This Was my Last MMO

[Thrawn]

I mostly completely ignore text.  

Yeah, we would not get along at all.  I can't stand it when people ignore chat.

This discussion could be a thread all it's own I'm sure.  If I'm playing ranked games of League of Legends I always use voip.  If I invite someone and they say they can't/won't/whatever get on it I boot them and find someone else.  I've played MMOs with guilds where raids were the same way, someone not on voice isn't even allowed to come.  (They don't have to talk, but they have to at least be able to listen.)

[Lantyssa]

And that saves us the hassle of having to put up with those types.  I wouldn't want to be a part of a guild that takes things so seriously.

Considering that I'm in an international guild with a Hungarian, a Dane, a Brit, several Norwegians, Canucks, and of course quite a few Americans (both coasts), text is a much better medium for all of us to communicate in -- accent bonanza or not. (read: my written English is a lot more understandable than trying to cut through my bad microphone AND my horribleawesome accent  )

Listening to accents is one of the few things I like about voice chat.

Thankfully I have a fairly neutral American accent.  For most words.

[Fabricated]

What's killing me right now is the lack of LFD. Most people just do dailies or go do the awful PVP on Ilum. It's literally easier to convince the guild to do a pickup Eternity Vault raid than it is to get someone to run a flashpoint which is just weird.

If you're going to make everyone stop whatever daily they're doing, zap back to the fleet, and go through like 4 loading screens to get into an FP (after which they'll have to go all the way back), it better be worth it. It isn't, unless maybe it's a raid. And that scenario is literally the most efficient one.

If your Emergency Fleet Pass is on CD or you didn't buy a Fleet Pass (from the authenticator vendor), it's awful. If your Quick Travel is also on CD and you're not to the area where a fleet transport is on whatever planet you're on it's hilariously awful.

-Ride to orbital station ship.
*loading screen*
-Take elevator to ship hold.
*loading screen*
-Fly to station.
*loading screen*
-Take elevator to interfleet transport.
*loading screen*
-Fly to ship you need, take elevator to FP entrance area.
*loading screen*
-Opening RP, enter FP.
*loading screen*
ACTUAL CONTENT.

[Nebu]

What's killing me right now is the lack of LFD. Most people just do dailies or go do the awful PVP on Ilum. It's literally easier to convince the guild to do a pickup Eternity Vault raid than it is to get someone to run a flashpoint which is just weird.

If you're going to make everyone stop whatever daily they're doing, zap back to the fleet, and go through like 4 loading screens to get into an FP (after which they'll have to go all the way back), it better be worth it. It isn't, unless maybe it's a raid.

You should be thankful there's no LFD.  If the level of pvp ability is any gauge of the talent of this game's playerbase, I don't want to run a hardmode with 99% of these people.  Ever. 

[apocrypha]

What's killing me right now is the lack of LFD.

Also my current largest gripe and the one that will drive me away if not rectified within a couple of months probably. I've seen hardly any of the FPs - I'm on at different times to most of BC (being a euro) and the server is very, very quiet when I am on.

As for voice comms, I use them all the time. I'm levelling an alt with a mate who's only on in the evenings and we're on Vent all the time. Even when he's not around I'm on vent with other friends (who are mostly playing STO). It feels really weird in the daytime when I'm playing and haven't got any voice chat going on. That said, I totally understand how some people don't like to do comms so I watch the text chat too, I'm used to it.

[Ingmar]

And that saves us the hassle of having to put up with those types.  I wouldn't want to be a part of a guild that takes things so seriously.

Considering that I'm in an international guild with a Hungarian, a Dane, a Brit, several Norwegians, Canucks, and of course quite a few Americans (both coasts), text is a much better medium for all of us to communicate in -- accent bonanza or not. (read: my written English is a lot more understandable than trying to cut through my bad microphone AND my horribleawesome accent  )

Listening to accents is one of the few things I like about voice chat.

Thankfully I have a fairly neutral American accent.  For most words.

