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Author Topic: Cipher Agent 9: The self-destructing thread (or IA asscatery)  (Read 21962 times)
Njal
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Reply #35 on: January 26, 2012, 10:09:20 AM

I can only compare the right tree with my operative. In pve as long as I remember to use stim boost(?) I don't have a problem. In most pvp it isn't a problem as engagements are quick, however in a long one I usually run very low and have to remember to use stim boost and or adrenaline burst or whatever it is.

I find that the basic attack does good damage so I try to throw in every third or fourth as a basic attack. It does make it a pain setting up the full dot chain which as you know involves 5 different skills and I don't like to throw in a basic when it's hard enough to get all of them off if things are hairy.
Paroid
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More Grief Titles Than Posts


Reply #36 on: January 26, 2012, 10:39:00 AM


Has anyone played with hybrid specs?  What results have you had?

Thanks!


I've had a 50 sniper for a week or two and I've mostly been Lethality.  I respecced to MM but after about 5 warzones I couldn't take it anymore.  Lethality just doesn't have to care if you are fighting a tank or a squishy.

I used a Hybrid spec leveling up based off of 0/11/11.  I went for the lots of dots and +aoe damage.  This was probably a bad spec, as I remember dying a lot.  A ton actually.  Eventually when I got the healing companion I stopped dying so much.

I continued the hybrid spec into 50, going 0/20/21, but when I respecced Lethality 7/3/31 my pvp and pve survivability went up tremendously.  Ballistic Dampeners seem to be an absolute requirement to win any one on one situation.  They also make pve boss fights when I inevitably pull aggro not nearly as bad.  If I'm careful about cooldowns I can actually tank a boss for 20 seconds or so, which has let my group get a few clutch kills in flashpoints.

Yes, energy management in Lethality means using a lot of Rifle Shot.  For sustained fights, you absolutely need to wait for energy to get back up to 90 before using Cull.  If you're lucky you can get 2 uses of Cull between re-applying dots.  Without a combat log it's really hard for me to tell if Lethality is superior to MM, but it seems to be all about putting on pressure.  Dots can be applied while you're running and keep on ticking when you've been stunned.
kildorn
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Reply #37 on: January 27, 2012, 06:55:56 AM

Lethality's enegy use isn't THAT bad if you don't hyper focus on using Cull every time you can. But the spec does assume a lot of things, like you are going to burn TA on Stims every time it's up instead of Cull, and that you're going to use adrenal probe to fix long term regen issues if you burst.

Cull does absolutely hilarious damage if you can manage to find yourself with two stacks of TA and both DoTs up. But the whole spec feels like it's both awesome, and at war with the IA/Smuggler mechanics.
Nebu
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Reply #38 on: January 27, 2012, 10:07:47 AM

Cull does absolutely hilarious damage if you can manage to find yourself with two stacks of TA and both DoTs up. But the whole spec feels like it's both awesome, and at war with the IA/Smuggler mechanics.

I ended up dropping the top 6 points of the lethality tree.  The 30% debuff seems to only affect poison damage and it takes quite a bit of energy and instead just use the armor debuff. I used the points to go up engineering and pick up interrogation probe, which I'm pretty unimpressed with.  I can still put up 250k in huttball without breaking a sweat, but there were a half dozen times I ran out of power soloing someone (usually a stealther). 

I want a spec primarily for pvp, but can't seem to find a good fit.  Marksman is great burst but too stationary.  Lethality is great sustained damage, but too energy starved.  Perhaps it's time to try full engineering spec?



"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Furiously
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Reply #39 on: January 28, 2012, 02:32:54 AM

I think I might try the concealment spec for my operative. At least enjoy it for two days before the nerf. It looks like it will still be fairly op after the nerf if you pick your targets. Healing in warzones just doesn't pay right now.

caladein
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Reply #40 on: February 07, 2012, 11:38:44 AM

Since I was just able to see this as of today's patch, here are the Operative/Scoundrel abilities that are off GCD:

Adrenaline Probe / Cool Head
Cloaking Screen / Disappearing Act
Countermeasures / Surrender
Crouch
Distraction
Escape / Dodge
Evasion
Heroic Moment: Advanced Recon / Heroic Moment: All In
Shield Probe / Defense
Sneak
Stim Boost / Pugnacity
Take Cover

Also, Medpacs, Med Units, Adrenals, and Relics are off the GCD as well.

"Point being, they can't make everyone happy, so I hope they pick me." -Ingmar
"OH MY GOD WE'RE SURROUNDED SEND FOR BACKUP DIG IN DEFENSIVE POSITIONS MAN YOUR NECKBEARDS" -tgr
Ghambit
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Reply #41 on: February 07, 2012, 12:06:35 PM

Is that only for ops/scoundrels or sniper/slingers as well?
Seems like they're definitely upping the survivability factor here.   Ohhhhh, I see.

