Star Trek: Into Darkness

[Lakov_Sanite]

When is extended universe bullshit NOT fn fiction? Doesn't matter the particular series, none of it should be allowed, ever.

[Rishathra]

So, the Klingons had unfettered access to the Narada for twenty years and they aren't rampaging across the Alpha Quadrant in their fleets of unstoppable battle cruisers because...?

[UnSub]

So, the Klingons had unfettered access to the Narada for twenty years and they aren't rampaging across the Alpha Quadrant in their fleets of unstoppable battle cruisers because...?

Honour.

*cough*

I know there is some trepidation at how Nu-Star Trek could screw up the Borg, but let's face it, there are a lot of other races / stories to screw up too.

[Hutch]

OK, I saw it over the weekend, and I'm just now getting around to the end of this thread.

I agree that it wasn't necessary to remix the Khan story. Stories? It's an infinite universe, there's lots of other things they could have done instead.

OK. So, the story is about Khan. With that in mind, I liked the movie. I was actually thinking, about a third of the way through it, that it was falling together much better than the previous film. And I liked the previous film.

Having said that: I was not a big fan of the warp core reversal. They should have left that scene alone.

If I had the Weird Science machine, I'm pretty sure I'd make Alice Eve appear out of it. She is something else.
(somewhere in Hollywood, a coke-addled exec is thinking, "Weird Science remake! Let's make it happen!")

Karl Urban killed it as McCoy.

Peter Weller should be in every movie.

[Speedy Cerviche]

Just saw it, pretty bad.

So many huge plot holes.

Unidentified gunship entering restricted military airspace? We can detect that crap now.

How the fuck does that guy transport across half the galaxy to klingon planet?

Their ship breaks down right beside the klingon home planet for hours to repair and no one investigates? Even when there's fighting on the surface and multiple patrol ships are destroyed?

Same thing happens in Earth orbit, big space fight for like an hour, gee none of the other 20 vessels in the area go to check it out?

They have a suit for walking inside a  volcano but they don't have any radiations suits sitting around beside the super radiation warp core entrance?

I couldn't believe how stupid this shit was, it makes those holodeck malfunction episodes look good.

[UnSub]

If I had the Weird Science machine, I'm pretty sure I'd make Alice Eve appear out of it. She is something else.
(somewhere in Hollywood, a coke-addled exec is thinking, "Weird Science remake! Let's make it happen!")

An R-rated version of "Weird Science" is in pre-production, I believe.

[Speedy Cerviche]

Oh yeah and what's up with the muslim Khan guy suicide flying his plane into an american city at the end? surprised that was put in.

[eldaec]

So, the Klingons had unfettered access to the Narada for twenty years and they aren't rampaging across the Alpha Quadrant in their fleets of unstoppable battle cruisers because...?

Honour.

*cough*

I know there is some trepidation at how Nu-Star Trek could screw up the Borg, but let's face it, there are a lot of other races / stories to screw up too.

Voyager already beat Abrams to it.

[HaemishM]

Oh yeah and what's up with the muslim Khan guy suicide flying his plane into an american city at the end? surprised that was put in.

Had to have a giant space vessel crashing into a city because it's cool looking or sumpin'.

[Ratman_tf]

So, the Klingons had unfettered access to the Narada for twenty years and they aren't rampaging across the Alpha Quadrant in their fleets of unstoppable battle cruisers because...?

Honour.

*cough*

I know there is some trepidation at how Nu-Star Trek could screw up the Borg, but let's face it, there are a lot of other races / stories to screw up too.

Voyager already beat Abrams to it.

If anything, Abrams knows how to beat a dead horse.

[Reg]

I just saw the movie today.  It was great.  I seriously should just stop reading F13 movie threads.  You guys never steer me wrong on games but on movies you're flat out, inexcusably wrong, pretty much every time.

[Ingmar]

Oh yeah and what's up with the muslim Khan guy suicide flying his plane into an american city at the end? surprised that was put in.

Assuming you're not just trolling: Singh is a Sikh name, you dumb motherfucker.

[Morat20]

When is extended universe bullshit NOT fn fiction? Doesn't matter the particular series, none of it should be allowed, ever.

The Final Reflection.

Um....that's about it. How Much For Just the Planet, also by the same guy, was fucking hilarious and should be read by everyone -- I even own it on Kindle, but it wasn't to be taken seriously. Although the entire Mister Science Guy Style introduction to dilithium and you was hilarious (especially the bit about how before it, it was pointless to fight at faster than light speeds because by the time your phasers hit the guy and why the Klingons and Romulans kept doing it anyways), as was, well, everything.

Final Reflection, OTOH -- well, you know everything about Klingons from TNG on? All that shit that isn't "Stock Black Space Villians"? Yeah, that was from that book. Author pretty much redefined Klingons to the point where nobody really thinks about the fact that they used to be another way.

Yeah, that one's worth picking up. Other than that....um, maybe that one of Kobayshi Maru short stories?

[Pennilenko]

I just saw the movie today.  It was great.  I seriously should just stop reading F13 movie threads.  You guys never steer me wrong on games but on movies you're flat out, inexcusably wrong, pretty much every time.

