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Author Topic: 2012 NBA  (Read 83645 times)
Hoax
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l33t kiddie


Reply #350 on: July 19, 2012, 09:35:00 AM

There is something horribly wrong with the nba's current setup. Whoever gets Bynum and D12 have a huge leg up because apparently every single "nba" center is worth 12mil+ per year and at that rate getting one of the two true superstar talents at center at 15mil per year is a fucking steal. What a joke.

There are just too many players making over 10mil a year while probably not being worth half of what the true superstar max contract guys are worth while costing almost as much.

Also is there a league where performance goes up more during contract years?

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
Mosesandstick
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Reply #351 on: July 19, 2012, 10:34:24 AM

Javale made huge strides in Denver. It's kind of hard to predict how good he's going to be.
ghost
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Reply #352 on: July 19, 2012, 11:13:59 AM

JeVale had 2 great games.  I'm not spending the money, but I bet they could have had him for less (or his equivalent at 10 ppg and 10 rpg)
Mosesandstick
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Reply #353 on: July 19, 2012, 11:34:03 AM

I think it's more Javale stopped acting like an idiot. He's not going to be worth it next year. Years after that? It's easy to understand why they would pay. High risk, high potential.
Paelos
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Reply #354 on: July 20, 2012, 07:15:11 AM

I think it's pretty clear that Dolan just didn't want to match the offer.  They could have dealt with it if they really wanted Lin.  And Lin would have, even if he was just mildly successful, a beneficial effect on Dolan's cashflow from increased popularity.

And, in part, I think that the Knicks actually made a choice based on their roster (and Carmelo's pushiness).  It wasn't really a bad choice for them. 

It's actually becoming crystal clear (through various media reports) that:

A - Carmelo did not want Lin around next season at all
and B - Dolan felt Lin "owed" the Knicks for his success, and wouldn't give him the deal because Lin dared to contract shop.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
ghost
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Reply #355 on: July 20, 2012, 07:42:45 AM

Lin better thank his lucky fucking stars that the Knicks didn't match the deal.  He could have ended up in a hellish situation there. 
Surlyboi
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eat a bag of dicks


Reply #356 on: July 20, 2012, 10:06:13 PM

I talked to one of the Knicks tonight, and he told me that the team as a whole liked Lin a lot more than they liked Melo. I'm not surprised by this at all.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
ghost
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Reply #357 on: August 09, 2012, 08:38:24 PM

Dwight Howard finally gets traded to the Lakers.  Now I can really dislike him.   Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Lakers get Howard.
Nuggests get Igoudala.
76ers get Andrew Bynum and Jason Richardson
Magic get shit (I mean Aaron Aflalo, Al Harrington, Nikola Vucevic) and a protected first round draft pick from each team (which is pretty good, although not great).
Mosesandstick
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Reply #358 on: August 09, 2012, 11:44:19 PM

Nash, Bryant, Gasol, Howard. Never imagined seeing those names together. Then again Payton, Bryant, Malone and O'Neal didn't work out so well.
Ghambit
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Reply #359 on: August 10, 2012, 04:44:11 AM

Just when I thought the Heat were gonna be on cruise control for a few yrs.   Facepalm
Starting to feel like the old NBA.  League contraction is happening on the roster scale evidently.  There will be 4 powerhouses and that's it.

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
ghost
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Reply #360 on: August 10, 2012, 04:55:48 AM

I'm really surprised they didn't trade Gasol.  I think that lineup is easily on par with any other in the league.  

I'm also going to predict that Bynum will implode in Philly.  He's close to home and has too much of that "crazy bastard" aura about him.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 06:02:05 AM by ghost »
Paelos
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Reply #361 on: August 10, 2012, 06:11:37 AM

Just when I thought the Heat were gonna be on cruise control for a few yrs.   Facepalm
Starting to feel like the old NBA.  League contraction is happening on the roster scale evidently.  There will be 4 powerhouses and that's it.

I like it. The league seems unwilling to get rid of the crap teams, so the players are doing the next best thing.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
ghost
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Reply #362 on: August 10, 2012, 06:48:43 AM

I would be very surprised to see contraction of a US based team in any sport.  Still, looking at attendance figures from 2011 suggests that the usual suspects of the Hornets, Bobcats, Kings, and Grizzlies could all be good deductions from the league.  These four teams have little history and don't really appear to going anywhere.  The Pistons, Pacers, Nets, Cavs, Hawks, Bucks, Timberwolves,and Wizards all have a little history but several of them could stand to go, too.  Primary targets, in my opinion, would be the Bucks, T Wolves and Wizards. 

