Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

[HaemishM]

You need to go back and watch The Cape again if you really think that.

This. The Cape was utter fucking trash. This had issues that need fixing but is certainly not a bad show.

[tazelbain]

But its not a good show, certainly not a show that makes some who is a fan of the Marvel Movie Universe excited. Not excited fan is a disappointed fan.

[Lakov_Sanite]

The "super models" are unappealing to the eye?  I'm not sure how that works.  Usually when people try having it both ways with a super model, they have something else in mind.

I think the right word would be "jarring" when it comes to the casting.  They are well and above tv pretty and it goes well into the realm of ridiculous, even hotties like Alyson Hannigan on Buffy were dressed down to an extent, not looking like they stepped out of a jcpenny catalog.  Case in point: Jeremy Renner who plays Hawkeye would never have been cast in this show for being too ugly.

[jgsugden]

There was only one main character in the show that wasn't in a uniform or suit.  Seriously - are we so fucking dedicated to typecasting that one pretty girl with a brain that is dressed up a bit is a nightmare beyond reason?And, for the last time, she is NOT THAT HOT.  If you put her on stage with the Victoria Secret girls, the last 12 Playboy centerfolds, or those pictures I have of your moms from before I wrecked them: She is going to be easy to pick out (mostly because she doesn't look like she is walking funny).   

If I met her in real life?  A 10.  Clearly.  Hot.  Amongst the model crowd?  A 4.  Not THAT hot.  Contrary to popular belief, we are encoded genetically to consider certain combinations of characteristics to be attractive.  If you run pictures through systems that analyze the traits to look for the things that we're encoded to like, there is a very high correlation between the rating a picture would get on the hotness scale and the score you'd get under that system.  They'd knock points off of her for her eye location, her nose tilt and a few other defects that we can see if we look for them, but we note unconciously when we look at people. 

Regardless, one episode is not enough to judge this show.  It is enough to judge the foundation.  That is an amazing foundation for the Marvel Universe to continue to build upon in TV and movies.

[MediumHigh]

One hot chick pretending to be a dork. Hey its tv, we need the fanservice. But two? I don't know... the trope is wearing thin. Combine that with the h+m nerd and you have an all star cast of young, attractive, super smart, government agents that have hearts of gold and whose clothes are more expensive than my laptop. It's gag worthy. 

[tazelbain]

Have to look nice for your slow-motion high-fives.

[shiznitz]

12.1 million watched the premier.  Hard to sustain that, but half that number makes it a hit.

[Lakov_Sanite]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNUvqIsYo7k

 

[Merusk]

High-fashion geeks are insulting to geeks (hey, local audience) because it misunderstands the persona.

I'll throw $200 at a new video card I'll discard in a year or two without thinking twice.  Meanwhile I question spending more than $30 on a shirt I'll likely use once a week for the next 5-10 years.

That's why geeks dress badly. That's why "high fashion model geeks who are also poor" are always a "wait, wtf" moment.  You have misunderstood not the trope, but the personna.

You're asking us to believe in the cop who doesn't talk about guns or the sexpot who doesn't look-over the eyecandy in the room.


The show has problems. It's not a sin to point out these problems.  It's also OK to be a fan of shows with problems, so long as you're willing to admit to them but like it anyway.  Dismissing ALL criticism of something is where you get called a fanboy and can be ignored.

You're allowed to like something even if it's really terrible. Really. I love Starship Troopers but it's AWFUL.  The same with the first season of Babylon 5 and Star Wars in general. I still like them but I'm not going to defend them as if my own personal cred were on the line. They've got flaws and I love them despite those flaws.

[MediumHigh]

30 dollars? Any shirt that cost more than 5 dollars gets a critical stare 

[Merusk]

I have an office job where wearing a T-shirt or crew neck would be unprofessional and an unusual disdain for collars.  Those things are terrible to iron, always poking you in the jaw when they flare-up.  They're also useless in a world where nobody wears a tie anymore.  Oh look, extra fabric for no good reason that I have to launder, buy points for and maintain.  What a joy!

