Pre-load 5.0.4 Live

[luckton]

Aside from a couple outdated addons (which I was too lazy to manually update myself, rather just wait for the Curse app to get the update signal), everything ran smoothly for me last night.  Executed my patch plans without a hitch (reforge my tank and DPS sets to be in line with the new hit/exp rating, get new talents, write new glyphs in, setup addons that were working), and ran a few HoT dungeons with my guildies.

As far as tanking with my DK goes, I'm good to go.  With the right talents chosen, my rotation is incredibly simplified so that I can focus on other things.  All I ever wanted was Runic Corruption for Blood tanking, and not only did I get that, but Crimson Scourge and Rolling Blood?  Fucking gravy.

[Lucas]

Guess I'll have to jump in again: WoW has now been fully localized in italian, and they also opened two italian realms (took them long enough :P) 

[Merusk]

The amount of QQ about everything on the forums is fascinating.  While I had my own issues with the talent system changes, once I actually was able to play with it I became a fan.  The vocal minority, however, are crying up a huge storm as if this was sudden and hadn't been announced ages ago.

My favorite thread, however, is still the one from the few "Melee Hunters" that were still out there, raging that Wingclip and Raptor strike were removed.     I thought those people finally went away back in the WOTLK days.

[luckton]

The one thing I will agree with Hunters on is that ranged weapons don't get displayed on your character unless you're actually shooting something.  The vanity aspect of having a cool looking polearm or a couple of matching axes on the hip did give them some flair.  Unfortunately it's not something they can easily address because some ranged weapons just look outright retarded if they strapped them to the backs of their toon while idle.

As far as gameplay goes though, yeah, melee Hunters were silly.  They were barely viable in vanilla because Bliz was still young and stupid in trying to make some niches work.

[Merusk]

No, they display on your back now (I'm transitioning back to hunter from DK, so I'm playing my old main right now. They got a lot more nifty toys and buffs in Cata and the new talents than DKs)

There's still some bugs where they go invisible after zoning, but once it's unsheathed and resheathed after combat it shows on your back.   The only ones that look goofy are the oversized crossbows.

[VainEldritch]

Seems the new LFR auto-loot assignment is based on class but cannot "see" if a player already has the item (or a better version of the same) and awards it anyway…

 

[luckton]

Seems the new LFR auto-loot assignment is based on class but cannot "see" if a player already has the item (or a better version of the same) and awards it anyway…

 

Are you saying you're not enjoying your new Soviet WoW gameplay?  I'm sure some comrades can show up to fix that. 

[Rokal]

There's still some bugs where they go invisible after zoning, but once it's unsheathed and resheathed after combat it shows on your back.   The only ones that look goofy are the oversized crossbows.

I cycled through a couple bows/guns on my hunter and to me they all look pretty awkward hanging from your back.

It'll probably get better as we approach 90 and they have designed bows/guns with this in mind.

[Merusk]

*shrug*  My reforged Epic Quest bow looks awesome, and the old Ancient Bone Bow looked all right to me as well.  It's a bow, after all, not a 2h sword.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Seems the new LFR auto-loot assignment is based on class but cannot "see" if a player already has the item (or a better version of the same) and awards it anyway…

 

It was my understanding though that loot was individual so that you getting a piece doesn't negate someone else getting it. If that's the case then getting a duplicate shouldn't matter

[Merusk]

Yes.  Loot is per individual.  The only way you can get fucked is if there's 2 drops you want off a boss and you keep getting the one you already have.  But that's no different than the time my guild got shaman drops off of some Serpentshrine boss 7 fucking weeks in a row.

[luckton]

Aye, RNG is RNG, and as far as match-made insta-raids go, this system makes RNG about as fair as it's going to get since it's taken the manipulation by players completely out of the picture.

[Ingmar]

And frankly there have been lots of times where I've wanted 2 copies of an item - to enchant them differently, for example.

[cmlancas]

Played my shadow priest last night and ran an HOT for funsies.  While I outgear the content by a large margin (399 in my OS), shadow priests feel very buffed.  I like that I feel more like a Cata Destro warlock while not having to manage as many buttons.

Also, shadow orbs actually matter now, so that's a fun minigame too.

Disc priest also feels awesome-- the int changes make me heals hit for a ton (in the neighborhood of a 95k crit unbuffed).  True test will be DS on Friday.  But, that being said, spirit shell made it easier for me to stack up giant absorbs on people more quickly, which I bet will be extremely effective on lots of the DS bossfights.

