The Hobbit (2012/2013)

[Azuredream]

Obviously we're just hating.  The concept of shooting things while surfing down a flight of stairs isn't patently fucking ridiculousawesome.

[Sjofn]

I totally own the D&D movie on DVD. For all the wrong reasons. 

[Tannhauser]

I rolled my eyes at the shield-surfing because it was so obviously fan-wank for the skateboard doodz.

And I can't think of a single RIGHT reason to own the DND movie.  Hmm, may have to get that.

All you guys dissing Haldir, remember he died saving two kings and a elf prince and who knows how many civilians.  Every single elf that showed up at Helm's Deep died.  Every.  Single.  One.

Legolas doesn't count, he a wood elf fag who consorts with humans and *gasp* dwarves!  Been out of the woods too long.

They should rename Helm's Deep to Haldir's Fall.  He was the real hero of Two Towers.

[Sheepherder]

I'm not sure the audiences for skateboarding and LotR intersect on a Venn diagram.

[Chimpy]

Large portions of my "letter to neckbeardy comic book fans" could apply to this discussion. 

[Ironwood]

I hadn't really considered the heroic nature of Haldir.

...

Because he was fat.

[Ingmar]

Putting elves at Helm's Deep at all was really just an excuse for them to use all those elf armor props they made anyway.

[eldaec]

Literally the only edit that bothered me in LotR was turning Faramir into an irrelevant pussy, who was even less capable of controlling himself around the ring than Boromir.

I really didn't give a crap about a few elves at Helms deep.

If I was being fussy I'd also say the battle of Gondor seemed a bit weak, but mainly because the dead guys resolved it in a matter of seconds, which kind of undercut the whole 'omg terrible threat' aspect of the thing. Oh, and everything involving Liv Tyler, obviously.

Skipping the ham-fisted allegory of Tom Bombadil is actually an improvement over the books. I really hate that section of the book. If we had to lose the barrow wight as a cost of also not having to put up with Tom fucking Bombadil I'll take that trade every time.

[Margalis]

Going back a bit, I dunno how anyone could come up with a different vision of how to stage Sam and Frodo in Mordor.

Really? The movie was full of overlong shots, wistful psuedo-romantic looks, no visible progress in their journey, etc. The problem wasn't that it was two guys undergoing generic suffering, the problem was specifically in the way it was staged and shot. It's like without a bunch of CGI trolls Jackson didn't know what to do to create anything interesting.

[Ironwood]

My main problem with Mordor was how damn sunny it was.

 

[Slyfeind]

Whenever I see Haldir dying in the movie, I go "Man, just like the book." It's such a simple troll, but it pisses off anyone I'm watching it with.

Also, synchornized chopping is about as realistic as shield-surfing. OH WELL I WIN.

[Ratman_tf]

Large portions of my "letter to neckbeardy comic book fans" could apply to this discussion. 

"The movie isn't shitty! You're just a neckbeard!"  

[Lakov_Sanite]

But could Sauron defeat the Emperor?

[Chimpy]

Large portions of my "letter to neckbeardy comic book fans" could apply to this discussion. 

"The movie isn't shitty! You're just a neckbeard!"  

Get over yourself. I could give a rat's ass about the Hobbit book or movie(s). But the last several pages have been little but wankery over minutae.

[UnSub]

But could Sauron defeat the Emperor?

I like to think they'd team up and spend time mocking Anakin Skywalker.

Sauron: "Would you like a drink, Palpatine?"

Emperor: "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"

Sauron: "How about a sandwich?"

Emperor: "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"

Vader: "You guys suck."

Emperor: "Suck it up, Annie."

[Luda]

Bah. According to Netflix, The Hobbit is not on DVD.  Maybe I can find this on ebay.

edit: yup. $4.99 +$3 SH on VHS.  I actually still have a working VHS.

It doesn't look like anyone ever replied to this.  FYI - The Hobbit cartoon does actually exist on DVD.  I know this because I own it.  

 http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=the+hobbit&hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=3921143886086333705&sa=X&ei=eVrkTc29N4rz0gG927i0Bw&ved=0CG4Q8wIwAw

[WindupAtheist]

But could Sauron defeat the Emperor?

People try to nerdfight with Tolkien and it just doesn't work that well, because nobody ever does anything cool or powerful where we can see it. Gandalf is supposedly uber, for example, but we never really get a firsthand description of him really laying the Kal Vas Flam on anybody. We do get a description of him being chased up a tree by wolves.

So the whole thing degenerates to the level of an argument over who the strongest Dragonball Z character is, if DBZ edited out all the fights and just left in the grunting and dialogue. Gandalf and the Balrog both have about the same power level, but Sauron has a higher power level than that, but if Gandalf put on the One Ring his power level would go over 9000 and he could kill Sauron with a Spirit Bomb. Or whatever.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Having never read the books, it's very hard to understand what the one ring actually DOES, besides turn people invisible.

[eldaec]

AFAIK the books don't really clarify, except in that it makes you more powerful, at a cost of addiction and eventual subservience to the dark lord. Also you sweat more and lose weight.

Pretty sure only hobbits become invisible? Which seems redundant when they also get given an elven invisibility cloak but hey.

[Mrbloodworth]

It has control over the other rings, and wearers.

[Sheepherder]

People try to nerdfight with Tolkien and it just doesn't work that well, because nobody ever does anything cool or powerful where we can see it. Gandalf is supposedly uber, for example, but we never really get a firsthand description of him really laying the Kal Vas Flam on anybody. We do get a description of him being chased up a tree by wolves.

