Star Trek: Into Darkness

[Margalis]

The Borg are basically a force of nature, explaining how they came to be would likely diminish that.

[Tannhauser]

Did they ever establish that Trelane was a Q?

[Ironwood]

The books did.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I hate when movies/books/tv don't explain mysteries. I understand why some don't but god damn it if you took the time to develop this awesome monster/race/ancient civilization/etc I want to know more about it!  I know this is just me but damn it really gets me not being able to go deeper into lore and mythos.

[Khaldun]

Trek's lore doesn't really hold up if you look at it more deeply, though--it was never planned as a really consistent mythos.

[Samwise]

Yeah, I'm a pretty big lore geek, but that's not really what Trek is about.  Most of the "classic" TOS and TNG Trek episodes are one-offs where they encounter a new planet and/or species that has never been seen before and is never seen again.  The universe is really big.  That's why it feels kinda lazy to me to reuse the same characters and villains in all the movies.  I didn't much like it when Voyager and DS9 had constantly recurring villains, either.

[Ironwood]

Yeah, that was particularly retarded for Voyager, who were meant to be travelling massive distances.

DS9, at least you could see WHY it would happen.

[Samwise]

Yeah, that was particularly retarded for Voyager, who were meant to be travelling massive distances.

YUP.

I liked it okay in DS9 when the big villains were the Cardassians and there was all the cold war intrigue stuff.  Mostly because of Garak being amazing.  The Dominion stuff was horrible, though.

[Tannhauser]

Yeah, that was particularly retarded for Voyager, who were meant to be travelling massive distances.

YUP.

I liked it okay in DS9 when the big villains were the Cardassians and there was all the cold war intrigue stuff.  Mostly because of Garak being amazing.  The Dominion stuff was horrible, though.

YUP.

I watched a last season Voyager and there was the Kazon once again.  My thought was 'shit the Kazon were three years behind them'.

DS9 was the first Trek show I quit watching.  Got tired of the religious/Bajor stories and the passive nature of the Fed setup.  I do admit once they got the Defiance the show improved.  The last season was quite good and I enjoyed the Dominon War.

The Dominion sucked.  The aliens addicted to ketracel white were cool, but the Vorta(?) was too fawning to the Changelings who always seem bored. 

[Khaldun]

I thought on paper the Dominion were a really interesting 'other' to the Federation--a multispecies political alliance kept together by coercion, secrecy and the threat of violence as opposed to democracy, consensus and cooperation. It would have been more interesting if they'd really filled out the interrelationships between the 'bigs' of the Dominion, but it was basically Changelings + Jem'Hadar with everyone a sort of afterthought.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I can't agree more. The dominion was such a good excuse to see the opposite side of the coin to the federation, if anything they should have worked politically in the sort of "trains are running on time" way.  Instead we got worf and a battleship to go pew pew lazerz, cause space stations bore stupid people.

[Ratman_tf]

Would a borg "origin story" be so bad? They never really went in depth with them beyond being a scifi boogeyman.

I'm guessing you didn't watch much Voyager.

If they do use the Borg, I expect they'll fuse it together with V'ger.

Probably, that was a brainfart Roddenberry had years and years ago, even though V'Ger didn't resemble the Borg at all, and the tone and presentation of the machine planet dudes is vastly different from the Borg stories in TNG.

Aside from being about a machine race, (and the Borg are only partly machine) they're nothing alike and don't fit well together, IMO.

[Ratman_tf]

The books did.

And Darth Vader built C-3P0. Both Trek and Wars are pretty small worlds.

[ghost]

Saw this tonight.  I found myself, on several occasions, thinking that this was the best goddamned movie I've ever seen.

[Teleku]

Once more into the breech...

[Mosesandstick]

Into?

[Simond]

Would a borg "origin story" be so bad? They never really went in depth with them beyond being a scifi boogeyman.

I'm guessing you didn't watch much Voyager.

If they do use the Borg, I expect they'll fuse it together with V'ger.

Probably, that was a brainfart Roddenberry had years and years ago, even though V'Ger didn't resemble the Borg at all, and the tone and presentation of the machine planet dudes is vastly different from the Borg stories in TNG.

Aside from being about a machine race, (and the Borg are only partly machine) they're nothing alike and don't fit well together, IMO.

Borg Unimatrix dreadnaught-class vessel:


 

[Surlyboi]

And when it shows up, it gets that ST TMP V'Ger movie sting.

That said, in the apocrypha that is the comics about Nero during the 20-some-odd years he was cooling his heels waiting for Spock to show up, he supposedly takes the Narada and communes with V'Ger.

So… there's that.

[Tannhauser]

So, these are the voyages of the R.S.S. Neruda?

[UnSub]

And when it shows up, it gets that ST TMP V'Ger movie sting.