We do make everyone get on Mumble to at least *listen* for raids, we just enforce it through guilt instead of rules. 

Like most of the people in the thread, I have no real interest in sitting on a voice server the entire time I'm playing, but for raids it is fine/necessary.

[Threash]

I always have vent going for raids, not because i've ever found it in any way helpful but because it is required of me.

[proudft]

Yeah, I am in the hate-voice-chat club.  If I wanted to talk to people I would see them in person.  I would rather wipe a few times and figure things out intuitively than have someone blabbing unnecessarily in my ear, but sadly, this would be asking a bit much of our skills as a whole in WoW and so I would sullenly listen and drag out the mic for the rare occasion I was tanking and needed to grudgingly mumble something.

I also think there is also a generational divide here - those whippersnappers love the Skype.

[Paelos]

I like it for raids and small groups. For regular everyday play? No.

[Ingmar]

I always have vent going for raids, not because i've ever found it in any way helpful but because it is required of me.

I take it you're not actually leading the raids. There are things that have to be communicated quickly sometimes that just can't wait for someone to type it out, especially if the person talking has to be doing anything complicated play-wise while the communication is going on.

[Threash]

I lead raids in EQ and WoW up to Naxx without voice chat, also lead a pvp group up to grand marshal without it.  I quit doing it when people started relying on someone else to tell them what to do rather than just knowing what they are supposed to do.  I didn't sign up for simon says, i do my job just fine without someone having to tell it to me.

[Fabricated]

So long as people are actually listening to it, Vent lets you react really fast in encounters. Being able to tell someone to move when they don't notice Gharj is going to pounce -immediately- is pretty helpful.

[Threash]

So long as people are actually listening to it, Vent lets you react really fast in encounters. Being able to tell someone to move when they don't notice Gharj is going to pounce -immediately- is pretty helpful.

Still inferior to having someone who notices wtf is going on by themselves.

[Ingmar]

Which is fine, until you have to tell your friend with the morphine drip sorry you can't join our club.

[Paelos]

We'd all love to play with players who are up-to-date, read the strats, know the fights, realize their job, and maintain appropriate gear.

Then you realize that even though you're playing in fantasy land, that's never the case. Also, you have to ask yourself: why you would bother playing a game that's so complicated or esoteric that you are required to spend time outside the game, reading about the game, just so that you can beat the game?

[Sjofn]

I got really good at giving instructions during WotLK. Early on I'd type them out and then answer questions on mumble, but once most of us knew the fights and there was just one person who was new or whatever, I'd say their specific instructions (as a healer, you just heal and don't stand in shit, as DPS, you're going to have to switch to adds during phase blah, that sort of shit), remind everyone not to stand in <whatever>, and off we'd go.

The only time it was a "problem" was when this one other fellow was in the raid, he liked to give everyone the run down (verbally) after I was finished. And he um. Took a while doing it. But he's such a sweetheart, who would stop him? No one. 

[Fordel]

Conversely I am terrible at giving directions.


"Handle your shit people"

[Ratman_tf]

I'm really surprised people don't complain about this more.

It seems absurd that friends with differing time /played are blocked from playing together in a multiplayer game in 2012.

It is a problem mmog designers continually ignore despite simple solutions being available since CoH, and despite the fact you would never get away with it in any other genre.

Can you seriously imagine EA setting the pointless ME multiplayer up with a restriction that you can only play with others if their Shep is +/- 2 levels of your own?

[armchair designer]

In retrospect, I would have made the flashpoints scale like the PvP mechanism, and give everyone their own level appropriate xp and lootz. Set up the flashpoints so the mechanics go from simple -> complex as you unlock them.

[/ad]

[Threash]

That's the worst part of it.  Their warfront scaling is already very very good, before geared 50s took over a level 10 felt like they could compete against anyone.

[Sky]

Listening to accents is one of the few things I like about voice chat.

I like to do bad accents, does that count?

I think Iain stabbed me through the internets once.

[UnSub]

People still use Text chat? I mean, other than linking and asking the occasional questions.