All three are nominally the same race of demigods of varying skillsets: the balrog is a praetorian guard, and Gandalf and Sauron are opposing generals with an emphasis on leadership and technology, respectively.  If you just threw all three into a cage match prior to the rings being forged the balrog wins.

Having never read the books, it's very hard to understand what the one ring actually DOES, besides turn people invisible.

The Ring's primary power was control of the other Rings of Power, including "mastery over [their] powers" and domination of the wills of their users. By extension, the Ring also conferred the power to dominate the wills of other beings whether they were wearing Rings or not. However, this is its least accessible power since it granted this ability in proportion to the user's natural capacity. In the same way, it amplified any inherent power its owner possessed.

It might have also given its wielder the ability to read minds, as Galadriel suggested to Frodo when he asked if he could learn to communicate telepathically as she did. On at least one occasion, the Ring sharpened its wearer's hearing at the expense of his visual acuity, and it may at that time have granted understanding of unknown languages.

When Sam encountered an orc in the Tower of Cirith Ungol and held the Ring, he appeared to the orc as a powerful warrior cloaked in shadow "[holding] some nameless menace of power and doom." The orc was so terrified of this vision of the otherwise unintimidating Sam that it fled. Similarly at Mount Doom, when Frodo and Sam were attacked by Gollum, Frodo grabbed the Ring and appeared as "a figure robed in white... [and] it held a wheel of fire." In this scene, Frodo also accessed a second power of the Ring. Frodo told Gollum "in a commanding voice" that "If you touch me ever again, you shall be cast yourself into the Fire of Doom," a statement fulfilled when Gollum fell into Mount Doom with the Ring. Although the Ring was certainly invoked with this statement, it is unclear whether Frodo was prophesying a fate of Gollum (Frodo previously had less sinister visions while in possession of the Ring), or if Frodo was laying a curse upon Gollum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Ring#Powers

[Lakov_Sanite]

All three are nominally the same race of demigods

This i where I start having doubts about ever actually reading the books. I mean some things just start sounding like fanfiction, ok so the one ring is pretty powerful what can it do?

*insert five year old voice* Well first off it as the power of ALL the other rings and if you wear it you can control all the other people who wear the rings and even some that don't! Plus it um, makes you more powerful and enhances any power you already had!

[WindupAtheist]

All I know is I'm betting on the Emperor. He isn't afraid to do his cool moves on camera.

[Ironwood]

Also, it made you Sauron.  All his power bitches.

[Slyfeind]

I totally own the D&D movie on DVD. For all the wrong reasons. 

Meaning you actually like watching it...?

[Slyfeind]

AFAIK the books don't really clarify, except in that it makes you more powerful, at a cost of addiction and eventual subservience to the dark lord. Also you sweat more and lose weight.

Pretty sure only hobbits become invisible? Which seems redundant when they also get given an elven invisibility cloak but hey.

Isildur also used it to turn invisible, as mentioned in Unfinished Tales. (Also depicted in the movie.)

[Samwise]

Invisibility was sort of like a side effect, IIRC.  The wearer of the ring gets dumped into some kind of shadow realm, which renders him invisible to most normal beings, but creatures that are a part of that same realm (like Sauron and his wraiths) will only see him more clearly.

[Ratman_tf]

The one ring gives you +1. Duh.

[Sjofn]

I totally own the D&D movie on DVD. For all the wrong reasons. 

Meaning you actually like watching it...?

I could watch Jeremy Irons shovel scenery into his gaping maw all day. The movie is terrible, which makes it fucking hilarious.

[Sheepherder]

*insert five year old voice* Well first off it as the power of ALL the other rings and if you wear it you can control all the other people who wear the rings and even some that don't! Plus it um, makes you more powerful and enhances any power you already had!

It doesn't have the power of all the rings, it controls the powers of other rings.  That's Sauron's thing: he enslaves, corrupts, and inspires terror in others.  The powers the ring has is a microcosm of that, since it's sort of imbued with a portion of his soul.

You know what the best way to piss off an elf is?  Get root access to their ring of power and turn all their magically sustained trees into shitting dick trees.

[Lakov_Sanite]

You are everything that is wrong with this franchise.

[Sheepherder]

Because I can comprehend English?

[Johny Cee]

All three are nominally the same race of demigods

This i where I start having doubts about ever actually reading the books. I mean some things just start sounding like fanfiction, ok so the one ring is pretty powerful what can it do?

It doesn't matter.  The One Ring is essentially Plato's Ring of Gyges.

    Suppose now that there were two such magic rings, and the just put on one of them and the unjust the other; no man can be imagined to be of such an iron nature that he would stand fast in justice. No man would keep his hands off what was not his own when he could safely take what he liked out of the market, or go into houses and lie with any one at his pleasure, or kill or release from prison whom he would, and in all respects be like a god among men.

    Then the actions of the just would be as the actions of the unjust; they would both come at last to the same point. And this we may truly affirm to be a great proof that a man is just, not willingly or because he thinks that justice is any good to him individually, but of necessity, for wherever any one thinks that he can safely be unjust, there he is unjust.

    For all men believe in their hearts that injustice is far more profitable to the individual than justice, and he who argues as I have been supposing, will say that they are right. If you could imagine any one obtaining this power of becoming invisible, and never doing any wrong or touching what was another's, he would be thought by the lookers-on to be a most wretched idiot, although they would praise him to one another's faces, and keep up appearances with one another from a fear that they too might suffer injustice.

        — Plato's Republic, 360b-d (Jowett trans.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_of_gyges#Influence

[Ironwood]

Plato was full of fucking shite, wasn't he ?

[Samwise]

I was just thinking the same thing.  His friends must have had to count their silverware after having him over for dinner.