NFL 2011

[Rasix]

Who's going to play him this year anyhow? No one's that desperate. Moot point.

[01101010]

I think the Pryor issue was more because he deliberately hired an agent to get suspended, i.e. he hired an agent to get suspended to specifically get draftable.  I think it's a legitimate reason to suspend him for 5 games.  He's manipulating the system to get an advantage that others might not get. 

Regardless, he was technically still in college - and what advantage is he going to actually get? Couple extra practice squad paychecks?    I get what you are saying but I mean, Reggie Bush single-handedly fucked an entire program AND had to give back the Heisman.

[Chimpy]

EDIT: Also, why would you take Freeman or Ryan over Rodgers? Rodgers has already won a Super Bowl and is only a year or two older than those two.

Because everyone under-rates how good Rodgers really is because he replaced Favre who is one of the best (if not the best) to ever play, and he was fun to watch when he played to boot?

Which reminds me, I might need to get the basic 12 channel cable just so I can watch football this fall now that I have a TV :/

[Paelos]

I'm kinda surprised so many of you would take Manning over Brees. I wouldn't. Hell, did yall not watch the Super Bowl?

[ghost]

Rodgers is really, really damned good.  I don't know if I wouldn't take him first out of everyone available right now. 

[Sjofn]

EDIT: Also, why would you take Freeman or Ryan over Rodgers? Rodgers has already won a Super Bowl and is only a year or two older than those two.

Because everyone under-rates how good Rodgers really is because he replaced Favre who is one of the best (if not the best) to ever play, and he was fun to watch when he played to boot?

It's funny for me, because when Rodgers was at Cal, I didn't once think to myself, "Man, this guy is going to be so good in the NFL." So I still have a hard time wrapping my brain around the fact that he is, in fact, so good in the NFL.

[HaemishM]

I'm kinda surprised so many of you would take Manning over Brees. I wouldn't. Hell, did yall not watch the Super Bowl?

Peyton Manning? Yeah, I'd take him over Brees. The body of his work kind of speaks for itself. Plus, he's been able to carry a team, and if the broadcasters are to be believed, he's an O-coordinator out on the field. He's gotten them into the playoffs repeatedly with some really suspect receivers. While I don't think any of Brees wideouts are as good as Reggie Wayne on an individual level, I do think every one of them is better than Manning's current corps.

[Sjofn]

I hope Manning the Greater winds up a coach instead of a stupid announcer once he's done playing.

[Cyrrex]

Rodgers is really, really damned good.  I don't know if I wouldn't take him first out of everyone available right now. 

He'd be my guy if I was building a team.  He's a major success already now, and he still has a bunch of upside.  He's also cool as a fucking cucumber.  Is there any QB in the league more unflappable (less flappable?  that don't sound right) than Rodgers?  Not for my money.

He probably isn't my Fantasy QB, but that's a different story.

[ghost]

I hope Manning the Greater winds up a coach instead of a stupid announcer once he's done playing.

Fuck yes.  He sounds like a goddamned hick.  I would rather not be subjected to that the rest of my life.  

Edit:  It's not looking good for the Eagles....or my gambling.   

[Nebu]

Edit:  It's not looking good for the Eagles....or my gambling.   

Vick stats  5/12   47   3.9   0   3   13.5               

The 0 TD, 3 INT part is what I'd be concerned about against a preseason level of preparation.  I think Vick is a remarkable athlete.  I just don't think he has the savvy or patience to beat the better teams in the league, especially in the big games.  Vick is just too inconsistent against teams able to contain his running game. 

[ghost]

I've already picked my horse (or my dawg ) so I guess I'll ride it to the end-  he'll get better.  He's still shaking off the rust. 

[Nebu]

I've already picked my horse (or my dawg ) so I guess I'll ride it to the end-  he'll get better.  He's still shaking off the rust. 

I'll let you back out.  It's still early.  I do think that most of the Vegas books agree with you about Phili being one of the elite teams with a solid shot at the Super Bowl. 

[01101010]

Interesting to note these people around here coming off last week's debacle against the Redskins laughing that off as "it's preseason, no one gives a crap." Today, everyone is talking shit about how they destroyed the Eagles and Vick. The whole town needs to be put on seroquel asap. 

[Nebu]

I know that it's still preseason, but Brady looked pretty impressive against TB.  Maybe he can bring back the Chad Johnson of old.