Therefore all my work shirts have banded collars which are hard to find and slightly more pricey.

[Lakov_Sanite]

A single pixel is dead....must buy new monitor.

[jgsugden]

Ahhh... so she isn't your type of geek, so she is ridiculous.  Climb out from under your rock and look around.  You're missing the party.  The stereotypes of the 90s are out of date.  There are hot women in tech.  I live in the SF Bay Area, I've worked with and around a lot of tech companies, and I know seen a large number of people in tech - and there are quite a few that seem like they'd shock you. 

Some of the geeks in my circle have $1500 handbags, 80 pairs of shoes, and (at least some of them) had more plastic surgery than Barbie. And some of those are female, too.

Have you been to (or seen) Comic-con?  Do you remember those cosplay girls they mocked in the pilot?  The good outfits cost thousands of dollars to assemble, and the bodies poured into them took a lot of effort, too.  If you stalked some of those girls home, some of them have decent incomes and spend them on the 'nice things' that Carrie Bradshaw would buy - and spend hours on cardio and toning. 

Are the majority of girls that would classify themselves as hackers wearing classic Dior, carrying the latest Louis Vuitton, and walking on their 8th pair of Manolo Blahniks?  No.  Do mostof them look like they fell out of a magazine?  No.  Do some?  Heck yes.  And if you google the images of the top female hackers in the world, you'll see what I mean. 

[Velorath]

The show has problems. It's not a sin to point out these problems.  It's also OK to be a fan of shows with problems, so long as you're willing to admit to them but like it anyway.  Dismissing ALL criticism of something is where you get called a fanboy and can be ignored.

That's true. To me the problems are the somewhat thin characterization in the first episode, and that there wasn't anything particularly surprising plot-wise (partly because I think they put out enough preview footage that I felt like I'd seen half the episode already). What I don't consider a problem is the "the people on this network TV series are too attractive" crusade Lakov started before the series even aired. Yeah, it sucks that attractive people in Hollywood get more work than unattractive people, but I'm not sure why this particular show is where the line needs to be drawn. Nor do I give a shit about the fashion sense of any of the characters. That kinda stuff to me falls under "looking for reasons to complain".

[Trippy]

Ahhh... so she isn't your type of geek, so she is ridiculous.  Climb out from under your rock and look around.  You're missing the party.  The stereotypes of the 90s are out of date.  There are hot women in tech.  I live in the SF Bay Area, I've worked with and around a lot of tech companies, and I know seen a large number of people in tech - and there are quite a few that seem like they'd shock you. 

There are hot women in tech. There are, however, very *very* few hot women programmers.

[Raguel]

The show has problems. It's not a sin to point out these problems.  It's also OK to be a fan of shows with problems, so long as you're willing to admit to them but like it anyway.  Dismissing ALL criticism of something is where you get called a fanboy and can be ignored.

That's true. To me the problems are the somewhat thin characterization in the first episode, and that there wasn't anything particularly surprising plot-wise (partly because I think they put out enough preview footage that I felt like I'd seen half the episode already). What I don't consider a problem is the "the people on this network TV series are too attractive" crusade Lakov started before the series even aired. Yeah, it sucks that attractive people in Hollywood get more work than unattractive people, but I'm not sure why this particular show is where the line needs to be drawn. Nor do I give a shit about the fashion sense of any of the characters. That kinda stuff to me falls under "looking for reasons to complain".

I guess I live in a cave because it didn't even occur to me that hacker chick wore expensive clothes. I got the feeling she was a poor little rich girl, but that's probably cuz I'm racist.  

AoS needs more Steranko and less Buffy IMO.

[Velorath]

This thread is giving me flashbacks of the Felicia Day talk that was going on for a few pages in the f13 redesign thread.

