew her because I recognized her name in the opening credits.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: NowhereMan on April 25, 2015, 06:07:35 AM
Am I the only sap that hopes we'll discover Well's "soul" or whatever was absorbed as well as his looks and memories and that he'll come back somehow?
You are not the only one :-) I like him as a character and actor.

My guess is there's an inverse relationship between speed force and which personality is dominant (i.e.,  > speed = thawne, < speed = Wells). This doesn't seem like Arrow where they set up a conspiracy for an entire season and then the hero finds out in the end. But just a guess. I don't go deep into the comic book stuff. This kind of show doesn't go that deep except for bit parts for fan service.

Honestly I think there's a chance that Well's memories are somehow stored on some future doohickey or time-wimey stuff brings him back but from how he's acted I don't think there's a 'Wells' personality in there. The man's dead and Thawne used his future tech to steal his body via DNA copying or something. Nothing they've shown suggests anything other than Thawne being either a self-centred person who's talked themselves into total sociopathy because 'everyone's been dead for centuries' or being an actual sociopath who's been forced to act along with others so much he's either having real feelings awakened or he's realising that there are other, effective ways of interacting with people other than being an evil moustache twirling villain.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on April 25, 2015, 11:00:25 AM
Bee Girl was Walking Dead Girl.

And it annoyed me how many minutes it took me to figure it out.  Maybe Superman Glasses ARE a good disguise.


Dude, I didn't recognize her at all until you said that and I looked it up. Superman glasses, indeed.
It wasn't just the glasses ... she was hardly on screen in the episode.  I don't know if she had a full minute of screen time during the entire episode, and each shot on her was very short it seemed.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on April 25, 2015, 08:54:44 PM
The thing is that Thawne in the comics was always undermotivated in almost the same way that Kang the Conqueror over at Marvel was. "Oh, I'm bored in my future time where things are basically good, I read about criminals and conquerors and that sounds great, I think I need a time machine". Over time they worked to give Thawne more personal motivation: he had the hots for Iris, no wait his whole family had a centuries-long feud with the Allen family, etc.  Eventually Waid just decided to reboot the whole thing by making a new "Reverse-Flash" with a very different motivation (basically hating Wally West for not using his powers to help in that ridiculous super villainy sense of "help" + a desire to make the Flash better by giving him better motivation (e.g., killing people who matter to him). Even that didn't last.

They're going to need to give this Reverse-Flash a real reason for doing what he does beyond "he is the bad guy".


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Tannhauser on April 29, 2015, 03:58:52 AM
Good episode last night. 


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on April 29, 2015, 08:48:35 AM
They really are knocking this thing out of the park. I didn't have any problem with the dream machine - it was TV/comic-booky scienc-y stuff that I can easily hand wave away to move the plot along.



Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on April 29, 2015, 09:33:23 AM
The glasses on the dream machine - did you notice the look of the glasses?


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on April 29, 2015, 09:35:19 AM
I did - very Carmine Infantino. I can't recall exactly which character they remind me of but they definitely rang a bell.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on April 29, 2015, 11:15:46 AM
What I should have thought of before but was eerily disturbing...



Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on April 29, 2015, 12:08:20 PM
I did - very Carmine Infantino. I can't recall exactly which character they remind me of but they definitely rang a bell.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Ironwood on April 29, 2015, 12:27:34 PM
I'd rather just check out Danielle Panabaker, to be honest.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on April 29, 2015, 04:03:02 PM


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on April 29, 2015, 05:13:47 PM



Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on April 29, 2015, 06:19:00 PM



Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on April 29, 2015, 06:30:36 PM
Look, whatever else, Tom fucking Cavanaugh is absolutely knocking this shit out of the park. This would be an ok show without him, but man he is making it into something more. If you'd asked me five years ago, "Could the Reverse-Flash appear as a regular character in a relatively cheap adaptation of the Flash and be anything but fucking stupid" I would have said, no, that could not happen, it would be stupid. And yet Cavanaugh has made the character into an instant-Top Ten comic-book enemies ever.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Ironwood on April 30, 2015, 03:29:33 AM
That Mystique Dude episode was fucking  :uhrr:

Really, really retarded.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Threash on April 30, 2015, 06:53:04 AM
Starting to feel seriously shitty about all the crap they put Eddie through, dude has been nothing but a perfect boyfriend, cop and friend and he's pretty much guaranteed to get fucked over in the end.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on April 30, 2015, 08:11:15 AM
Well, considering that the obvious answer to ending the Reverse Flash threat is a supersonic nut punch that leaves him barren...


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: MediumHigh on May 06, 2015, 06:38:11 AM
Someone shoot Iris. Please oh god please.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on May 07, 2015, 12:04:45 PM
You know, I was getting a bit annoyed by her whining in this episode but really... she does actually have a point. If everybody in my life was lying to me about all this shit, for whatever the good reasons they had, I'd get a little pissed too.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on May 07, 2015, 01:38:12 PM
I'm really curious about how the finales of Arrow and Flash interplay - from the promos it seems like Arrow's takes place before Flash in their universe, but after in ours.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on May 07, 2015, 06:37:37 PM
It's cuz the episodes are out of sync.  Flash is supposed to happen before arrow, but right now it's the other way around.  At least that's what i remember from an article a month or so ago.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on May 12, 2015, 08:24:30 PM
Ok so this Flash episode does take place before tomorrow's Arrow.

Also another good episode here. 


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 12, 2015, 08:54:13 PM
So, Oliver ziplined all the way from namda parbat?


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on May 14, 2015, 12:45:44 PM
With as much as people have been zipping back and forth between Starling and Namda Parbat in the last 2 episodes, they might as well be the same place.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on May 14, 2015, 12:57:48 PM
Seriously, they just need to say, "Nanda Parbat is actually the name of the Chinese restaurant about ten miles outside of Starling, the League of Assassins HQ is just beyond that a little ways."