[ghost]

I think Tom Brady is one of the top 2-3 quarterbacks to ever play the game.  He's simply amazing.  Last year was ridiculous. 

[naum]

I'm kinda surprised so many of you would take Manning over Brees. I wouldn't. Hell, did yall not watch the Super Bowl?

Peyton Manning? Yeah, I'd take him over Brees. The body of his work kind of speaks for itself. Plus, he's been able to carry a team, and if the broadcasters are to be believed, he's an O-coordinator out on the field. He's gotten them into the playoffs repeatedly with some really suspect receivers. While I don't think any of Brees wideouts are as good as Reggie Wayne on an individual level, I do think every one of them is better than Manning's current corps.

His "body of work" is the past and he's on a downward arc now. Especially if he does not have a solid supporting cast. There are at least a half-dozen QB I'd rather have starting for me than P. Manning now (and I used to scoff him up in FF drafts every year) -- Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger (yes, Big Ben, check Manning v. Ben stats for last 3 years, see how Ben has him beat, then factor in how Manning plays half his games in a dome and many of other scattered in southern warm weather locales via division play whereas Steelers play outside in inclement weather for 3-4 games outside of Heinz field), Brady (who still is solid), etc..... In fact, I think I'd take Matt Ryan over Peyton Manning right now.

[naum]

Interesting to note these people around here coming off last week's debacle against the Redskins laughing that off as "it's preseason, no one gives a crap." Today, everyone is talking shit about how they destroyed the Eagles and Vick. The whole town needs to be put on seroquel asap. 

What else do they have to talk about right now? 

[01101010]

Interesting to note these people around here coming off last week's debacle against the Redskins laughing that off as "it's preseason, no one gives a crap." Today, everyone is talking shit about how they destroyed the Eagles and Vick. The whole town needs to be put on seroquel asap. 

What else do they have to talk about right now? 

Absolutely nothing now, power went out about two hours ago from a storm and everyone is now being "social." Of course, I just went home...

Browns are on tonight... here's hoping the McCoy show continues.

[caladein]

yes, Big Ben, check Manning v. Ben stats for last 3 years, see how Ben has him beat

Let's!

Code:

Year	Team	G	GS	PaYd	Comp	Att	C%	Plays	NetYd	NY/P	TD	Int	DYAR	Rk	YAR	Rk	DVOA	Rk	VOA	Rk
2010	PIT	12	12	3200	240	389	61.7%	417	3061	7.34	17	5	1238	7	1187	7	38.2%	2	36.2%	3
2009	PIT	15	15	4328	337	506	66.6%	563	4103	7.29	28	14	1390	8	1459	9	27.8%	8	29.7%	7
2008	PIT	16	16	3301	281	469	59.9%	518	3110	6.00	17	15	288	23	228	25	-2.2%	27	-4.1%	29

Code:

Year	Team	G	GS	PaYd	Comp	Att	C%	Plays	NetYd	NY/P	TD	Int	DYAR	Rk	YAR	Rk	DVOA	Rk	VOA	Rk
2010	IND	16	16	4700	450	679	66.3%	704	4747	6.74	33	17	1679	2	1880	2	25.0%	6	29.4%	5
2009	IND	16	16	4500	393	571	68.8%	591	4640	7.85	33	16	1936	2	2017	1	38.2%	5	40.3%	4
2008	IND	16	16	4002	371	555	66.8%	572	3967	6.94	27	12	1783	2	1780	2	36.1%	1	36.0%	2

Roethlisberger only had a better season than Manning last year if you prorate away his suspension, which is like prorating Micheal Vick into not a massive injury risk.  2009 is only close if you're looking at raw counting stats instead of adjusting for their schedules.  And 2008... well, that's a blow out.

[HaemishM]

Yeah, Manning's numbers are just better, period. More TD's, better accuracy, more yards (albeit in a passing offense with a shit running game).

[01101010]

Ben is an incredible quarterback when shit falls apart though. Favre-esc in a way.

[WayAbvPar]

Ben is an incredible quarterback when shit falls apart though. Favre-esc in a way.

But he is a smug rape-y douchebag and needs to choke to death on his own blood.


No, not bitter about XL at all. Why do you ask?