Yes. Please let all the other MMO game developers know that when you next visit the clubhouse.

[minirant]Text chat is a hygiene system and one that should still be considered the default form of communication in-game, yet too many MMOs - WAR, DCUO spring to mind - fail in offering any kind of basic functionality. I don't want to say that both of those games failed against expectations because their text chat sucked, but it really didn't help them build up a player base either.

Yes, we know there is voice chat, but not everyone wants to or is able to vent chat when they play. My experiences (of playing on US servers from Australia) have been very choppy at times, and if I can't hear what someone says, there is no point in being on vent. Text has failed me less than vent.

It's a text chat system. They've been worked on for a good few decades now. At the very least it should be as good as a free IRC app. If it isn't, players will notice and complain about it.[/minirant]

[Mrbloodworth]

So, what you are saying is. You don't like talking to people.

[Sjofn]

I'm not sure why "I don't like using voice chat" means "I don't like talking to people." I like talking to people fine, I just don't feel any huge need to do so over voice chat. Especially in a game like this, where I am trying to listen to voiceovers.

Shit, sometimes if I have something to say to Ingmar but it's during a cutscene, I use party chat instead of talking out loud. We both have headsets on, we're both listening to what's being said in-game, it's easier that way. :P

[pants]

This is my last MMO too.  I can see the grind too quickly, and after 13 years (Jesus) since I started in EQ, I'm tired of level grinds.  It's not you, it's me etc.

One other thing I have found interesting, is related to the storyline.  I had a similar problem in kotor.  I find it hard to get involved in any old republic storyline, since I know what will happen.  Whatever crisis will pass, and the republic will carry on fine for another 2000 years or so until the clone wars.  So I have real problems getting "into" the storyline.  I realize how ridiculous this seems since the whole thing is make believe, but it's my suspension of disbelief, and this is how I'm going to deal with it dammit.

Anyone else had similar thoughts, or am I completely off on a limb here?

[Sjofn]

While the Republic isn't really in any danger of falling, it's not like anything short of its destruction can't be terrible. That's how I look at it anyway. Yeah, if I fail, the Republic will survive, but it's more about making the people in the Republic have a less shitty/wartorn/whatever existance. I can let X happen, the Republic won't fall, but it still makes a difference to Joe Quest Giver if I succeed or not, as his base gets wiped out or everyone involved in a project dies or whatever, you know?

[Ratman_tf]

This is my last MMO too.  I can see the grind too quickly, and after 13 years (Jesus) since I started in EQ, I'm tired of level grinds.  It's not you, it's me etc.

One other thing I have found interesting, is related to the storyline.  I had a similar problem in kotor.  I find it hard to get involved in any old republic storyline, since I know what will happen.  Whatever crisis will pass, and the republic will carry on fine for another 2000 years or so until the clone wars.  So I have real problems getting "into" the storyline.  I realize how ridiculous this seems since the whole thing is make believe, but it's my suspension of disbelief, and this is how I'm going to deal with it dammit.

Anyone else had similar thoughts, or am I completely off on a limb here?

I've heard such thoughts about other stuff. Like the SW prequels even. I just don't grok it. To me, it's like saying you can't enjoy Saving Private Ryan because you know how the war will turn out.

[apocrypha]

I've heard such thoughts about other stuff. Like the SW prequels even. I just don't grok it. To me, it's like saying you can't enjoy Saving Private Ryan because you know how the war will turn out.

You don't watch Saving Private Ryan 7 times a week though (unless you're insane). 

[Margalis]

I've heard such thoughts about other stuff. Like the SW prequels even. I just don't grok it. To me, it's like saying you can't enjoy Saving Private Ryan because you know how the war will turn out.

But SPR is a story about characters, struggle, the human condition, etc.

SW is a fluffy epic space opera about laser swords and shit. Knowing that absolutely nothing of consequence happens in the story is a downer. I mean, if you look at what happened in the original trilogy, planets were destroyed, the Death Star was built and destroyed, the empire was overthrown, etc. Big events.