Played some destro lock as well with my girlfriend.  While I thought the changes were more in line with what destro shouod feel like, she wasn't crazy about the changes because she likes playing a DOT class.  Destro plays more like fire mage now.  That being said, she's going to try out affliction tonight, which should play more like Cata destro.

Oh, and hunter expertise isn't so bad.  With the new stat weights, my 398 hunter has close to 40% crit unbuffed.  40%!

[caladein]

Seems the new LFR auto-loot assignment is based on class but cannot "see" if a player already has the item (or a better version of the same) and awards it anyway…

 

Yeah, figured as much.  Still, loot isn't about giving you loot, it's about giving you a reasonable expectation that you'll get loot in the future .

Also, I totally loved Glyph of Raptor Strike during Dragon Soul so I'm kind of sad to see it gone. Small price to pay for min range to bite it, especially with how non-nonsensical hitboxes have become.

[SurfD]

Seems the new LFR auto-loot assignment is based on class but cannot "see" if a player already has the item (or a better version of the same) and awards it anyway…

 

Yeah, figured as much.  Still, loot isn't about giving you loot, it's about giving you a reasonable expectation that you'll get loot in the future .

Does this mean that in the case of Deathwing (for example) who only drops weapons, a feral druid who wins loot has a basicly 100% chance of always getting the Feral polearm, since none of the other DW weapons are applicable to feral?

[luckton]

Seems the new LFR auto-loot assignment is based on class but cannot "see" if a player already has the item (or a better version of the same) and awards it anyway…

 

Yeah, figured as much.  Still, loot isn't about giving you loot, it's about giving you a reasonable expectation that you'll get loot in the future .

Does this mean that in the case of Deathwing (for example) who only drops weapons, a feral druid who wins loot has a basicly 100% chance of always getting the Feral polearm, since none of the other DW weapons are applicable to feral?

If you win the roll, then yes.

In other news, cross-realm Battletag raiding seems to be working just fine, eh Merusk? 

[Paelos]

I Resubbed yesterday. Man I am shitty at this game now with all the changes and a year off

[Merusk]

In other news, cross-realm Battletag raiding seems to be working just fine, eh Merusk? 

Yes, yes it does.  It was even more seamless than LFR.  Nice system.

[Fabricated]

I kinda fucking hate how they changed warrior tanking. It just feels wrong.

[SurfD]

I kinda fucking hate how they changed warrior tanking. It just feels wrong.

Yeah.  Bear is really wierd also.

Having only 3 things to spend rage on (More dodge, A self heal, or Maul) is bizzare.  The new vengeance scaling also does some really wierd shit.  Like simply Surviving an imaple on Deathwing pretty much means my next Frenzied Regen is going to heal me to Full HP.

[Fabricated]

It just feels dumb. It's like a super cool-down management mini-game now. Generating threat is an afterthought and you just fuckin mash like 3-4 buttons, but you better know when the big hits are coming because all your big-ticket mitigation skills are on CDs and require tons of rage. I can figure it out but it's going to be way more difficult for people to learn how to tank properly. A newbie tank will be able to grab all the mobs and hold them, then die over and over because they don't understand exactly when to use all of our now like half-dozen super-samey mitigation skills.

[Ironwood]

Yeah.

This is all kinds of shit, actually.  I have a char of every class and the only one that seems to have actually improved or been made more fun is the Rogue.

What.  The.  Fuck.

[luckton]

It's like a super cool-down management mini-game now. Generating threat is an afterthought and you just fuckin mash like 3-4 buttons, but you better know when the big hits are coming because all your big-ticket mitigation skills are on CDs and require tons of rage. I can figure it out but it's going to be way more difficult for people to learn how to tank properly. A newbie tank will be able to grab all the mobs and hold them, then die over and over because they don't understand exactly when to use all of our now like half-dozen super-samey mitigation skills.

Then Bliz is making progress on their goal for tanking.  They wanted Warriors, Paladins, and the new Monks to take a more active role in their mitigation and/or recovery from hits in tanking, much like how Druids and DKs have been doing it since their full inceptions.  They didn't want passive/auto-tanking anymore from having full combat table coverage that Warriors and Paladins could achieve through maxing out block, parry, and dodge (thus why they also moved to a two-roll hit system the break that shit as well).

I'm sure they'll continue to tweak the numbers and such, even after launch.  Keep in mind too that every raid and dungeon encounter up to this point has always been designed with the old one-roll full CTC passive tanking design in mind.  The MoP stuff is going to reflect the new active mit changes.  That said, don't expect the active mit stuff to go away anytime soon. 

