This Was my Last MMO

[Phred]

The real issue for me is more what Bloodworth points to: the underlying mechanics and design premises of DIKU-derived MUDs are unsalvageable  [snip]  But I consider myself like an aficionado of sumo wrestling or curling or John Cage music in this sense: it's a weird, broken art form, an acquired taste.

It seems a real stretch to call something in a niche market that has 11 million customers an acquired taste.

[Rokal]

JK has a ton of ability icons that look nearly identical, so there's that too. It hasn't been an issue in my BH but I'm still not a fan of the change.

[01101010]

Everytime I read the thread title, I get this image in my head... I have no idea why   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0ktKSRs6a4#t=4m41s

[Morfiend]

JK has a ton of ability icons that look nearly identical, so there's that too. It hasn't been an issue in my BH but I'm still not a fan of the change.

So does Marauder.

"Oh look, another ability that is the outline of a head and shoulders, surrounded by red flames. This will go perfect with my set of 5 others."

[Sjofn]

I have years of practice with the WoW paladin (glowing hand or glowing hammer, THE END), so the sameness of the icons for some of the classes doesn't faze me at all. 


JK is totally the only class where the new cooldown shit annoys me visually, I don't really need to look at my bar as much for the other classes I've played since the patch (operative and sage).

[Nebu]

Playing my sentinel last night, some of the abilities look 'greyed out' when they're actually active.  It's rather confusing.

[UnSub]

I really do wish someone would take a step back and create something that is an evolution of UO in the same way WoW was an evolution from EQ, instead of trying to evolve WoW into ... well... better/different WoW.

Which 30 day period of UO would you like to bring back?

If you give players freedom, they use it to intentionally or unintentionally fuck over other players. If you don't give players freedom, then you remove the toys from their sandbox and it becomes a theme park.

The underlying mechanics behind DIKU MMOs could be improved, but BioWare was not going to be the company to do it.

[Venkman]

I'm souring on MMO's because after 14 years they have become boring.

Pretty much in the same boat. I pre-ordered SWTOR because I figured it'd be the swan song for the genre. It really had to be. The budget was way too big to take any real chances on, because the way to get that amount of money is to use proven models and concepts. The more money, the more proof, the more you must knock off. But all that requires a market of uninformed players, which was always going to be the problem for them. After years of WoW, it's not like there's another 13,000,000 people waiting for a game just like EQ but better.

So I wanted to be there to say goodbye.

To a veteran like me, the small titles are either retread old concepts, or good concepts wrapped in painfully derivative/generic settings I've seen dozens of times already. The game mechanic itself kinda qualifies as easy to learn/hard to master, except the "hard to master" is more a question of lifestyle choices than anything else.

I run with an awesome guild of folks I've known since they saved me from "A Orc" near Kelethin. But after 10 years, and multiple life changes, it's hard to look at the same slog through the skill-learning/social-climbing/lifestyle-changing ladder again and be as inspired as that first time I stepped out of Felwithe or Camelot. Especially when that slog remains fundamentally unchanged in retrospect. And especially when the video game industry has up and gone making some freakin' awesome PC games again.

Thanks for all the fish!

[Nevermore]

I have years of practice with the WoW paladin (glowing hand or glowing hammer, THE END), so the sameness of the icons for some of the classes doesn't faze me at all. 


JK is totally the only class where the new cooldown shit annoys me visually, I don't really need to look at my bar as much for the other classes I've played since the patch (operative and sage).

I pretty much have to stare at my bar 100% of the time on my Shadow so 1) I can see the tiny little Particle Acceleration buff appear when it procs and 2) so I can see when the cooldowns on Slow Time, Force Breach and towards the end of the fight Spinning Strike are up.  Plus I have to be staring there to see my force, too.  Needless to say, I'm not a fan of this latest, completely unnecessary change.

If there's any good to come out of this, it's that a dev posted that the next iteration which will hopefully be out in around 2 weeks will include preference settings so people can pick and choose the aspects they like.  We'll see how that turns out.

[Ratman_tf]

Seems like as good a thread as any.

My interest in TOR is waning fast. The single player online is fine, but not worth a subscription. All of my friends are different levels, and so I can't group with them. Looking at their progression, it may be months before everyone is 50. Some are fast, and some are slower. I have zero interest in PUGing this game.

So far the MMO aspect of TOR gets a D- from me, and that's only because we did manage to group a little bit before the level dispartiy got too bad. Otherwise it'd be an F.

[jakonovski]

I canceled my sub as well. I tried to play my brand new BH alt but as soon as I got to Dromund Kaas and talked to the dude with the jungle beast quest, my eyes just glazed over and I couldn't summon the interest anymore. On paper SWTOR is just great, but after the Star Warsiness wore off, playing it is like chewing cardboard.

[Xuri]

I really do wish someone would take a step back and create something that is an evolution of UO in the same way WoW was an evolution from EQ, instead of trying to evolve WoW into ... well... better/different WoW.

Which 30 day period of UO would you like to bring back?

If you give players freedom, they use it to intentionally or unintentionally fuck over other players. If you don't give players freedom, then you remove the toys from their sandbox and it becomes a theme park.

