Summer Expansion - Incarna

[Simond]

I mean, it's really hard to walk. How do I get my guy in the middle of my screen? When I zoom in, the camera moves so he is on the left.

There is a setting for camera location/offset.

Is there a setting to not make it a terribly built, shittily implemented waste of development time and resources?

[Stabs]

As someone who's a relatively new player I agree broadly speaking with Bloodworth - it's an astonishing explosion of conservativism in reaction to changes with negligible impact.

- Monocles. Well what's hilarious was the initial outrage was from people who clearly hoped to buy one so as to lord it over the peasants then realised to their horror that they could not comfortably afford them and would in turn be lorded over by more successful players. (In-game success, I doubt more than a couple have been purchased other than with isk).

- Incarna. I like the idea I could be an Amarrian prince, walking down the concourse of a space station with loyalists bowing to me and perhaps a Minnie, in disguise as a slave, waiting to take a potshot. It's a massive project that will take at least a decade at the rate they are going but quite a cool one. It of course has synergies with the Vampire game and DUST and so on but even just in Eve terms it is an interesting line. Considered in those terms you can see why it's not optional, if in some future Eve I can wait for you in a dark corridor of your station when you dock up it would be lame if you have the option to not see the Walking in Stations feature.

- Player power. I think where they messed up was giving the CSM a quasi constitutional role ("a partner in development" was the phrase iirc) which they never intended to honour. And I don't think they should. Imagine if a work of art, say the Mona Lisa, were designed by a committee of thousands of nerds. "Give her bigger tits", "Make her blond", it would not have made a better painting. I think the whole industry is just plain daft regarding placating the customer base, imagine in football (soccer) if strikers could debate when caught offside and lobby to get the rule changed. Players are possibly the worse people to design a game and it was stupid to tell us all we're "partners" because the player base as a whole has taken that to mean "in charge".

- Bitter vets, rage quits. Probably healthy. The ship certainly seems to have righted itself and it's good for the newer players if old isk rich high skill points players leave gaps for us to step into.

Playing Eve - I'm having a lot of fun just now. I just participated in a Live Event that was brutal. I flew a Logi and like most of the logis who turned up lost my ship. It was brutal. Fortunately incursions are an isk treadmill.

[tgr]

- Player power. I think where they messed up was giving the CSM a quasi constitutional role ("a partner in development" was the phrase iirc) which they never intended to honour. And I don't think they should. Imagine if a work of art, say the Mona Lisa, were designed by a committee of thousands of nerds. "Give her bigger tits", "Make her blond", it would not have made a better painting. I think the whole industry is just plain daft regarding placating the customer base, imagine in football (soccer) if strikers could debate when caught offside and lobby to get the rule changed. Players are possibly the worse people to design a game and it was stupid to tell us all we're "partners" because the player base as a whole has taken that to mean "in charge".

This would possibly be valid if CCP had been in touch with what makes a good game. If CCP had been making the Mona Lisa, it would look like



and the CSM would probably be telling them to make her prettier for gods sake.

[Viin]

This would possibly be valid if CCP had been in touch with what makes a good game. If CCP had been making the Mona Lisa, it would look like

--insert cute girl dressed up to look ugly here--

and the CSM would probably be telling them to make her prettier for gods sake.

I don't think thats true at all. I think CCP has done a marvelous job creating a very cool niche game that has become more and more popular over the years. It is at the point now where it is much bigger than it was even 3-4 years ago, and they are going to have the same growing pains any company has as it shifts from young immature company to one that employees hundreds. The pain you are seeing is simply the inexperience showing as new folks are hired to fill the gaps in their growing company org.

While that could be fatal to EVE, I except them to get over this rough patch and continue to perform strongly. Now DUST and Vamps might be a different story, but we haven't seen much of those just yet.

