Elfbowl: Are You Ready for Some Touchdowns?

[Ruvaldt]

Elfbowl Season 1 Roster.

Keebler Division:
Gruntle -  Elf Hatred - Dark Elf
Haemish - The Pale Horses - Dark Elf
Llyse - Labor Day - High Elf
Ruvaldt - Haute Couture - High Elf
Ulysees - I Break Easy - Wood Elf
Eldaec - Guild of Fools - Pro Elf

North Pole Division:
Teleku - Chris Dane Owens Fan Club - Dark Elf
Megrim - Spiderland Reavers - Dark Elf
Strazos - Here Be DWAGONS - High Elf
IainC - Considerably Elfier - High Elf
Luckton - Morningwood Packers - Wood Elf
Comstar - Ponyelves II - Pro Elf

[lamaros]

I'm going to miss this. Not super keen on starting a new elf team, and I'm going away next week.

[Comstar]

Maybe limit the amount of rerolls to 2, plus 1 Leader reroll?

[eldaec]

Out of interest more than anything... why do that?

[Strazos]

Why do what, limit rerolls?

I guess I could be in, play a high elf team or something.

[IainC]

I'll be in for this.

Out of interest more than anything... why do that?

The reason fo rno rerolls is that otherwise it's going to be a game of perfect set-pieces back to back. Most Elf D6 rolls are 2+ affairs so rerolls make it the closest thing to a guaranteed success that you can get in BB. Most Elf teams can score the turn they get the ball unless they have just had it kicked to them, in which case they can hold it out of reach and score the next turn. There's almost no way in which an opponent can interrupt the process - if the team with the ball doesn't roll 1s then the TD happens and the defending team has no chance to prevent it because it all happens in one player's turn.

[Llyse]

I'm in although, limiting rerolls is kinda good but bad.

I mean aren't the rerolls priced differently for each elf team for balance?

So limiting rerolls means Pro elves are disadvantaged since they only pay 50,000 for each reroll?

[Ruvaldt]

Yeah, I'm actually pretty keen on having some rule regarding rerolls, and there seems to be some support for it.  The problem I have is the same one Llyse expressed: I don't want the league rules to favor one team type.  Pro Elves have all AV7 and expensive players, but they also have cheap rerolls to help ameliorate those costs.

Maybe a very small limit on rerolls, like Comstar suggested, rather than no rerolls?  I don't know...we've got plenty of time to talk about it and figure it out, and it looks like there is definitely enough interest to do this thing.

[eldaec]

Seems to me, the fewer restrictions you put in, the more variety you can have between teams. And lack of variety is usually the problem with these gimmick leagues.

[Comstar]

Well it's the first time this type has been run- anyone have any experience of playing in such a league? Go with no limits and see how it goes.

Also, would these teams be allowed to be imported to the Main league.

[eldaec]

I'm guessing 'no' on the main league question.

[IainC]

Surely it would be exactly the same as bringing in a team from the feeder league. As long as the team hasn't played any non-f13 matches and meets the TV limits I don't see why they couldn't be imported into a new main league.

[lamaros]

You would have to play it in the Feeder league like the D&M cup to be eligable. Falc's rules.

[Teleku]

I'm in!  And I support allowing as many re-rolls as you want.  Each side gets them, and the teams are balanced for them, so I don't see a problem.  I'm perfectly fine with the games consiting of each side 2 turn scoring against the other, in hilariously high scoring games.  That's actually the main reason I want to play.   

[Ruvaldt]

As long as the team hasn't played any non-f13 matches and meets the TV limits I don't see why they couldn't be imported into a new main league.

Neither do I since we're only playing the same people, and that's sort of the point for the Feeder League, but that's totally up to Falc, and I haven't even asked him about it.  Though I may now just out of curiosity.  It would be fun if that was allowed.

[Sjofn]

no rerolls no peace

[Ruvaldt]

Does that mean you'll be playing a male model themed high elf team, Sjofn?   

