Noob questions

[Zetor]

Note that this is heavily class-dependent. Some ACs get all their good abilities early, while others have to wait until the 30s [or even early 40s] for them. This both depends on stock class abilities and the way the talent tree is structured. Higher-level characters will also have an edge when it comes to utilities/CC/cooldowns, but I suppose this is to be expected.

For example, healer operatives have really crappy and interruptible healing which runs you out of energy really quick until level 20ish, then they get a stackable hot that makes things a LITTLE better. At 30ish they get an instant energy-free heal powered by TA that heals for a ton (and solves both mobility and energy problems that are pretty prevalent until then), and finally they get their only aoe heal at 40ish which makes their throughput skyrocket in places like novare and voidstar. OTOH I could see something like a powertech/vanguard doing well from level 10, as they get most of their class-defining abilities early.

[DraconianOne]

So I played a ton of pvp today on my 28 29 shadow (leveled through pvp). Well I guess I was worried about nothing in a way. I still haven't bought a new mouse but I did ok. My main problems can't be solved with a mouse: other players just moved too fast for me to keep up and I had no idea what I was doing. I just followed the zerg around and hoped for the best lol.

Here's something I didn't expect. I thought pvp would be like DAoC's battlegrounds but all levels were kind of thrown in. There was a buff to make us all 49 from what I was told. Does anyone know what that covers? For example I figure it covers obvious things like armor, endurance,  and primary dmg stat, but what about absorption, power, crit, and surge?

From memory, the way the Bolster mechanism works is that it works on a multiplier basis - so it takes your level and uses a multiplier to make you equivalent to a level 49 player. So, for example, at level 29 your Shadow would have a base pre-gear bonus stat of 166 Willpower and at level 49 it would be 246 - so a multiplier of 1.48 would be used in warzones.  This applies to all of your stats - primary (willpower, strength etc), auxiliary (endurance) and advanced (power, crit, surge etc.).

Gear is affected by the same multiplier though so if you're under geared at level 29 then you may find that someone who has a base level of 10 and is in appropriate level green gear will have higher stats than you after Bolstering.

Level 50 becomes more of a gear dependent game, unfortunately, although I gather they're trying to make it less so. I'll believe it when I see it.

[Raguel]

So I played a ton of pvp today on my 28 29 shadow (leveled through pvp). Well I guess I was worried about nothing in a way. I still haven't bought a new mouse but I did ok. My main problems can't be solved with a mouse: other players just moved too fast for me to keep up and I had no idea what I was doing. I just followed the zerg around and hoped for the best lol.

Here's something I didn't expect. I thought pvp would be like DAoC's battlegrounds but all levels were kind of thrown in. There was a buff to make us all 49 from what I was told. Does anyone know what that covers? For example I figure it covers obvious things like armor, endurance,  and primary dmg stat, but what about absorption, power, crit, and surge?

From memory, the way the Bolster mechanism works is that it works on a multiplier basis - so it takes your level and uses a multiplier to make you equivalent to a level 49 player. So, for example, at level 29 your Shadow would have a base pre-gear bonus stat of 166 Willpower and at level 49 it would be 246 - so a multiplier of 1.48 would be used in warzones.  This applies to all of your stats - primary (willpower, strength etc), auxiliary (endurance) and advanced (power, crit, surge etc.).

Gear is affected by the same multiplier though so if you're under geared at level 29 then you may find that someone who has a base level of 10 and is in appropriate level green gear will have higher stats than you after Bolstering.

Level 50 becomes more of a gear dependent game, unfortunately, although I gather they're trying to make it less so. I'll believe it when I see it.

The main reason I asked is that, because I have several crafter alts, I have some augments so I have like 46% shield chance (with shadow buff) and about 36% absorb but I don't think those increased, but I'll check later.

[Fordel]

Sadly, shielding/absorb/defense are all pretty lack luster in a typical pvp environment. The distribution of attack types on player abilities mostly all just bypass those defenses entirely.

[koro]

I dunno, my Juggernaut tank in mostly top-end PvE gear is pretty sturdy in 50s PvP. There were a couple Voidstar maps where I could guard a door with a single healer and nobody else, and nearly the entire enemy team could quite literally not kill me.

But yes, you're mostly right. Shield and Absorb aren't that great in a PvP environment, though Defense is. Even in PvE, Shield/Absorb is kind of sketchy at times. There are several end-game bosses who simply cannot be shielded or defended against.