That said, in the apocrypha that is the comics about Nero during the 20-some-odd years he was cooling his heels waiting for Spock to show up, he supposedly takes the Narada and communes with V'Ger.

So… there's that.

Really? I thought the deleted scene was that he was handed over by the Romulans to the Klingons and had been in prison for 20 years.

Either way: bad scripting.

[Arthur_Parker]

...it was still better than EVERY FUCKING TREK MOVIE BEFORE THE REBOOT.
...
Whales? Fucking whales?!

I've seen every Trek movie and the Whale one is the only one I like.

[Merusk]

The whale one is the only one a LOT of people like, and had the highest gross of any ST film until JJ's reboot. Which is why I always have a laugh when peole rage about it.

[Arthur_Parker]

Maybe I went to far, I like the 1st reboot well enough, it's just the new one has me on a bit of downer.

[01101010]

The whale one is the only one a LOT of people like, and had the highest gross of any ST film until JJ's reboot. Which is why I always have a laugh when peole rage about it.

And was the least "Trek" of the lot, well...that lot.

[Arthur_Parker]

Least Trek I really don't see.  It told a fairly decent story with a good core message using SF, specifically time travel, and did it with good humour, all without having to have a bad guy.  It's probably the most confidently put together Trek film.

[Merusk]

If by "Trek" you mean "Kirk didn't fuck any green women and there were no pew-pew laser fights."  You're right!

As Arthur points out, it was a great sci-fi story in the mold of what old school sci-fi used to be.  There were plenty of TOS episodes it fits comfortably next to.

[Ironwood]

Least Trek I really don't see.  It told a fairly decent story with a good core message using SF, specifically time travel, and did it with good humour, all without having to have a bad guy.  It's probably the most confidently put together Trek film.

Yeah.

[01101010]

By least Trek I mean it was centered around Earth and a specific environmental conservation message that felt like the movie was just one huge PSA with Star Trek as the model. The movie was not about exploring strange new worlds or seeking out new life/civilizations or boldly going anywhere. It was a movie about Star Trek interacting with the world as we were living it (at that time). The Motion Picture had a super, alien constructed Voyager, II had well, Khan, III was getting Spock back from an artificial world, V had a journey to some planet with some fucked up alien, and 6 had Klingons. I think it did so well because it wasn't all Star Trek-ish and more people could relate to the time frame and the cause.

This is all my opinion and obviously I stand alone in it, but 4 just seemed like a gimmicky save the whales message with the crew of Star Trek sponsoring it, instead of a science fiction story about space exploration and conflict and moral dilemmas. So carry on....

[Arthur_Parker]

I can see your point.

But for me the best Trek episodes made you think and hope for the future, it was different after all, as it was a 60's tv show that had a Black lady and a Russian in very respected positions.

The City on the Edge of Forever was a good story, I can remember seeing it at about 6pm on BBC2 for the first time in the 80's, the Outer Limits may have had similar story lines, but wouldn't have had the same colour film appeal or time slot.

So I just saw IV as the crew encountering a particularly backward and paranoid race, it's still funny now, but during the 80's when the cold war was heating up again, Trek could still make you laugh and think, even the Russians must have seen some humour in it.

Chekov: [to a street cop] Excuse me, sir! Can you direct us to the naval base in Alameda? It's where they keep the nuclear wessels.
[He pauses, looks at Uhura, and tries again]
Chekov: *Nuclear wessels*

Or Scotty to the Apple Mac

Hello Computer

The best bits about the reboot movie were everything not involving the bad guy and the fuck stupid big ship, they had some time to introduce the characters.  There's very little good about the Reboot II, I really didn't like it at all.

[Ratman_tf]

And when it shows up, it gets that ST TMP V'Ger movie sting.

Blaster Beam!

[Ratman_tf]

Borg Unimatrix dreadnaught-class vessel:


 

Let me know when they can generate a twelfth power energy field. 

[Surlyboi]

And when it shows up, it gets that ST TMP V'Ger movie sting.

That said, in the apocrypha that is the comics about Nero during the 20-some-odd years he was cooling his heels waiting for Spock to show up, he supposedly takes the Narada and communes with V'Ger.

So… there's that.

Really? I thought the deleted scene was that he was handed over by the Romulans to the Klingons and had been in prison for 20 years.

Either way: bad scripting.

Well, the Klinks captured the Narada after the Kelvin rammed it and held Nero and the crew in Rura Penthe for 20-some-odd years. Then V'Ger sensed the Narada and called to it. The Narada broke free of the tractor fields holding it, beamed the crew aboard and headed for V'Ger. V'Ger then turned them away because it couldn't process Nero's anger.

Yeah.

[Ironwood]

Oh dear God.

[Surlyboi]

I know, it's like really bad fan fiction, but somebody actually published it.

[Merusk]

It's all been bad fan fiction since the late 90s.  I thought that was an agreed point.