[Kageru]

I think it's just Hubris. Eve survived despite them because of a novel setting and mechanic which allowed a interesting user community to crystallize giving meaning to the terrible game-play.  Now they want to transition into being a serious game company with multiple titles but they're not that good, their talent pool is shallow, they're letting Eve rot and they're dangerously over-exposed to Dust and WoD. Incarna failed as an expansion because it did not address serious gameplay concerns, antagonized the player base and added nothing significant (future potential doesn't count, Eve has always had lots). That failure is reflected in server activity which should have gotten an uptick from new content but instead is trending downwards.

Dust already has two strikes against it. It is aimed to tie into the Eve Sov system, but this system is already sickly. It was also obviously intended to be on the Xbox but they didn't do their research in terms of microsoft's limitations on the platform. It's also going to further antagonize the Eve community who will now find their gameplay linked to events outside their own game. I mean the idea is novel, and intriguing from a game design perspective, but good luck on selling it as an advantage.

CSM has no power. It's just PR for when they shoot themselves in the foot. That's why it was created after all.

[tgr]

I don't think thats true at all. I think CCP has done a marvelous job creating a very cool niche game that has become more and more popular over the years. It is at the point now where it is much bigger than it was even 3-4 years ago, and they are going to have the same growing pains any company has as it shifts from young immature company to one that employees hundreds. The pain you are seeing is simply the inexperience showing as new folks are hired to fill the gaps in their growing company org.

While that could be fatal to EVE, I except them to get over this rough patch and continue to perform strongly. Now DUST and Vamps might be a different story, but we haven't seen much of those just yet.

It is a very cool game, I wouldn't be playing it otherwise. It's not a good game, though, and its quality went down when dominion came out and supercapitals were buffed (instead of given proper roles) and the SOV system became a matter of just punching through 4-5 timers in a row (or losing one of them and being reset all the way to the beginning). Wars, which is basically what 0.0 lives off of, and which is the majority of EVE's advertizing, has gone from being a proper brawl where there's give and take because one side has the upper hand at different points of the campaign, to a brawl which is decided in 1-3 fights with supercapitals. Most wars since dominion was released has been over in almost always literally 2-3 weeks, and our fountain campaign against IT and their pets was no exception.

It's really just like going to a restaurant and expecting a hearty meal, only to be presented with a small appetizer.

[TripleDES]

- Monocles. Well what's hilarious was the initial outrage was from people who clearly hoped to buy one so as to lord it over the peasants then realised to their horror that they could not comfortably afford them and would in turn be lorded over by more successful players. (In-game success, I doubt more than a couple have been purchased other than with isk).

It's not just the monocles. Pretty much any customization items will be in the 10-30$ range. That's fucking stupid, considering real life counterparts cost pretty much the same. That's why people are upset at NEX.

[Amaron]

The new blog is hilarious.   A full low-tier outfit is 1 plex.   Mid-tier outfits are supposed to cost 3-4 plex. 

[Sir T]

These are the people that were charging $120 dollers for a model of a battleship

   

Good thing they learned their lesson on that. They are now only $75.  

[Amaron]

Are those things plastic or metal?  If they are plastic then: 

[Sir T]

Are those things plastic or metal?  If they are plastic then:  

Heres the blurb

http://store.eveonline.com/Amarr-Apocalypse-EVE-Battleship-Collection-P122.aspx

You've brought it to battle...
now bring it home.

Its graceful golden shell being lined with a deadly array of turrets, the Amarr Apocalypse is as beautiful as it is deadly. Originally only attainable by those in high favor with the Emperor, it has since become a mainstay of Amarrian fleets.

For fans and collectors alike

The EVE Online Battleship Models are constructed from a solid resin foundation and are mounted, ready for display, on a base emblazoned with the associated faction logo. The meticulous reproduction of EVE Online's ships is achieved through a combination of plastic detailing, cast metal components, and hand painted accents. The end result is a striking replica of the very ships soaring through space in New Eden.