[Sjofn]

I am a little sad THE BLUE STEEL pro elf team I have in the feeder league played a pity-game versus proudft (which they lost, because I suck at pro elves most of all), otherwise I'd just use them! 

[Ruvaldt]

So I guess I'll be signing you up.

Make an Oklahoma themed Pro Elf team instead.  We can all sing "Pore Jud is Daid" when the inevitable happens.

"He looks like he's asleep, It's a shame that he won't keep- But it's summer and we're running out of ice."

[luckton]

I would be in.  As far as rerolls, I'd say no limit or nothing at all.

Question: Wood Elfs; Treemen or no Treemen?

[Ruvaldt]

I wouldn't bother in the beginning because in order to do so you essentially have to give up a war dancer.  After a while though they can actually be useful, and I would take one in a normal league because they're good at occupying some of the los and thus protecting the fragile elves.  

In this league, however, I'm not sure I would ever take a treeman because they're so damned slow and everyone else is going to be dodgey.  You might still think they'd be good for cage breaking, but as a wood elf you have some excellent cage breaking tools with your war dancer once you get her strip ball to complement leap.

[Sjofn]

Eh, don't sign me up yet, I need to mull it over a bit more.

[Scadente]

I'm In!

Dunno what race yet.

IMHO: As many RR as you want, and Woodies get the Treeman (he really is useless vs high agi teams, bar his... first block...).

[Modern Angel]

I'm in Welves. I reserve the right to switch if we have a zillion Welf teams.

Also, let people pick the treeman if they want. He's the worst big guy in the game so if someone wants to go with one, more power to him.

[Ingmar]

I'm probably going to give this one a pass (the theme leagues are proving to just not have enough variety game to game to keep me interested) but I think restricting rerolls is a bad idea. All it really does is penalize dark elves, who are the only ones that don't start with reroll skills already on their scoring pieces. I dunno, maybe you want to do that.

[Ruvaldt]

On the other hand, if Dark Elves didn't have to purchase rerolls during team creation they could afford a pretty spectacular set of positionals.  All four blitzers, two witch elves and a runner or assassin.  Normally that wouldn't be a strong team at TV1000 without rerolls, but if no one has rerolls it could be tough for other teams to play against them.  That said, allowing rerolls certainly looks like the majority opinion so far.

Variety has been lacking in the other theme leagues, but this one could easily be different as we are talking about four different races as opposed to just one.

I'm not sure what I'll be playing.  I've never played high elves so that's definitely calling me.

[Gruntle]

I would play but you might not want me to; I am horrible with elves, either playing them or playing against them. So I've come to passionately hate all elves in blood bowl. I confess up front that my goal if I were in the league would be to cause as much elf injury and death as possible (to yours and mine). I don't know if anyone would have much fun playing against that, on the one hand everyone is practically guaranteed a victory against my sELF-hating team (because again I 'm hopeless with or against elves) but on the other hand, I'll be the asshole doing fouls on turn 16, trying to wreck your players even when there's no immediate strategic gain (and elves are pretty expensive players). I just hate dem elves so damn much! So much! However if I was to play in the league, I do have a small sliver of hope that there's still a chance that with the right elf (like an assassin with multi-block who could stab up to 3 elves a turn) I might learn to love elves again.

But I'll leave it to everyone else in the league to decide if they want to play against a team with a goal like that, as I concede in most leagues I don't terribly enjoy playing against that mindset.

(As for whether or not to have rerolls I don't care much but just in terms of trying something different I'd vote against them, it's not like blood bowl is well-balanced anyway. I assume cas isn't the tie break this time? Goal difference, less goals against, what are the tie breaks going to be in this league?)

[Ruvaldt]

You should play, Gruntle.  That's a reasonable tactic, in my book.  I hate elves too, and revel in their destruction.  Just imagine, you'll have a whole stable full of them to butcher.