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on May 18, 2015, 07:03:22 PM
So they kinda confirmed the movie Flash is going to be Barry Allen.  I swear if they fuck with this show as much as they have Arrow, there will be blood.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Tannhauser on May 18, 2015, 07:28:34 PM
Seriously, they just need to say, "Nanda Parbat is actually the name of the Chinese restaurant about ten miles outside of Starling, the League of Assassins HQ is just beyond that a little ways."

I was thinking Starling City was LA and Nanda Parbat was located on Catalina Island.  :awesome_for_real:

As for zip lining, Arrow can actually fly, but he has to activate his power by shooting a zip line up into the sky.  Seriously, he sometimes just shoots it up into the sky and takes off.  LIKE A BOSS.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on May 18, 2015, 07:36:18 PM

As for zip lining, Arrow can actually fly, but he has to activate his power by shooting a zip line up into the sky.  Seriously, he sometimes just shoots it up into the sky and takes off.  LIKE A BOSS.

He learned it from Spidey!


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Riggswolfe on May 19, 2015, 07:01:46 AM
So they kinda confirmed the movie Flash is going to be Barry Allen.  I swear if they fuck with this show as much as they have Arrow, there will be blood.

I'll be right there with you ready to cut a fucker. Seriously, the Flash TV show is my favorite Super Hero tv show on the air now, and maybe ever.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 19, 2015, 06:03:33 PM
HOLY FUCK  :ye_gods:


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Tannhauser on May 19, 2015, 06:09:28 PM

(http://l.yimg.com/fz/api/res/1.2/6b2fHkvfUcN6lWz845.n7g--/YXBwaWQ9c3JjaGRkO2g9MjMxO3E9OTU7dz00NTA-/http://newnation.sg/wp-content/uploads/boy-that-escalated-quickly.jpg)


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Threash on May 19, 2015, 06:47:33 PM
Eddie, baller as fuck.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on May 19, 2015, 07:38:50 PM
Telegraphed pretty clearly early on--and actually folks here sort of saw it coming if you read back in the comments. But, well, hm, now what? I did notice that


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Fordel on May 21, 2015, 12:13:22 AM
Why would anyone, ever, in a million billion years, do anything the bad guy suggested.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on May 21, 2015, 05:50:52 AM
Yeah, I think that's the part that doesn't quite hold up. Thawne has been manipulating them right and left and now they just do what he says?


Loved the episode nevertheless.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Threash on May 21, 2015, 06:17:39 AM
The part that really doesn't hold up is Barry risking the entire city/planet/universe for completely selfish reasons. The moment they found out saving mommy might mean the end of the fucking world they should've gone from "do whatever you think is best Barry" to "we are about to put you in the cell next to Thawne you evil fuck". Not to mention stopping him from going home just because fuck him I guess when you know you can't beat him was not just a total dick move, but pretty much a death sentence for everyone.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Tebonas on May 21, 2015, 06:38:32 AM
Yeah, while I loved parts of the episode, Barry was totally out of character. Both risking everybodies life for entirely selfish reasons and breaking the deal with Thawn (presumably just to be a dick) were unlike him as portrayed in the series.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: NowhereMan on May 21, 2015, 07:00:14 AM
The impression I got from the build up was On positive points Wells' acting knocked it out again, dudes' awesome. I really liked the little shout out regarding the Speed Force and the Flash universe just before Thawne left as well.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on May 21, 2015, 10:33:06 AM
I think Barry planned to let Thane go until future Barry told him not to save Mom.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: NowhereMan on May 21, 2015, 10:55:54 AM
From the character interplay I really got the impression it was more that Barry accepted it as something he would need to do in order to save his mother. If I was going to read more into it I guess it would be simply that the 'don't' gesture from futureBarry communcated the whole idea that it's a mistake to go along with Thawne's plans and Barry should stop it. Thawne was obviously depending on Barry saving his mother and being delayed in the fight because he sees what's up straight away (and because time moves constantly across different points which stops Barry coming back to the exact time-wimey wibbly-wobbly).


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 21, 2015, 12:25:22 PM
Also if Barry saved his mom, the timeline should be approximately the same as the future Thawne came from, which is probably what he was hoping for.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on May 21, 2015, 01:03:06 PM
This is what people don't usually get right about the butterfly effect: Any change in the past is going to entirely rewrite the future. Once he left the future, there was no 'his future' for him to return to unless you believe in multiple realities spawning when there is time travel.  It doesn't matter if Momma Grant lives or dies, by the time every little change cascades and causes other changes, there is no way he is even born.  You might see some of the same trends occurring, but given how an imperceptible change in a sex act could drastically change which sperm gets the egg (or whether a sperm gets an egg), people committing these acts would be different people.  You can rewrite these 'rules' in a fantasy setting with concepts like destiny, but the butterfly effect as a concept says that you're dealing with an entirely different world in the future with even the most minor of changes in the past.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Threash on May 21, 2015, 01:42:57 PM
Did anyone bother to ask Wells how him and Barry were enemies when he was from over 100 years in the future? I assume the answer is "lol time travel" but it seems like something they would be curious about.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Riggswolfe on May 21, 2015, 02:13:45 PM
This is what people don't usually get right about the butterfly effect: Any change in the past is going to entirely rewrite the future. Once he left the future, there was no 'his future' for him to return to unless you believe in multiple realities spawning when there is time travel.  It doesn't matter if Momma Grant lives or dies, by the time every little change cascades and causes other changes, there is no way he is even born.  You might see some of the same trends occurring, but given how an imperceptible change in a sex act could drastically change which sperm gets the egg (or whether a sperm gets an egg), people committing these acts would be different people.  You can rewrite these 'rules' in a fantasy setting with concepts like destiny, but the butterfly effect as a concept says that you're dealing with an entirely different world in the future with even the most minor of changes in the past.

