Noob questions

[Ingmar]

I arena'd my way to CHALLENGER in 2s with a sub-par class combo with Fordel in WoW that way. 

I don't think I'd try it with SWTOR buttons though.

[Nevermore]

One detail worth considering is that SWTOR has way more ability bloat than WoW. Switching to a different AC means learning 3-4x more abilities than switching talent specs in WoW.

Bollocks. 

TOR has ability bloat but not nearly to the extent that you seem to think and certainly not 3 to 4 times more than WoW.  To continue with my earlier example, the amount of abilities a Sage has is very comparable to a Resto Druid.  A Shadow might have somewhat more abilities than a Bear or a Cat individually but much less than a Feral Druid overall, which is an entirely reasonable comparison since the context of the discussion is about AC swapping.  A Sage switching to a Shadow spec would have less abilities to swap out than a Resto switching to Feral (my experience with Feral being WotLK/Cataclysm, not that MoP abomination).

[Fordel]

Speaking of ability bloat: I'm thinking about getting a gaming mouse for the first time ever. Anyone pvp w/o one? (Cuz that's the only reason I'm considering one; right now I use keyboard + left-clicking to get to my abilities but I'm assuming in pvp only n00bs use the mouse that way. )

I just run 1-6, shift 1-6 then F G C V and shift  F G C V. If I need more then that, it's probably a spec I don't want to play anymore anyways.

[Rokal]

TOR has ability bloat but not nearly to the extent that you seem to think and certainly not 3 to 4 times more than WoW.  To continue with my earlier example, the amount of abilities a Sage has is very comparable to a Resto Druid.  A Shadow might have somewhat more abilities than a Bear or a Cat individually but much less than a Feral Druid overall, which is an entirely reasonable comparison since the context of the discussion is about AC swapping.  A Sage switching to a Shadow spec would have less abilities to swap out than a Resto switching to Feral (my experience with Feral being WotLK/Cataclysm, not that MoP abomination).

You already know that they removed a lot of the multi-spec abilities from specs that didn't need them in MoP. Regardless, none of the WoW classes have ever had the ability bloat on the scale something like the JK Sentinel. Cata/Wrath-era Resto druids had ~12 feral abilities to consider, but only ~4-5 of these were actually useful. In my experience almost all of the abilities in SWTOR seem useful for any given AC which makes separating which abilities you should/shouldn't use, if you happened to switch to to that AC at 50, much harder.

[Ingmar]

I just don't think "well, some people might be too dumb to figure this out" is a good enough reason to disallow it. The upside is not enormous, so I don't reallly think it needs to be a high priority, but a paid AC change would not break the game in any kind of important way.

[Nevermore]

TOR has ability bloat but not nearly to the extent that you seem to think and certainly not 3 to 4 times more than WoW.  To continue with my earlier example, the amount of abilities a Sage has is very comparable to a Resto Druid.  A Shadow might have somewhat more abilities than a Bear or a Cat individually but much less than a Feral Druid overall, which is an entirely reasonable comparison since the context of the discussion is about AC swapping.  A Sage switching to a Shadow spec would have less abilities to swap out than a Resto switching to Feral (my experience with Feral being WotLK/Cataclysm, not that MoP abomination).

You already know that they removed a lot of the multi-spec abilities from specs that didn't need them in MoP. Regardless, none of the WoW classes have ever had the ability bloat on the scale something like the JK Sentinel. Cata/Wrath-era Resto druids had ~12 feral abilities to consider, but only ~4-5 of these were actually useful. In my experience almost all of the abilities in SWTOR seem useful for any given AC which makes separating which abilities you should/shouldn't use, if you happened to switch to to that AC at 50, much harder.

It's irrelevant how many abilities they may or may not have removed for MoP in the context of this discussion because people weren't too confused to respec Druids into different roles in WotLK/Cata regardless.  And if you cut out the non-useful abilities of the Sage from being considered, they have probably less useful abilities than a Resto or Balance Druid.  Seriously, I have all kinds of empty quickbar slots on my Sage, unlike most of my other TOR or WoW characters.

