Another One Bites the Dust: SWG Edition!

[Dark_MadMax]

After playing SWTOR and looking at SWG ending vids it makes me sad. So much great technology went to waste. SWG could been a great sandbox. SWTOR will be a nice game everyone plays trough and realizes it has nothing behind it but voiceovers and decent script.

[Tannhauser]

Yah, and much, much greater success than SWG.

[Dark_MadMax]

Yah, and much, much greater success than SWG.

That is because its a better game. SWG is(was) a better platform albeit quite unmature at release. Problem is it never had good gameplay  .Combat was junk, gameplay flow was junk. Raph Koster built a great platform for sandbox, but he doesnt understand what fun gameplay is. I mean look at UO - this game too had pretty junk core gameplay and great sandbox features.

[Tannhauser]

I'm not going to get into another UO postmortem, lord knows we've had way too many of them.  But I'll say that UO was a fun game.  Also, the core gameplay was good to me.  Go be a 5x GM, choose which skills you want.  Where's the modern MMO that lets you
1.  Place a house in the world, not in a dead locked off zone?
2.  Have a boat with more storage and free roaming travel?
3.  Lets you trap a giant in your home that you use for weapon practice? 
And so on.

SWG was premature and...anyway not all Raph's fault from my understanding. 

[Dark_MadMax]

I'm not going to get into another UO postmortem, lord knows we've had way too many of them.  But I'll say that UO was a fun game.  Also, the core gameplay was good to me.  Go be a 5x GM, choose which skills you want.  Where's the modern MMO that lets you

Lets make it clear here  "core gameplay"= combat. Mr Koster does not understand this. But its a fact. It was crap in UO, it was crap in SWG.  For most people majority of their interaction with the world is trough combat first and foremost. If you do not get this part right game will be only attractive to diehards interested in the other features. You will not retain most other population if this part is crap.  You can have successfull game without all other die hard sandboxy  parts   if you get the core right. WoW did it with superbly polished core. SWTOR explored the story angle (success for now)

You can have a game which is nothing but combat (LoL for example) and be success. Though One can argue that a game which is nothing but sandbox (e.g. minecraft) can be success too.

1.  Place a house in the world, not in a dead locked off zone?
2.  Have a boat with more storage and free roaming travel?
3.  Lets you trap a giant in your home that you use for weapon practice? 
nd so on.

This is all sandbox features.  I really really would love to see them in a good GAME . 

[Tannhauser]

I disagree that core gameplay has to equal combat in a MMO sandbox. 

[Mrbloodworth]

As I play SWTOR, I do find myself wishing fro more of the SWG sandbox features to be present.

[HaemishM]

I disagree that core gameplay has to equal combat in a MMO sandbox. 

It does in a game with the name STAR WARS on it. 

[Azazel]

Wars have nothing to do with combat and everything to do with being a hairdresser specialising in braiding wookie hair. 

Apparently.

Fuck SWG.

[Stabs]

As I play SWTOR, I do find myself wishing fro more of the SWG sandbox features to be present.

This.

While I appreciate they are different games they look feel and sound so alike that it's quite jarring to run up a mountain, try to explore the other side and hit an invisible wall. Or to see someone who looks interesting in town try to talk to them and bounce off because they're not part of your story.

I would also like to fill my spaceship with clutter, souvenirs and trophies and invite people round. (Which they may implement).

I do miss Galaxies, I hope that some of the best elements of it get resurrected successfully elsewhere.

[El Gallo]

I would just love it if someone made an updated UO, with a real UI, modern-ish graphics, and a bigger world.  I even dig the diablo-style loot drops UO has now.

[Numtini]

I would just love it if someone made an updated UO, with a real UI, modern-ish graphics, and a bigger world.  I even dig the diablo-style loot drops UO has now.

I've always thought that if "UO2 in Space" was just "UO2" it would have been a great hit and considered a fantastic game. Probably not WoW numbers, but ice steady long term income and probably also a lot of positive publicity.

[Malakili]

I would just love it if someone made an updated UO, with a real UI, modern-ish graphics, and a bigger world.  I even dig the diablo-style loot drops UO has now.

Darkfall came as close as anything is going to, and its never been anything more than an extreme niche game.  Yes, someone could come closer I guess, but I doubt anyone is going to try.

[Teleku]

The only way a top quality Sandbox is going to be made is if an established major game developer (like Blizzard, or Bioware  ) makes it.  I don't trust start up devs to make MMO's anymore.  They have all sucked since the early days.  Eve is the only one that's managed it, but it took them years of work after they released the game to get it to a playable point.  But of course, what they've been doing with it over the last year or two doesn't help their cause.

Darkfall looked nice on paper, but of course was a train wreck as a piece of software.  Give somebody who has the resources of one of the big guys a shot at a Sandbox, and it might work.

[Soln]

As I play SWTOR, I do find myself wishing fro more of the SWG sandbox features to be present.

This.

While I appreciate they are different games they look feel and sound so alike that it's quite jarring to run up a mountain, try to explore the other side and hit an invisible wall. Or to see someone who looks interesting in town try to talk to them and bounce off because they're not part of your story.