I think this series is pretty clearly going with the alternate universes theory otherwise



Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Fordel on May 21, 2015, 04:22:12 PM
No seriously, a million billion years, why, WHY would they do this.

Every single character went from zero to idiot in the span of like half an episode.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Pennilenko on May 21, 2015, 05:12:05 PM
I don't see how people can think Barry went from smart to idiot. He had a chance to save his mother, who was murdered. People he loves and trusts urge him to go back and save her. Seems like he was in a hard situation to me.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Tannhauser on May 21, 2015, 05:39:57 PM
Step 1:  Ask Iris for advice.
Step 2:  Do the opposite.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: NowhereMan on May 21, 2015, 11:43:50 PM
Did anyone bother to ask Wells how him and Barry were enemies when he was from over 100 years in the future? I assume the answer is "lol time travel" but it seems like something they would be curious about.

I'd need to rewatch it but didn't Barry ask Wells/Thawne and he just said something like you don't really care about that or it doesn't matter ? Seems likely futureBarry either failed to save people he loved or he was already in with villains who Barry put away in some permanent fashion (like Phantom Zone permanent rather than dead permanent).


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on May 22, 2015, 09:12:58 AM
You are right, Barry did ask and Wells just glossed it over.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Fordel on May 22, 2015, 01:02:14 PM
I don't see how people can think Barry went from smart to idiot. He had a chance to save his mother, who was murdered. People he loves and trusts urge him to go back and save her. Seems like he was in a hard situation to me.

A Chance given to him by the same psycho that murdered his mother. That has been manipulating his entire life for his own ends and that has been murdering anyone who got in his way. The one that has ZERO regard for any life other then his own, and possibly not even that. The one that neglected to mention the one tiny side effect of the entire 'chance'.


Sure, lets go along with the psycho's plan. It'll be fine! They are all fucking morons, every last one of them. Unforgivably stupid.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: satael on October 07, 2015, 05:22:42 AM
So the show is back with season 2 and it was interesting to see that


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on October 07, 2015, 06:07:50 AM
Hey now, Barry said he was sorry.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on October 07, 2015, 09:06:41 AM
I don't think they TRIED to kill dude, so there's at least that.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on October 07, 2015, 05:13:44 PM
They didn't have any problem with locking people up in a gulag without toilets last season, so...


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Tannhauser on October 07, 2015, 06:02:40 PM
This was a good episode.  Grant Gustin has grown on me, he's not marble-mouthing like he used to (to me). 

As an aside, Hulu is actually working out pretty well for me.  $8 a month and I get access to a lot of broadcast TV the day after it airs.  This cord-cutting may work out.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on October 07, 2015, 06:40:18 PM

As an aside, Hulu is actually working out pretty well for me.  $8 a month and I get access to a lot of broadcast TV the day after it airs.  This cord-cutting may work out.

Yo Ho... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeI03Xn-clc)   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on October 07, 2015, 07:06:00 PM
I have to admit I was watching the very beginning and thinking, "Oh, fuck it, everybody's going to be whining about why didn't the Flash just grab the guns to start with". And then it was, "Oh, good, phew." Though Captain Cold and Heat Wave are coming back in two episodes, so only a reprieve...


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on October 07, 2015, 07:11:53 PM
I have to admit I was watching the very beginning and thinking, "Oh, fuck it, everybody's going to be whining about why didn't the Flash just grab the guns to start with". And then it was, "Oh, good, phew." Though Captain Cold and Heat Wave are coming back in two episodes, so only a reprieve...


Well ya only got 8 episodes to set them up for Legends of Tomorrow.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: satael on October 14, 2015, 05:36:29 AM
Another episode and another kill for the Flash.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on October 14, 2015, 06:20:24 AM
Earth2 villains don't even count as real people.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on October 14, 2015, 08:16:40 AM
I thought that too, though you know... they didn't say he couldn't reform himself. I mean, he's made of sand.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: satael on October 14, 2015, 08:23:24 AM
I thought that too, though you know... they didn't say he couldn't reform himself. I mean, he's made of sand.
If they didn't kill the bad guys (permanently) they'd get to interrogate them about what's going on and that would evidently spoil the plot.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on October 14, 2015, 09:52:18 AM
Why is everyone so quick to judge?


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Pennilenko on October 14, 2015, 10:00:24 AM
Why is everyone so quick to judge?
Because I do not like the speed at which they are altering the morals of the Flash and his team.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on October 14, 2015, 12:09:23 PM
This is a team that seemed quite fine with indefinite, illegal, unconstitutional imprisonment of bad guys so I'm not sure just killing them is any worse.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: satael on October 14, 2015, 12:52:12 PM
This is a team that seemed quite fine with indefinite, illegal, unconstitutional imprisonment of bad guys so I'm not sure just killing them is any worse.

Maybe it's all just a clever take on the modern America; first you had a Quantanamo and then you go for targeted (drone) killings.  All the bad guys are guilty so any courts etc would just be a waste of time and effort. :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Threash on October 14, 2015, 01:30:08 PM
I have to admit I was watching the very beginning and thinking, "Oh, fuck it, everybody's going to be whining about why didn't the Flash just grab the guns to start with". And then it was, "Oh, good, phew." Though Captain Cold and Heat Wave are coming back in two episodes, so only a reprieve...


Lol, instead we got to watch Flash run up to super tough/strong guy at super speed then start punching him at normal speed.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on October 14, 2015, 02:19:09 PM
This is a team that seemed quite fine with indefinite, illegal, unconstitutional imprisonment of bad guys so I'm not sure just killing them is any worse.
Don't be ridiculous... it was merely good old heroic kidnapping and false imprisonment.  They're not the government, after all.