[MediumHigh]

Ahhh... so she isn't your type of geek, so she is ridiculous.  Climb out from under your rock and look around.  You're missing the party.  The stereotypes of the 90s are out of date.  There are hot women in tech.  I live in the SF Bay Area, I've worked with and around a lot of tech companies, and I know seen a large number of people in tech - and there are quite a few that seem like they'd shock you. 

Some of the geeks in my circle have $1500 handbags, 80 pairs of shoes, and (at least some of them) had more plastic surgery than Barbie. And some of those are female, too.

Have you been to (or seen) Comic-con?  Do you remember those cosplay girls they mocked in the pilot?  The good outfits cost thousands of dollars to assemble, and the bodies poured into them took a lot of effort, too.  If you stalked some of those girls home, some of them have decent incomes and spend them on the 'nice things' that Carrie Bradshaw would buy - and spend hours on cardio and toning. 

Are the majority of girls that would classify themselves as hackers wearing classic Dior, carrying the latest Louis Vuitton, and walking on their 8th pair of Manolo Blahniks?  No.  Do mostof them look like they fell out of a magazine?  No.  Do some?  Heck yes.  And if you google the images of the top female hackers in the world, you'll see what I mean. 

Look I ain't pissing on female nerds that are hot as hell. Lord knows I've drooled over my share. What I'm pissing on is the overuse of the trope. And the hot topic nerd guy on top of the fanservice cast? Well fuck me. Actually I have nothing but venom for that guy. I don't know, a weird combination of being white bread characters (2 of which are apart of a rather scary government agency) + being a part of a trope that seems to be overused by everyone recently...arg. I mean we live in a decade where robocop can't be a disfigured meta-human, nope ladies he is defiantly brad pitt under the mask.

[Margalis]

Ahhh... so she isn't your type of geek, so she is ridiculous.  Climb out from under your rock and look around.  You're missing the party.  The stereotypes of the 90s are out of date.  There are hot women in tech.  I live in the SF Bay Area, I've worked with and around a lot of tech companies, and I know seen a large number of people in tech - and there are quite a few that seem like they'd shock you.  

How many of those live out of a van, park behind a coffee shop so they can leech free WiFi and use a laptop they won in a bet?

It's fucking stupid. Her character is basically a homeless person yet she looks like a supermodel. It shows a complete lack of commitment to their own premise and a disregard for honest storytelling. If she lives out of a van and has no money think about what that means and follow through on it. If you're being honest there's no way you write an obsessive computer hacker who lives in a van to be an attractive perfectly groomed woman, or if you do you address it in the script in a way that makes sense.

What I don't consider a problem is the "the people on this network TV series are too attractive" crusade Lakov started before the series even aired. Yeah, it sucks that attractive people in Hollywood get more work than unattractive people, but I'm not sure why this particular show is where the line needs to be drawn. Nor do I give a shit about the fashion sense of any of the characters. That kinda stuff to me falls under "looking for reasons to complain".

It's basic characterization and storytelling. It's fine if you don't care about those things but it seems awfully silly to object to people who do. There are plenty of good recent dramas where the casting and makeup is much more in line with the characters. (The problem here is less the casting than the way the character is presented) A character like this would be completely out of place on a good drama that isn't network comic book shlock.

[Tmon]

Didn't watch the pilot but based on the latest episode I'm not impressed with the show.  The characters seem like cartoons, the plot had holes you could fly that plane through and the writing for the weapons expert/soldier guy was especially painful.

[Tannhauser]

The second episode was better than the pilot.  It felt tighter, more self-contained.  The two scientists were more tolerable; they were correctly useless in a firefight.  Ward and Hacker girl are still kind of weak, but maybe they'll get better with time.  It didn't revolutionize TV, but it kept my interest and I enjoyed it.

 

[Khaldun]

Well, anyway, this is the least of the show's problems, judging from tonight's episode. Really did not like it.

