This Was my Last MMO

[Paelos]

That's because it's Empire versus Alliance Republic with a slightly different logo


Note, the logo actually devolved over 2000 years. Probably due to lack of funding.

Empire though?

[Fordel]

Right because we really need to design for the colorblind and deaf. 

At this point I'd just say that's what mods are for, but they fucked that up too.

Fuck the colorblind!

(We have like at least 3 people in SLAP that are colorblind, including Ingmar. It made him tanking that boss in Mechanar a real hoot  )


--

I have no more issue with StarWars being eternally at the same level of technology then I do LOTR or any other fantasy setting. I also have no issue with this conflict only being important to the people of this Era. The movies aren't any different really, in the grand scheme of the Republics history. They are what, 50-80 years of conflict? That's a footnote in terms of Republic History.

[Ratman_tf]

Dumb rant, but there it is :)

Heh. I totally agree. When I saw the dudes frozen in carbonite, I was like "Wait, what?" Sometimes TOR feels like My First Star Wars by Fisher Price.

[Nevermore]

Did I miss something from Empire that said freezing someone in carbonite was experimental and new?  All I remember them saying was that the carbonite freezer in Cloud City wasn't designed for humans so Vader wanted to test it on Han first.  Given Lando's little operation was so small it was beneath the notice of both the Empire and the Mining Guild, it seems unlikely he had brand new, never before seen experimental tech.  I have no with carbonite freezing existing back then.

[Merusk]

Right because we really need to design for the colorblind and deaf. 

At this point I'd just say that's what mods are for, but they fucked that up too.

You continue to live down to expectations.

At some point in the near future the ADA is going to have it's own version that applies to software, so yes, sensible designers would be planning for it now.

[Paelos]

You continue to live down to expectations.

It's a fucking game. Get over yourself.

Honestly the bleeding heart shit some of you people champion at times IN GAMING makes no sense to me.

In real life? Absolutely. In an entertainment arena? Fuck off.

[Sjofn]

Because only "normal" people deserve entertainment, you guys! 


Even if I bought into the "fuck anyone not exactly like me" mindset, there are a lot of colorblind people (it's something like 8% of all dudes, although practically no ladies). And for whatever reason, a lot of them are nerds. It's stupid not to design with those people in mind.

[Paelos]

It's stupid not to design a moddable ui.

The rest of it is just people shoving their own baggage into the situation.

[Sjofn]

Yes, that's right. It's all "baggage."

[Surlyboi]

How many other MMOs or just games in general, for that matter, are designed with the color blind in mind?

[Velorath]

How many other MMOs or just games in general, for that matter, are designed with the color blind in mind?

A lot of mmo's.  Isn't that why a number of them used icons in addition to color for their con system?   DAOC for instance used the grey, green, blue, yellow, orange, red, purple color system to show a mobs level relative to yours and then supplemented it with -'s and +'s for colorblind people.  I seem to recall that sort of thing being fairly common.

[UnSub]

So, what you are saying is. You don't like talking to people.

That's what you got out of my post?

In short:

 - text works and there are a lot of good templates for how such a system can look and what functions it can offer.

 - I've had technical issues with VOIP before (e.g. breaking up, too faint, etc) that means I don't trust it / think it reliable.

And, to add one in that wasn't in the original post:

 - I PUG a lot. I don't have a guild. I've had some PUG-related VOIP experiences that aren't uncommon but that I don't want to repeat because they take away from the fun of playing. If someone wants to lolfag me in text chat, they can, but then it's logged and easily reportable.

[UnSub]

It's stupid not to design a moddable ui.

The rest of it is just people shoving their own baggage into the situation.

No, it's sloppy design. There are some basic "Don't do this and consider this" rules for when developing for the mass market that aren't hard to implement. However, it requires the devs responsible for those parts to think a little bit about it, which sometimes doesn't happen.

It isn't appropriate to think that mods will fix what should have been there in the first place. Improve it? Sure, but not add in basic things that were missed.

