The sky has not fallen (yet)

[Tannhauser]

Meanwhile Rift purrs along with its sub model and a massive xpac on the horizon.

Honestly, I'm not sure what I'd buy in a f2p TOR.  Maybe if they added more involved space missions.  Space, for a side game, was VERY well implemented to me. 

[Hutch]

Welp.

From the predictions thread:

(words)

I agree that they're not going to go F2P, and are more likely to do Blizzard-style microtrans with cosmetic items.

(etc)

Of course it remains to be seen how they'll do F2P, if at all. Will they put a level cap on it, like some games do?
Make the content pay-gated?
So many options.

[Ingmar]

They keep saying there's some fancy new space thing coming (and that they don't mean the new mission they're adding soon.)

[caladein]

Meanwhile Rift purrs along with its sub model and a massive xpac on the horizon.

Yes, Rift is still a subscription + endless trial game, but that subscription is often heavily discounted.

I wouldn't be surprised if they went the Turbine route of offering $10/month subs on medium-term plans later this year or in lead-up to the expansion.  Situation's a little different because of the lack of lifetime subscriptions, and Rift is still a young game at this point.

Edit: Thinking about it, "everyone" is playing around with subscription pricing.  WoW had the annual pass with free D3 and SWTOR's given away a decent amount of time.  But those are still sitting at higher monthly rates.

[Paelos]

Wow is still on subscription as well.

[Hutch]

Meanwhile Rift purrs along with its sub model and a massive xpac on the horizon.

Yes, Rift is still a subscription + endless trial game, but that subscription is often heavily discounted.

I wouldn't be surprised if they went the Turbine route of offering $10/month subs on medium-term plans later this year or in lead-up to the expansion.  Situation's a little different because of the lack of lifetime subscriptions, and Rift is still a young game at this point.

Rift has that now.

[Ingmar]

Rift is also privately held so we have basically no visibility into what is going on there behind the scenes. We don't even have a good estimate of subscriber numbers, although one could speculate that if they were impressive there would be press releases and marketing built around that. They've merged servers themselves and are discounting subs, so I don't know that 'purring' is right. It might be, it might not, who really knows?

[caladein]

Rift has that now.

I meant more at the 3/6-month levels, but yes, Rift does discount very aggressively on the multi-month plans.  I think they had them down even lower (like $8.50/month for 1 year) as a promotion late last year.

Still, at regular pricing WoW at 6-months a pop is a full $2/month more.  Plus Remote being a couple bucks for WoW but free for Rift.

[Rokal]

Rift has already discounted subs a few times. $29.99/3 months has been offered a few times and $99.99/year was offered around the 1-year anniversary. I like Rift, but it's clear they weren't successful enough to stick with consistent high subscription prices like WoW.

[Threash]

Rift had a 6 month subs for 10 bucks a month from launch, their pricing had nothing to do with their success or lack of it.

[Ingmar]

Rift had a 6 month subs for 10 bucks a month from launch, their pricing had nothing to do with their success or lack of it.

That was 'founders' pricing that expired shortly after release I believe.

[Amaron]

Message them and ask how many reupped just to take the free move now so if they DID think about reupping in the future they didn't do so on a dead server.  I know I briefly considered it because a $15 fee to transfer ALL my characters for free now is better than $15 + $25x <whatever characters I move> later.

I actually have talked to a lot of them now.   My server was actually a pretty active PvP server back in the day and a lot of people at least knew who I was from WZ's.    I didn't do anything like ask them why they quit or whatever.   The majority though said something along the lines of "I came back because FATMAN!".

I've no clue how well the game is doing overall considering they increased the server limits.   However bad some people see this game though the people who liked it sure as hell weren't going to play on dead servers.     They took too long but they did it right at least.    They're going to get back subs as word gets around.   Of course they may just bleed them out again.  

[Kageru]

Interesting the article was pulled. It might also explain why they left all the old servers up rather than closing them... it means they have a lot of spare capacity sitting idle. Which if so means they'll probably go f2p sooner rather than later since it's also costing them money in hosting. Pretty much confirms EA sees the game as a massive failure, this wasn't the original plan at all, and it's still going to be a stretch to generate the revenue they need to extent the content at the same quality level.

[Margalis]

A big problem I see with going F2P is that the cosmetic stuff in SWTOR is not particularly appealing. Attractive cosmetic stuff is cheap to produce, sells well, and tends not to piss off consumers.

[UnSub]

Meanwhile Rift purrs along with its sub model and a massive xpac on the horizon.

Honestly, I'm not sure what I'd buy in a f2p TOR.  Maybe if they added more involved space missions.  Space, for a side game, was VERY well implemented to me. 

To the best of my knowledge, RIFT cost US$50m to develop and has made that money back. Hartsman et al were focused on what they wanted to do with that game and kept development costs from blowing out. They self-published in the US and had publishing partners for Europe and Asia, meaning they kept a lot of money from the revenue that came in from box sales.

EA gave BioWare a blank cheque and LucasArts is allegedly taking a cut of revenue, so SWOR had to be massively successful just to break even. Then they hyped it up a lot and delivered something that was good, but not awesome. I won't be surprised if some kind of F2P offer is made available for SWOR. F2P means they have their client on lots of computers and the chance of people paying a few dollars, than requiring $15 a month from a much smaller and more critical group.

[Margalis]

At what point can we say the sky has fallen?

I'm looking forward to the next news on subscriber numbers. 

