Song of Ice and Fire Book Thread (SPOILERS)

[Riggswolfe]

I read the second book, with nary a mention of the Whitewalkers and said, 'this fucker is trying to Jordan me", and didn't go a book further.

As far as I'm concerned it's not hyperbole in the least, it's spot-on.

If he sticks to finishing it in two books* I'll disagree. If a decade from now he's working on book 10 then I'll not only be done with this shit but I'll be in total agreement with you.

*Finishing it in two books does not mean splitting each of them into two long ass books that are "all the same book".

[Samwise]

What happened to that Ice and Fire book thread?

All right, all right.  Gimme a sec to scrub up.

[Samwise]

Operation successful.  Some loss of sensation in the extremities is to be expected.

[Phildo]

But I don't want to post in this thread, damn you!

[eldaec]

I don't give a rat's ass how many books he writes so long as I enjoy reading them.

And fuck all you haters, I enjoyed Feast.

[Paelos]

Why?

[tazelbain]

It's all just maneuvering so Podrick can take the Iron Throne.

[eldaec]

Why?

Because there was enough character stuff to keep me interested. I liked Sam's journey, I liked watching KL fall apart, I liked the emergence of the sparrows, I liked the psycho Stark chapters, I liked that it starred to fill out the world beyond that directly affecting the 3 Targaryean Sues, I liked the Kingsmoot, I even started to like Brienne. It wasn't as good as Storm, sure, but I enjoyed it.

And on a forum where people unironically post in defence of Pacific Rim, KotOR2, First Contact, the Courtship of Princess Leia, World of Warcraft, Iron Man 3, and Hearthstone, I think Feast gets way more shit than it is owed.

[Paelos]

Cersei's stuff in King's Landing was the highlight of the book for me, mostly because I got to see a character I hated go to pieces.

My problem with it is that it's 1100 pages. There's constant overuse of internal conflict in this book. I don't mind character development, but it's handled poorly and repetitively in my mind here. We get it, the characters are torn between love/duty/trust/role. Okay FFS, move on to some actual plot flow.

The issue is that Dance and Feast should have been one book, with about 1,000 pages cut.

[WayAbvPar]

Why?

Because there was enough character stuff to keep me interested. I liked Sam's journey, I liked watching KL fall apart, I liked the emergence of the sparrows, I liked the psycho Stark chapters, I liked that it starred to fill out the world beyond that directly affecting the 3 Targaryean Sues, I liked the Kingsmoot, I even started to like Brienne. It wasn't as good as Storm, sure, but I enjoyed it.

And on a forum where people unironically post in defence of Pacific Rim, KotOR2, First Contact, the Courtship of Princess Leia, World of Warcraft, Iron Man 3, and Hearthstone, I think Feast gets way more shit than it is owed.

This. Weakest of the series, but still better than SO MUCH other stuff, especially in the genre.

[Chimpy]

The problem I have with the books is that, outside of the first one, I just can't re-read them. They were good the first time but unlike most other authors/series in the genre which I can reread multiple times (even Jordan in his amish bondage fantasy worst) I just can't re-read them.

[Rasix]

I think I've read the first 3 about 4 times now.    Even read 4 twice.

I would start another re-read in prep for 6, but I just don't have the free time anymore. 

[Threash]

You have several years to finish :P Also, this is one of the more rereadable series ever.  Some stuff completely changes meaning knowing what comes next, there is so much foreshadowing and hints of what's to come that only jump out at you on subsequent readings.

[WayAbvPar]

Re-reading them is actually very interesting. There are TONS of hints about future events woven into dreams and prophecies and shit. Actually kinda cool how much you can see forshadowed.

e- Threash said pretty much the same thing 

[Rendakor]

You have several years to finish :P Also, this is one of the more rereadable series ever.  Some stuff completely changes meaning knowing what comes next, there is so much foreshadowing and hints of what's to come that only jump out at you on subsequent readings.

This. I'll probably do rereads for 6 and 7 (and Sanderson's inevitable 8, 9 and 10) once they have firm dates.