Not sure cover should be off the GCD though.

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
caladein
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Reply #42 on: February 07, 2012, 01:23:50 PM

I'd imagine the shared abilities are the same, it's just that I have an Op so that's what I was able to check.  With Crouch off the GCD though, that might make Explosive Probe useful filler if a) there were macros and b) I wasn't completely out of hotbar space.

And these things being off GCD isn't new as far as I can tell, it's just that it's a lot easier to see.

"Point being, they can't make everyone happy, so I hope they pick me." -Ingmar
"OH MY GOD WE'RE SURROUNDED SEND FOR BACKUP DIG IN DEFENSIVE POSITIONS MAN YOUR NECKBEARDS" -tgr
Nebu
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Reply #43 on: February 07, 2012, 01:28:50 PM

Is that only for ops/scoundrels or sniper/slingers as well?
Seems like they're definitely upping the survivability factor here.   Ohhhhh, I see.

Not sure cover should be off the GCD though.

Interesting as I never felt survivability was the issue.  I always felt that, as a dps generator, I could never keep up with most other classes in terms of dps.  Snipers take too long to generate their dps and have to really manage their power to sustain it.  I didn't really notice this until I started running flashpoints on other classes.  Sorcs, Shadows, Sentinels, and Vanguards all put up much faster dps with less management.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Ghambit
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Reply #44 on: February 07, 2012, 08:59:33 PM

I never thought survivability was the issue either, especially as an engi.  But those abilities that are now off GCD would say BW thought otherwise.  Oh well, I'll just be the last one dead just like I've always been.  Shield Probe+Evade+legshot+run away == never should die in pve.  Matter of fact, it's the Sniper's job to res after a TPK.   Ohhhhh, I see.

I'd imagine the shared abilities are the same, it's just that I have an Op so that's what I was able to check.  With Crouch off the GCD though, that might make Explosive Probe useful filler if a) there were macros and b) I wasn't completely out of hotbar space.

And these things being off GCD isn't new as far as I can tell, it's just that it's a lot easier to see.

Explosive probe on the engi. tree gives "3 cluster bombs" that proc with blaster fire.  Combined with electrified Series of Shots it's quite beastly. 
Add that to the synergy between interrogation probe and adrenalin probe (the latter resets its CD with the former being buffed by EMP discharge) and plasma probe and you've got a pretty potent DoT build.  Timing is tricky though and it can get quite busy, but when done right you should be forced to use countermeasures. Also, 'nades crit much much harder than blaster fire, so grenades (assuming you have the energy) should be a preferred attk unless aoe isnt welcome.  Snipe should never be used unless aimed and after it becomes instant.  Also on the engi. tree, explosive probe regenerates energy, for every cluster bomb... so yah   Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?  I rarely have energy problems.

Definitely a high management class though as said.  I enjoy playing it tbh.
And once the poison dart and armor debuff are out the dmg. is pretty steady. 

Marksman I'm sure are still better in boss fights though; just depends on how long the fight is.

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
Sky
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Reply #45 on: February 13, 2012, 01:34:05 PM

I'm playing a lowbie Op when my buddy comes over on sundays, he likes the nutshots and dialog.

Just hit 11 and picked the AC, is there a reason to worry about laying out controls for cover as an op, or should I focus on my stealth setup (mostly cribbing layout from my shadow)?
Ingmar
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Reply #46 on: February 13, 2012, 01:36:16 PM

You probably won't want to use cover much, if at all.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
caladein
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Reply #47 on: February 13, 2012, 01:43:25 PM

If you're not healing you can safely ignore setting up your Cover bar until 50.  You might want to drop into it for a Snipe once in a blue moon, but that's it.

"Point being, they can't make everyone happy, so I hope they pick me." -Ingmar
"OH MY GOD WE'RE SURROUNDED SEND FOR BACKUP DIG IN DEFENSIVE POSITIONS MAN YOUR NECKBEARDS" -tgr
Lantyssa
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Reply #48 on: February 13, 2012, 02:15:28 PM

I never use cover on my Operative.  I also remapped F to crouch so I don't accidentally roll across half the map and pull myself out of cover.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
amiable
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Reply #49 on: February 13, 2012, 02:55:53 PM

Protip:  cover makes you immuneto pull/charge.  Youshould use it a lot in huttball.
proudft
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Reply #50 on: February 13, 2012, 03:01:01 PM

I like to blast agents out of cover with my Concussion Charge or Stockstrike and imagine that it makes them cry... but it probably doesn't, since they can just rehunker immediately.
Nevermore
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Reply #51 on: February 13, 2012, 03:02:52 PM

I'm playing a lowbie Op when my buddy comes over on sundays, he likes the nutshots and dialog.

Just hit 11 and picked the AC, is there a reason to worry about laying out controls for cover as an op, or should I focus on my stealth setup (mostly cribbing layout from my shadow)?