Personally, if I were Stern I'd get rid of the Grizzlies, Bobcats, Timberwolves and possibly the Wizards or Bucks. 
Paelos
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Reply #363 on: August 10, 2012, 07:44:46 AM

The Pacers have been in freefall for attendence since 2005. I have no idea why that might be, other than the fact the Colts were really awesome in that period, and Indiana went through a 4 year playoff drought.

Still, they went to the playoffs in 2010, dead last in attendence. They were 3rd in the conference in 2012, 2nd to dead last in attendence. WHAT? Even the Hawks with our shitty Joe Johnson contract and non-existant point guard play drew 1000 more people a game than that.

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cmlancas
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Reply #364 on: August 10, 2012, 08:01:29 AM

Sometimes interest for a sport just wanes.

Tampa Bay lightning were that way the second year after the cup -- attendance was just way down.

(As an aside, I find it very strange that I haven't posted in at least two years and decide to post in an NBA thread....hmmm  DRILLING AND MANLINESS)

f13 Street Cred of the week:
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Paelos
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Reply #365 on: August 10, 2012, 08:02:40 AM

Welcome back. You'll find this little corner of the forum is much more fun than the others. Just don't talk about cycling.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
ghost
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Reply #366 on: August 10, 2012, 09:12:16 AM

And don't get into the middle of one of the "I'm right" discussions that Paelos and I get into about once a month.  

Edited to add:  And fuck you, Paelos.   awesome, for real
cmlancas
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Reply #367 on: August 10, 2012, 09:17:58 AM

From what I can remember, Big P was a little tamer than other f13 posters.  :)

From someone who's been an ORL fan for about as long as I can remember (I was 10ish in the days of Penny, Horace, and Shaq), I've never seen someone whine as much as Dwight Howard.  Dwight Howard coudl've been a legend in Orlando a la Evan Longoria for the Rays or Vinny Lecavalier for the Lightning.  Fans in Florida love to have a face of an organization even more than the Colts loved Manning -- think Tebow and UF.

Watching someone cry his way to the firing of one of the truly great basketball coaches and eventual trade drives me crazy.

f13 Street Cred of the week:
I can't promise anything other than trauma and tragedy. -- schild
ghost
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Reply #368 on: August 10, 2012, 09:49:46 AM

I'm not a big Dwight Howard fan either.  You see a certain level of whininess, petulance and entitlement expectation in all superstars.  Lebron has it a bit, Koby has it a bit, MJ had it....it's part of the gig.  But all of these guys didn't let the metagame that they were playing intrude into their on the court performance.  In some instances (like Koby) he let the metagame elevate his game.  Dwight doesn't seem to have that.  He wants to blame everyone else but himself for the team's problems.  Koby and Nash and the other Lakers that have been to championships won't put up with that shit.  He won't be there longer than a year if he can't get it together.
trias_e
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Reply #369 on: August 10, 2012, 09:56:05 AM

Orlando?  What in the fuck?  How in the world do you trade Dwight Howard and not get Bynum back?  What a terrible deal for them.  It's not as if they even get decent picks for a rebuild, because all the teams involved are going to be good. 
cmlancas
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Reply #370 on: August 10, 2012, 10:04:36 AM

Orlando?  What in the fuck?  How in the world do you trade Dwight Howard and not get Bynum back?  What a terrible deal for them.  It's not as if they even get decent picks for a rebuild, because all the teams involved are going to be good. 

I think you're underestimating just how good three first rounders (four if you count the one that was already drafted) are.  In the short term, it sucks.  In the long term, they'll be stronger for this.

I actually think LA is taking a big chance here...if Captain Crybaby hates LA, he signs with Dallas to fashion moneyhats, and LA loses.

Hi Android browser, quit being such a pain in the ass transposing my letters when I post.   swamp poop

f13 Street Cred of the week:
I can't promise anything other than trauma and tragedy. -- schild
Ingmar
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Reply #371 on: August 10, 2012, 11:11:36 AM

Just when you thought the NBA was starting to get a glimmer of an idea of what the words "competitive balance" mean...