I agree with you. Now prepare to get kurdered with me.

[MediumHigh]

I liked the movie. Mostly because it moves so fast that any plot holes are leaped over at faster than light speed, while the ones you do notice don't break the rush. I'd say the next star trek movie desperately needs to be as far away from Earth as possible.

[Samwise]

I liked the movie. Mostly because it moves so fast that any plot holes are leaped over at faster than light speed, while the ones you do notice don't break the rush. I'd say the next star trek movie desperately needs to be as far away from Earth as possible.

Won't ever happen, because nobody cares about what happens to some other planet.

[eldaec]

Saw Best of Both Worlds again last week, really struck me how when they said the Borg had set course for 'Sector 001' it was all HOLY FUCK SHIT IS GETTING REAL, because they hadn't shrunk the universe down by only mentioning Earth and Kronos and then for some reason letting people beam between them.

[MediumHigh]

I liked the movie. Mostly because it moves so fast that any plot holes are leaped over at faster than light speed, while the ones you do notice don't break the rush. I'd say the next star trek movie desperately needs to be as far away from Earth as possible.

Won't ever happen, because nobody cares about what happens to some other planet.

I nearly didn't watch this movie because it seemed set on Earth. If they do it again, I'm waiting for the dvd on 1chan.

[Reg]

I think the next movie will be out in the uncharted galaxy.  Remember, at the end of the latest movie they were just setting out on their first 5 year voyage that was covered in the original series.

[Samprimary]

Kirk fighting Spock with the things? Huh?

Da da DAH DAH DAH DAH DAH da da DAH DAH

We haven't seen Spock do a pon farr yet in these movies, despite having lots of comical/dramatic potential and being a good classic Trek reference (besides the famous "Amok Time" fight scene it's also in Search for Spock).  I think it's gonna happen.

Ahahaha. I love that music.

In star trek online, that music starts playing in the episode where you are forced to fight in a desolate alien arena.

[Merusk]

The original series sure did know how to make music work for them. I miss that in modern shows.

[Sir T]

Star Trek Into Darkness... the honest trailer

Boy after watching this I'm glad I didn't watch this movie. 

[Venkman]

Finally got around to iTunes'ing this. Loved the first one, figured he couldn't screw it up that much.

Except for the radiated chamber sequence, I loved this one too. I was totally ok with all the fan service, because the movie was fine on its own as a Trek for a new audience, and instead of focusing on Wrath, they pulled liberally from across the entire Trek spectrum. They really didn't need to go deep, but did so anyway, proving they wanted to have fun with it. But the verbatim speech and and Spock's "Khhaaan" was too far.

Having said that, I loved every other part. I loved the megalomaniacal Admiral flying a Dreadnaught class developed by a clandestine organization militarizing Starfleet to be run by a minimal crew. Yea sure, all parts of that were done in pieces of other episodes and Trek series. But in total it was pulled right from a book called Dreadnaught, which I believe was discussed in this or the last JJ thread. All it was missing was the projector-array super weapon and why it was stolen, made up for by the transwarp drive and Khan piloting it.

That Khan was largely the victim for the flick was a great twist. That Kirk got his ass handed to him easily (both professionally and then physically) also was. I was expecting Kirk the superman, but they did a good job with humbling him. Empowering Spock also worked well, including his all-options approach to all situations (loved the Nimoy cameo, good premise). I've read some complaints that all three of the main characters were too typecast to TOS, but I didn't see it personally, mostly because my first Trek was TNG.

I, too, would like to see them avoid the Borg. NuTrek doesn't have anywhere near the established consistency to counterbalance it with the shock of an all-AI race. Heck, our own modern life sees that trope as passe. Even a militarized Starfleet didn't have the impact it did in the book (or in that TNG episode) because so far NuTrek has been good guy vs bad guy with no real exploration save the Indiana Jones knockoff sequence on doomsday planet. If they do the Borg, I hope they're either a misunderstood Geth-like race, or the Federation is so ready for them they kick the shit out of them or something unique.

BTW, I thought the comic established that the Narada the mining vessel was fitted with Borg components?

The only plot holes I couldn't forgive was that Marcus could beam his daughter off the Enterprise with shields up but couldn't do the same for Khan, and that Spock didn't tell Khan his crew was safe after he blew the Vengeance into near-inoperability. There's probably deleted scenes or something in the novelization or whatever. And everything else can be handwaved easily.

I was surprised to see Weller as Marcus. I thought he went full teacher. Finally looked him up on IMDB though...

[Khaldun]

One thing that still sticks with me as a source of intense dislike quite aside from all the stuff about Khan is still the idea that someone can beam from Earth to the Klingon Empire and that you can scan for a life form from Earth. That's not just a nitpick--it hits hard at the core idea of the show, that space is big, that the Enterprise is often on its own, that it can take days or longer to go between places. At least the proximity of Earth and Vulcan in the first reboot seemed sort of reasonable, but this just blows the whole thing to smithereens once and for all. I don't think there's a more fundamental part of Trek as a setting and it just plays absolutely zero role in Abrams' vision of it.