The underlying mechanics behind DIKU MMOs could be improved, but BioWare was not going to be the company to do it.

Sorry for not being very specific. I meant the 30 day period of UO from July 13th to August 12th, 1998. Either that, or I meant the general concept of UO's "world > game" approach. I'm no longer sure.

Anyway, there is giving people freedoms, and then there is giving people freedoms. You don't have to make Darkfall to make a sandbox MMO.

[eldaec]

Seems like as good a thread as any.

My interest in TOR is waning fast. The single player online is fine, but not worth a subscription. All of my friends are different levels, and so I can't group with them. Looking at their progression, it may be months before everyone is 50. Some are fast, and some are slower. I have zero interest in PUGing this game.

So far the MMO aspect of TOR gets a D- from me, and that's only because we did manage to group a little bit before the level dispartiy got too bad. Otherwise it'd be an F.

I'm really surprised people don't complain about this more.

It seems absurd that friends with differing time /played are blocked from playing together in a multiplayer game in 2012.

It is a problem mmog designers continually ignore despite simple solutions being available since CoH, and despite the fact you would never get away with it in any other genre.

Can you seriously imagine EA setting the pointless ME multiplayer up with a restriction that you can only play with others if their Shep is +/- 2 levels of your own?

[Sky]

EQ2's mentoring was a really good implementation, too.

[Mrbloodworth]

Adding some sort of mentor/side-kicking would indeed let me keep a sub.

My number one issue with this genre is levels as blocks to playing with friends.

[Paelos]

The lack of chat bothers me. Everyone can go about their business in a guild with 8 people online, and nothing will be said in guild chat for 30 minutes at a stretch. That's not a good sign for the game.

[Nebu]

EQ2's mentoring was a really good implementation, too.

I disagree strongly.  The person acting as the mentor was grossly overpowered due to poor scaling of gear bonuses and abilities.  While being mentored, you still felt like you were being powerleveled... which isn't the point.  I preferred the sidekicking system in COH/COV though it had its own issues (one level lower, etc.).

[Mrbloodworth]

People still use Text chat? I mean, other than linking and asking the occasional questions.

[Fabricated]

The lack of chat bothers me. Everyone can go about their business in a guild with 8 people online, and nothing will be said in guild chat for 30 minutes at a stretch. That's not a good sign for the game.

Depends on the guild really man. My old wow guild was mostly on vent and in private/group chats ingame, with occasional spouts of /g chat.

Meanwhile, goon guildchat is pretty much nonstop and that's including a usually loaded ventrilo server.

[Lantyssa]

People still use Text chat? I mean, other than linking and asking the occasional questions.

Yes.  I prefer text chat.  It takes an act of the heavens to get me on a headset.

[Khaldun]

I find that when I'm in a guild of friends my age, we do a lot of text chatting, because we can't really afford to have the headphones on and completely shut out family.

Here's one of the things that really strikes me as a sign of ill-health. I'm in a guild now on my server that seems to be mostly 20-somethings, reasonably nice if utterly typical gamers in various respects. They're on every night. They mostly do PvP, but not because they are PvP-centric in their preferences. The guild formed pretty early in the history of the server. They're fairly hardcore games, pretty intense. They're working on the Karegga operation, that's the guild's main PvE.

So I confessed that I hadn't run any of the Flashpoints after Red Reaper yet because I'd pugged the others and no one on the entire server wanted to pug anything from Directive 7 onward. Turns out almost no one in a 60-person guild had really bothered doing any of the endgame 4-mans. They were kind of interested if, you know, the chance came up, but they all felt sort of unmotivated about it. There is no one in general chat looking for people to do them. I asked a couple of people in the two other large Republic guilds, and they're sort of the same way, not really bothering to do 4-man Flashpoints much, a few hard mode tries. Almost no one thinks it's worth just doing some like The False Emperor to see the content. No one really likes the hard mode gameplay, especially not in 4-mans.

To me, that looks like a community of players who are on the edge of not playing any more, even if they're not saying so as such yet.

[Threash]

People still use Text chat? I mean, other than linking and asking the occasional questions.

Yes.  I prefer text chat.  It takes an act of the heavens to get me on a headset.

Ditto, if i wanted to talk to people i would go outside.

[Nebu]

To me, that looks like a community of players who are on the edge of not playing any more, even if they're not saying so as such yet.

It's also a sign that the playerbase is becoming more sophisticated and looking for something even a little different.  While the flashpoints are fun the first few times that you run them, it doesn't take anyone long to quickly identify the grind ahead.  As most of the playerbase has experienced WoW and/or other MMO's, they aren't as enamored with the allure of the shiny like they used to be.  They want a little more substance and a little more of the game feel in their MMO.  

I have been playing these games a long time and know what faces me every time I start playing one.  For some reason, SWTOR made me aware of the leveling/gear grind far sooner and in a more obvious way than many of it's predecessors.  That can't be a good thing.

[Sky]

The lack of chat bothers me. Everyone can go about their business in a guild with 8 people online, and nothing will be said in guild chat for 30 minutes at a stretch. That's not a good sign for the game.