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Paelos
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Reply #372 on: August 10, 2012, 11:12:07 AM

Just when you thought the NBA was starting to get a glimmer of an idea of what the words "competitive balance" mean...

I don't think the fans actually want that.

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trias_e
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Reply #373 on: August 10, 2012, 11:19:46 AM

Orlando?  What in the fuck?  How in the world do you trade Dwight Howard and not get Bynum back?  What a terrible deal for them.  It's not as if they even get decent picks for a rebuild, because all the teams involved are going to be good. 

I think you're underestimating just how good three first rounders (four if you count the one that was already drafted) are.  In the short term, it sucks.  In the long term, they'll be stronger for this.

I actually think LA is taking a big chance here...if Captain Crybaby hates LA, he signs with Dallas to fashion moneyhats, and LA loses.

Hi Android browser, quit being such a pain in the ass transposing my letters when I post.   swamp poop

Late first round draft picks aren't that great.  You have a 1/2 chance of picking someone that will even stick around in the NBA.  The 16-23 range is much better than the 23-30 range, but the L.A. pick is certainly going to be in the later range and of little value.  Denver and Philly both get better from this deal making their picks worse as well.
ghost
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Reply #374 on: August 10, 2012, 11:22:50 AM

Orlando?  What in the fuck?  How in the world do you trade Dwight Howard and not get Bynum back?  What a terrible deal for them.  It's not as if they even get decent picks for a rebuild, because all the teams involved are going to be good. 

I think you're underestimating just how good three first rounders (four if you count the one that was already drafted) are.  In the short term, it sucks.  In the long term, they'll be stronger for this.

I actually think LA is taking a big chance here...if Captain Crybaby hates LA, he signs with Dallas to fashion moneyhats, and LA loses.

Hi Android browser, quit being such a pain in the ass transposing my letters when I post.   swamp poop

Yeah, you can't look at the players that Orlando got back in return.  They were just trying to get draft rights.  Those guys won't be around long, I'd imagine. 
cmlancas
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Reply #375 on: August 10, 2012, 11:36:30 AM

From Orlando's perspective, here's what they're working with:

Plan A:  Extremely talented, discontented center plays for one year while wishing he was elsewhere

or

Plan B: Four players with lots of upside and three guaranteed first round picks.

Both plans A and B don't bring home a championship -- I think ORL's GM did very well here and should be pleased.




f13 Street Cred of the week:
I can't promise anything other than trauma and tragedy. -- schild
Ingmar
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Reply #376 on: August 10, 2012, 11:46:44 AM

Analysts apparently do not agree:


John Hollinger:
Quote
This deal makes a mockery of the new collective bargaining agreement's alleged fairness to small markets; Orlando is selling one of the best players in the NBA for pennies on the dollar, while the rich only get richer. (But the tax-paying Lakers can't sign-and-trade Matt Barnes -- that'll show 'em!)

J.A. Adande:
Quote
The astonishing team was Orlando. They moved the best player involved and didn't get the second- or third-best player back. The Magic realized from the outset that they weren't going to win the Dwight Howard trade. That didn't mean they had to settle for fourth place.

Simmons:
Quote
Was it a bad sign for Orlando that they got significantly less for the league's only dominant center than the Hornets got for Chris Paul and the Nuggets got for Carmelo Anthony? I'm going out on a limb and saying "yes." Had I been running the Magic, there would have been a zero percent chance — repeat: zero percent chance — that I was trading Howard unless I was getting Bynum back AND dumping Turkoglu's contract. Without those two things, I'm just keeping Howard, letting the soap opera drag on and on for a few more months, then hoping I could do better in February.

And guess what? I'm pretty sure that, six months from now, Philly, Denver and the Lakers would all still want to do a four-team trade in which all of them made out great and the Magic made out like crap. I hate how Orlando handled this saga; I hate that they caved; and I hate this trade for them.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
cmlancas
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Reply #377 on: August 10, 2012, 11:58:48 AM

Maybe this comes from my personal life experience, but sometimes you're so ready to be done with something that you'll take less than you deserve.

Dammit Adande, usually you and I are right on the same page.   Heartbreak

Anyway, it'll be two or three years before anyone can truly determine who made out best due to drafting and whatnot...I still remember the analysts who said Steven Stamkos was the "worst #1 overall in the last ten years."  Lawl.

f13 Street Cred of the week:
I can't promise anything other than trauma and tragedy. -- schild
Ingmar
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Reply #378 on: August 10, 2012, 12:03:27 PM

Oh no doubt they could be wrong, and you also have to take Simmons with a grain of salt whenever the Lakers are in the conversation.

