I hit level 80... Now what?

[Zetor]

Pretty much what Modern Angel said. The endgame is not dissimilar to GW1 at all - if anything, you have MORE stuff to do. I wouldn't dream of going after the exploration titles in GW1 f'rex, but I'm definitely doing it in GW2.

In GW1 after finishing Prophecies (Apr 2005), you could
- play through it again with an alt
- farm gear (uber-looking armor, mainly) in underworld until your eyes bled; there weren't any dungeons or anything until Sorrow's Furnace was patched in a while later
- do one of the structured PVP formats (arguably the 'real' endgame, though only one of them - RA - was casual-friendly)

Factions (Apr 2006) added
- alliance battles, which was a REALLY weak version of RVR, semi-puggable
- Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry (casual PVP formats)
- more grind for kurzick/luxon gear and rep
- another high-end endgame zone

Nightfall (Oct 2006) added
- getting fancy-looking armor for your heroes
- some super-grindy titles you could 'rep farm'
- another high-end endgame zone

EOTN (Aug 2007) added
- repeatable dungeons
- more super-grindy titles
- hardmode versions of all existing zones/missions for $$$
- more of every farmable thing in general (heroes, armor)
- VERY late in the game's life you'd get 7 heroes in your group so you could solo most of the stuff listed above (because 3 heroes and 4 henchies was not enough in most cases, you needed at least one more person)

BTW, after finishing the main story, I'd say it's leaps and bounds above Prophecies, and I wouldn't put it (too far) below Factions / Nightfall either - neither of them had a really strong narrative to begin with. If I had to choose a 'best' story, I'd pick Factions -- Nightfall was basically the Prophecies/GW2 model of the world-eating big bad rehashed in a more interesting setting. EOTN was more of a melting pot of stories, some of them good, some of them (like the main Destroyer storyline) not so much.

I also listed the expansion dates above to indicate how freakin' fast they released expansions... which makes sense since it's the main revenue stream and all. I'm pretty skeptical about them making enough $ through the gem store, as I was able to get everything I needed by exchanging gold for gems.

[Kageru]

It's quite obvious once you get to level 25 or so that levels don't really mean much in the game.

If this is really their intention, then why have levels after 25 at all?  The grind to 80 seems superfluous.  Just leave it like GW1 and have it be a few levels to get your abilities and the rest of the world is just something else to do.  The 80 level cap seems like it's an attempt to cater to the traditional MMO crowd, but those gamers will see through it in a week or two and leave the game.  That's all fine and good if they are just after box sales.  If they're after RMT from gems, I think they're in for a disappointment.

Levels are about telling the story of a growth to power, and it works fine in this game. Zones that were scary at the start of the story become your tramping grounds once you've advanced. The difference of course is that they skip over "and every other zone becomes irrelevant". Plus you need those level for WvW.

Already seeing the push-back against their dungeon approach though. The achievers complaining that since there's no character progression in it there's zero reason to ever do it.

[Outlawedprod]

Re: I hit level 80... Now what?
Any insight, links, or thoughts appreciated.

You did it too soon.  Borderlands 2 doesn't come out until next week. I know I slay =p.

 Personally I'm just slowly clearing each map one at a time.  When I do find a puzzle quest I give those a shot.  I really like pirate one in Lion's Arch.  Queue  WvW  on high pop server and run that for several hours when I can get in.

[Tmon]

Hasn't the number of people who buy from the cash shop traditionally been very small anyway?  I sort of vaguely remember something like 5% spend money and that a small percentage who spend money spend lots of money.  I suspect that the guy who hits 80 in the first week isn't a prime cash shop customer anyway, but that there's a decent chance he'll buy the next expansion.

[Bzalthek]

Since there's no sub fee, I kinda expect that those who rush to 80 and wonder "what now" are not a valued subset of customers.  In fact, after they've bought the initial game they're just clogging up queues.  I don't expect them to come out and say something like that, but I also don't see them falling over themselves to retain the fotm crowd.

[Lakov_Sanite]

People who level to 30 after a few weeks are the fotm crowd, people who blast their way to 80 within the first month of release are the people they definitely want to keep.  You don't hit max level in games you don't like.

[Modern Angel]

Man, did Factions and Nightfall both come out the same year? That *is* fast.

I fully expect them to be cranking out expansions quickly. They were really fast before the emphasis shifted to GW2, and there was always an inkling that GW2 was going to be more the game they wanted to make all along. Don't be surprised to see one big content patch within four or five months and an expansion next year.

I generally like this story better than any of the others from GW1. The "military" jargon is awful and reads like my Twilight 2000 games when I was 14, but other than that, I found it enjoyable.