As for what will break ties, I don't know.  that's what this thread is for, I guess.  My opinion is that it should be goal difference because I think that it would reward defense as well as offense.

[Gruntle]

Well, I'm willing -- so sign me up, but if anyone voices any objection to my team (Hmm, "Elf-Hating Jews"? Even the name could be a problem) there then please remove it, no offense taken...

[Entwine]

I would play but you might not want me to; I am horrible with elves, either playing them or playing against them. So I've come to passionately hate all elves in blood bowl. I confess up front that my goal if I were in the league would be to cause as much elf injury and death as possible (to yours and mine). I don't know if anyone would have much fun playing against that, on the one hand everyone is practically guaranteed a victory against my sELF-hating team (because again I 'm hopeless with or against elves) but on the other hand, I'll be the asshole doing fouls on turn 16, trying to wreck your players even when there's no immediate strategic gain (and elves are pretty expensive players). I just hate dem elves so damn much! So much! However if I was to play in the league, I do have a small sliver of hope that there's still a chance that with the right elf (like an assassin with multi-block who could stab up to 3 elves a turn) I might learn to love elves again.

But I'll leave it to everyone else in the league to decide if they want to play against a team with a goal like that, as I concede in most leagues I don't terribly enjoy playing against that mindset.

(As for whether or not to have rerolls I don't care much but just in terms of trying something different I'd vote against them, it's not like blood bowl is well-balanced anyway. I assume cas isn't the tie break this time? Goal difference, less goals against, what are the tie breaks going to be in this league?)

Bring it Gruntle, flair and faggotry shall win teh day!

[Ruvaldt]

Entwine!  Do we have a new f13 Blood Bowler...?  Come on, you know you want to.   

[Ice Cream Emperor]

Peanut-gallery comments, since I don't really have time for more blood bowl:

You could simply force teams to start with no rerolls. Cheap-reroll teams would be able to buy their rerolls moderately faster -- while expensive reroll teams would have that additional expense doubled. As mentioned, teams that start with more key skills (pro elves, mostly?) would benefit from this rule, but it might at least create more dramatic games early on. On the other hand it might also dramatically increase the death-spiral snowballing effect of bad early injury luck, since saving up for expensive rerolls while simultaneously trying to replace dead positionals is a recipe for depression.

And contrary to the belief of seemingly everyone who ever predicts scores for main-league games involving elves, they really don't score every 2 turns, nor is scoring every 2 turns necessarily the best idea even if might otherwise be possible.

[Ulysees]

TBH I can't decide whether to join or not either given I didn't enjoy the H+HII league but that was because my team joined in season 2 and pretty much got pounded by better developed teams. Having said that I would be in on the ground floor here so will decide before the start date is finalised.

In terms of the rules I would say allow teams whatever players they want on them but for re-rolls limit it to 2 and only allow them to be used on blocks. Most positionals have built in re-rolls on them anyway and as IainC said failing a dodge or a pass or a catch with no modifiers is normally a 1-2 roll which is good odds in terms of risk but I hate rolling double skulls to end my damn turn so would not be averse to allowing re-rolls to be used for blocks only. That is just my personal preference and suggestion. The re-roll rule decision would not be a deciding factor on whether I join, it's the fact I suck at playing elves that woudl stop me, my luck just doesn't seem to run when my team consist of pointy eared faery's!

[luckton]

I say, in the spirit of Elfish Bullshit, that no Blocks be allowed at all!  You must win through pure force of will, the chance that you might tackle a bitch as they jump out of a TZ, and shear goddamned luck 

[Scadente]

About the RRs:

Keep in mind, that most teams will probably bulk up on Diving Tackle, Shadowing & Tackle = so those 2+  rolls, won't really be 2+ rolls - More like a 4+ and no RR or multiple 2+'s.

I know this is later down the line; but in an all AGI league I'll be spamming those skills, because they are super effective at stopping the pointy eared ones!

Just a thought!