On a more serious note: It'd be interesting to see a criminal imprisoned by the Flash team push for criminal charges for the crimes the Flash team has performed.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on October 14, 2015, 02:36:00 PM
So we have:

a) STAR Labs which is apparently running off of a big old pile of money that Harrison Wells had stored up. Said pile of money not exhausted by civil suits following him blowing up the facility and giving people metahuman powers. Actually, I would think that anyone who has been hurt or has lost property due to a metahuman could file suit against Wells/STAR even now. Um, which, by the way, would now be filing suit against Barry Allen. And also, for extra fun, nobody in Central City seems to think it's newsworthy that the guy who confessed to being the real murderer of Barry Allen's mother also left all his money and property to Barry Allen.
b) Barry sure has an understanding boss (or no boss at all), considering his weird working hours and habits. But then again, that's totally comic books, so I'm ok with that.
c) Not so comic books: killing the shit out of routine bad guys and not even seeming to comment on it or be worried about it. I guess Sand Demon might reform after a while, it's kind of standard for his type of villain. But Atom-Smasher seemed pretty dead last week.
d) Everybody's a little slow on the uptake re: Jay Garrick coming from a parallel Earth, in the sense that they could have quickly started asking him about their dopplegangers, about metahumans there, etc., all of which might be important. (For example, Garrick's only been the Flash for two years, so...where did his metas get their powers? When did he get his power? Why are there evil metas for Zoom to just start dropping off? etc.)


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Riggswolfe on October 15, 2015, 09:00:04 AM
I was excited to see alternate universe Wells and hope they bring him over to Earth-1. I also liked the references to Earth-1, Earth-2, etc.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on October 27, 2015, 07:55:31 PM
Another great episode... and I lol'd at that ending.  I am glad they are willing to put stuff like that on the show.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on October 28, 2015, 09:36:22 AM
They're definitely moving more into images coming off the page.  Some elements are not quite hitting home for me this season (Barry's dad leaving is still a huge wtf), but I still love the show overall.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Ironwood on October 28, 2015, 02:08:03 PM
lol.  Michael Ironside just exploded someones head.  lol


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on October 28, 2015, 06:33:00 PM
(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/1/15659/1899039-king_shark_im_a_shark_secret_six_35.jpg)


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Tannhauser on October 29, 2015, 03:33:39 AM
This was a good episode.  I didn't totally hate Iris for a change.  Do wish the new girl would dial down acting adorable. 


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Ironwood on October 29, 2015, 03:54:20 AM
New girl so resembles Rachel from Suits, it freaks me out.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Ironwood on December 01, 2015, 12:49:51 PM
Where is my Flash fix tonight.  Why is Flash not on ?  Break after Grodd or what ?


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on December 01, 2015, 12:52:31 PM
They took the Thanksgiving week off in America. There's a new one tonight that's part of the crossover with Arrow which leads into Legends of Tomorrow.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Ironwood on December 01, 2015, 12:57:49 PM
Ah, thanks.  I forwarded a week and there it is.  That's a bit baws, but fair enough.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on January 11, 2016, 08:42:21 AM
http://www.blastr.com/2016-1-11/kevin-smith-signs-direct-season-2-episode-flash (http://www.blastr.com/2016-1-11/kevin-smith-signs-direct-season-2-episode-flash)

Looking forward to it.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Furiously on January 11, 2016, 09:08:14 AM
I hope he doesnt piss himself...The flash that is.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Ironwood on January 11, 2016, 09:11:47 AM
Guest Directors are always a big pool of meh.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on January 11, 2016, 06:03:55 PM
Once upon a time I thought he was a bit good. And then he went and was lots of different kinds of really ghastly bad in several different media. I assume they'll keep him on a tight leash.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on February 03, 2016, 11:44:22 AM
3/28 is the date that the Flash will head to National City and meet Supergirl.  This will be followed up later with Supergirl showing up on Flash.



Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on May 03, 2016, 10:50:58 AM
I still like this show a lot but it is getting dangerously dependent on two gimmicks that will eventually mess it up for good:

a) Barry makes the worst possible choice despite lots of his friends and/or Harrison Wells telling him to not do it.
b) Barry gets depowered.


I think they're resorting to these because they recognize that the character is almost unbeatable with his powerset once he stops being a novice who doesn't know how his powers work.

I think they have to put in some thought about what kind of character can really put the Flash to the test who is not another speedster and who isn't just a freak of the week, meaning someone who can sustain a season-long general storyline. Where they don't have to have the tension come from: Barry being unforgiveably stupid and/or being depowered or weakened.

Fundamentally, it's got to be:

1) Basically invulnerable person (immobile object meets irresistable force)
2) Super-genius/master-plotter
3) Mind controller
4) Hidden/invisible master-plotter
5) Legion of Doom-type--an alliance of villains who are dangerous to the Flash when they coordinate their attacks

Though the Flash's Rogues' Gallery has  a lot of fun powers and some good personalities/backstories, ultimately almost all of them are chumps that the Flash can beat unless he's not focused on the situation or working with a handicap. In the Silver Age comics, they only were threats because they had increasingly ridiculous elaborate equipment--Captain Boomerang with boomerang-shaped satellite death rays, Captain Cold with city-freezing guns, that kind of stuff. Won't fly today.

But of the Rogues, the one who might be able to be both #2 and #4 (and maybe even #3) would be the Mirror Master, reimagined. Some kind of creepy horror-tinged mastermind who lives in a dimension behind mirrors? Who can observe everything and control people through mirrors or reflective surfaces? That could work really well. Then you have a whole season--first off trying to figure out what's going on when people do strange or uncharacteristic things, then finding out it's an alternative dimension, then trying to protect people from mirrors/reflections, then trying to find a way into the mirror-dimension, etc.