1) There's a cheesy 70s vibe in a lot of it and about the same kind of pacing. It feels more like a spin-off of the Six Million Dollar Man and less of the Marvel movies. Coulson is starting to remind me of Oscar Goldman. If this was on purpose it would be more fun. But I don't think it is. The car chase from the temple was just   cheap looking--it was like all those 70s shows where somewhere in Topanga Canyon would double for exotic locations all around the world.

2) The pacing through the rest of it was also just laggy, dull, languid. Everyone's line readings feel like they're on barbituates except for Fitz/Simmons.

3) Sexy evil Latina lady was a bad dumb stereotype AND kind of incomprehensible to boot. I don't get her exactly: she was just cruising through the jungle with her commandoes 'cause she heard the Hydra dingus was found, and then rebels came and then she somehow managed to get her guys on board and they somehow came up with a plan without talking with each other and what? what? what? These guys are supposed to be ordinary Peruvian soldiers but with elite skills?  Plus Marvel Universe Peru is evidently somewhere really different than Our Universe Peru, either that or the last thing Whedon read about the place was when Sendero Luminoso was on the rise, which would be back when he was an undergraduate. Plus ex-Nazis went to Argentina, not Peru. Plus Peru's politics were pretty turbulent after WWII: I have a hard time imagining a sinister cabal within the Peruvian government of that era making a plan to acquire a superweapon.

4) OMG the cheesy music during certain "character" moments. And OMG the bit at the end about how he's going to have to train the hacker chick to be a secret agent. This shit I cannot make excuses for--it was excrutiating.

5) SHIELD sends a rocket to the sun every single time they find a powerful artifact? That's post-Cosmic Cube policy, I guess. (Speaking of which, how is a HYDRA weapon still powered up? Didn't they all depend on the Cosmic Cube for their power?)


The pilot I could excuse. But the show is now on execution watch for me. That was just really bad.

also p.s. an inflatable raft plugging a hole that big in depressurizing plane? what was it made of, adamantium?

[Velorath]

It's basic characterization and storytelling. It's fine if you don't care about those things but it seems awfully silly to object to people who do. There are plenty of good recent dramas where the casting and makeup is much more in line with the characters. (The problem here is less the casting than the way the character is presented) A character like this would be completely out of place on a good drama that isn't network comic book shlock.

That she doesn't look like a person who is living out of a van I think is a reasonable complaint. Certainly it makes more sense than the people complaining that geeks just don't look or dress like that, which to me is like going into the thread for Gravity and complaining that George Clooney and Sandra Bullock are too attractive to be astronauts.

[Hayduke]

Even though this show is a colossal train wreck, it's certainly not because the actors are too attractive.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Ahhh... so she isn't your type of geek, so she is ridiculous.  Climb out from under your rock and look around.  You're missing the party.  The stereotypes of the 90s are out of date.  There are hot women in tech.  I live in the SF Bay Area, I've worked with and around a lot of tech companies, and I know seen a large number of people in tech - and there are quite a few that seem like they'd shock you. 

Some of the geeks in my circle have $1500 handbags, 80 pairs of shoes, and (at least some of them) had more plastic surgery than Barbie. And some of those are female, too.

Have you been to (or seen) Comic-con?  Do you remember those cosplay girls they mocked in the pilot?  The good outfits cost thousands of dollars to assemble, and the bodies poured into them took a lot of effort, too.  If you stalked some of those girls home, some of them have decent incomes and spend them on the 'nice things' that Carrie Bradshaw would buy - and spend hours on cardio and toning. 

Are the majority of girls that would classify themselves as hackers wearing classic Dior, carrying the latest Louis Vuitton, and walking on their 8th pair of Manolo Blahniks?  No.  Do mostof them look like they fell out of a magazine?  No.  Do some?  Heck yes.  And if you google the images of the top female hackers in the world, you'll see what I mean. 