About the Sculptors

Nick Sainton-Clark is a master of model making and special effects with over 20 years of experience to his name. Alan Brannan is a veteran model maker whose credits include work on Red Dwarf, Doctor Who, AVP, Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy and the next Harry Potter Film. Sainton Design in its collaboration with CCP/White Wolf is committed to creating high quality collectors models that capture the grace and detail of their digital originals.

Dimensions

Height: 18.5 cm
Length: 38.5 cm
Width: 12.5 cm
Weight: 1180 g

Item #:    11138
Our Price:    $74.99

To be honest if they were $20 I might be tempted, but at that price its  territory

[tmp]

It's not just the monocles. Pretty much any customization items will be in the 10-30$ range. That's fucking stupid, considering real life counterparts cost pretty much the same. That's why people are upset at NEX.

Heck, you can get a real life monocle for as little as 17$

[Lantyssa]

Awesome.  They chose the ugliest of the Amarr ships.

[tmp]

Hmm these ships are priced at $75. The shipping costs are pretty crazy but i suppose that's not exactly in CCP's control?

(the price isn't too different from plastic model kits of similar size, and these you have to assemble yourself. On the other hand, that's part of the fun)

[Comstar]

The new blog is hilarious.   A full low-tier outfit is 1 plex.   Mid-tier outfits are supposed to cost 3-4 plex.  

They aren't even *trying* to pretend that walking in stations is going to be a good addition to the game. Good luck with walking around the casino and everyone wearing the same clothes.


On the other hand, the new Incarna trailer is like watching a propaganda movie to join Goonswarm. Back before they changed probing, you COULD be that Interceptor pilot. I ever flew that mission, though I never managed to be the fleet warp in. These days, the FC will be using his own alt account to do it, no one uses Blasters for close range work and 200km Sniper Battleship fleets are laughed at as obsolete.

It would have been true 2 years ago though, back in the 1st and 2nd Great Eve Wars. These days...supercaps online, all the time (though ALPHAFLEET is pretty cool to be in when the jammer stays up).

[TripleDES]

And there's deluxe tier clothes, where a set will cost wayyyyyyyy more than 3-4 PLEX. How much dollars is a PLEX anyway?

Heck, you can get a real life monocle for as little as 17$

But this is just an analogue monocle!  


vvvv Does CCP have a casino license? 

[Sparky]

Good luck with walking around the casino and everyone wearing the same clothes.

You just know their Space Casino will only accept bets in Aurum  

[Mrbloodworth]

The new blog is hilarious.   A full low-tier outfit is 1 plex.   Mid-tier outfits are supposed to cost 3-4 plex. 

To be fair, thats for an entire outfit. slots: Footwear, Bottoms, Tops, Outer, and Eyewear slots. So, 1-5$ an item, roundabouts.

[Amaron]

I said outfit in the first place.

To be fair

...

[TripleDES]

I just checked, a PLEX is 15 bucks. 45-60 bucks for a fucking virtual outfit. Yeah, that's sure reasonable.

--edit: And it's a total of five slots, where one is eye wear. So you're looking at an average of 9 to 15 bucks per slot item.

[Sir T]

... for a medium range outfit.

[IainC]

... for a medium range outfit.

That nobody else but you can see if it's below nipple level.

[eldaec]

Meaning 1B in isk. Meh. Whatever.

I'm just concerned that CCP are still wasting time on this.



People who have seen the ship models irl report that they are pretty cool and if you are at a place in your life where public display of an internet spaceship model is not going to reduce the chances of you having sex then you could do worse with $75.

[tmp]

To be fair, thats for an entire outfit. slots: Footwear, Bottoms, Tops, Outer, and Eyewear slots. So, 1-5$ an item, roundabouts.

In the comments thread for that blog the CCP guy says not only they don't have fixed amount of slots that go for every "entire" outfit, they haven't even decided anything in this regard, yet.

[Morfiend]

[Stabs]

- Monocles. Well what's hilarious was the initial outrage was from people who clearly hoped to buy one so as to lord it over the peasants then realised to their horror that they could not comfortably afford them and would in turn be lorded over by more successful players. (In-game success, I doubt more than a couple have been purchased other than with isk).