An updated version of The Thinker might work too, I suppose. Or Rag Doll, if they went with the Charles Manson/guy can't be hurt by punching him angle. Or bring Grodd back for a season-long arc.

------------

One other thing that sort of bugs me about the show but I think it's finally working out ok is that Earth-2 is basically a mash-up of old DC Earth-2 and old DC Earth-3--a place where most of the superpowered dopplegangers are evil, but where the non-supers are good. I don't think they knew that was what it would be when they started, so it's never felt fully consistent. But now they seem to have the 'rules' figured out.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on May 03, 2016, 01:19:09 PM
I think your last idea is where we're headed. Flash vs. Grodd and the army of apes that they gave him.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on May 03, 2016, 04:58:48 PM
Been trying to think about it and actually I realized there isn't a single Earth-2 super that's good except that we were shown a few examples of Jay Garrick being a good guy early in the season--and Wells seems to treat Garrick as a failed do-gooder. This doesn't go at all with the story we were told in the early part of the season.

I'm suddenly wondering if Zoom is in fact actually from Earth-3? That the man in the mask is the Earth-2 Garrick? But you know, if so, the show is really kind of in a rut--that would be the second "I was pretending to be your mentor, but I'm actually evil but wait there's still a good version of me" story.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 03, 2016, 07:18:08 PM
Zoom was always Garrick.  He was just playing the part of a hero while also being the villain, just to you know, fuck with people.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on May 22, 2016, 12:07:44 AM
Jay Garrick is the man in the mask, and likely the original Flash. Notice that Barry's grandmother's maiden name was Garrick. That little detail wasn't dropped for no reason.

I think all the DCU TV shows need to drop the whole 1 master villain per season thing. It's really hurt Arrow and there are some parts of this season of Flash where it just hasn't made any sense that they aren't fighting Zoom. I have no problem with them taking 2 master villains per season - just do one that goes through the mid-season finale, then start again with another one the second half. Of course, that may be a no-go because actors want to be hired for full seasons but I think it would work better.

You have to remember something about Earth-2: Zoom seems to have been in some kind of control for a while there, so any supers who weren't evil may be dead or captured by now.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: MediumHigh on May 22, 2016, 07:31:07 AM
Honestly Arrow better seasons where when they literally hide the main Villains until the last 5-6 episodes. Hell Harrison Wells as the reverse flash wasn't revealed until mid season, the heroes didn't have to confront him until the last 4-5. I think they're stretching out the drama because the writing staff maybe hitting the DCCU limit where Warner Bros is nipping anything that would interfere with the movies. They need about 3 main villain archs per season otherwise this is going to be smallville levels of unwatchable soon.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on July 12, 2016, 06:08:39 PM
Kid Flash announced for next season.  Costume looks good, I'm not digging the additional chin part or whatever though.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnI5K3AUcAA0eCO.jpg)


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on July 12, 2016, 07:23:15 PM
I'm down with it. The chin piece mirrors the current costume design.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 12, 2016, 07:29:19 PM
Yeah it stays thematic with the CWverse flash suits which is deceptively important.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on July 13, 2016, 04:59:01 AM
I am kind of assuming he's going to get the name "Kid" Flash because Captain Cold or someone else derisively mocks him that way.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on July 23, 2016, 07:15:20 PM
Flash Season 3 teaser. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LGQRbPERaU)   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on July 23, 2016, 07:20:03 PM
Really like the look of this. They're committing to the premise in a good way.

(Unlike Arrow...)


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on July 23, 2016, 07:23:42 PM
Really like the look of this. They're committing to the premise in a good way.

(Unlike Arrow...)


Arrow is going back to it's "Vigilante" roots now.  Amell has made it clear he knows that having to help Flash and Legends launch that the show has suffered.  He's hoping that they can get on course this season since they don't have to worry about anything but the crossover.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on July 23, 2016, 07:25:44 PM
Except that it's a bunch of new characters who seem uninspired for the most part (Wild Dog? Digging deep in the intellectual property discard there) rather than focusing on Ollie and some more intense or concentrated character work.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Evildrider on July 23, 2016, 07:29:42 PM
Except that it's a bunch of new characters who seem uninspired for the most part (Wild Dog? Digging deep in the intellectual property discard there) rather than focusing on Ollie and some more intense or concentrated character work.


You'll have to ask Geoff Johns about that.  You still have Artemis and Mister Terrific.  The Olicity shit is what bothers me the most about the show lately.  Then I remember its CW and I have to put up with it to see the other stuff.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on July 23, 2016, 07:37:40 PM
I don't know that I've seen a basically fun character ruined as thoroughly as they ruined Felicity. And it happened about mid-way through Season 3.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on July 23, 2016, 10:08:35 PM
Having to launch Legends and have crossovers with Flash were the POSITIVES of the last season of Arrow. If that's why they think the show suffered, they were very wrong.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on July 24, 2016, 05:07:18 AM
They just do not an idea for Arrow which can hold up for a season's worth of orders, or at least haven't since the second season ended.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on July 24, 2016, 10:03:31 AM
Both Flash and Arrow have suffered from the same mentality - we have to have ONE big bad villain that carries the whole goddamn season. It worked in first season of both shows because we didn't really know who the villain was for like half the season. There was mystery on top of building characters. Season 3 of Arrow and Season 2 of Flash both gave you the villains up front and center and there was no mystery to it. There was just stretching one story out to 22 episodes. They both need to be a bit more Burn Notice and a bit less of that. Of course, Burn Notice pulled it off because there were only 13 episodes a season. They should just break the seasons up into 2 long stories instead of 1.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on November 30, 2016, 05:47:31 AM
Starting to lose interest in the show. It's stuck in a time loop of its own making--an inability to think of a serious menace to the Flash that isn't a speedster, and an unrewarding obsession with time travel. The time travel plot was done in the first season and didn't need to be done again. Or if it was done again, I'd prefer to have the "Barry Allen gets castigated by his friends" done in a relatively concentrated way and to move on from there. One of the assets of the CW shows in theory is that they're a palate cleanser from the Snyder Murderverse version, and the Flash and Supergirl particularly function that way. Nobody wants mopey, angry Cisco Ramone. Agitated almost-Killer Snow Caitlin Frost is a bit better, but still kind of annoying. Guilt-ridden, furtive Barry Allen is just, please, stop it. What is especially driving me nuts, though, is that there's no sense of progression in the character: he's not getting better at being the Flash, he's actually getting kind of worse at it. He remains basically dumb about his powers most of the time, because otherwise the writers don't know how to explain how an adversary lasts more than 2 minutes against him.