As for Sentinels, I would agree that they are the most egregious example of ability bloat but they also share many of those abilities with Guardians.  That would make respeccing between Sentinel and Guardian rather simple, due to all the abilities they have in common.

[Sjofn]

I definitely agree with Nevermore, especially on the JK front. There is ability bloat for sentinels for sure, but a LOT of their buttons overlap with the guardian. I have a very easy time jumping between my two sith warriors from that standpoint. But my sage also has a lot of spare space on her quickbars, because she simply does not need that many buttons (especially since she's heal-specced).

It is no different from switching your druid from feral to resto, or your paladin from holy to protection.


And yeah, all you need are some credits and you can have character slots for daaaaays, at least for now! I bought two for 230k a pop and I think it's dropped pretty far since then. :P

[Zetor]

Speaking of ability bloat: I'm thinking about getting a gaming mouse for the first time ever. Anyone pvp w/o one? (Cuz that's the only reason I'm considering one; right now I use keyboard + left-clicking to get to my abilities but I'm assuming in pvp only n00bs use the mouse that way. )

Well, for one, pvp in swtor and wow sucks, so don't worry about it.   A lot of diku pvp is the gear game, and some classes are more resilient to keyboard turning or clicking than others. In swtor you can secure wins easily most of the time simply by playing in a 4-man premade (unless the premade is REALLY REALLY bad, which can happen, but isn't common)

Anyway, depends on what you mean by gaming mouse. I use a deathadder (or whatever it's called) with just two side buttons, and it's been enough for pvp in general - even when I was playing button-heavy classes like WOW resto shaman. You do need to keybind almost everything though - 1-6, shift/ctrl/alt 1-5, qezxrfv, shift/alt/ctrl modifiers of qezxrfv (not all modifiers on each key - depending on convenience), f1-f4, and 3 mouse buttons (center, side1, side2) have been enough for me. Clicking is bad not just because it's slower (though it IS; if you're a super gosu SC2 player it may be even, idk), but because you can't click an ability and mouselook at the same time, and in pvp if you're not able to swing both your character and the camera around as needed you'll get stuff like people jousting you and not being able to fight back. Another artifact is that if you're not turning with your mouse, you need to rely on strafe/backpedal to move around / get away, and backpedalling (walking backwards) is noticably slower than normal walking. I remember dueling a keyboard turner warrior back in WOW vanilla with my much less geared warrior, and was able to defeat him without taking much damage at all simply by exploiting his slow turning radius and the delay between his attacks.

[eldaec]

On AC switching, seems like a lot of the people arguing against are worrying about problems that would primarily emerge from on the fly spec switching, whereas those in favour are talking about permanent respec.

On ability bloat, I take your point wrt warriors/knights, but on the others, seriously, other MMOGs carry way more genuine abilities. Your regular use stuff that needs a key bind is maybe half a dozen per class. Everything else easily fits on a handful of hot bars.

There are plenty of buttons you can hide altogether because they won't be relevant to your spec or are PvP only or whatever.

[DraconianOne]

And yeah, all you need are some credits and you can have character slots for daaaaays, at least for now! I bought two for 230k a pop and I think it's dropped pretty far since then. :P

What is this about character slots and credits? I feel I should know.

[Sjofn]

They started selling MOAR character slots on the cartel market, but it's an item you can put up on the GTN, so some people have been. So if you want more slots, but don't want to pay real money for it, there's that option instead.

[eldaec]

Is there any upper limit to how many you can buy?

230k is 2 hours at level 50 at most.

[Ironwood]

Actually, I'm fairly pleased with the whole 'fantasy money for cartel stuff.'

I've convinced the wife to have a play about with it and while she's enjoying it, she's horrified at the idea of only 2 quickbars.  I put up some auctions and bang, new quickbar for her.