[murdoc]

You have several years to finish :P Also, this is one of the more rereadable series ever.  Some stuff completely changes meaning knowing what comes next, there is so much foreshadowing and hints of what's to come that only jump out at you on subsequent readings.

I have read the first 3 books 5-6 times each and the last two a couple of times. I think it's extremely rereadable.

[Venkman]

I have read through entire series of far worse storytellling just because the world was interesting enough to keep going.

I think some of the hate here and in most places around here (and shit, the whole internet) is because of the tendency of western culture forum posters to try and find new ways to raise the bar on hyperbole. or, all of this:

And on a forum where people unironically post in defence of Pacific Rim, KotOR2, First Contact, the Courtship of Princess Leia, World of Warcraft, Iron Man 3, and Hearthstone, I think Feast gets way more shit than it is owed.

[Chimpy]

My inability to reread the books multiple times is more about the fact that I, personally, just don't feel re-"hooked" on them like I did the first read. I even liked some of the bits in Feast and actuallly think Dragons was worse overall even with the "better" character arcs.

I read through the whole series through Feast twice, but when I tried to re-read them since then I have stalled out no later than about 3/4 through the second book.

[Speedy Cerviche]

I wonder if Book 6's release will be tied to the start of Season 5 and/or we might see some fairly large divergence from the plot of the books in the TV series.

Frankly I find the whole process kind of fascinating, a book series being written at the same time as TV series of the book is being made...with the TV series popularity does the tail begin to wag the dog? Has it affected GRRM's writing?

Fine with me. The HBO people are doing a great job editing GRRM's story which at points get quite turgid. GRRM put together a fantastic fantasy world, but isn't exactly the greatest writer, and he doesn't seem to enjoy writing all that much either given the pace at which he does it, and how he himself has described it as basically forcing himself to do it. I mean what would you rather be doing in that situation? Sitting alone in your office all day labouring over wordy paragraphs you don't particularly enjoy writing, or hanging around on the game of thrones set with all the cool actors and staff, or at HBO headquarters? Probably at this point GRRM is open to working with them on wrapping it all up in a way that's more coordinated with the TV show, probably including getting help on the writing.

[Tannhauser]

I don't know, I know plenty of people who quit before A Dance with Dragons because 50 good pages doesn't make 1054 shitty pages worth reading. Which is basically exactly what you just described.

I quit after the first two books.  They were well written and I enjoyed them, but after the Red Wedding I knew there was no future for me with the books.  Well that and everyone says that the last two books go off in the weeds.

[Threash]

Red wedding was on the third book.

[Tannhauser]

First off, I wandered into the wrong thread!  Second, I knew someone was going to be confused about my Red Wedding statement.  I read the first two books then watched the Red Wedding episode then quit buying the books right there and then. 

I do admit he built an amazing fantasy world, but he's pretty rough on it's inhabitants.  Plus, I don't think he finishes it in book form.

[jgsugden]

I'm betting that sometime in 2015 we'll get an announcement that the TV show will end their story differently than the books. 

I can't imagine that GRRM wants the show to 'spoil' his books, and they keep dropping elements from the show that seem like they're key based upon what we've seen in the books.  I think we'll see book 6 released before season 6 starts on TV (that gives him 2 years), and that book 6 will still heavily inform seasons 5 through 7 - but I think book 7 and season 7 end up being dramatically different - as in different people survive and perhaps a different person ends up on the Iron Throne.

[kaid]

I'm betting that sometime in 2015 we'll get an announcement that the TV show will end their story differently than the books. 

I can't imagine that GRRM wants the show to 'spoil' his books, and they keep dropping elements from the show that seem like they're key based upon what we've seen in the books.  I think we'll see book 6 released before season 6 starts on TV (that gives him 2 years), and that book 6 will still heavily inform seasons 5 through 7 - but I think book 7 and season 7 end up being dramatically different - as in different people survive and perhaps a different person ends up on the Iron Throne.

I think they will come to largely similar endings but may get there differently. Frankly at the glacial pace the author writes at and the fact he seems to be having more fun just flitting around the globe than actually finishing the series I think HBO is our best chance at some closure to this story.