[Paelos]

It isn't appropriate to think that mods will fix what should have been there in the first place. Improve it? Sure, but not add in basic things that were missed.

This is ridiculous on so many levels. First, mods add in new things all the time. Hell, mods for many other games add in complete worlds that get built on the engines. To suggest that it would someone be onerous on a minority community of geek males (who seem to be primarily the ones struck with colorblindness) to write a mod for the UI? TOO FAR! We save that kind of effort for dps parsers and threatmeters!

[Der Helm]

I don't think you guys are arguing about the same thing.

 

[Paelos]

Meh probably not, I'm just firing into the dark at this point. It's Saturday and the college games are sorta boring.

[Kageru]

I see text and voice as complementary systems. If I'm soloing I probably don't want to listen to someone chat about something that has nothing to do with me in game. So chat is a lower impact form of communication and easier to ignore if they're just talking shit that doesn't interest me (which is generally the case). I mean imagine zone general chat done as voice and that's the only communications interface. Of course if I'm doing something with other people, like an instance or a raid, it works the other way around because I don't want the delay of typing and I know that whatever they say is going to be relevant because they're in the same instance or group (and thus people I selected and am playing with).

On top of that most in-game chat clients are pointless. I can find a lower ping and better performing ventrilo or mumble server than the in-game solution, and most big guilds will have an established voip solution.

[Ingmar]

Right because we really need to design for the colorblind and deaf. 

At this point I'd just say that's what mods are for, but they fucked that up too.

10% of all men are colorblind. Ignoring that in your design is stupid.

[Margalis]

This is ridiculous on so many levels. First, mods add in new things all the time. Hell, mods for many other games add in complete worlds that get built on the engines. To suggest that it would someone be onerous on a minority community of geek males (who seem to be primarily the ones struck with colorblindness) to write a mod for the UI? TOO FAR! We save that kind of effort for dps parsers and threatmeters!

Yes, color blindness primarily effects geeks. Thanks doctor.

In real life, rather than your self-entitled fantasy land, color blindness is extremely common in the population at large and there are very simple things you can do to (partially) proof UIs against it. Things that also make UIs better and more readable for everyone.

Isn't that why a number of them used icons in addition to color for their con system?

I good UI will use color, shape, positioning and as many other visual cues as possible. It makes it easier for everyone to quickly pick things out.

[Ratman_tf]

Did I miss something from Empire that said freezing someone in carbonite was experimental and new?  All I remember them saying was that the carbonite freezer in Cloud City wasn't designed for humans so Vader wanted to test it on Han first.  Given Lando's little operation was so small it was beneath the notice of both the Empire and the Mining Guild, it seems unlikely he had brand new, never before seen experimental tech.  I have no with carbonite freezing existing back then.

For me, it's that they were frozen nearly exactly like Han at Cloud City. Same rectangular casing, same half-in half-poking out poses. Sometimes their references to the movies make sense, and sometimes they seem like concept cut n' paste.

[eldaec]

You really get the feeling it isn't a knowing wink, but a just someone without any imagination copying and pasting.


Of course, both the prequels and the EU plumb the same depths so *maybe* this is a subtle commentary on the overexploitation of the core 3 movie canon.


OK maybe not.

[FieryBalrog]

I suspect the dearth of imagination about that stuff is more of a Lucasarts thing than anything else.

[Numtini]

I believe a lack of imagination is a trademark owned by Lucasfilm LTD.

[Riggswolfe]

You really get the feeling it isn't a knowing wink, but a just someone without any imagination copying and pasting.

Actually I get the feeling that they wanted people to constantly feel like they were in Star Wars. So you see a carbon frozen man and go "good lord get original." I, and lots of people like me, see a carbon frozen man and go "cool just like Han!"

[eldaec]

There is carbon freezing, but then there is carbon freezing everyone in identical poses and identical machinery.