I thought the nutshot animation was only for Smugglers.

Over and out.
Ingmar
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Reply #52 on: February 13, 2012, 03:04:40 PM

Yeah my Operative just stabs people with an electric knife. While that's cool, it doesn't have quite the visceral satisfaction of the nutshot.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
proudft
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Reply #53 on: February 13, 2012, 03:21:08 PM

Yeah, our jedi knight/smuggler duo always cracks me up when it is some bad guy blabbering at us about how we are doomed and all and he finishes with AND NOW YOU DIE.

Cue the combination force choke (I don't care what they call it, it's force choke) and kick to the groin.  Hilarity every time.

Sky
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Reply #54 on: February 13, 2012, 03:50:35 PM

I thought the nutshot animation was only for Smugglers.
My bad, meant scoundrel.
Flinky
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Reply #55 on: February 14, 2012, 02:54:25 AM

As hilarious as nutshots are, as a Concealment Operative its a little silly just how many blades you can leave in a person at any one time.

Almost 30 now and its only been the last few levels where I've felt I've been able to do the type of steady (melee) damage in PvE it seems the class was built for. That being said, if you can't time your hits to kill mobs you're put in a pretty rough spot rotation-wise. Having a spec focused around a consumable buff mechanic can be a little frustrating when you have only two ways to generate the buff - and one is killing what you're fighting.

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Xilren's Twin
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Reply #56 on: February 14, 2012, 04:47:25 AM

As hilarious as nutshots are, as a Concealment Operative its a little silly just how many blades you can leave in a person at any one time.

Almost 30 now and its only been the last few levels where I've felt I've been able to do the type of steady (melee) damage in PvE it seems the class was built for. That being said, if you can't time your hits to kill mobs you're put in a pretty rough spot rotation-wise. Having a spec focused around a consumable buff mechanic can be a little frustrating when you have only two ways to generate the buff - and one is killing what you're fighting.

Life gets much easier for an Op once you get the healing companion since you have always been able to out DPS your other ones.
Plus I usually drop a injection on myself to generate the TA to fire the buff before entering any potentially tough fight.  It's not hard to keep it up all the time, and right now the blade rotation usually never drops my energy below 80% through out combat.

And playing through Taris and the B planets really makes me happy i picked a class with Stealth.

"..but I'm by no means normal." - Schild
Flinky
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Reply #57 on: February 14, 2012, 06:19:17 AM

Life gets much easier for an Op once you get the healing companion since you have always been able to out DPS your other ones.
Plus I usually drop a injection on myself to generate the TA to fire the buff before entering any potentially tough fight.  It's not hard to keep it up all the time, and right now the blade rotation usually never drops my energy below 80% through out combat.

And playing through Taris and the B planets really makes me happy i picked a class with Stealth.

Stealth is what keeps me coming back to the Op. Also, ranged saps. Was doing Heroics with an Inquisitor and Assassin the other day and we just created a lane of incapped mobs the Inq could run up straight to the objective.

If you get an injection to put up TA before a fight, that'll be real handy. My main problem at the moment in trying to get a full melee rotation happening is it needs Laceration to fill in between Backstab and Shiv. And there are occasions where you just...run out of TA between Shivs.

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Njal
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Reply #58 on: February 14, 2012, 06:46:21 AM

I had some fun in an Alderaan instance the other day we were winning handily so me and another Op snuck into the central point where the enemy were doing nothing much for some reason. We kept sneaking up and Sleep darting them since they were out of combat which caused them to run around trying fruitlessly to find us.

It would work quite well now that I think of it on lightly defended points when the enemy is out of combat. Sleep dart is useless most of the time in pvp but it does have its uses in the right circumstances.
amiable
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Reply #59 on: March 09, 2012, 04:16:33 AM

Ha!  You know your class is screwed when the devs start trolling in your class forums.

Quote
Hey,

We're perfectly aware that this difference exists.

It's because, shockingly, Agents are not Inquisitors.

The mirror class for the Agent is the Smuggler, the mirror class for the Inquisitor is the Consular.

Just in case it wasn't clear: We have different classes in the game - that means they actually have different abilities, energy systems, costs, etc. In short: It's working as designed.

Georg


edit: fixed a typo where "Consular" should have appeared!
Fordel
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Reply #60 on: May 16, 2012, 05:41:00 PM

Doctor Lokin, great flavor, shitty mechanics.


He can't use his special attacks in healing stance, he can't use his heals in 'dps' stance and he drops 'dps' stance every time you stealth.


What a pain in the butt.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Nevermore
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Reply #61 on: May 20, 2012, 05:29:09 PM

So I finally got my Op into Act II and story-wise this shit just got real.  shocked

Over and out.
Fordel
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Reply #62 on: May 20, 2012, 05:34:01 PM

The Agent act 2 might be the best one in the entire game. Just for the story device they use.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
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