But that's easy, and it's annoying that they don't seem to have the imagination to pull it off. Take Mirror Master--a colossally wasted version of the character who could potentially be half-season long or longer antagonist. A guy who isn't really there, who can jump into mirrors and glass to get away, who can project illusions, who can't be kept out of a place, who could be a terrifying manipulator (he sometimes has hypnotic powers in the comics)? Super-speed alone can't beat an enemy like that. And he's not an expensive CGI-fest villain like Gorilla Grodd.

I do have a sneaking suspicion that HR is Abra Kadabra (the drumstick would be his wand) but I almost hope not, since that's likely to lead to more time-travel stuff. Plus it is yet another example of the Flash team being dumb if so--you once again let a version of Harrison Wells hoodwink you?

The cast is really appealing and they've established a pretty good setting. They should be able to do more with it than what they're doing now.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: MrHat on November 30, 2016, 06:31:00 AM
Starting to lose interest in the show. It's stuck in a time loop of its own making--an inability to think of a serious menace to the Flash that isn't a speedster, and an unrewarding obsession with time travel. The time travel plot was done in the first season and didn't need to be done again. Or if it was done again, I'd prefer to have the "Barry Allen gets castigated by his friends" done in a relatively concentrated way and to move on from there. One of the assets of the CW shows in theory is that they're a palate cleanser from the Snyder Murderverse version, and the Flash and Supergirl particularly function that way. Nobody wants mopey, angry Cisco Ramone. Agitated almost-Killer Snow Caitlin Frost is a bit better, but still kind of annoying. Guilt-ridden, furtive Barry Allen is just, please, stop it. What is especially driving me nuts, though, is that there's no sense of progression in the character: he's not getting better at being the Flash, he's actually getting kind of worse at it. He remains basically dumb about his powers most of the time, because otherwise the writers don't know how to explain how an adversary lasts more than 2 minutes against him.

But that's easy, and it's annoying that they don't seem to have the imagination to pull it off. Take Mirror Master--a colossally wasted version of the character who could potentially be half-season long or longer antagonist. A guy who isn't really there, who can jump into mirrors and glass to get away, who can project illusions, who can't be kept out of a place, who could be a terrifying manipulator (he sometimes has hypnotic powers in the comics)? Super-speed alone can't beat an enemy like that. And he's not an expensive CGI-fest villain like Gorilla Grodd.

I do have a sneaking suspicion that HR is Abra Kadabra (the drumstick would be his wand) but I almost hope not, since that's likely to lead to more time-travel stuff. Plus it is yet another example of the Flash team being dumb if so--you once again let a version of Harrison Wells hoodwink you?

The cast is really appealing and they've established a pretty good setting. They should be able to do more with it than what they're doing now.


Completely agree. I really enjoyed how his powers were growing because of the monster of the week formula was working so well to introduce enemies that seemingly would be hard to deal with if you had superspeed (smokey, freezey, invisiblely stuff).

I thought when they introduced Legends that they'd do away with time travel in other stories, but nope.

It's still better than most of the scripted TV out there at least for now.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: NowhereMan on November 30, 2016, 07:44:40 AM
The whole Flashpoint conceit was kind of interesting as a way to shake things up and get done with time travel but it's got the really annoying effect of resetting character growth. I'd be happy with Caitlin or Cisco getting a sidelined a bit more or having story arcs that don't really need their characters to change so radically. The whole thing of Caitlin getting powers that make her evil is just so forced it's painful. Getting ice powers and being terrified you'll turn into a psycho villain is fine, with her history it makes sense but they suddenly jump her to, 'welp I've got powers now so I better start with the murdering people who annoy me!'


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Threash on November 30, 2016, 08:12:39 AM
Best part of the episode was Supergirl effortlessly beating the shit out of everyone.  Of course afterwards when she was actually trying she was completely useless.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on November 30, 2016, 01:16:19 PM
Why didn't the Legends go back and stop Barry from making Flashpoint, again?


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Ironwood on November 30, 2016, 01:29:16 PM
Because these shows are retarded.   One should only watch them for Benoist.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on November 30, 2016, 01:50:50 PM
She's really great.

But I think Gustin is or at least was great as the Flash--in the first two seasons he was really nailing the characterization and bringing the fun.

Another thing that's always been an issue for the series is the truly bizarre decision to start it with Iris being Barry's adoptive sister. This means that there is always something off-putting about them getting together. It would have been more interesting in a way if they chose to use Flashpoint make Iris into Joe's daughter who *grew up* with her mother, not Joe (e.g., make Wally the guy who grew up with Barry). That could almost work--it would make Wally and Barry both friends and sibling rivals, and it would allow Iris to see Barry as a relative stranger who she is weirdly into. Even then, kind of unsettling but not the same way.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Ironwood on November 30, 2016, 01:56:50 PM
It's not the acting, it's the writing.  Almost all the guys in Flash, Arrow and SG can put in the work when they try, but what they're asked to speak, emote and bring out is just shite in orders of magnitude with some occasional good shit.