It's not just the monocles. Pretty much any customization items will be in the 10-30$ range. That's fucking stupid, considering real life counterparts cost pretty much the same. That's why people are upset at NEX.

It's still only upsetting if you wanted one. I wouldn't buy a cosmetic item to wear for $2 because I don't care what my character looks like.

I could see using them for game advantage. I toyed with the idea of putting a monocle on a character in a tanky ship, sitting him outside Jita 4-4, neutral remote repping him and salvaging all the concorded people who attacked him but it didn't seem I would recover the cost of the monocle from the salvage. Plus you can never take it off afaik so once you use it you have a toon who is only usable as bait.

[tmp]

You just know their Space Casino will only accept bets in Aurum  

I imagine some sort of Pink Slip Strip Poker could actually work well. Send the other guy/gal naked and crying *and* take their precious clothes for yourself.

[Mrbloodworth]

To be fair, thats for an entire outfit. slots: Footwear, Bottoms, Tops, Outer, and Eyewear slots. So, 1-5$ an item, roundabouts.

In the comments thread for that blog the CCP guy says not only they don't have fixed amount of slots that go for every "entire" outfit, they haven't even decided anything in this regard, yet.

Well yeah, individual prices are sure to vary. How much is a banana suit in free Relms?

Apparently a Purple Frog Mask is 6$.

[TripleDES]

I could see using them for game advantage. I toyed with the idea of putting a monocle on a character in a tanky ship, sitting him outside Jita 4-4, neutral remote repping him and salvaging all the concorded people who attacked him but it didn't seem I would recover the cost of the monocle from the salvage. Plus you can never take it off afaik so once you use it you have a toon who is only usable as bait.

You should be able to take off and switch items, but they're not regular ship/character cargo. That means they survive podding, and they're available everywhere at all time, as soon you're in your CQ. If they wouldn't survive podding, that'd be really fucking stupid. Then again, they're already putting insane prices on that stuff.

[Kageru]

Plus you can never take it off afaik so once you use it you have a toon who is only usable as bait.

It doesn't follow you when you clone jump (get a message to that effect) so I imagine it is removable. I believe if you ship it as cargo it goes down with the ship, if you have it equipped you retain it on your med-clone. Which is a bit weird.

The whole thing is just silly though. They're losing the faith of their player-base and looking like greedy fools more than anything else. That or really desperate for any trickle of cash they can manage. And the clothing is really IKEA level boring. The stupid mount in WoW was functional, visible and fancy... these are invisible.

[TripleDES]

It doesn't follow you when you clone jump (get a message to that effect)

What? You have to take your shit with you in ship cargo? Hell yea, I can't await all the whining about hundreds of dollars being blown up by pirates or stupid bugs that by chance haven't been logged (like about everything else).

[Amaron]

Reading through the forums nobody is actually upset that some item they want costs too much.   That should tell CCP all they need to know.

[Stabs]

I agree with most of you on the clothing. Even if other players were more than just a talking head the clothing seems more or less the same as the clothing in the character creator.

I suppose the big thing is that effectively we didn't get an expansion. Previous expansions have added major features like wormholes or supercarriers. This introduced CQ which almost everyone has turned off, a cash shop no one uses and not a lot else. Plus there's the prospect of several future expansions that also tweak Incarna without giving those of us who play internet spaceships any additional gameplay depth.

Even the PI expansion was a better addition to Eve than this. Apart from the rage and forum drama we got nothing. And the prospect of future expansions proudly unveiling more nothing.

[tmp]

What? You have to take your shit with you in ship cargo?

No, you have to buy two copies

[Kageru]

One copy of each clothing item per jump clone you care about.

If they tried to sell this idea when there was a social space, and people could see your gear, it would look a *little* bit less insane. My avatar is currently a tiny little box in local. Even if I was determined enough to buy all this stuff I'd never see it.

(Obviously I have CQ turned off, like most of Eve I suspect).