Re: levels, what to do, GW1. There's not really a functional difference between this and being level 20 throughout. This is just more elegantly implemented since it allows more granularity in zone gating, with a hefty helping of forward momentum for the leveler. There's not a strict endgame progression path, but that's okay. Leave, come back later. Keep playing and grind out that cute gear. Play PvP. They sincerely want you to play for either fun or for cosmetic rewards, and the lack of sub lets them do that.

[Kageru]

People who level to 30 after a few weeks are the fotm crowd, people who blast their way to 80 within the first month of release are the people they definitely want to keep.  You don't hit max level in games you don't like.

They're too expensive to keep happy, and so are safe to ignore.

[Sky]

People who level to 30 after a few weeks are the fotm crowd, people who blast their way to 80 within the first month of release are the people they definitely want to keep.  You don't hit max level in games you don't like.

I think you have that backwards. Nebu is a perfect example of the fotm mmo player. It's not a bad thing, he just goes in and gets what he wants out of the game and then moves on to something new.

Now, I could poke fun at thinking he's going to find that which he seeks, without realizing that he has already found it...

 

[Amaron]

People who level to 30 after a few weeks are the fotm crowd, people who blast their way to 80 within the first month of release are the people they definitely want to keep.  You don't hit max level in games you don't like.

They're too expensive to keep happy, and so are safe to ignore.

Not really.  They're happy to play far less per day as long as you restrict anyone from progressing further than them.  That's the entire point of raid lockouts and the like.

[01101010]

People who level to 30 after a few weeks are the fotm crowd, people who blast their way to 80 within the first month of release are the people they definitely want to keep.  You don't hit max level in games you don't like.

I think this has changed over the years. People have found it easier to blast their way through to max level that it is no longer the accomplishment it once was. Server first to max level is not all that inspiring anymore.

[Ingmar]

Man, did Factions and Nightfall both come out the same year? That *is* fast.

GW1 was supposed to be an expansion every 6 months. I'm not sure what caused them to dry up faster than planned.

[Nebu]

I think you have that backwards. Nebu is a perfect example of the fotm mmo player. It's not a bad thing, he just goes in and gets what he wants out of the game and then moves on to something new.

Now, I could poke fun at thinking he's going to find that which he seeks, without realizing that he has already found it...

 

I want a good PvP MMO.  Perhaps WoT is as good as it gets.  GW2 PvP is pretty terrible right now.  There's too much CC, poor class balance (Guardians, Rangers, and Mesmers are crazy OP), and no meaningful lateral advancement pathway.    GW2 PvP is like a bad FPS disguised in an MMO skin.

I'm hoping that they use the large number of players to do some serious balancing in the near future.  It's either that or PvP will devolve into a bunch of premades with a highly optimized team build... as you're already seeing in the tournaments. 

[Ingmar]

I am a little baffled by the too much CC thing. If anything I feel like I've been CCed less in GW2 than just about any PVP I've ever engaged in. But that's just WvW, I guess you are talking about Structured PVP?

[Zetor]

Man, did Factions and Nightfall both come out the same year? That *is* fast.

GW1 was supposed to be an expansion every 6 months. I'm not sure what caused them to dry up faster than planned.

I think GW2 was what caused them to dry up. I know they were making good progress with another expansion (Utopia), but ended up scrapping it and folding it back into EOTN.

Re CC - I don't think it's that bad in spvp either. OTOH there are definitely massive balancing issues - just as with any other MMO ever released. Those who played random arenas at yak's bend (the level 10-15 one) against flesh golem necros know what I'm talking about 

[Nevermore]

I am a little baffled by the too much CC thing. If anything I feel like I've been CCed less in GW2 than just about any PVP I've ever engaged in. But that's just WvW, I guess you are talking about Structured PVP?

Well, I know that by level 20 my warrior could single handedly chain together 6 stuns/knockdowns/dazes plus an immobilize if I just wanted to do a really annoying build.  Hell, add in Rampage at 30 for more knockdowns.  All this would probably have much less of an impact in WvW than in sPvP of course.

[Nightblade]

I am a little baffled by the too much CC thing. If anything I feel like I've been CCed less in GW2 than just about any PVP I've ever engaged in. But that's just WvW, I guess you are talking about Structured PVP?

in sPVP you have access to everything, including the boat loads of anti CC skills the game has. I swear about all the times I try my stuns / immobilizing stuff as a thief, it works about half the time because.

[Falconeer]

I am a little baffled by the too much CC thing. If anything I feel like I've been CCed less in GW2 than just about any PVP I've ever engaged in. But that's just WvW, I guess you are talking about Structured PVP?

I agree with this statement. Both Rift and SWTOR were insane for my tastes, even with the immunity timer. Here there's plenty of counters to the CCs, and they are short anyway (both the CCs and the counters).