Legends is pure boaby though, from top to bottom.




Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Rasix on November 30, 2016, 02:21:34 PM
I've been binging this lately from Netflix. End of season 2 killed it for me I think. That was really fucking stupid. I hate time travel so much.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on November 30, 2016, 03:51:07 PM
It's just dumb when it's not thought out. I mean, ok, so if Reverse-Flash knows that time travel fucks stuff up and is always a mistake, why did he travel back to kill Barry as a little kid, then? We know that he didn't do that as a rookie mistake, that was after years and years of fighting the Flash and hating him more and more. At this point, you can't make heads or tails of it, really: Eobard Thawne still exists, apparently, despite Eddie Thawne supposedly preventing his existence; Eobard Thawne still seems to have gone into the past and become Harrison Wells, and that doesn't seem to have created "changes in the timeline"--everyone still remembers stuff happening as it happened in Season 1 (you'd think that's the thing that would have been *most* affected by Flashpoint, right?). In fact, in Flashpoint, why was Barry a detective in the first place? He only was motivated to become one to find his mother's real killer and exonerate his dad. The things that you'd think would be hardest to restore or most disrupted by Barry saving his mom don't seem to really be the things that matter--the only disrupted things were things that happened somewhere near the end of Season 2 or so. If they wanted to change the status quo to give Caitlin powers, they've already got several ways to do it--Earth-2 has infected Earth-1 with its own particle whatever, let's say (remember the mysterious thing in S1/S2 that there was something else besides the particle accelerator giving people powers?). If they wanted mopey Cisco Ramone for some reason, just write a story where his brother dies. If you want mopey Cisco who is also angry at Barry, make it so Barry doesn't answer the Flash-Signal because he's making out with Iris and Cisco's brother dies. If they want Iris mad with Joe, easy enough to write a reason for that. If they want Wally powered up, they already fucking laid the groundwork for that last season--they don't need any other narrative engine to make that happen!

Plus, the fucking Legends lecturing Barry about time travel. Please, people. Sarah barely stopped herself from killing Damien Dahrk--she'd at least be sympathetic to someone giving in. Martin Stein almost certainly has a daughter NOT because of Barry fucking with time but because Martin Stein fucked with time by talking to his younger self and getting his younger self to want to fuck his wife more often. Plus we can guess that Jay Garrick of Earth-3 has messed with time before. Plus we have time wraiths and faux-Time Lords and whatever. It makes Doctor Who look like Primer by comparison.



Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on November 30, 2016, 05:20:29 PM
Time travel is in the dna of the character at this point. Movie Flash was introduced while time traveling. You might as well be complaining about Dr Who time traveling.

And if one of you can point to any show that handles ongoing time travel well...

The closest I saw was Journeyman, and it had big flaws. Everything else takes huge grains of salt to stomach... Flash included.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: NowhereMan on December 01, 2016, 01:11:45 AM
Khaldun's point really though is that the time travel is getting used as a writing gimmick to get them to places they want to be without putting any real thought into it. Time travel happens and *bang* these character changes occurred and now we can write stories about that, without actually earning those changes or set ups. Time travel as a thought through, integral element of a show can be ok but really it's just too easy for writers to abuse as a deus ex machina. And in this case I mean it less for resolutions to problems (I think even the laziest writers are usually aware that feels like a cop out) and more it being used as a set up for character arcs and personality changes that could be earned through plots but instead just feel like lazy 'the status quo is all shook up suddenly, look we have arcs to write again!'


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on December 02, 2016, 05:58:37 AM
Soooo... crossover totally sucked, yes?


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Threash on December 02, 2016, 07:34:13 AM
I thought it was pretty awesome.  Other than the Supergirl episode, which was just a regular episode with barely a nod to the "crossover".  The Arrow and Flash episodes were specially very arrowy and flashy even given the crossover.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on December 02, 2016, 10:41:17 AM
Supergirl episode was not really crossover - agreed.

The other three didn't make a lick of sense. 


These shows take a grain of salt to swallow normally, but this one... the entire salt shaker.





Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: NowhereMan on December 05, 2016, 08:38:42 AM
Beyond having an actual super team on TV I really didn't like this much. The characters seemed to randomly change how they felt because of minor events, people came along or didn't for weird reasons that suddenly became apparent.
The writing is lazy and I'm only watching it because of super powers. I would like it to at least be light hearted fun again instead of relatively intricate plots that require everyone doing things to further the plot rather than for actual human reasons. Also I think the reveal of the Big Bad for this season was painful


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on December 05, 2016, 11:54:02 AM
I'm thinking that the quality control is spread too thin over 4 shows. 


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on December 05, 2016, 11:59:06 AM
Legends is certainly better than last season but it's still pretty goofy. Flash is really struggling to figure out what stories to tell that don't just treadmill around to what it's already done. Arrow is sort of back on track but I also think it never figured out what to be once it stopped being "Affectionate homage/ripoff of the Nolan Batman movies".


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Ironwood on December 05, 2016, 12:50:17 PM
No it isn't.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Khaldun on December 05, 2016, 01:13:55 PM
Yeah, that's a bit too generous.

"Less stupidly bad than last season". Maybe


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on December 30, 2016, 10:52:54 AM
I still love Flash but the time-travel thing, specifically in the mid-season finale, is getting a bit much. It's starting to lean into the X-Men Days of Future Past Past Again But Not Really and Yet Another Future Past Again But Different. If you've followed X-Men at all, you know exactly what I mean.  :oh_i_see:

Flashpoint was brought in for most likely one reason - Geoff Johns. He's now one of the head honchos on both the shows and the movies and while I often love his comic work, you can clearly see that some of the storylines are here because he did them in the comics originally. Flashpoint and Savitar are the prime examples. I don't think either story had the lasting power that he thinks they do. I think where these shows are still tripping up is in the one big bad guy behind an entire season's worth of shit. Sometimes, we really need to break that up with more freak of the week shows that have no connection to the big bad at all.