[Merusk]

Machinery? Hell my BH fires it from his wrist at every damn target.  Many of whom stand upright and stoically as they're turned into a living statue.. who then winds up looking like Han in the next cutscene.   THAT is what makes me all  

As to a lot of the rest of the "just like the movies!" stuff (Sith ships for example.)  They looked different enough in the original KOTOR series, so I'm going to blame it on wanting to look like the movies so as to not alienate the non-hardcore SW geeks.

[Simond]

How many other MMOs or just games in general, for that matter, are designed with the color blind in mind?

Yeah, TOR in yet another "Not as good as WoW" shocker. 

[Venkman]

Like the other 8-10% of global males, I'm partially color deficient (on the red-green side). For those who are not, this isn't total color blindness, which is extremely rare. This is just having some issues differentiating between certain proximities of warm colors. If you look at an old standard set of Crayola markers, I can't tell the difference between the Red and the Brown caps. I struggled with the yellow and green orbs in Zuma until they put in color-blind mode that added gray orbs. I put my vote in for the - and + symbols they added to DAoC.

Having said that, I didn't have any problems with SWTOR. Where they used closely-related color symbols, they made clear the differences in the tool tips.

Did I miss something from Empire that said freezing someone in carbonite was experimental and new?  All I remember them saying was that the carbonite freezer in Cloud City wasn't designed for humans so Vader wanted to test it on Han first. 

It was that plus C-3PO's "ooh, they encased him in Carbonite. He should be remarkably well preserved, assuming he survived the freezing process" all together which implied this wasn't some stock-standard consumer-grade tech, which therefore probably still had the kinks anything new does. It is kinda easy to argue it either way though. If one is a fan of the story in SWTOR, they could argue as you did: feh, "standard issue stuff but Lando's sucked". If you're critiquing the story in SWTOR, it's "retcon raawwr!" :)

[Lakov_Sanite]

Or you know, you could have half a brain and realize that carbonite freezing was intended to be not meant for humans.

[FieryBalrog]

You really get the feeling it isn't a knowing wink, but a just someone without any imagination copying and pasting.

Actually I get the feeling that they wanted people to constantly feel like they were in Star Wars.

That may in fact be the same feeling.

[Sky]

I think we should argue more stridently about made-up shit.

[Nevermore]

There is carbon freezing, but then there is carbon freezing everyone in identical poses and identical machinery.

What they should have done is spend 20 man hours making 40 unique blocks of carbon frozen people in different positions so Eldaec wouldn't be offended by their lack of imagination.  Most people when they look at the one pose just think 'hey, it's carbon-frozen man', but they should have spent more time for that one guy who thinks 'HOW DARE THEY COPY HAN'S FROZEN POSE!'.

Edit:

It was that plus C-3PO's "ooh, they encased him in Carbonite. He should be remarkably well preserved, assuming he survived the freezing process" all together which implied this wasn't some stock-standard consumer-grade tech, which therefore probably still had the kinks anything new does.

Now see, I look at that same exact quote and what I see is a protocol droid spitting out common knowledge, as he usually does.  So if C-3PO actually knows about carbon freezing, it must be fairly common.

[Threash]

It's not just that they copied the pose, it looks exactly like han solo frozen in there down to the hair and face.

[Margalis]

Actually I get the feeling that they wanted people to constantly feel like they were in Star Wars. So you see a carbon frozen man and go "good lord get original." I, and lots of people like me, see a carbon frozen man and go "cool just like Han!"

Well yeah, of course. Depending on your slant the game is some sort of callback, homage or pastiche.

I get the complaints that the game just takes stuff from the movies and riffs on them, but at the same time does anyone really want to see new stuff given how horrid new Star Wars stuff has become? I think at this point most people realize that from a creative standpoint the best days of Star Wars are decades removed - the best strategy for exploiting the IP is not telling exciting new tales of new characters in new places but rather "hey, remember the time Boba Fett flew around on a jetpack? Yeah, that was awesome!!"

It's comfort food.

[Nevermore]

I'll take Han Solo-shaped carbonite man over the Yuuzhan Vong or whatever the fuck they were called any day.