[Nebu]

Do any of you play a cloth caster?  Snares = death and the abundance of ranged snares far outnumber the availability of purges in this game.  I can live with melee snares as it's my fault if I let a melee get near me. 

[Modern Angel]

I think GW2 was what caused them to dry up. I know they were making good progress with another expansion (Utopia), but ended up scrapping it and folding it back into EOTN.

That's exactly what happened.

[Redgiant]

GW2 looks great, and has sufficiently epic art designs and ideas.

But ...

The game just exhausts me to play it for any length of time. I can't remember a game (not AION, not WAR, not RIFT, not SWTOR) where I literally would up and close the game window after maybe an hour, two hours tops. Then I would do something else, and maybe later the same day or the next day start it again, only to have the same result.

A large part of my trouble playing it is there is just no motivation to me for anything I do, nothing I am working towards, no social or game systems to make me feel progression or advancement. And all the front-loaded gimme's (lvl 80 WvW, all skills known by lvl 10) just trades early premature gratification for longevity, so even leveling isn't a carrot.

Not quite sure why all this is, it just is for me.

[Modern Angel]

Without casting any judgments about the right way to have fun in video games, I find the downhearted reactions to this fascinating to read. Not because GW2 is the Holy Grail of games, but because the complaints are specifically about things which we (and by we I mean jaded MMOers of the sort which populate f13 and other sites like it) claim we wanted. The lack of the Trinity, the lack of a gear based endgame... ostensibly, a game which wants us to play just because we think it's fun and not play when we think it's not, rather than adding carrots to keep us on perpetually, is EXACTLY what we've claimed we've wanted.

[Nebu]

Without casting any judgments about the right way to have fun in video games, I find the downhearted reactions to this fascinating to read. Not because GW2 is the Holy Grail of games, but because the complaints are specifically about things which we (and by we I mean jaded MMOers of the sort which populate f13 and other sites like it) claim we wanted. The lack of the Trinity, the lack of a gear based endgame... ostensibly, a game which wants us to play just because we think it's fun and not play when we think it's not, rather than adding carrots to keep us on perpetually, is EXACTLY what we've claimed we've wanted.

- I don't want gear based progression.  I want skill-based, lateral progression (i.e. PvP success leads to a wider selection of abilities or alternate abilities).  

- I'm fine without the trinity as long as the dungeons and content are balanced around the lack of a trinity.  By 'balanced' I mean that I don't need to run in giant circles every time I fight a mob.  

GW2 is great for explorers.  For killers and achievers it's lacking.  I've said on many occasions that I want a solid PvP MMO.  I assumed that GW2 would learn from the errors of GW1 in their pvp implementation.  I was wrong.  

I've also learned from this thread that my assumptions about the game past level 80 are correct.  Which makes me feel less insane... so thanks for that.

[Ingmar]

Without casting any judgments about the right way to have fun in video games, I find the downhearted reactions to this fascinating to read. Not because GW2 is the Holy Grail of games, but because the complaints are specifically about things which we (and by we I mean jaded MMOers of the sort which populate f13 and other sites like it) claim we wanted. The lack of the Trinity, the lack of a gear based endgame... ostensibly, a game which wants us to play just because we think it's fun and not play when we think it's not, rather than adding carrots to keep us on perpetually, is EXACTLY what we've claimed we've wanted.

I think you're making way too many assumptions about how many people - and probably which people - are in that "we" you've got there.

I'm not suggesting you do this, because god, boring, but I bet if you compiled a big list of people on f13 who have gone on and on about wanting to get rid of the trinity and gear-based progression, etc., and then cross-checked it against the people who have complaints about GW2, there's be relatively little overlap.

EDIT: One thing I find funny is that Nebu hates the PVP, whereas for me this is exactly what I ever always wanted in a 'new' RVR, from what I've been able to play so far, despite us both being from a DAOC background and wanting 'fixed' RVR. All my complaints lie elsewhere, but the RVR is the real deal I think. Point being it just goes to show that our tastes on this stuff, even when it seems like two of us might agree in general terms, are really granular.

[kildorn]

The raid play and yadda aren't exactly what I see a lot of complaints about: Primarily the complaint is people who want constant progression (that carrot) that contains stat differences/gameplay differences. GW2 does not have that, by design. The game is very specifically not attempting to cater to that demographic. If you fall into it, you're not going to enjoy this game.

Which is fine, and has little to do with the clusterfuck that is Ascalonian Catacombs as an introduction to their group content design. Basically, all progression in GW2 after a short time (level 30 or so) is either more options (not in spvp) or fancy looking stuff. Personally the lack of a power curve in pvp is my holy grail (no resil gear, no tiered gear, just fancy looking shit as rewards for gameplay) which will absolutely not appeal to everyone.

