Summer Expansion - Incarna

[eldaec]

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=914

Walking in a-small-room-making-no-contact-with-other-players.

On the upside the existing station menu is intact alongside the WoD tech demo, so the only impact is the inevitable extended loading time when you dock.The implication is that they'll only make you use the 1990s style buttons-hidden-in-furniture interface as they add new station functionality.


CCP are also claiming that the new 'walking' functionality is built on an extensible and well documented platform so they can additional functionality in future expansions. Laffo.

[Mrbloodworth]

About time.

[Sir T]

Add ability to be a furry or gtfo.

[Kitsune]

Those bastards are trying to nerf our station spinning!

[Comstar]

The Future is Dark. And Brown! And Badly lit! I have enough money to buy a planet but I can't get the station cleaner to upgrade my light bulbs.

Pretty impressive that they are adding in a feature that makes me less want to signup again.

[MahrinSkel]

It's a "feature" that nobody wants, that nobody believes will improve the game in any way, and that is obviously sucking up a huge amount of Eve development resources for no purpose except to move the cost of developing the underlying technology from R&D for their other projects to the Eve budget.  Eve managed to dodge the bullet for a long time, but the inevitable decline has begun (it's just been plateaued for a long time before this).  Combine with the "fuck it, we'll just nerf Jumpgates" fix for what nobody thought was a problem, and this is how a game dies.

--Dave

[Gets]

Walking in Closets. Also it makes the install fuckhuge.

[tazelbain]

Maybe a decline for Eve was inevitable.  But this isn't that decline.  This decline was self inflicted.

[MahrinSkel]

Maybe a decline for Eve was inevitable.  But this isn't that decline.  This decline was self inflicted.

In the end, they always are.

--Dave

[Thrawn]

Eve managed to dodge the bullet for a long time, but the inevitable decline has begun (it's just been plateaued for a long time before this). 
--Dave

Seems someone says this almost every patch.  I think this is the first time I actually believe it.

[UnsGub]

It's a "feature" that nobody wants, that nobody believes will improve the game in any way, and that is obviously sucking up a huge amount of Eve development resources for no purpose except to move the cost of developing the underlying technology from R&D for their other projects to the Eve budget.

It is tech from their other game.  They had a graph at Fan Fest that showed 70%-80% of their tech is designed and built as MMO platform, (support, billing, accounts, patching, content pipeline, etc), that they will not be licensing out.

I am impressed they have 600 people working on three games, just off the income of Eve.  They want to spend tme and money on some of their own features so be it.  They already stated the future of Eve is not the players currently playing but the ones not playing and they need new features to draw them in.

[MahrinSkel]

As a game designer and businessman, it's hard to say they're making the wrong call, it long since became clear that the niche Eve occupies doesn't have any kind of explosive growth potential.  It makes sense for them to turn to other projects for their future business.  Eve's design clearly peaked with the expansion that brought in Jumpgates, although there were potential routes to move forward, either they just didn't commit the resources it would have taken to execute them, or they took a wrong turn, or they just weren't as promising as they looked, and Eve has been on a plateau of design ever since.  The sovereignty overhaul just didn't really deliver *new* gameplay, but it didn't take any away, either.  Neither did T3, or Wormhole Space, and everything else has just been fiddling in the margins.

And that's fine, and a lot of people have had a lot of fun with it in this form.  But the jumpbridge nerf was the first major step *backwards* in design, the first time they have outright thrown in the towel and said "we just don't want to deal with the complexity anymore, so we're going to simplify it whether you like it or not."  And Incarna is just fluff, it would have been a nice bit of ornamentation around the edges but as the focus of the yearly expansion (which has always meant entire new areas of gameplay being added) it's underwhelming, and becomes even less impressive the closer it gets.

Hey, it had a good run, did better than any other game of the type ever had.  And it's not going to die overnight, there will still be fleets flying around for years.  But this is the turning point, it's all downhill from here, and the days when legends stalked the jump lines and everybody had a chance to be the "first" at something are gone.

--Dave

[eldaec]

Wormhole space introduced new gameplay.

And incursions are the only worthwhile group pve they've ever attempted.

Both features are woefully underdeveloped ofc.

[Mrbloodworth]

It's a "feature" that nobody wants, that nobody believes will improve the game in any way, and that is obviously sucking up a huge amount of Eve development resources for no purpose except to move the cost of developing the underlying technology from R&D for their other projects to the Eve budget.  Eve managed to dodge the bullet for a long time, but the inevitable decline has begun (it's just been plateaued for a long time before this).  Combine with the "fuck it, we'll just nerf Jumpgates" fix for what nobody thought was a problem, and this is how a game dies.

--Dave

No one wants to get out of the ships?

News to me. Its a main reason I don't play.

[Numtini]

News to me. Its a main reason I don't play.

So walking around your captains quarters and a station will make you play?

Or is it that the game is "internet spaceships" and you don't like internet space ships, but not being a person based game is the symbol of that.

[eldaec]

Plenty of people are going ape shit over how great this will apparently be.

My only particular gripe with it is the amount of developer resource being wasted on a project that has no actual gameplay even planned for it.

If the line was 'We're building an fps into eve, you play planetside as part of the station capture cycle', then I'd still think this is dangerously diluting the core game, but whatever, I can at least see the plan.

As it stands what is going to happen is that Vampires in Stations fans are going to get annoyed when they realise that this is just a buttons-in-furniture interface, and the rest of us are going to continue to get more and more irritated by the halfassed content being served up into EVE Online : A bad game about internet spaceships.

[UnsGub]

My only particular gripe with it is the amount of developer resource being wasted on a project that has no actual gameplay even planned for it.