At least not until the next expansion, Outlands 2: Tempest Keep Magister's Terrance Was Just a Set Back   

[Lastwolf]

Blood DK's are insane right now, dps is pretty much only a small notch below any other dps, whereas my paladin struggles to limp over 15k.

[luckton]

Blood DK's are insane right now, dps is pretty much only a small notch below any other dps, whereas my paladin struggles to limp over 15k.

Yes, well, maybe they went a 'little' overboard with making Heart Strike hit 4 targets + Rolling Blood + Crimson Scourge 

Not that I'm complaining about being #5 on DPS when I was tanking in LFR the other night    Maybe Paladins are just doing it wrong. 

[Zetor]

My blood DK was #1 on dps when running 5mans ever since cata launched, looks like this isn't about to change. Did Furor reroll a DK or something? 

[Merusk]

Yeah.

This is all kinds of shit, actually.  I have a char of every class and the only one that seems to have actually improved or been made more fun is the Rogue.

What.  The.  Fuck.

Really? Because I find the rogue less fun now but the hunter fun went up. Ditto the mage, though I always hated fire and played ice so I'm unaffected by their nerfs and got their buffs. Dk stayed the same but he's unholy and didn't change.

Paladin tanking seems awkward with the same CD fiddly bit problems as warriors but for other people.  Giving them a mandatory heal as a talent tier is either a waste of a talent or asking the tank to take care of yet another task, which is bullshit.  IF you're good you're already concerned with when to cast hands on whom, so now they've tossed-in a talent you should be using on a regular basis, too?  I've macroed it to cast on target's target and that's the extent of thought I'm going to put in to using it.

Shadow Priest feels more intuitive to me after having been a bit of bull for the last 2 expansions.  Haven't tried healing on her, so no idea if that's any different.

I never liked feral tanking so I don't care much about the druid changes.  Haven't bothered with cat form and switched to Moonkin so I didn't have to juggle sets while leveling and it seems a little more fun than it was.  Going to try resto later today and see if that's wildly different.

[Ironwood]

The rogue really had a lot of stuff that overlapped and got confusing.  Hell, even removing the eviscerate/envemon confusion was a good start.  The rest of the changes made it more interesting to me personally and less confusing.  Some people complained when they removed blinding power and whatnot, but frankly I think they should have removed the poisons THEN.  I like the sunder armor skill being changed from a finisher also.  I really like the stealth shield for other players, but I guess that'll only ever get used for PVP and not even then. Life leech poison is LOVE and the new mechanics of Shiv is great and makes it worthwhile.

As to the other changes.

My DK hasn't changed much, though 22k dps as a tank.  Whoa.
Priest is much the same, but the talents are UTTER shite.
Druid is now a fucking mana hog and has real problems with an item level of 389.  They really notice the refresh loss on lifebloom.  Tanking is 5k dps if that and is, as has been mentioned, button mashing of the shittiest shit.
Warrior.  Don't get me fucking started.  This is ALL wank, except removing stances which is a GOOD idea, but confusing this late in the game.
Paladin, works much the same, but the loss of judgements makes for confusing play.
Shammy :  fucking hell.  Fucking Hell, I fear change.  Totems, totems, totems.  What the fuck.
Mage - He's not 85, he's 84, so I don't care.  I like removing the whole 'I can't cast fireball as frost', but some of that doesn't make sense.  Scorch procs fingers of frost ?  Eh ?  Dime Bar ?
I do Like Warlocks.  That is all.  Also, I have a companion floating squid.  Can't say fairer than that.
Hunters a bit pish.

sigh.

I think maybe, ONCE AGAIN, I have outstayed my WoW welcome.

[cmlancas]

A few random response to folks' posts here:

Warrior tanking was bollocks throughout 4.X, so I welcome the changes of actually having to pay attention and actively do something.
DKs are venerable gods now...we had folks sitting through amalgamation blasts just to stack insane amounts of vengeance.
Priest talents are really good.  I'm sorry, but utility is a good thing in PVE.  I am constantly having to consider whether I want FDCL, Mindbender, Feathers, Body/Soul, Bulwark, and Desperate Prayer.
Hunters are about the same, but it's nice SV and BM get readiness now.
Warlocks are the bees' knees...I feel like the girlfriend has been rewarded through slogging through the most unfun game of simon she ever played through 4.3 as destruction.
Paladin heals are a lot easier for folks who weren't super-strong to become middle of the pack.  Accessibility is a good thing, imo.
Mages got more fun too, but I have to agree the scorch proc is odd.
Druids are quite good still, but I think ferals should lose Tranquility (I might just be mini-butthurt since I lost Divine Hymn).