[Venkman]

That.

You can split the details, but the endings really gotta match otherwise what's the point? Just spin off a separate TV show like "Game of Thrones: North of the Wall" or something if you want to have creative freedom or need to adhere to artist contracts or whatever.

Otherwise, imagine Harry Potter having endings that differed between the book and the movie. That just wouldn't fly at all (though I guess book 7 came out even before they needed a script for movie 7?).

[Rendakor]

I think they will come to largely similar endings but may get there differently. Frankly at the glacial pace the author writes at and the fact he seems to be having more fun just flitting around the globe than actually finishing the series I think HBO is our best chance at some closure to this story.

If not HBO, than Brandon Sanderson.

[jgsugden]

Lots of adaptions end differently than the books.  Quite frankly, if it wasn't written by a US author, the US screen adaption USUALLY changes the ending.  GRRM is mostly US, but his writing is not restricted to the US tropes.

[eldaec]

It kind of is, he's just better than most at making you overlook the trope until it hits.

[Tale]

Quite frankly, if it wasn't written by a US author, the US screen adaption USUALLY changes the ending.  GRRM is mostly US, but his writing is not restricted to the US tropes.

Speaking of GRRM being a US writer, his style inconsistencies often bother me. One moment he's adapting Olde English rules for how people speak in Westeros. The next, he entirely drops it and a character says "I'll write you", an invention of American English. Outside the US, it's "I'll write to you".

He's entitled to make up the rules of his creation, but the mish-mash of US and original English gets a bit bizarre. It's probably just that I use British and Australian English for a living.

[K9]

Well this doesn't bode well...

One of the first comments:

Have you ever lost any chapter from Winds? Screen it lol

Response

Never. And you know why? Because I write my fiction with WordStar 4.0 on a DOS machine. Stable as a rock, with none of the glitches of Windows-based systems.

Which doesn't fill me with confidence. It wouldn't amaze me if there is only a single copy of his TWOW draft stored on a single 17 year old computer.

Also, the dude needs to stop blogging about the Hugo awards and finish his damn story.

[Merusk]

Guys a dick and will not finish for one reason.  The story will be finished by HBO in 2 years and he'll say some bullshit about there being no point and there's other stories to tell.

He was bored three books in. If it hadn't taken off the way it did we wouldn't even be this far.

[Chimpy]

There is nothing new about him using his ancient machine to write this stuff. He has talked about it all the time.

I noticed that he wrote a Prequel book when I was at the Library a couple weeks ago: "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms".

I think we are definitely looking at a Robert Jordan scenario where he kicks the bucket with several books left.

Plus, what Merusk beat me to. The dude doesn't care about anything but the money it makes him and he is probably making several times what the book sales would get him from HBO for the series.

And frankly, the books have been mostly shit since at best the third book.

[Threash]

It's not a prequel book, it's a collection of the three short stories he has already written.

[Sky]

I don't get why everyone wants him to finish, since as mentioned, it was a good open-ended trilogy.

So I don't hate on G man, in fact I adore the guy because he's a huge mini collector and patronizes a bunch of great painters for his collection. He's a holy grail patron, and there are only a handful of them in the world!

[HaemishM]

The dude doesn't care about anything but the money it makes him and he is probably making several times what the book sales would get him from HBO for the series.

Even "NEW YORK TIMES BESTSELLER" books make shit compared to the kind of money you can get selling screenplays or film rights for movies or TV. I was fucking flabbergasted when I saw the actual numbers. Minimum according to Screenwriters Guild for just selling the rights to someone who actually writes the screenplay is $30k with about $3-$6k up front even if the goddamn screenplay never gets sold. Put that number up against something like Stephanie Meyer's advance on one of the later Twilight books (which has sold a bazillion fucking copies) was about $45k which has to be made up by sales before she gets another goddamn dime. If you actually sell the screenplay for a movie, minimum is $300k. The disparity in dollars between book sales and movies is just goddamn sick.

Hence the reason I'm adapting my first novel into a screenplay and shopping it. Because fuck...