[Venkman]

Ah yea I was gonna do Speedy's post too, but mine already got too long.

Beaming to Kronos- they established that he used a transwarp transporter beam to get there, new fangle'd Geordi-style trek gear. I also wrote off the remote-scan thing as Marcus' making Kirk feel ok he's bombing Klingon's Sahara Desert. I don't actually know if he had scanned Kronos, or maybe I missed where he did?

And now onto more handwaving!


#1- Which space? Enterprise and Vengeance were on the very edge of the Neutral Zone iirc, not in orbit above Kronos. I assume the ship they used to disguise themselves as Smugglers (which was a wasted subplot opportunity) didn't make them seems as obvious enemy at first.
#2- see above.
#3- see above, they weren't in orbit.
#4- this one I totally agree with. It didn't bother me much though. I don't remember how many ships they had after the Narada took care of them, but it didn't seem like they had many at the Space Station either.
#5- Didn't bother me in Wrath of Khan either. In both cases it seemed like they just didn't plan on either ever having that problem, or only solving it by evacuating or ejecting the warp core or establishing a level infinite force field or whatever.
#6- I didn't mind the holodeck malfunctions at the time. The Moriarity ones were kinda fun.

[apocrypha]

Star Trek: Into The Darkness Of A Colour Palette Restricted Almost Entirely To Orange And Teal.

Seriously, WTF is this, space Oompa-Loompas underwater?

[Riggswolfe]

Star Trek: Into The Darkness Of A Colour Palette Restricted Almost Entirely To Orange And Teal.

Seriously, WTF is this, space Oompa-Loompas underwater?

I don't know if you've seen this before. I think I got this from a thread on here actually but it does explain the Orange and Teal stuff

http://theabyssgazes.blogspot.com/2010/03/teal-and-orange-hollywood-please-stop.html

[apocrypha]

Yeah I have seen that :)   I know why they do it, it's just got ridiculous now, way out of hand.

The two worst offenders I've seen recently were this and The Hobbit. The Hobbit was worse, there was almost no other colours in the entire film - some brief flashes of dark green foliage and some purple on some of the clothing. ST:ID was nearly as bad but had some yellow and red outfits at times.

There's a difference between increasing tonal contrast and eliminating ALL other colours from the palette.

[Samwise]

Beaming to Kronos- they established that he used a transwarp transporter beam to get there, new fangle'd Geordi-style trek gear.

Transwarp beaming means beaming between ships that are traveling at warp speed, not beaming between planets on opposite ends of the quadrant.  If you can beam between systems, why the fuck do you ever bother with spaceships?

[Merusk]

Space wizards.

[Khaldun]

Right--I mean, just beam the torpedos to the Klingon planet, you know where Khan is anyway since you can scan for him at that distance. I don't even mind a universe where there is 'transwarp beaming' as a regular thing, I just want it to not be a thing only for the five seconds that the plot requires it and then not a thing the rest of the time. Ditto the idea that the Enterprise can just warp to Klingon space in about five minutes and then back again--if that's true, the entirety of Starfleet should be able to be in Earth orbit from anywhere within five minutes and so the Enterprise and the USS Asshole Admiral shouldn't be duking it out in orbit all by their lonesome for more than a minute.

I know that Trek is famous for not paying attention to the consequences of technobabble plotlines for the overall continuity but this makes tachyon dispersal grids reconfigured out of the positronic sensor matrix look like bedrock consistency by comparison. When you make your characters able to do *anything* for the one minute that the plot finds it convenient to have them do anything and they make them able to do almost nothing when you have a set piece that requires it, you drain out anything remotely resembling dramatic tension. "Oh, don't worry, you didn't die because of magic blood this time, but YOU ARE IN DEADLY DANGER RIGHT NOW for reals because I'm fresh out of magic blood." "Captain, we won't get there in time to save Earth, it takes at least three parsecs to finish the Kessel Run, even though ten minutes ago we warped to the center of the Milky Way and back again!"

[jgsugden]

Reportedly, they attempted to clarify the technology issues in the movie, but those explanations all went on the cutting room floor.  Technobabble explnations was not the right option for this target audience. 

The problem with the ability to teleport anywhere in the universe was something they struggled to handle once they realized the full impact of introducing it in the first film.  After nerd rage pointed out the full impacts on Trek forums, it was something that informed the second film so that they could be consistent with prior Trek lore.  They wrote themselves into a corner and made it worse by trying to be loyal to the nerdiest ragiest minority - by adhering to something that 99.99% of Trek fans didn't know much about. 

[Teleku]

Just saw it yesterday.  Thought it was a good movie, holy god you people let such minor shit ruin you're fun.   

Yes, there were some plot holes and a few things I didn't like.  But nothing was to major, the acting was good, plot was fine, and it moved at a great pace.  I enjoyed it all the way through (it had good pacing) so nothing really spoiled it for me.  I am happy they set it up so the next movie will take place somewhere in deep space, however.

[Merusk]

Just saw it yesterday.  Thought it was a good movie, holy god you people let such minor shit ruin you're fun. 

you're

you're

you're

you're

 

[Teleku]

As long as the word I write makes the same sound when spoken, I consider it a victory.