[Stewie]

I think Tom Brady is one of the top 2-3 quarterbacks to ever play the game.  He's simply amazing.  Last year was ridiculous. 

As a Dolphins fan I f'n despise Brady, yet I have to pretty much agree with this statement. Its his poise and ability to always find  the open guy and put the ball right where it needs to be. I am in awe of him pretty regularly.

[naum]

Roethlisberger only had a better season than Manning last year if you prorate away his suspension, which is like prorating Micheal Vick into not a massive injury risk.  2009 is only close if you're looking at raw counting stats instead of adjusting for their schedules.  And 2008... well, that's a blow out.

Eh, passing yards and completion % mean jack squat taken out of context:

Let's look at passer rating which takes 4 major stat cat (TD, int, YPA, C%)

08 - PM(95.0) v. BR(80.1)
09 - PM(99.9) v. BR(100.5)
10 - PM(91.9) v. BR(97.0)

Manning only surpasses Ben in '08, the year Ben wins a super bowl with game winning TD pass.

Passing YPA, which measures effectiveness better than any other stat

08 - PM (7.2) v. BR (7.0)
09 - PM (7.8) v. BR (8.5)
10 - PM (6.9) v. BR (8.2)

Again, Manning only barely nips Ben in '08, but who had the better post-season?

But here's another category not factored into passing, but very relevant to offense and drives:

Since 2004:
Ben Roethlisberger has rushed for 874 yards and 14 touchdowns.
Peyton Manning has rushed for 140 yards and 8 touchdowns.

And again, Roethlisberger plays at least 3/4 of his game in Pittsburgh or outside cold weather venues with wind, rain, snow, etc... whilst Manning plays 3/4 of his games under a dome or in more climate friendly southern (AFC South) locales…

Bringing Ben's off-season hijinks into the discussion really doesn't add to the comparison…

More stats here.
http://coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3781_James_Harrison_doesn%27t_know_how_lucky_he_is.html

[Ingmar]

Counterpoint would be the new metric (in the style of derived baseball metrics like WAR or EqA) ESPN came up with; Big Ben does not really come close to stacking up.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6834507/nfl-peyton-manning-top-two-qbr-seasons

[naum]

Counterpoint would be the new metric (in the style of derived baseball metrics like WAR or EqA) ESPN came up with; Big Ben does not really come close to stacking up.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6834507/nfl-peyton-manning-top-two-qbr-seasons

A few weeks back, heard the dudes that came up with this formula explain and justify (I believe on ESPN radio) -- I not so sure about it, Ben gets penalized for sacks, and I don't they give enough merit to big pass plays -- odd thing was they set out to "equalize" the ratings system in lieu of "dink & dunk" type passing in vogue today, but the system seems to reward even more those "dink & dunk" passers. But I like that it penalizes fumbles -- not so sure on sacks -- having a big QB who fends off rushers and make plays downfield, means also less money needed to splurge for beefy studly O-linemen to protect someone more fragile like Manning.

And again, those numbers don't handicap for QB who play in inclement weather 2-3X as much like Manning and Brees…

[Nebu]

Ben has the luxury of knowing that he can fuck up and his defense will bail him out.  That has to help a great deal in maintaining composure. 

[SnakeCharmer]

Unless you're playing fantasy leagues, the only state that matters is championships.  The rest is fluff.

[Nebu]

Unless you're playing fantasy leagues, the only state that matters is championships.  The rest is fluff.

Well, Fran Tarkenton is in the Hall of Fame.  It is possible to rate QB quality without mention of championships.   

[WayAbvPar]

Tarvaris Jackson update:
Still terrible.
 

[Paelos]

Tarvaris Jackson update:
Still terrible.
 

Tony Romo update:
Still can only throw to Witten.

[Merusk]

Cincinnati Bengals Announcers: Still making excuses about "trying to gel with this new lineup."

Then again they have 20 years practice.

God I wish they'd leave this city so I could watch something else.

[Paelos]

Cincinnati Bengals Announcers: Still making excuses about "trying to gel with this new lineup."

Then again they have 20 years practice.

God I wish they'd leave this city so I could watch something else.

Just wait. You are about to draft Pryor. 

[Bunk]

Tarvaris Jackson update:
Still terrible.
 

Whitehurst looked good on that 9 of 10 drive! Yea, it was against preseason scrubs, but hey, I'm trying to be positive for you.