[Ironwood]

Priest talents are really good.  I'm sorry, but utility is a good thing in PVE.  I am constantly having to consider whether I want FDCL, Mindbender, Feathers, Body/Soul, Bulwark, and Desperate Prayer.

No, I'm going to have to ask you to back that up.

Did I get a different set of talents ?

[Merusk]

, but confusing this late in the game.
Paladin, works much the same, but the loss of judgements makes for confusing play.

Wait.. what?  I've no idea what you mean by this.. you still judge and need to for Holy Power generation.  Only thing they lost was Auras, which is fine because nobody swapped anyway.

[Ironwood]

Holy Paladins used to have to judge for mana.

I found myself judging a fair bit at first and wondering why it didn't do anything.

[cmlancas]

Priest talents are really good.  I'm sorry, but utility is a good thing in PVE.  I am constantly having to consider whether I want FDCL, Mindbender, Feathers, Body/Soul, Bulwark, and Desperate Prayer.

No, I'm going to have to ask you to back that up.

Did I get a different set of talents ?

Alright, so from a shadow perspective, I get a choice between Mindbender (bursty, 1 minute CD) and From Darkness, Comes Light (sustained, +overall DPS talent).  I can use the former on fights such as Hagara, Zon'ozz, and Spine.  The latter works better in most dungeons and current raid content.

From a discipline perspective, I get a choice between Body and Soul and Angelic Feathers.  I like Body and Soul on Zon'ozz, Hagara, and Blackhorn.  I could also see it being useful on the last guy in Grim Batol.  Otherwise, I like feathers for encounters like Alysrazor, Baelroc, and other five-mans with movement.

From a survivability perspective (so regardless of spec), I can choose between the old standby emergency heal Desperate Prayer and Angelic Bulwark.  Bulwark is exceptionally good on Morchok, Hagara, Blackhorn, and Madness since it greatly reduces the chances you'll get one-shotted by a weak amount of overkill.

I haven't played much with the level 15 talents since most dungeons and raids don't require them.

But, all of this feels like an improvement to me because the only choices I had previously as a discipline priest was whether or not I'd play atonement (which I did, atonement was incredible in 4.3) and whether or not I wanted to spend points in spell haste.

I felt like I had even less choice as shadow.  I had one build and it never changed.

As an aside, healing as a shadow priest isn't wtfnerfed any more.  I can drop a 40k Power Word: Shield and a 35k Flash Heal in case of emergency.

Edit:  Posting from my cell phone is exceptionally difficult.

[Rokal]

No, I'm going to have to ask you to back that up.

Did I get a different set of talents ?

Out of all the classes I think priests got the best set of new talents. For most classes it feels like you pick from a large number of borderline useless talents, then you pick one talent that impacts your main role (the other two on the tier usually seem designed for pvp or other specs). With priests you're picking between at least two good talents that are appealing to every spec at every tier.

Impressions of other class changes:

Rogue - I certainly didn't feel like rogues got worse with the patch but they didn't get much better either. On the positive side having an aoe finisher is nice, Assassinations rotation got some simple but welcome changes, and I'm glad that poisons no longer take inventory spots. On the negative side, talents are completely uninspired and 90% of them only affect pvp. After selecting all my talents at 85, I had shadowstep and nothing else that was interesting or that I didn't already have before. Glyphs are in the same boat: mostly what we already had mixed in with some really bland changes to abilities we don't use. It's hard to be excited for the class when it is clear that Blizzard spent so little time on them in MoP.

Druid - I still don't like the gameplay of any of the specs, but the new travel form is nice. More importantly, you can now glyph out of Moonkin form. The new "astral form" isn't great, but it's still an improvement.

Warrior - I really like the tanking changes. So much so that I'm planning on playing a Prot Warrior or a Brewmaster for MoP. Prior to the patch most of your abilities were about generating threat. Threat hasn't been a concern for the class for over a year, so it didn't feel like there way much benefit to attempting to play well rather than just watching tv and tapping your Devastate and Thunderclap buttons every 10 seconds. Now there is a purpose to everything you do (either building rage or defensive rage spenders), which I find much more compelling.