The idea that, sure, you're a freebie, but that the only barrier to entry is to get in game cash and 'upgrade your account' works for me.  Further, the idea that you get preferred from a single purchase is also rather a spiffy thing that really draws the customer in.

[Lantyssa]

If the argument against AC switching is ability bloat, something which needs to be reigned in anyways, I'd say... reign in the number of abilities.  Two problems solved!

[Fordel]

Is there any upper limit to how many you can buy?

230k is 2 hours at level 50 at most.

There is some theoretical limit to the number of slots you can have on a server, but its like 30+ or something apparently.

Only Sjofn need apply basically 

[Raguel]

Is there any upper limit to how many you can buy?

230k is 2 hours at level 50 at most.

LOL I was feeling good about myself getting 100k in that time period. What's the secret?

[DraconianOne]

They started selling MOAR character slots on the cartel market, but it's an item you can put up on the GTN, so some people have been. So if you want more slots, but don't want to pay real money for it, there's that option instead.

I spent a happy half hour on the GTN last night looking at the prices of various Cartel items but didn't realise that it extended to character slots too. Awesome.  Are there any other unlocks that can be bought for credits too?

[DraconianOne]

Actually, I'm fairly pleased with the whole 'fantasy money for cartel stuff.'

I've convinced the wife to have a play about with it and while she's enjoying it, she's horrified at the idea of only 2 quickbars.  I put up some auctions and bang, new quickbar for her.

The idea that, sure, you're a freebie, but that the only barrier to entry is to get in game cash and 'upgrade your account' works for me.  Further, the idea that you get preferred from a single purchase is also rather a spiffy thing that really draws the customer in.

Are you on a Euro or US server?

[koro]

They started selling MOAR character slots on the cartel market, but it's an item you can put up on the GTN, so some people have been. So if you want more slots, but don't want to pay real money for it, there's that option instead.

I spent a happy half hour on the GTN last night looking at the prices of various Cartel items but didn't realise that it extended to character slots too. Awesome.  Are there any other unlocks that can be bought for credits too?

To the best of my knowledge, nearly everything can be put on the AH. If you look through the actual Cartel Market itself, any Unlock that appears as an item in the Item Preview window can be sold. This goes for Section X authorization, color unify, bank tabs (you can save literally millions of credits by buying an account-wide bank tab from the AH), and more or less everything but weekly ops/warzone/flashpoint passes.

[Ironwood]

Actually, I'm fairly pleased with the whole 'fantasy money for cartel stuff.'

I've convinced the wife to have a play about with it and while she's enjoying it, she's horrified at the idea of only 2 quickbars.  I put up some auctions and bang, new quickbar for her.

The idea that, sure, you're a freebie, but that the only barrier to entry is to get in game cash and 'upgrade your account' works for me.  Further, the idea that you get preferred from a single purchase is also rather a spiffy thing that really draws the customer in.

Are you on a Euro or US server?

Euro.  Because anything else would be daft.

[DraconianOne]

I agree. Many wouldn't. If you're on Progenitor, give us a shout. If not, you can go about your business. Move along.

[Ingmar]

Is there any upper limit to how many you can buy?

230k is 2 hours at level 50 at most.

LOL I was feeling good about myself getting 100k in that time period. What's the secret?

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=22154.0

 

I should redo it to cover the new dailies and such.

[Fordel]

Can you solo the Ilum H2 yet? 

[Ingmar]

Probably, I haven't tried in ages.

[Raguel]

Is there any upper limit to how many you can buy?

230k is 2 hours at level 50 at most.

LOL I was feeling good about myself getting 100k in that time period. What's the secret?

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=22154.0

 

I should redo it to cover the new dailies and such.

I don't remember any non heroic dailies on those planets but I'll look into them. I did the dailies on Section X but I don't think they gave out that level of coin. I didn't keep a detailed record tho

[Ingmar]

The whole process would go much faster now too, as the shuttles will port you directly around to the daily areas, when I did that test I still had to run back and forth through stations and stuff to get anywhere.