[DraconianOne]

As I recall (been a while since I pvp'd with my Vanguard) the issue with shield and defence stats in PvP is that they don't stop Force or Tech attacks and pretty much all special moves are one of those.

[Fordel]

Pretty much, outside of a bunch of Sniper/Gunslinger things.




There's also some shenanigans where crits overwrite shield chance on the attack table, but I don't really know the details.

[Raguel]

So what's the purpose of being a tank if I can't tank? Sounds like I'm better off being a marauder or going dps on my shadow

[Nevermore]

Now you understand why PvP at level 50 is mostly Sentinels/Marauders and Vanguards/Powertechs (specced in the ridiculous Assault/Pyro trees).  Or at least it was when I was regularly PvPing over the summer.

[Fordel]

So what's the purpose of being a tank if I can't tank? Sounds like I'm better off being a marauder or going dps on my shadow

There isn't much currently. The main 'tanky' bit of pvp tanking is the taunt damage reduction, but you don't need to be an actual tank spec to do that.

There are still a few pseudo tank split specs, that end up wearing mostly DPS gear but keeping a few key tank spec talents and staying in their tank stance for guard, but those are drying up now too mostly I think.

[DraconianOne]

So what's the purpose of being a tank if I can't tank? Sounds like I'm better off being a marauder or going dps on my shadow

Didn't say there wasn't a purpose in being a tank, only that there might be not much benefit to stacking shield and defence for PvP because of the way mechanics work. A lot of tank spec talents and skills are to do with damage resistance and reduction (not avoidance and mitigation which is what shield is for) so your survivability goes up. I vaguely recall this is why Juggs/Guardians can be quite formidable in PvP - they do quite well with resistance talents.

As said, you can guard/shield another player (if no a healer then there better be a bloody good reason) - and that shield is a damage reduction/diversion mechanic (and isn't affected by the Shield stat) that also counts towards medals. Plus taunt is a damage debuff (but only damage against other players) - and all tanks get an area taunt at level 30.

I levelled my Vanguard a lot in WZs and my spec was 25/14/2 with most of the points in the tanking Shield tree and I was consistently closer to the top of the leaderboard than the bottom (although given most peoples impression of Republic PvPing, that's like saying my shit may have smelt better than everyone elses but it's still shit). It can be done. (Well, it could be - tbh I've neglected my tank and haven't kept an eye on how much the last few patches may have nerfed her).

Conversely, I hate hate hate PvPing with my Scoundrel. I absolutely don't get how I should be playing it. I see all these Imp Operatives jumping around doing stuns and backstabs and other such crap and I *know* I have the same skills available to me but I have absolutely no idea what they are or how to use them. 

[Raguel]

Well, I still have fun in pvp.  I just don't feel all that tankish when being attacked. Maybe my opinion would change if I was playing a sorc/sage.


What are medals for anyway? I noticed that I got a paladin medal for shielding someone, and I have like 6 MVP awards, for some reason lol.

What happens when I max out on comms?

[Sjofn]

If you max out on comms, you don't get any more. :P The medals are mostly to show "hey, you did shit" and you get bonus stuff (I don't remember what exactly, hovering over the medal count should tell you?) for the first 8 you have.

[Raguel]

I guess what I really should have asked is if there were other things to spend comms on besides armor; probably won't do much 50 pvp. I found the pvp vendor and bought 100 medpacks. I seem to survive much longer now. My last match was like 20 kills 0 deaths. (oh and I also use stealth, insta stealth and that speed buff more often now, so it looks like most of the problems I've been having were user errors  )

[DraconianOne]

If it was the PvP medpacks you bought, I would have suggested not trading comms for them as they're so easy to come by in the daily reward boxes. Then again, I don't use them as much as I should (and keep forgetting about them at the moment). But you already have and that's your perogative.  There are boxes you can buy which give adrenals and a piece of gear that you may or may not be able to sell on the GTN but other than that, gear. When you get to level 40, it's the only way you can get gear with Expertise on before level 50. Other than that, yeah - armour and weapons.

re: medals. The number of medals you got determined how many commendations and how much valor you got. Unfortunately this led to a scenario where, e.g. in Huttball, a team would quickly score 5 goals then not score the last one but farm the other team for medals. So they changed it in an early patch (pre 1.2 iirc) so that only the first 4 medals counted - plus bonus for each MVP you get. They also introduced medals for winning a game quickly and for defending nodes in warzones like Alderaan or Denova to encourage and reward strategic play.