Pic of Paelos irl:


As far as end game stuff, I'm not a fan of the gimmicky event-driven stuff I guess became big with WoW. So it doesn't bother me too much not seeing the HM FPs or Ops. But I'm not surprised at the utter lack of an interesting end game, since I knew going in that I don't like what every other mmo passes off as an elder game.

[Rasix]

People still use Text chat? I mean, other than linking and asking the occasional questions.

Yes.  I prefer text chat.  It takes an act of the heavens to get me on a headset.

"Broken mic" 5 years running for me.  I type just fine.

[Mrbloodworth]

Wow, ok. I'm not talking about pubies. But people I have been gaming for years with. You guys do not use VOIP even in that case? Must be fun on dungeon runs....

I mostly completely ignore text.  

[Secundo]

Hate using mic/headsets as well. I used them in competitions before but never in a mmo.
It breaks the immersion for me too much. I might be convinced to listen in during a raid, but I'm just as likely to not go on that raid.

Also, I quit my sub as soon as I had experienced the new UI. It made it clear that they dont have what it takes.

[Lantyssa]

I've gotten on voice comms with SLAP maybe a half-dozen times.  We read just fine and can all type at a reasonable speed.  Now there are a few people who if they asked me to get on voice I would, but they share my preferences, so they won't.  We do have one member whom if I group with I'll do so if asked because it's much easier for him to communicate verbally.

A large part of my preference is that I 'talk' and understand a lot more with typing than vocally.  I process the written word much more easily.  I can rearrange my thoughts into something coherent.  Unless I know someone really well, I hardly talk at all, and then I have to be in the right mood.  Typing though?  I probably prattle on a bit too much then.

[Wolf]

I'm rarely logging in. And when I do I get bored in less than an hour or two. I hope I can make myself level at least one character to 50 in the month and a half I have left on my sub :)

[Zetor]

I've gotten on voice comms with SLAP maybe a half-dozen times.  We read just fine and can all type at a reasonable speed.  Now there are a few people who if they asked me to get on voice I would, but they share my preferences, so they won't.  We do have one member whom if I group with I'll do so if asked because it's much easier for him to communicate verbally.

A large part of my preference is that I 'talk' and understand a lot more with typing than vocally.  I process the written word much more easily.  I can rearrange my thoughts into something coherent.  Unless I know someone really well, I hardly talk at all, and then I have to be in the right mood.  Typing though?  I probably prattle on a bit too much then.

Yeah, pretty much the same thing here. My guild gets on Mumble when we're doing a full guild run of something (esp. if it needs coordination) and 2-3 of us occasionally use it for for pvp or arena. Most of the time it's just typing, and we do hang out in an IRC channel 24/7 so we can chat even if some of us are not ingame / at work / not subbed to the game-of-the-month etc. Ditto with Steam voicechat vs. Steam text chat.

Considering that I'm in an international guild with a Hungarian, a Dane, a Brit, several Norwegians, Canucks, and of course quite a few Americans (both coasts), text is a much better medium for all of us to communicate in -- accent bonanza or not. (read: my written English is a lot more understandable than trying to cut through my bad microphone AND my horribleawesome accent  )

[Bunk]

I've fallen in to a pattern of playing three or four times during the week, typicaly for about an hour or so, a little longer on the planned wednesday group. On weekends I'll probably log a couple hours as well.

So maybe, 5 - 8 hours a week in the game per week. 20 - 32 hours a month of entertainment for $15. Yup, pretty much exactly the value I'm looking for in an MMO. Hell, I'd consider $15 a month a value if I was only logging two hours a week. What the hell else entertains me for 8 hours for $15?

I get it, this isn't for everyone (especially the PVPers apparently). Most of you are burnt out on the genre. Personally, I came to this having been out of WoW for four years. It scratches an itch and it does it quite well.

Sorry this isn't what you were looking for - it is however exactly what I was looking for.*

*assuming they do put out additional content at a pace higher than Blizzard. It will take me likely another three months to reach 50 on my main. I'm hoping to have hints of new things to inspire my Alts by then.

[Rasix]

You're almost exactly mirroring my situation.  I play maybe an hour a night (sometimes just 30 mins) after I'm done playing LoL.  I have a lvl 26 BH and a 24 smuggler. I haven't even seen the inside of flashpoint or participated in any pvp.   

[DraconianOne]

So maybe, 5 - 8 hours a week in the game per week. 20 - 32 hours a month of entertainment for $15. Yup, pretty much exactly the value I'm looking for in an MMO. Hell, I'd consider $15 a month a value if I was only logging two hours a week. What the hell else entertains me for 8 hours for $15?

• Four film rental deal from Blockbuster
• Unlimited two-disc deal from Lovefilm.
• 2 20-mile LDWA (long distance walking association) events.
• 2 bottles of v. cheap vodka.

Yeah, I've already had this debate and I'm entirely in the same situation as you. 

[Threash]

I mostly completely ignore text.  

Yeah, we would not get along at all.  I can't stand it when people ignore chat.

[Mrbloodworth]

I'm sorry?

You could just talk you know.