X-Men: Days of Future Past

[jgsugden]

Man, you guys make it hard not to poke the bear.  When it is so easy to get people riled up, you kind of just want to do it for fun.

Regardless, I would be shocked if the potential impact on the movies was not discussed when the death of Parker in the Ultimate universe was discussed and the Ockifying of the Superior Spider-man was pitched.  There was likely a lot of things going into the discussion, but the movie rights had to be part of the conversation.

[sickrubik]

I'm not even remotely worked up. The Spiderman Conspiracy stuff is just DUMB and so is creating a strawman argument where people not on your side are suddenly somehow not thinking Marvel wants Spidey back in the fold.

[Velorath]

No one is arguing that Disney/Marvel aren't trying to do everything they can to get Spidey back.

More to the point, I'm not sure there's really anything Marvel can do to get Spider-man back short of Kevin Feige going Phantom of the Opera on the set of the next movie. They made their deals with Fox and Sony and for now pretty much have to wait it out.

[jgsugden]

I missed something: When did I accuse people of believing that Marvel didn't want Spider-man back?  

[sickrubik]

I missed something: When did I accuse people of believing that Marvel didn't want Spider-man back? 

Explicitly? You didn't. Passively creating a strawman via:

Regardless, being able to put a Disney controlled Spider-man into the Avengers universe would be a HUGE financial win for Disney.  You can bet that they're looking at every option possible to get those rights back and are not above poisoning the well to do it.

I can see them letting the X-men rights stay out of their hands, but Spider-man is the most iconic Marvel character - I'd think they'd have done everything possible to get the rights back.

Everyone would agree Marvel/Disney would want Spidey back in the fold. That was never in dispute. Most sane people just don't see a conspiracy. Most people just see it as normal legal contract bullshit.

[Samwise]

In terms of Superior Spider-man and the theory that this is intended to undermine the Spider-man film value, the theory is that having no Peter Parker driving Spider-man in the comcis makes the movies seem 'out of date' with the current continuity.

I hate to tell you this, but the only ones who give two rat fucks about the current continuity are the people writing and editing the comics. The Marvel Studios guys? Don't really give a fuck. Sony? They SURE don't give a fuck, because they are selling an iconic brand, not peddling monthly funny books for manchildren.

Yeah, this.  99.9% of film audiences give absolutely zero fucks about what's happening in the comics.  I mean, I can nerdrage about organic webshooters with the best of them, but even I give zero fucks about what's going on in the comics right now.

[Khaldun]

Well, on the 'suspicious' side, it's been pretty near documented that Superboy's appearances and disappearances from DC properties had a lot to do with the ups and downs of their legal case over the rights to the character. Stranger things have happened.

On the other hand, yeah, all this kind of stuff is just normal comic-books.

The Ultimate universe, at any rate, is about to be a non-issue as it's going to be destroyed completely.

[Ironwood]

It is ?  Good.

It was interesting at the very start, but got retarded quickly.

[jgsugden]

Let me guess this straight: I passively misrepresented someone else's argument, which you previously said nobody even made, by noting the presense of a couple pretty obvious incentives without attributing anything to anyone?  Wow.  I'm so good I can't even follow what I'm doing.

On the other note: Ultimate Universe is the heavier influence on the Marvel movies.  Even if they totally ended everything associated with it in terms of new comics, it will not be a 'non-issue' as they'll continue to borrow from the stories told there, especially from the era before they jumped the shark.

[sickrubik]

I'm not too versed in the Ultimate Universe, other than it became a trap for casting Nick Fury.

Beyond the regressiveness of having to cast Sam Jax as Nick Fury and the Chitauri being used instead of the Skrulls, what are the other things that lean towards the Ultimate universe being the focal point? Mind you both of those things are major things in the flagship of the marvel universe, but I'm mostly curious.

Edit: Seriously, I'm asking. I'm not trolling or starting an argument.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Toby Mcguire spiderman with the organic web shooters?

[jgsugden]

I'm far from an expert these days, but in general: Banner working on a Super Soldier serum, Avengers/Ultimates come together to fight the Chitauri, Hawkeye/Black Widow as agents of SHIELD, Cap's uni, Cap using a gun, Hawkeye's gun use (limited as it was), Hawkeye's look, Samuel L. Fucking Jackson, and the look of SHIELD.  The Thanos depicted in Avengers appears to be heavily based upon the Ultimate version of Thanos.  I say that primarily because of spoilers from a future movie, so I won't go into details.

In general, there are a lot of things in the main Marvel continuity that look dated because they were dreamed up on acid in the 60s and 70s.  The Ultimate universe reimagined a lot of these things rather than repeating them, giving us modern looks that were used as the starting point when they were redesgned for the movies. 

There is also a lot pulled from the 616 (main) universe, of course.  If I were to guess the attribution between the universes, I'd say that the elements of the movie universe that come from the comics come 60% from the main universe and 40% from the Ultimate universe.