I loved the crossover but the resolution was weak, and you could tell it was mainly because of budget. That last battle should have been much bigger and less TV-feeling but it wasn't and I can only guess it was because of budget concerns. It felt like a scaled down "Battle of the Blackwater." However, the character moments they used such as the Arrow team getting kidnapped, I totally get. The Dominators removed the Arrow team because they were the most experienced and the most tactical. Also, it was because the Arrow episode needed to be focused on the Arrow team.

I still think Flash and Supergirl are the best of the 4 shows, with Arrow next and Legends as just a terrible, guilty pleasure right now. Legends is utter trash junk food that I watch because it's super heroes.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: eldaec on January 11, 2017, 01:52:41 PM
I just started watching this after losing it half way through season 1.

What it mostly needs is much more Micheal Scofield and Lincoln Burrows.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on March 25, 2018, 08:08:27 PM
We've had nothing to say about any of the DC CW shows in over a year?  Did we all lose interest?

I was just thinking that if they ever put a Wonder Woman into these shows, they should cast Inbar Lavi from Imposters.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on March 25, 2018, 09:04:15 PM
I'm steadily watching, though I've been trying to catch up on all of them before I watch the Crisis on Earth-X crossover. Flash is still good. Arrow is just draining my will to live. The whole "I have to give up being Green Arrow/Diggle is Arrow but can't fire a bow because DRUGS!/Everyone do something stupid even though you know better because DRAMA!" is really wearing on me.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on March 25, 2018, 10:04:10 PM
Supergirl - Beyond eye candy, This has never really grabbed me, but I watch it to keep up with the whole Arrowverse.
Legends of Tomorrow - They act like they think the show is going to be canceled.  My interest will skyrocket is Constantine does become a regular member, but it has been pretty weak this season.  However, I'd rather they just cancel Legends and make a Constantine show.
Flash - The best of these shows.  It has been the most watchable, but it feels like they've been treading water.  The 'season' story should have been a half season story.
Black Lightning - Not officially part of the Arrowverse, yet, but will likely get there eventually once there is a change in leadership.  I dropped it as the acting bothered me and there was no need to watch it to be completionist on the Arrowverse.
Arrow - Fallen so far - so very far.  They need to blow up his world and give him his grit back - or cancel it.



Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Ironwood on March 26, 2018, 01:25:35 AM
Wait, wait wait.  Is Black Lightning in this league ?

I was going to watch it with the wife, since it seemed more 'grown up', but I can't watch another one of these shows.  They're shite.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on March 26, 2018, 05:44:11 AM
How good is season 4? I was kinda disappointed in season three and after hearing what happened at Barry's wedding I basically said "fuck everything about arrowverse"


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on March 26, 2018, 07:18:47 AM
Wait, wait wait.  Is Black Lightning in this league ?

I was going to watch it with the wife, since it seemed more 'grown up', but I can't watch another one of these shows.  They're shite.

What I said above was "Not yet.".  They exist separaetly for now.  The current show runner has 'no plans' to cross over, but I do not think that lasts unless it outlasts the other shows.  I think we see a crosover eventually.  If you tell fans there is a hope of crossover, they push for it right away.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Ironwood on March 26, 2018, 07:54:53 AM
I honestly thought he was a brand new 'for TV' hero and wasn't based on a comic.



Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on March 26, 2018, 09:37:57 AM
Black Lightining has been around the comic since the '70's. I think he was the Justice League's first black hero and kind of served the same role as the Falcon did to Captain America (though I don't think he ever was an official Justice League member).

Season 4 of Arrow was better than the Damien Dark season but still continued the tradition of "let's do stupid fucking things because DRAMA" writing. Season 5 has so far been nothing but "I will do this stupid thing because my character needs an arc to give me something to do besides exist but goddamn I really should know better than to do this stupid thing." The show just doesn't seem to know where to go if everyone isn't miserable and hiding their feelings.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: NowhereMan on March 26, 2018, 10:19:34 AM
Wasn't Black Lightning in Teen Titans? Or Batman Brave and the Bold? I'm sure I remember him from more than just some of those massive cross over DC titles I read.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: HaemishM on March 26, 2018, 10:20:25 AM
He was in Brave and the Bold and he was a major player in Batman and the Outsiders.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Ironwood on March 26, 2018, 10:56:09 AM
Christ.  Thanks for the lesson then, I did not know.

DC.  Skip.



Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on March 26, 2018, 02:06:08 PM
NoWhereMan: You may also be thinking of Static Shock (or just Static in the comics), a younger hero with similar powers.  They'll likely fold him into this show somewhere.



Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Raguel on March 26, 2018, 05:35:58 PM

There was also Black Vulcan in the Superfriends but that was a long time ago.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: rattran on March 26, 2018, 06:28:27 PM
Supervolt! He's got lightning... in his pants.


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: Ironwood on March 27, 2018, 04:35:09 AM
Quick Question :  Is Black Lightning 11 year old friendly like the rest of them ?


Title: Re: The Flash
Post by: jgsugden on March 27, 2018, 03:03:40 PM
Quick Question :  Is Black Lightning 11 year old friendly like the rest of them ?
I stopped watching a few episodes ago, but it is just a touch more mature than the other shows right now. 

They modeled the city in the show after Richmond and Oakland, CA. 

The violence is on par with Season 1 of Arrow (rather than later 'lighter' seasons), there are a lot of highly (blank)ist and (blank)ophobic characters.  There is a lot of physical wear and tear on the heroes (a bit like Daredevil season 1).

I wouldn't put an 11 year old in front of it and leave them unattended, but I'd watch it with them and interject where appropriate.