Iterative development.  They will release something sooner rather than wait till it has full complete game play.  Much like Sony with EQ expansion raid zones from a decade ago.

Contraband trading is going to be in person only.  Once walking about is in place they will be adding more gameplay to it.

[MahrinSkel]

Wormhole space introduced new gameplay.

And incursions are the only worthwhile group pve they've ever attempted.

Both features are woefully underdeveloped ofc.

When you compare them to the massive expansion of gameplay potential that accompanied T2, or capital ships, or the original Sovereignty introduction, or jumpgates....

Eve in 2003 was a much simpler, less exciting game than Eve 2005, which had the same relationship to Eve 2007.  But Eve 2007 and Eve 2010 were very much the same, and the nerfing of jumpgates is going to make Eve 2012 more like 2005.  But you'll be able to walk around in a closet.

--Dave

[Dark_MadMax]

No one wants to get out of the ships?

News to me. Its a main reason I don't play.
[/quote]

Really? Methinks you looking for game that eve never was and never will be, avatars or not . If EvE had combat like in black prophecy I would sub right away.

[Mrbloodworth]

News to me. Its a main reason I don't play.

So walking around your captains quarters and a station will make you play?

Or is it that the game is "internet spaceships" and you don't like internet space ships, but not being a person based game is the symbol of that.

The path to making you more than "Just a ship" is a good one. I love me some space flight games, but I am sick of just being a ship. It was cool when Wing commander was new. But even that series TRIED to make it feel like you were not just a ship. TRIED.

One of my other reasons for not playing eve is no twitch combat. But thats another topic.

[Gets]

The path to making you more than "Just a ship" is a good one. I love me some space flight games, but I am sick of just being a ship.

Become a bad poster. Like I did.

[Gets]

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=913

Microtransactions. PLEX can be turned into Aurum (latin for gold, really CCP?).

[Kageru]

Iterative development.  They will release something sooner rather than wait till it has full complete game play.  Much like Sony with EQ expansion raid zones from a decade ago.

Contraband trading is going to be in person only.  Once walking about is in place they will be adding more gameplay to it.

I don't think that will be in? And even if it was it is not gameplay so much as a bribe to use the new facility. Because they know that if they just release the "avatar spinning" expansion without it giving a benefit to gameplay people won't use it. Most games that have tried to enforce a social space do something similar (and XP boost in fallen earth, SWG Fatigue, WoW's original bonus XP).

[Sir T]

I am impressed they have 600 people working on three games, just off the income of Eve.

Makes you think just how much money they are making off selling PLEX, dosent it?
Then again you have to remember that the Russian mafia started the second great war over the money they were making off RMT.

Speaking of which...

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=913

Microtransactions. PLEX can be turned into Aurum (latin for gold, really CCP?).

Hey, its even easier to sell real life cash...

[IainC]

The over-riding impression that I got from CCP at the winter summit was that they had no idea how to iterate on Incarna once it was implemented. Questions about 'what sort of content will be added to give this feature value' were handwaved away. You will have 'Incarna content' which will be extremely limited in scope and then you'll leave it behind whenever you take part in the core gameplay of Eve: A Game About Flying Spaceships.

The PLEX thing I'm not surprised about at all. A single PLEX is not a very flexible unit of currency. You won't want to swap ~$12 worth of game time for an ingame hat. As long as CCP stick to their word about it being for account level services and vanity items only I don't much care about that.

[Gets]

CCP:"PLEX prices won't be affected significantly."

PLEX just went up 10%.

[eldaec]

The spike is being caused by pubbie speculators. It'll overcorrect downward over the weekend in all probability (all prices in EVE fall at the weekend).

[eldaec]

The problem with customizability, however, is the amount of time and resources needed to produce unique items and variations. Bear in mind that our HQ is a renovated fish processing plant, not the Wonka factory, and we're fresh out of Oompa Loompas to build these incredible things. So we're left with the question of how to give you the customizability and uniqueness you want without simply raising the subscription rate.

So, how many additional developers/artists are being hired for EVE Online : A Bad Game? Because if the answer is zero (the answer is zero), then this is a lot of bullshit.

[Viin]

I think the speculation further up the thread is right: CCP knows there's no more growth potential in EVE (at least not a significant amount). The best they can hope for is getting people to sub MORE accounts, which seems to be past it's peak as well - the only way to increase multiple subs would be to introduce "features" that require multiple accounts to use most effectively.

Why are they trying to add tech from another game into EVE? Not for EVE, it's probably so they can test the new tech for performance and bugs on a significant pool of users readily available.

Best bet for them is to release a new game with a different focus targeted at gamers that don't currently play Eve (especially those that never will due to the nature of the game).

[Gets]

EVE 2: Tanks In Space.

[Mrbloodworth]

You know what would help eve?

Allowing people to get out of ships, and adding customization options ETC....

Removal of drones and implementation of Twitch combat for the fighter sized ( AKA Drones ) ships. You can leave the spreadsheet to the cap-ship players.

[Gets]

How would this completely new game help Eve?

[Surlyboi]

Meh, I still want boarding actions.

Failing that, I'll continue to manipulate currencies and bankroll dirty deeds.

[luckton]

How would this completely new game help Eve?

Probably in a similar fashion that DUST is allegedly going to do...allow people to play a different game that impacts the other game.

Allowing people to get out of ships, and adding customization options ETC....

Removal of drones and implementation of Twitch combat for the fighter sized ( AKA Drones ) ships. You can leave the spreadsheet to the cap-ship players.

So, Jumpgate with EVE DirectX 11 coat-of-paint?  I like it

[Mrbloodworth]

How would this completely new game help Eve?

For starters. It would be better. No one said anything about a completely new game.