IMO prequels often feel this way. You already know what happens, you know it is of little consequence, you know it's to some degree a cash-in. It's hard for me to think of prequels in any genre that have a sense of urgency and excitement to them.

[Ratman_tf]

I've heard such thoughts about other stuff. Like the SW prequels even. I just don't grok it. To me, it's like saying you can't enjoy Saving Private Ryan because you know how the war will turn out.

But SPR is a story about characters, struggle, the human condition, etc.

SW is a fluffy epic space opera about laser swords and shit. Knowing that absolutely nothing of consequence happens in the story is a downer. I mean, if you look at what happened in the original trilogy, planets were destroyed, the Death Star was built and destroyed, the empire was overthrown, etc. Big events.

Star Wars is a story about characters. Luke, Leia, Chewie, Han, Lando. It's as much their stories as the story of the big events. Just like *gasp* SPR.
I understand the argument, I just don't feel it.

[Venkman]

I actually had the inverted problem with SWTOR. I used to (kinda) enjoy the SW EU material, so the KOTOR series worked well for me. A whole new part of a universe, at a different time with different things. I also enjoyed the Simarillion, the Commonwealth stories from Peter K Hamilton spanning different eras, the Culture series, etc.

The problem I had with SWTOR was the hamfisting they did to bring it up to canon.

I ran into Dodonna, Madine, Organa, etc, however-the-fuck-many thousands of years before ANH. Walker tech, hover tech, "could kill [Solo] because it's experimental" carbonite freezing all of the rulers of Taris, blasters, architecture on Tatooine that hasn't changed, stupid generator tech on Hoth that hasn't changed, Star Detroyers, all of Coruscant, "we've been destroying whole planets for millenia" super weapons, and so on. In fact, the only things that looked really different were some of the space craft.

I accept that SW is largely one dimensional, single-geology planets with a handful of races they always rotate through, and that lightsaber tech hasn't ever changed. And I get all the EU material in the world is one video edit away from retcon'ing. And I totally get why they would feel compelled (or be externally compelled) to bring it close to canon.

But I felt that all these references made it more jarring that you'll never meet Crix Madine, Leia Organa, that the shock value of the Death Star in ANH is diluted by the succession of super weapons, that carbonite isn't new and experimental, yadda yadda.

Dumb rant, but there it is :)

Also: text chat and a head phone. I don't have the lifestyle, nor give anywhere close to enough shit to lead raids nor game competitively. But I can listen just fine.

But business-wise, if you're game world is overly large, your dense areas too few, everyone's already noticed all the servers went from Heavy to Light, and general chat is largely empty outside of Fleet, it will feel empty.

Doesn't matter if it is empty. Just matters that it feels that way.

[apocrypha]

I totally agree Darniaq. Saying "it's 3000 years before the movies" and then making it all look exactly the same constantly grates for me. Especially when they could have just said "100 years" instead of 3000 and it would have been fine!

[Lakov_Sanite]

Wow was littered throughout with pop crude references. Nestor is littered throughout with one pop culture reference.

[Merusk]

So, what you are saying is. You don't like talking to people.

No, I like being able to ignore people and catch up on the conversation when I come back from an impromptu afk.  I also like to listen to music or have a show on and still be able to follow the chatter in the guild & zone.

Plus, deaf people rather like knowing wtf is going on, too.  (Which segues into a mini rant about you guys saying "just tint it" for the GCD.  Color blind people hate joo. No, they need to put big damn countdown numbers on them and be done with it. No more flashy/ glowy/ colored bits.  Just fucking numbers. It's not hard.)

[Paelos]

Right because we really need to design for the colorblind and deaf. 

At this point I'd just say that's what mods are for, but they fucked that up too.

[Lantyssa]

The problem I had with SWTOR was the hamfisting they did to bring it up to canon.

This is actually my biggest problem with the game.  Bigger than trying to be WoW-in-Space.  KoTOR felt like Star Wars, but in a different era.  SWTOR feels like it's set during the time of the movies.  More so than even SWG.