[DraconianOne]

Actually, noob question of my own:

WTF is a good team strategy for the Ancient Hypergates warzone? I think I understand how the game works but I don't understand what the team tactics should be short of Gotta Kill 'Em All.  Is it better to get orbs back to the node or go for killcount?

[Sjofn]

I guess what I really should have asked is if there were other things to spend comms on besides armor; probably won't do much 50 pvp.

Look at the different level 20 and 40 armors and see if there are any you want your companions to dress up in. :P

[Ironwood]

Wife has nixed the idea of the slave girl outfit for Vette.

I is annoyed.

[Lantyssa]

That's like dressing your baby sister in slut clothes.  I agree with the wife.

[Ironwood]

Baby sister ?  Really ?

Hmmm.  My Vette doesn't act like that.  Possibly because my Sith Warrior is an utter psychopath.  I mean really.  He's nuts.  It's just not funny.

[SnakeCharmer]

Actually, noob question of my own:

WTF is a good team strategy for the Ancient Hypergates warzone? I think I understand how the game works but I don't understand what the team tactics should be short of Gotta Kill 'Em All.  Is it better to get orbs back to the node or go for killcount?

My premade team uses the following strategy:
1.  Two fast movers (Cons/Inqs) trade back and forth between running orbs and guarding the node.  When 1 reaches halfway, the other leaves the node and heads toward mid.  Call for help when needed.  Rinse repeat.
2.  One or two stealthers harass opposing teams node and try and get a cheap double cap or two.  Even one double cap is a huge boost in points.  If you get one double cap, keep one stealther on opposing team node to keep them honest and burn opposing players snare breakers.
3.  Balance of team occupies mid with AoE damage and and AoE healing with a smart healer Operative/Scoundrel bouncing around the door/LoSing doing spot heals and whatever splash damage they can do.  Put a tank (preferably Consular/Iinquisitor) in mid that is kept alive by your Op/Scoundrel.  Specify who does what debuff (accuracy, armor, healing, movement, etc) and keep those debuffs on CD.  Have your team lean how focus fire and always have the FF target marked with a symbol.   We use the reticule symbol with the Connie tank using autohotkey to mark his target.

[DraconianOne]

Excellent, cheers.

[Sjofn]

Wife has nixed the idea of the slave girl outfit for Vette.

I is annoyed.

Your wife is trying to save you from looking like a creeper that dresses up his real dolls when he's not playing SWTOR, that's all.

[Raguel]

If it was the PvP medpacks you bought, I would have suggested not trading comms for them as they're so easy to come by in the daily reward boxes. Then again, I don't use them as much as I should (and keep forgetting about them at the moment). But you already have and that's your perogative.  There are boxes you can buy which give adrenals and a piece of gear that you may or may not be able to sell on the GTN but other than that, gear. When you get to level 40, it's the only way you can get gear with Expertise on before level 50. Other than that, yeah - armour and weapons.

Actually my first thought was to buy expertise gear but I didn't see any below level 50, so I figure medpacks was the next best thing. Is it on the class pvp vendor or the other one? I already sold enough stabilizers + crafted items to buy expertise gems so I'm pretty g2g unless there's a way to get a hand-eye coordination transplant. 

[Ironwood]

Wife has nixed the idea of the slave girl outfit for Vette.

I is annoyed.

Your wife is trying to save you from looking like a creeper that dresses up his real dolls when he's not playing SWTOR, that's all.

Whoa, that slope sure is slippery....

 

[DraconianOne]

Actually my first thought was to buy expertise gear but I didn't see any below level 50, so I figure medpacks was the next best thing. Is it on the class pvp vendor or the other one? I already sold enough stabilizers + crafted items to buy expertise gems so I'm pretty g2g unless there's a way to get a hand-eye coordination transplant. 

Expertise is only on the PvP weapons which, for Republic, are sold by Captain Tracer who stands to the right of the PvP quest terminal. First weapon with +expertise is avaialable at level 34 I think and then every 3 or 4 levels after that.  It's only a small amount (the lvl 47 pistol I bought last night had +25 expertise on it) but something is better than nothing. Also, the stats are quite good even for levelling.

