I hit level 80... Now what?

[Falconeer]

I don't get the criticism to PvP.

As a PvP lover myself, and being PvP the first thing I look for in a multiplayer game, I got to say that I think GW2 is a great PvP game. Sure, my favourite kind of PvP is still Felucca Ultima Online, full loot, no safe zones and all that stuff. You can look at EVE too, or even Age of Conan on a PvP server.

But that not being possible, I love what Guild Wars 2 offers me. I won't even go that deep into WvW, I think that's just insanely good. ALL they need to add is the meta game, stuff that really makes you care for the outcome, and stuff that helps people organizing. WvW to me is just fantastic and 100% what I've been wanting to play since and after DAoC.

But I like the concept of sPvP a lot too. I like the pace of the fight, I like the fairness of it, and I like the very high skill roof (ceiling?.. ) as opposed to other MMORPGs. I like the very short CC skills, I like the limited stealth options, and I like the huge amount of possible specs and builds that all seem to have a weakness or a specific setup that counters them. Some tweaking and fixing and rebalancing is still needed, but things are surprisingly functional for a game that has just launched. I like that there are no immortal healers and I like that the game doesn't revolve around them. To improve here we need more and better maps, and the "structured" part of "s"PvP (rakings, ladders, tournaments and more game modes) but the groundwork is there for me.

I understand that it does not play like any other game of this kind, so it's really confusing and unfun at first. Seriously, wasting a long cooldwn on someone who just got out of my LOS, or dodged is infuriating at first. Whoa. But if you stick around long enough to have complexity of the "counter" system sink into you, and give your eye-hand coordination enough time to adjust to the new kind of combat, I think what we have is possibly (jury still out) the frame for the best PvP MMORPG.  

Sure, as I keep repeating PvP needs more meta-content to become perfect, but I can already see the foundation of what is going *the* (non-sandbox) PvP MMO for the next many years. At least for me.

So while your mileage may vary, I think Guild Wars 2 pvp is really really good.

In closing, I don't even care about comparing it to GW1 PvP. The combat was the dullest thing ever there for me, so as good as the metagame was, it just wasn't my kind of game. I can only assume the same will be true here for some of those who liked the first.

[Modern Angel]

My complaint with the dungeons is pretty much entirely AC being a terrible introduction and the worst design of them. The rest of them I've done haven't been nearly as death-zergy or dumb mechanics and HP sponge minibosses.

This is truth. There are spots in the others which are just obviously wrong (fuck you golem boss, fuck you pull in/PBAoE mobs), but nothing approaches AC levels. That's a damned shame, too, because AC is one of the most interesting in terms of lore and aesthetics for a GW1 player. When I saw all the old class trainers from Pre-Searing Ascalon as bosses, I cheered.

PvP I'm cool with. I would like to have Randoms be like GW1; someone gave the rundown of that very well in another thread. And repair bills in WvW need. to. fucking. go. Other than that, I'm pretty content. Oh, I want Guild Halls and GvG again. I lived for GvG.

[KallDrexx]

And repair bills in WvW need. to. fucking. go.

Christ yes.  Between not noticing loot bags because I was fighting most of the time, and the huge repair bill I paid over and over again it's quite discouraging.

[Modern Angel]

Thanks for reminding me about the WvW marks. Those need to go automagically into your bags.

It's bizarre to me that the same company which rethought things like inventory UI from the ground up missed some obvious issues in PvP which were solved years ago.

[Miasma]

I was amazed when I found out you took repair damage for dying in PvP, that is horrible.  It has actually stopped me from upgrading my yellow armor to orange, it already costs 1.6 silver every time I die.  Arenanet really loves those gold sinks, probably because of the gem market.  And oranges don't really seem that much stronger than yellow, about ten stat points and ten more defense per piece and the items cost 2-3 gold instead of 20-40 silver.

I finished off my last heart yesterday so I'm done that, 301/301.  I need to complete the three Orr zones in the south and do my terrible personal story quest.  Then all the shinies will be mine and I can start PvPing.