[Khaldun]

The general mood of the first Ultimate version of the Avengers is pretty much closer to the 'realism' of the films, yeah. Cap is a great example: they just plain dropped the entire idea that Captain America was so ridiculously noble that he never killed anybody ever without making a big fuss about it, which in the end has boomeranged back into the "standard" version via Ed Brubaker so that now it's a given that Cap killed during World War II and is maybe willing to do so now if the circumstances warrant.

So in that sense the Ultimate universe was a pretty strong test bed for the Marvel films and will continue to influence the films. I think the curdling of the Ultimate universe under Jeph Loeb's management also helped the producers to understand where to pull back and keep the films a bit more like the 'original' Marvel, to not overplay the 'realism' to the point of losing the fun or being ashamed of the fantastic elements and classic comic-book tropes.

[Hutch]

New trailer. I haven't watched this with sound yet, but I'm going to set it down here anyway. 

X Men Trailer On The YouTube

[Shannow]

Bryan Singer. Wolverine. Jean Luc Picard. Gandalf.

What's not to fucking love.

I'm in.

[jgsugden]

I was 100% in until the trailer... I'm not feeling the young pissed off Xavier and the tender old Xavier issues.  I gt why they make sense, but it just didn't sit right with me in the trailer.

[Riggswolfe]

I was 100% in until the trailer... I'm not feeling the young pissed off Xavier and the tender old Xavier issues.  I gt why they make sense, but it just didn't sit right with me in the trailer.

Clearly you're a broken person who hates fun. I was on the fence until that trailer.

[Trippy]

I was not impressed by trailer.

[Threash]

Isn't Picard dead already?

[Evildrider]

Isn't Picard dead already?

He came back at the end of Last Stand.  Also, different timeline probably.

And how can you not show a Sentinel going to town in that trailer?

[Ghambit]

Isn't Picard dead already?

He came back at the end of Last Stand.  Also, different timeline probably.

And how can you not show a Sentinel going to town in that trailer?

Because once again we're given a drama in x-men skin rather then just a good ol' x-men mutant-superhero movie.  So it seems.  Hopefully it's a different story come release, but I've just about had enough of "origin" this, backstory that.  I'd very much just like to see X-Men (as a team) regularly using their powers to kick ass.

[jgsugden]

This is trailer #1 - the one you release before special effects are ready to go.  When they include effects in trailer one, they're often replaced by better looking stuff in the final movie.  I wasn't expecting to see Sentinels, major mutant on mutant fight scenes, etc...

The drama from trailer 1 will be in the movie, but there will be Mutant vs. Sentinel bad-assdom in between.  We have a long road to travel before release.

As for continuity: This movie is very much tied to what went down in X-Men 3.  They're not doing the Highlander 'ignore that last movie' approach here - the 'future' events of this movie take place after The Wolverine, which takes place (mostly) after X-Men 3.  They've said they really liked the DoFP storyline because it lets them embrace, and then fix, the pile that was X-Men 3.

If this movie is a success, we're supposed to see a whole bunch of X-related projects.  My prediction:

1.) More solo Wolverine (with or without Jackman - I know he is on the fence)
2.) More 'present day' X-men (Storm, Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Colossus, Cyclops, etc...)
3.) More First Class (Banshee, Havok, Beast, etc...)
4.) Deadpool films
5.) X-force Films
etc...

[Ironwood]

Aye, I'll agree;  even though it's not the best teaser in the world, that's pretty much what it is.  The other two will bring the action and probably a lot more of Jackman stabbing folk.

I'm just happy to see Singer back.

[tazelbain]

I feel like all this connecting continuity is going to bog it down.

[Evildrider]

I think if anything bogs it down it's going to be all the characters that are around now.. are they all just gonna get like a line of dialogue?

[tazelbain]

That too. Really its dropped from a must see to wait for Rotten Tomatoes score.

[Tannhauser]

I like that Singer's back.  I like that the supers are decorating their black leather suits a little bit.  Hopefully Singer's learned a lesson or two from Superman Returns.  The trailer was OK.

[Fordel]

If this movie makes it so everything after 2 stops existing, I'm all for it.

[Morat20]

I...still don't understand how you can cast Ryan Reynolds as Deadpool then make him a mute.

It's like someone shot the baby jesus.

If Hugh Jackman has to go back in time to give Deadpool back his ability to talk, then that's a price worth paying.

[jgsugden]

Here is the movie storyline I see (spoiler tag because part of it is based upon spoilers):

[Venkman]

That all sounds pretty esoteric for an X-men movie though. As a comic plot, sure. But that's not the same as the general audience movie.

[jgsugden]

[sickrubik]

Just out of curiosity, are either of you familiar with the original story in the comics?

[Raguel]

Just out of curiosity, are either of you familiar with the original story in the comics?

I'm vaguely familiar with it. It's been awhile and I don't think I read it all anyway. I know enough to be annoyed that they are using Logan and not Kitty, but whatevs. It looks like I have to resign myself to the fact that Wolverine is always going to squeeze screen time away from the other characters.

[Venkman]

Just out of curiosity, are either of you familiar with the original story in the comics?

Long ass time ago, so all I really remember is what's on the wikipedia page