My complaints with the endgame pve wise is that dungeon group finding is kind of a pain in the ass (the instances are in lower level zones, with no global LFG kind of stuff), and that the Orr zones need some method of a hard reset to make the invasions fun things to join in on.

[Sky]

Without casting any judgments about the right way to have fun in video games, I find the downhearted reactions to this fascinating to read. Not because GW2 is the Holy Grail of games, but because the complaints are specifically about things which we (and by we I mean jaded MMOers of the sort which populate f13 and other sites like it) claim we wanted. The lack of the Trinity, the lack of a gear based endgame... ostensibly, a game which wants us to play just because we think it's fun and not play when we think it's not, rather than adding carrots to keep us on perpetually, is EXACTLY what we've claimed we've wanted.

Sorry, I agree with you 100% 

[tazelbain]

So Nebu are you now going to finally stop trying force yourself to play a game you don't like?

[Nebu]

So Nebu are you now going to finally stop trying force yourself to play a game you don't like?

I like to give games a chance to capture my imagination.  Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't.  I'll keep playing games and likely keep being critical of them.  I don't see what the issue is.  GW2 was well worth the box cost and I have no regrets for playing it.  I just see it as another game that didn't appeal to my niche tastes.   Still, it was well worth the price of admission.  It's a decent value at $60.  I'll likely level another character in the future when I'm between games. 

For now, I'm just messing with tournament PvP and build tweaking to see if I can squeeze a month out of the game.  If not, it has still been a good run.

[murdoc]

In a lot of ways, this is the MMO I've been wanting and can see me playing it longer than any game I had an actual subscription for.

[Furiously]

My only complaint would be the lack of decent looking female medium armors.

[Sjofn]

Without casting any judgments about the right way to have fun in video games, I find the downhearted reactions to this fascinating to read. Not because GW2 is the Holy Grail of games, but because the complaints are specifically about things which we (and by we I mean jaded MMOers of the sort which populate f13 and other sites like it) claim we wanted. The lack of the Trinity, the lack of a gear based endgame... ostensibly, a game which wants us to play just because we think it's fun and not play when we think it's not, rather than adding carrots to keep us on perpetually, is EXACTLY what we've claimed we've wanted.

My major complaint, I think, is the whole lack-of-trinity thing, but I've never been one of the people who thinks the trinity is The Devil (probably because I like healing and tanking). There ARE ways to muck around with it (CoX ... <sniff>), and I am totally open to the idea, but GW2's way of doing it sort of sucks.

On the other hand, I have never, ever been an explorer. I like doing all the quests in a zone or whatever, but I never wander about aimlessly. Except in GW2. So I give them a big internet cookie for that, because they've managed to make that interesting for me. I've done far, far more aimless wandering in this game than in anything since my original MUD - and generally if I was wandering there, it was because I got lost. 

[Lakov_Sanite]

See, the whole Idea of weapon swapping would have been perfect for making the trinity work and be seamless.  Just have healing weapon sets/tanking set and dps sets. Such that you could even switch from healing to tanking or dps on the fly.

[kildorn]

See, the whole Idea of weapon swapping would have been perfect for making the trinity work and be seamless.  Just have healing weapon sets/tanking set and dps sets. Such that you could even switch from healing to tanking or dps on the fly.

Meh. You have to design fights around that, and still wind up with "we want two dedicated healers, three swap healers.." and such. Plus you wind up with the people who just don't want to do the roles. WoW does a fine job of letting you swap specs if you have a group that needs a tank for example. But people still don't DO it, because they don't want to tank/heal.

GW2 just needs a somewhat less random combat system for it's group dynamics to work (as far as who has threat/who gets what ability tossed at them), and a bit of clarity around what just hit you for how much damage and why. There's a decent amount of "why did that centaur suddenly go from hitting me for 200 to one shotting me?"

[Zetor]

Well, (small) group combat CAN work even without a tank or healer, but you need to 'hold all the cards', so to say -- and it requires a lot more cooperation than can be expected of a pug. Weakness/chill/blind/protection/aegis/vigor are all huge survivability boosters. You can do some impressive healing by comboing off water fields, but the elementalist can't do it alone. You need to swap in control-heavy utilities/weapons for trash, and single-target / survivability stuff for bosses. Etc. Thing is, this'd be fine for hardmodes (explorables), but for story mode dungeons... ehhh. Though other than AC, they aren't THAT hard (I've pugged a few of them already, including the level 76-ish 'honor of the waves' one).

This isn't entirely dissimilar to making group builds for TSW dungeons, by the way (you need someone to apply weakness, you need someone being able to purge/interrupt, etc. in addition to the dedicated tank and healer).

[kildorn]

My complaint with the dungeons is pretty much entirely AC being a terrible introduction and the worst design of them. The rest of them I've done haven't been nearly as death-zergy or dumb mechanics and HP sponge minibosses.