I hear the best way to make money at 80 is doing Citadel of Flame explore mode.  People claim 25 silver for twenty minutes of work but then use what I have learned is a huge caveat, the group has to "know what it's doing".

[tazelbain]

Still the gold sinks are minor.  It more than about preserving the economy.  They don't want to go the way on D3. 

[Modern Angel]

What do we get for 100% completion, anyway?

[Nebu]

What do we get for 100% completion, anyway?

Fun? 

[Falconeer]

What do we get for 100% completion, anyway?

Fun? 

Awesomely played.

[Miasma]

If anyone is cheap like me you can save the 4s each stack and buy the blue Orichalum gathering sickles and axes from karma vendors in the Orr zones.  No I was not forward thinking enough to write down which vendors.  I still need to find a pick karma vendor.  I don't really see much else to spend my karma on.  There are some orange items but they are 40-50k each and seem no better than what I could buy with gold.

[Nebu]

I don't get the criticism to PvP.

I think my issue is that I want to like the pvp, but it is still very flawed.  Weapon sets based on GTAE are easily avoided so long as you don't get caught in choke points.  The class balance needs some serious work... this is particularly obvious in tournament pvp.  If my team is in a tournament, I can reliably predict the outcome based on the team build of the opponents.  Sure, we could get together and plan a detailed ability map and class build for our 5 man team, but that seems like it shouldn't be necessary in a well-balanced game.  We play more for fun than for the win, but some classes are easily worth two players of another class.  Guardians and mesmers are a tad ridiculous in pvp right now, for example.  

WvW has its own issues.  Grief building, having to loot corpses, slideshow lag in fortress encounters, repair builds, and the inability to generate a reputation due to the rapid turnover of opponents being among my chief complaints.  WvW also feels too much like PvE to me... which may be a friendly way to encourage people to become involved, but lacks the punch that a game like DAoC had.  The only thing I fear in WvW is the long run back from the spawn point...

What class(es) do you play primarily in pvp?  Are you over rank 30 yet?  

[murdoc]

I just really want deathspam.

[Falconeer]

slideshow lag in fortress encounters

I am rushing out at the moment so expect a more meaningful post later, but I wantes to quote that one thing from your post as it doesn't happen for me. If anything, I am so incredibly impressed with the engine they pulled off considering that my computer is three years old and with about 200 players on screen I don't drop 1 fps in keep assaults. I have no idea how they achieved that, but they did. So it must be your computer, or their optimization for your hardware, but in WvW no matter how many million players I had on screen so far I never had a single slowdown. Which is crazy but true.

[Modern Angel]

Same, except I have a five year old machine. I am constantly floored at how well the game performs.

[Ingmar]

slideshow lag in fortress encounters

I am rushing out at the moment so expect a more meaningful post later, but I wantes to quote that one thing from your post as it doesn't happen for me. If anything, I am so incredibly impressed with the engine they pulled off considering that my computer is three years old and with about 200 players on screen I don't drop 1 fps in keep assaults. I have no idea how they achieved that, but they did. So it must be your computer, or their optimization for your hardware, but in WvW no matter how many million players I had on screen so far I never had a single slowdown. Which is crazy but true.

Yeah the only thing I've had lag out and die on me is sound, of all things. Graphically it has been rock solid.

Nebu: on the needing to do a specific build for an spvp team, etc. - that is, I suspect, exact what you're supposed to be doing in spvp. That's how Gw1 worked, it's why they give you fully unlocked everything on your spvp character, etc. It's all about the metagame and countering popular builds etc.

What there doesn't seem to be is a casual BG format with progression a la WoW, I guess, so yeah if that is what you want then that makes sense.

[MediumHigh]

I don't get the criticism to PvP.

I think my issue is that I want to like the pvp, but it is still very flawed.  Weapon sets based on GTAE are easily avoided so long as you don't get caught in choke points.  The class balance needs some serious work... this is particularly obvious in tournament pvp.  If my team is in a tournament, I can reliably predict the outcome based on the team build of the opponents.  Sure, we could get together and plan a detailed ability map and class build for our 5 man team, but that seems like it shouldn't be necessary in a well-balanced game.  We play more for fun than for the win, but some classes are easily worth two players of another class.  Guardians and mesmers are a tad ridiculous in pvp right now, for example.  