That said Orlando had the best center in the league for what, like 11 or 12 of the last 20 years? And managed no titles. Write it on their tombstones.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Paelos
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Reply #379 on: August 10, 2012, 12:08:10 PM

There was no such thing as a "good" trade for Howard. They lost that battle when it became more than public knowledge he was mentally done with Orlando. Who was going to offer fair value to a team that's absolutely desperate to sell? Nobody.

Also, the rich get richer stuff is nonsense. Orlando was second behind the Lakers in team salary, and it's a salary cap league. Come on.

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Ingmar
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Reply #380 on: August 10, 2012, 12:20:12 PM

It's rich get richer in a historical sense.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
cmlancas
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Reply #381 on: August 10, 2012, 12:25:25 PM

It's rich get richer in a historical sense.

So champs get champier?

I wonder if basketball is evolving to essentially what baseball is now, with a few teams (read:  Heat and Lakers) evolving into NYY as the "place to play."

And I don't mean a place to get paid.  My dad works with a former MLB pitcher's (13-year veteran) mother.  He pitched for the Reds most of his career and toward the tail end was scooped up by the Yankees.  He's a big guy...6'7", iirc.  When he played for other organizations, he'd commonly ask to get moved either into an emergency exit row or business class on flights since he had such long legs.  On his first flight with his new team, he asked the travel coordinator the same thing he'd been asking for years.

The coordinator looked at him with as though he had two heads and replied, "Mr.  XXXX, we only fly first class."

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I can't promise anything other than trauma and tragedy. -- schild
Ingmar
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Reply #382 on: August 10, 2012, 12:35:42 PM

The NBA has always been that, it is actually far worse than baseball. Something like half or more of all the Finals spots ever have been the Lakers or Celtics.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Paelos
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Reply #383 on: August 10, 2012, 12:52:47 PM

The NBA understands what its fans want, and they deliver it in mass quantities. Call it fixing, call it coddling, call it whatever. They incentivize big named guys on big market teams because that's what sells. NBA finals clenching game with Miami and the Thunder? A national TV rating of an 11. The 2010 finals game 7 with the Celtics and Lakers? That pulled a 15.6 for the highest rated finals game in history.

The worst finals in recent NBA history? The 2003 matchup between San Antonio and the NJ Nets. Not a single game in the entire series got over an 8. At it's lowest, game 2 got a 5 rating. Family Guy repeats on FOX do better than that.

Why did that happen? Because it was the first time in years the Lakers weren't involved in the finals. The next time was 2005 when the Pistons played the Spurs. Guess what happened? Ratings produced the second record low for TV. Funny because in 2004 when the Lakers played the Pistons, Game 5 produced the second most watched game in Finals history. Hmmmm.

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caladein
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WWW
Reply #384 on: August 10, 2012, 06:12:26 PM

You don't need to fix anything.  Orlando is incompetently run, possibly by ownership and not basketball staff, but everyone else got something they wanted.

The Lakers are willing to spend money, are able to offer players a number of intangibles like Los Angeles and a commitment to winning, and are smartly run.  This deal for the Lakers was basically Howard for Bynum, a player they developed from teenager to All-Star and sold high on.  People have been killing the team for years for not dumping Bynum and/or Gasol.  Same with the Odom trade exception last season.  Now, with a bit of luck and a lot of hard work executing another hugely complicated trade for a Top Five player, the Lakers can roll out Howard, Pau, Ron-Ron, Kobe, and Nash.

The Spurs were awful one year and it was the right one and got Duncan.  The Thunder traded a player with a heart problem for Perk, got Durant instead of Oden, and picked up a future All-Star in very late 1st round in Ibaka.  The Celtics were less "lucky" but also got players a lot older and have a title and a lot of injury-related heartbreak to show for it.  Miami got Toronto and Cleveland to agree to trades too remember.

The Knicks could have done it, but picked a volume scorer and a guy with as many knee surgeries as my Dad.  The Nets tried to do it, but got a bit impatient and figured the ECF was good enough to start out with.  The Bulls are cheap.  The Clippers can't do it as long as Sterling is around.  Golden State maybe?

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