[Ironwood]

I agree. Many wouldn't. If you're on Progenitor, give us a shout. If not, you can go about your business. Move along.

I am.  How does one go about shouting ?

[Raguel]

Btw, thanks for the responses re: gaming mouse, but anything that requires 2 buttons for one ability in pvp sounds to me like a non starter. I had to change companion attack to 'V'.   I think I'll rearrange my keys though so my important stuff is 1 6 and on Q,E,C,V, get an inexpensive mouse and roll with that.


eta: drats. That king's crusade armor I mentioned? It only looks that way on my inquisitor. Itlooks like just another jedi robe on my guardian. LOL I guess the art doesn't go with the armor but with the level, armor type, and side.

[Lantyssa]

Side is what determines the look.  There are a ton of things that looked awesome on my Sith that looked terrible on my Jedi.  Maybe a few in the reverse direction, but Sith clothes have so much more character and variety.

[Ironwood]

That new Jedi outfit (you know the one that's on every cover and screenshot and is now available to buy) is just awesome.

I would put it on all my chars.

[eldaec]

Btw, thanks for the responses re: gaming mouse, but anything that requires 2 buttons for one ability in pvp sounds to me like a non starter. I had to change companion attack to 'V'.   I think I'll rearrange my keys though so my important stuff is 1 6 and on Q,E,C,V, get an inexpensive mouse and roll with that.

First thing you need to do is shift your move keys across to ESDF. Opens up QAZ for abilities and tab is still in range of your little finger.

Death to all WASDs.

[Ironwood]

That's an interesting idea actually.

Hmmm.

[DraconianOne]

Btw, thanks for the responses re: gaming mouse, but anything that requires 2 buttons for one ability in pvp sounds to me like a non starter. I had to change companion attack to 'V'.   I think I'll rearrange my keys though so my important stuff is 1 6 and on Q,E,C,V, get an inexpensive mouse and roll with that.

First thing you need to do is shift your move keys across to ESDF. Opens up QAZ for abilities and tab is still in range of your little finger.

Death to all WASDs.

I don't use more than S and F for movement (strafing) and that frees up E and D for abilities too.  Double mouse button for forward movement and no backpedal.  Primary fire on E so it's always accessible.

[Raguel]

So I played a ton of pvp today on my 28 29 shadow (leveled through pvp). Well I guess I was worried about nothing in a way. I still haven't bought a new mouse but I did ok. My main problems can't be solved with a mouse: other players just moved too fast for me to keep up and I had no idea what I was doing. I just followed the zerg around and hoped for the best lol.

Here's something I didn't expect. I thought pvp would be like DAoC's battlegrounds but all levels were kind of thrown in. There was a buff to make us all 49 from what I was told. Does anyone know what that covers? For example I figure it covers obvious things like armor, endurance,  and primary dmg stat, but what about absorption, power, crit, and surge?

[Ingmar]

So I played a ton of pvp today on my 28 29 shadow (leveled through pvp). Well I guess I was worried about nothing in a way. I still haven't bought a new mouse but I did ok. My main problems can't be solved with a mouse: other players just moved too fast for me to keep up and I had no idea what I was doing. I just followed the zerg around and hoped for the best lol.

Here's something I didn't expect. I thought pvp would be like DAoC's battlegrounds but all levels were kind of thrown in. There was a buff to make us all 49 from what I was told. Does anyone know what that covers? For example I figure it covers obvious things like armor, endurance,  and primary dmg stat, but what about absorption, power, crit, and surge?

I think it scales everything up, yes. So if you have one piece of gear with absorb on it, you'd have one level 49 piece of gear with absorb, etc. It doesn't scale you up for ability access so higher level people will have more buttons, which can give them quite an edge depending on things, but it is generally pretty even and pretty fun in the 1-49 warzones. I've never done a level 50 one.