Wait what? That's exactly what is required in a well-balanced game. Strategy, planning, going in there with your own setup while considering theirs. I can understand if your saying it's just rock paper scissors, but your not making that argument. Your merely saying I want to run in with a random group of classes and skill set ups that have nothing to do with each other and expect to profit. Not saying nothing wrong with the game balance wise, but still the game is much deeper than assist train on target cloth armor.

[Nebu]

So why does my NVidia 460 come to a crawl (at the lowest graphics settings) every time I come to a keep take?

Grrrr.  

Wait what? That's exactly what is required in a well-balanced game. Strategy, planning, going in there with your own setup while considering theirs. I can understand if your saying it's just rock paper scissors, but your not making that argument. Your merely saying I want to run in with a random group of classes and skill set ups that have nothing to do with each other and expect to profit. Not saying nothing wrong with the game balance wise, but still the game is much deeper than assist train on target cloth armor.

I'm saying that any 5 classes should be able to beat any 5 other classes with skill being the primary factor... and that's just not the case right now.  Some classes have a huge advantage in pvp. 

[Ingmar]

Building the right team for the current meta is skill, though. Much like say a constructed MtG tournament. There's a deck building element involved which it sounds like is the part you don't like. Probably the checks and balances aren't totally right yet, but everything should have a counter. When something becomes dominant a counter build should rise up etc.

[MediumHigh]

So why does my NVidia 460 come to a crawl (at the lowest graphics settings) every time I come to a keep take?

Grrrr.  

Wait what? That's exactly what is required in a well-balanced game. Strategy, planning, going in there with your own setup while considering theirs. I can understand if your saying it's just rock paper scissors, but your not making that argument. Your merely saying I want to run in with a random group of classes and skill set ups that have nothing to do with each other and expect to profit. Not saying nothing wrong with the game balance wise, but still the game is much deeper than assist train on target cloth armor.

I'm saying that any 5 classes should be able to beat any 5 other classes with skill being the primary factor... and that's just not the case right now.  Some classes have a huge advantage in pvp.  

Think of GW as a card game and less like a fps with different flavors of guns and base stats for character classes. There is deck building involved, its just highly limited to make the game easier for Anet to ignore balancing since the players don't have 100% control. Otherwise the whining will be 20000000 pages long because some players are smart enough to build the "I win deck" regardless of the number of skills Anet nerfs to the ground.

[Nebu]

Think of GW as a card game and less like a fps with different flavors of guns and base stats for character classes.

I think this is good advice.  I loved playing in 'virgin deck' tournaments in MtG but hated playing with built decks.  I'd much rather see who can do the most with the tools they have.  Perhaps this is why I do VERY well in 8v8 random pvp in GW2 and my tourney team gets routed.  Ok that and my team lacks a dedicated mesmer and guardian right now.

I do understand the counters.  My necro is the counter to a guardian, but it's not balanced.  A guardian will always get the better of me even if I outplay them and that's precisely what irritates me. 

[MediumHigh]

Think of GW as a card game and less like a fps with different flavors of guns and base stats for character classes.

I think this is good advice.  I loved playing in 'virgin deck' tournaments in MtG but hated playing with built decks.  I'd much rather see who can do the most with the tools they have.  Perhaps this is why I do VERY well in 8v8 random pvp in GW2 and my tourney team gets routed.  Ok that and my team lacks a dedicated mesmer and guardian right now.

I do understand the counters.  My necro is the counter to a guardian, but it's not balanced.  A guardian will always get the better of me even if I outplay them and that's precisely what irritates me. 