[Ghambit]

Welp, I'd say after watching epi. 2 (the one that was supposed to knock our socks off) that Whedon indeed doesn't have full control over this IP.  This show has Disney's stink all over it; Utter fail.  Fuckin Terra Nova's worst epi. was better then this one. 

It felt like I was watching a creepy Mouseketeers episode, complete with horrible music, politically-correct (and wholly unrealistic) dialogue, and overly made up kid-actors.   The only bright spot??  Seeing Leonor Varela in all her glory.  (she is definitely aging well; keeping in shape)

[Khaldun]

Wow, that is exactly right. It felt like it belonged on the Disney Channel right after Wizards of Waverly Place. Had the same pacing and same acting style.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I should point out too that I never said the glamour models in the show was why it would suck, only that it was indicative of the suck that would follow.  When you cast your show to look like 90210 you are generally not going to have anything of substance behind it and lo and behold I was right. Shocking.

[Velorath]

Welp, I'd say after watching epi. 2 (the one that was supposed to knock our socks off) that Whedon indeed doesn't have full control over this IP. 

Or the simpler explanation is that it's not that Disney isn't isn't letting him control things, it's that this show likely isn't his main focus. I get the feeling he's left it more in the hands of his brother (and his brother's fiancé) while he's off focusing more on the movie stuff.  Also, looking at the list of writer's on this series, there's a couple people he worked with on Angel (one of whom also apparently did a number of episodes of Spartacus), but the other five were writers on stuff like Alias, Lost, Chuck, Hawaii Five-0, Hemlock Grove, Fringe, none of which are shows I've ever watched.

[MediumHigh]

Oh dear. Well at least this show gave us hot latina lady. That wifebeater cleavage

The best part of this episode was the last 10 seconds... beyond that...oh dear. This show is defiantly corny and even worse has terrible action sequences.

The one of many things that bug me....why on god greens earth would they let the peru military inside their plane? I mean sure fire fight, big chase, and all that jazz but there was like 10 of those guys vs 4 dudes in a jeep, even if there was more rebels coming i'm sure the one of your commando's have a radio. they should have parted ways at some point, not led a squad of heavily armed men four times their number head right to their hq... Oh and considering that shield is kinda like the cia of the UN (or even more secret version of the CIA for the US) why in the 9 fucks do they drive around with their logo printed everywhere? I mean fuck how did tony stark never heard of these guys when their operating procedure is to ride around with their flag waving in the air.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Oh yeah I noticed that.  Super secret organization has their logo printed on their truck and Coulsen introduces himself as a member of shield, which isn't even in line with the movies where shield was very much in the shadows.

[Velorath]

The movies seem somewhat inconsistent in that same regard though, probably due to the fact that when they were introduced in Iron Man Marvel didn't have solid plans for what they were building to yet. Coulson doesn't seem all that secretive in the first movie about who he works for, and even though later movies suggest that SHIELD had been operating for quite some time they aren't even going by the acronym yet in IM1.

[Ironwood]

If you stalked some of those girls home, some of them have decent incomes and spend them on the 'nice things'

Dude.  Duuuude. 

[Tmon]

Well, anyway, this is the least of the show's problems, judging from tonight's episode. Really did not like it.

1) There's a cheesy 70s vibe in a lot of it and about the same kind of pacing. It feels more like a spin-off of the Six Million Dollar Man and less of the Marvel movies. Coulson is starting to remind me of Oscar Goldman. If this was on purpose it would be more fun. But I don't think it is. The car chase from the temple was just   cheap looking--it was like all those 70s shows where somewhere in Topanga Canyon would double for exotic locations all around the world.

I was thinking more like a MacGyver episode, but otherwise I think you nailed the vibe I got from the episode.

[Merusk]

There it is! I was watching trying to figure out what the whole action scene reminded me of.  I was thinking "80's action drama" but it didn't seem quite right.  MacGuyver fits.