Speaking of which, the blue (orange?) PvP level 40 armour is also quite good for levelling - it doesn't have any expertise but it's a good use of comms. (Again, I think you can start buying the gear before you get to 40 but I did that when the comm cap was 1000, not 2750 so it may not be relevant). It should see you most - if not all - the way to 50.

[Ironwood]

I'm finding levelling fuckalicious easy and fun.  Only 35, but there hasn't really been a grind as yet and I was able to 'just' do class quests on Alderaan to skip it almost entirely.

[Lantyssa]

Whoa, that slope sure is slippery....

 

It's the Creeper Cliff.  One foot over and you're into real weird shit.

[Ironwood]

Not entirely sure you'll ever find a chap with more respect for women than me, but sometimes, just sometimes, you have to dress one up in a gold bikini.

 

[Fordel]

The metal bikini's come in all kinds of colors now!

[Raguel]

I started the week being annoyed by fellow gamers who seemed to think everyone should know how to pvp or the rules of the map to being annoyed by the n00bs who don't know how to pvp or the rules of the map. 

I can definitely feel the difference when it comes to playing against other pugs and pre-mades.

Are operatives able to stunlock others or was it just me? I pretty much have no hope of beating one unless they are horrible.

Does this game have a decent chat log? The only thing I can get it to do is show me how I killed or was killed, but not blow by blow. The main reason I want it was that my shadow lost to an assassin pretty badly. he had about 50 70% health left and I popped all my defense stuff + wz stuff on the fight. I don't know if there were LOS issues (he was moving around a lot during the beginning of the fight) or what.

[koro]

The game's combat log is horrendous. It's essentially unreadable from the straight .txt file:

[20:08:31.402] [@Volgen] [Trandoshan Stealthkiller {2856780317065216}:7850000117602] [Force Scream {998270658674688}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (831 kinetic {836045448940873}) <1663>

So how do you read this shit? You use a combat log parser like Ask Mr. Robot or TORParse, which still isn't perfect since I don't think either site has a blow-by-blow combat timeline.

Edit: TORParse has an option to convert the log file's second-by-second format into something human-readable, so you can kinda sorta do a blow-by-blow like that, but it's a pain.

[Raguel]

lol why make it so difficult? I can't think of a single mmo I played where this was a big deal.

Well I guess it's not worth the effort  to someone like myself. Against other n00bs I win more than not. Against pre-mades I get facerolled so the only good that will come of reading the logs is making the pre-mades break a sweat once in awhile.

[Zetor]

There was a lot of brouhaha about the combat log near launch (and a lot of people loved not having one, because death to dps meters!!!! or something), it took a while until we got this thing.

Yep, the premade situation is particularly terrible in swtor (in fact, after having played a bit this december, pvp in general is... not in a good place) due to a premade basically providing 50% of a team, and no cross-server queues meaning you WILL run into that premade with your pug again... again... and again. I have beaten premades with pugs in swtor, but it's VERY rare and requires them to be really really bad - both individually and as a team. This is all at 50, btw; sub-50 pvp doesn't have premades often (except for a handful of high-40s twinks who quit near the end of games to avoid getting xp).

Anyway, for CC / stunlocking, the sticky thread in the official pvp forum explains the resolve system - including when is the best time to use your CC breaker - pretty well. On my (heal-spec) operative I could do an ok job mez-locking people, but most of the time I used flash grenade and debilitate as "get off me" buttons.

[Raguel]

Well I can understand the dps meters thing. I get annoyed when people start lecturing me on my gear (doesn't happen that often now that I have a ton of good crafters) I certainly don't want people telling me I can only use 3 buttons and what order to use them in. I just want it for the basics so I can get a little better.

Yeah it's rare that I run into (what I assumed to be) pre-mades, but when I do it's insane. I swear they have 10 healers and 10 dps, all stealthers lol. Of course it doesn't help when I'm the only one attacking a healer.

Speaking of which how should one pvp as a tank? Normally, as a shadow, I'm capturing/defending something solo or duo, but there are some occasions where I have an opportunity to put guard on a healer. Should I stay in range for guard to work, taunt and cc attackers or go after healers? I'm sort of stuck because usually I'm the only one harassing the enemy's healer(s) but I'm not sure my dps is good enough to make a difference.