Think less your countering classes and think more your countering skills. I mean there are two ways to beat someone in a properly balanced card game. One is to hit rock to their scissors every time, two is to pick out what you can handle about their deck and be prepared to counter. I would suggest looking all the skills in the game if you really want to advance tournament wise. Also know that its not just "your" skill bar out there, you have 4 other people with 5 skills they have freedom to select themselves. That's 25 skills verse 1 bar of 10.

[Threash]

I think not having the required class shouldn't be a problem when you can be any class without having to level or farm gear.  FOTM is gonna happen no matter what unless all the classes are utterly simplistic, if anything the problem is you aren't kicking ass playing the class you want.  Also you can't build a reputation because you don't see the names of opponents in WvW, just "servername invader".  What is "death spam"?

[Nebu]

What is "death spam"?

A global announcement that THREASH KILLED NEBU!!!! OMGWTFBBQ!

[Threash]

Oh i liked that in Shadowbane, i made a character named SnooSnoo specifically because of it.  Like i said though, GW2 WvW doesn't even have character names.

[Ingmar]

DAOC didn't either. The death spam struck a nice balance between the anonymity of the other side in the actual combat, while giving you something to learn about the other team and bring into the all important forum warfare.

[Sjofn]

Yeah, the names over your opponents basically told you what realm they were from and kiiiinda what realm rank they were (if I remember right). You only started to learn names of the other side because of death spam (and also emoting to people after they died <3).

I even liked it for the mobs. Seeing 15 lines of "Soandso was just killed by Chthonic Knight Ukobat!" happen in about 3 seconds was always a good time.

[ezrast]

So why does my NVidia 460 come to a crawl (at the lowest graphics settings) every time I come to a keep take?

Grrrr.

Probably because graphics aren't the problem. I started monitoring my GPU stats in WvW; turns out GPU usage gets cut in half and my card actually cools down by about 10 degrees in large group fights. Meanwhile CPU usage sits at 60-70% no matter where I am (I presume the only reason it's not at 90-100% is because the game is running on only three cores). Pretty sure the game is mostly CPU-bound.

Those saying you have no slowdown in WvW, I'd love to hear what CPUs you have.

[Fordel]

Yeah, the names over your opponents basically told you what realm they were from and kiiiinda what realm rank they were (if I remember right). You only started to learn names of the other side because of death spam (and also emoting to people after they died <3).

I even liked it for the mobs. Seeing 15 lines of "Soandso was just killed by Chthonic Knight Ukobat!" happen in about 3 seconds was always a good time.

Like so:



What Nebu wants is to take his gank group and farm Albs at AMG.

[Ingmar]

So why does my NVidia 460 come to a crawl (at the lowest graphics settings) every time I come to a keep take?

Grrrr.

Probably because graphics aren't the problem. I started monitoring my GPU stats in WvW; turns out GPU usage gets cut in half and my card actually cools down by about 10 degrees in large group fights. Meanwhile CPU usage sits at 60-70% no matter where I am (I presume the only reason it's not at 90-100% is because the game is running on only three cores). Pretty sure the game is mostly CPU-bound.

Those saying you have no slowdown in WvW, I'd love to hear what CPUs you have.

Intel® Core™ i7-2600 Processor (4x 3.40GHz/8MB L3 Cache) (liquid cooled if it matters)

[Falconeer]

Intel Core i5 CPU - 750@2.67 GHz

[kildorn]

I have an i7 920 (2.67ghz) with no slowdown aside from an odd chug if I zone in and out of Divinity's Reach a bunch.

You shouldn't have video card issues in WvW due to the excessive culling they do (fuck that culling code, in the ear), but I'd be curious if you have a slow drive or something odd keeping new textures from being loaded quickly.

[Furiously]

Yea character culling is a big pain.

[ajax34i]

How much VRAM on the video card would be my first question.

[ezrast]

A gig, but VRAM usage never went above half either.

I still blame my processor (2.5 GhZ Phenom X4 9850). Going to go out on a limb and guess that Nebu is using AMD as well?

[Nebu]

Pentium dual core E5300 2.6 GHz.  I'm guessing this is the issue.  My cpu gets slammed in WvW to the point that I'm unable to play at all.