I would also like to fill my spaceship with clutter, souvenirs and trophies and invite people round. (Which they may implement).

I do miss Galaxies, I hope that some of the best elements of it get resurrected successfully elsewhere.

agreed.  I'd pay for that.  I paid for SWG for nearly 3 years and all expansions.  Not sure I'll get past my one game time card with SWTOR.

[Merusk]

Different game for different players.  I struggled to find SWG enjoyable and didn't last more than 6 months - and only that long because there was nothing but EQ or FFXI to turn to.

TOR on the other hand I'm enjoying the hell out of when I can play it.

[Malakili]

Different game for different players.  I struggled to find SWG enjoyable and didn't last more than 6 months - and only that long because there was nothing but EQ or FFXI to turn to.

TOR on the other hand I'm enjoying the hell out of when I can play it.

The test will be six months from now then.

[Cadaverine]

Different game for different players.  I struggled to find SWG enjoyable and didn't last more than 6 months - and only that long because there was nothing but EQ or FFXI to turn to.

TOR on the other hand I'm enjoying the hell out of when I can play it.

I'm enjoying TOR for what it is, but I don't think I'll be playing it in six, maybe three, months.  To me, it seems like a great single player game, that's had a crappy MMO shoehorned in solely for the sake of slapping a monthly fee on.

SWG may have been a broken mess, and it had less to do than TOR, but I played the hell out of it for three odd years before I finally burned out while trying to unlock my Jedi slot.  Part of that is due to what my options where at the time, but a lot was simply because SWG made me a part of it's world in a way that TOR doesn't

[Mrbloodworth]

They lost me with the NGE. I played from beta. Granted i had a lot more time then, but I didn't have levels keeping me from playing with friends.

I'm getting really bitter about levels in games. For me now, its just a wall stopping me from playing with friends.

[Surlyboi]

Beta to the NGE and then a little after that. I'll still play the EMU and SWTOR will hold me for a long time as well, but there will be nothing like that first couple of years of SWG.

[Soln]

NGE broke everyone, but I was already hurting with the CU (Combat Upgrade), prelude to NGE. 

I thought BW did a nice job with the end of the Tython epic quest where you get a lightsaber, but I don't understand why they didn't keep that uniqueness to crafting sabers throughout the rest of the game.  Lightsabers are just more vending machine, random drops.  In SWG you had to visit shrines (ignoring FS old man unlock, although the randomness was a carrot) and you had to hand craft all future sabers.  I miss that.  I wish BW had put in personal LS and other signature weapon crafting.  As it stands, the quest-for-magic-WoW-pants is getting old already.  "Buy a better saber off the AH"?

[Mrbloodworth]

It's a more civilized age.

[5150]

I disagree that core gameplay has to equal combat in a MMO sandbox. 

It does in a game with the name STAR WARS on it. 

No Star Wars was always about a Father and his son (and some shit called Midi-chlorians), everything else was just window dressing for them to make up!

[Tannhauser]

No, Star Wars was about a plucky little droid who saves the galaxy time and again.

[Surlyboi]

No, Star Wars was about a plucky little droid who saves the galaxy time and again.

This.

Also, Soln has a great point in a missed opportunity for SWTOR with the lack of saber crafting. I understand why they did it, but it still could have had an insane impact on the force-user's journeys.

[Phred]

No, Star Wars was about a plucky little droid who saves the galaxy time and again.

This.

Also, Soln has a great point in a missed opportunity for SWTOR with the lack of saber crafting. I understand why they did it, but it still could have had an insane impact on the force-user's journeys.

Except it completely ignores that this is an entirely different time, with hordes of jedi walking around, so a light saber is not exactly a rare and special tool.

[UnSub]

Plus a plasma sword is the kind of useful item that no home can do without. It:

 - Slices
 - Dices
 - Cuts down trees
 - Makes adding space for new doors to your home simple (and fun!)
 - Acts as a flashlight at night
 - Is great for New Year's Eve celebrations

and a whole host of other uses.

[Surlyboi]

No, Star Wars was about a plucky little droid who saves the galaxy time and again.

This.

Also, Soln has a great point in a missed opportunity for SWTOR with the lack of saber crafting. I understand why they did it, but it still could have had an insane impact on the force-user's journeys.

Except it completely ignores that this is an entirely different time, with hordes of jedi walking around, so a light saber is not exactly a rare and special tool.

Except it still is. Even in the old republic, jedi built their own sabers.

[Fordel]

My Inquisitor just got me a hand-me-down saber without much fan fair.

[Lantyssa]

Bah!  It was her saber as an apprentice.  You don't need trumpets, just the knowledge that it is a very special weapon.

A very special weapon my Inquisitor uses to touch herself with every night.

[Fordel]

 

[Rasix]

Umm.. yah.       

I'm not really sure how to respond to that.

[Ingmar]

[Paelos]

Bah!  It was her saber as an apprentice.  You don't need trumpets, just the knowledge that it is a very special weapon.

A very special weapon my Inquisitor uses to touch herself with every night.

Go on...

 

[Lantyssa]

At least someone appreciates my humor.  I should have expected it from someone classy enough to wear a top hat.