[Mattemeo]

A big problem I see with going F2P is that the cosmetic stuff in SWTOR is not particularly appealing. Attractive cosmetic stuff is cheap to produce, sells well, and tends not to piss off consumers.

This could be an incentive for them to produce gear that doesn't look like A: stuff hobos reject because they still have dignity or B: stuff designed by that japanese commercial guy with bananas in his ears.
I never bought any Store outfits in Guild Wars because I could usually cobble something together I liked out of what was available in game. SWtOR? I'm still struggling to find gear for my BH that doesn't look like I tripped over in landfill.

[Kageru]

They could sell content packs like lotro does. You want to follow the next episode of your troopers personal story? 15$ thanks. A cool new companion? 15$ thanks. Also PvP advantages and convenience (character slots, races, bags) are easy money. Plus gating progression either through level locks or forcing people to buy planets.

However it still won't work. The money required to add new content at close to the level they've established is simply too expensive and slow for either sub or f2p. That's always been the problem that is inherent in their design. Instead I suspect they'll use f2p to extend the lifetime of the title, and probably conceal the subscription numbers, but I would be surprised if the game doesn't slip into maintenance mode and the dev team shrunk further.

[UnSub]

I look forward to BioWare announcing same sex companions as a pay-to-play only. 

[Abelian75]

I look forward to BioWare announcing same sex companions as a pay-to-play only. 

Pay2Gay, as I believe the term has already been coined here.  So good.

[Phred]

They could sell content packs like lotro does. You want to follow the next episode of your troopers personal story? 15$ thanks. A cool new companion? 15$ thanks. Also PvP advantages and convenience (character slots, races, bags) are easy money. Plus gating progression either through level locks or forcing people to buy planets.

Maybe selling planet quest packs  beyond the first few might work and is way more the LoTRO model than selling personal story chapters. In LoTRO the book stories are free all the way through, as they should be. If they sold planet packs I think they'd get way better response. Also providing a bounty board system so they can pretend you can level without the planet quest pack would be an good idea. They'd need to come up with some modification on their achievements system to support points that can be used in their store as well. All this assumes they actually decide to go with the Turbine model. I think the reason the turbine model succeeds is that it gives the illusion you can really play for free if you work at it but in reality very few have the fortitude to stick with grinding deeds to get turbine points.

[Ratman_tf]

I propose an overhaul.  A "new game experience," if you will.

[Falconeer]

And thanks to the mergers, the queues are back. 40 minutes wait tonight for me. Oh stupid gamers, we are never happy, are we? 

[Amaron]

And thanks to the mergers, the queues are back. 40 minutes wait tonight for me. Oh stupid gamers, we are never happy, are we? 

I doubt that's going to be going on long term.   It's just the rush of the first weekend after transfers are available.

[Fordel]

I haven't seen a Queue since the first night, all the RP'ers fighting over their names.

[Brogarn]

No queues on Canderous Ordo that I've seen. I have been absolutely thrilled with the amount of Warzones I've been able to get into, though. Subscribed for another month just to do that and space combat to pass the time until something else grabs my interest.

[PalmTrees]

Meanwhile, back on Adraas there were 3 people on Corellia and 10 on Dromund Kass this afternoon. About once an hour, maybe less often, they put a system message onscreen about the transfers in big red letters. Who knows how long they'll bother to keep Adraas open. I'll enjoy having planets to myself in the meantime.

[koro]

No queues on Shadowlands either. There are, as I type, 113 people on Dromund Kaas, and only 8 of them aren't level-appropriate. That is insane.

[Ingmar]

It's really quite awesome, sky falling or no this is fantastic for the people still playing.

[raresnake]

the question is when is this game moved to the graveyard?

[angry.bob]

Yeah, it's made the game significantly more enjoyable. The auction house has pages of results for just about any inquiry instead of one or two items, Fleet is packed full of people, and battlegrounds are popping like mad. Best of all, they're almost never Huttball.

The name thing sucks though, and my legacy name was already taken. Bleh.

[Shatter]

Reloaded the game to transfer my characters and there were 287 people on the Imperial fleet last night, I dont remember there being that many ever.  Lag was light but definitely tolerable.  Game is actually fun again after a 2 month break but then again Im playing 1-49 bracket and will probably quit again once I hit 50

[Falconeer]

To be fair, while I understand why so many don't want to subject themselves to the post-50 PvP, that's where the game shines. If it wasn't for the ridiculous amount of Crowd Control I must say this would be the most balanced and enjoyable hotbar-based arena PvP experience I've ever had, and I am totally looking forward to the ranked warzones. By the time they'll implement them pretty much everyone will have the best equipment or close to, which will level the field to "skill" and tactics.

Granted, none of that is even remotely visible with PUGs. You have to run with your team, which is the point of Ranked Warzones. But there's a layer up there which is really enjoyable (when you are not perma-stunned/rooted/feared).

Finally, allowing 8-players premades will make it all even better now that the servers are really full. While waiting for Guild Wars and the real deal, this is going to be a lot of fun.

[Sky]

the question is when is this game moved to the graveyard?

Your contribution is sincerely appreciated.

I would agree, if Rift is there, TOR belongs there (with the massive merges). But your first post in two years?

[angry.bob]

ranked warzones

Oooof. My 5 year old and I currently share my Sith Assassin and ranking is going to hurt. Not that he doesn't kill people, but it's usually because he's spamming Lacerate at the right time.