Japan [Tag: Fucked]

[kaid]

So a little while back, they dumped a whole slew of radioactive water into the ocean. What does that actually mean for say, the sea life and/or sea food? Japan eats a shit load of seafood if my internet facts are correct.

Probable effect on aquatic life

[Ghambit]

That's actually not far from the truth.   

[Arthur_Parker]

Japan may raise nuke accident severity level to highest 7 from 5

The Nuclear Safety Commission of Japan released a preliminary calculation Monday saying that the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant had been releasing up to 10,000 terabecquerels of radioactive materials per hour at some point after a massive quake and tsunami hit northeastern Japan on March 11.

The disclosure prompted the government to consider raising the accident's severity level to 7, the worst on an international scale, from the current 5, government sources said. The level 7 on the International Nuclear Event Scale has only been applied to the 1986 Chernobyl catastrophe.

The current provisional evaluation of 5 is at the same level as the Three Mile Island accident in the United States in 1979.

According to an evaluation by the INES, level 7 accidents correspond with a release into the external environment radioactive materials equal to more than tens of thousands terabecquerels of radioactive iodine 131. One terabecquerel equals 1 trillion becquerels.

Haruki Madarame, chairman of the commission, which is a government panel, said it has estimated that the release of 10,000 terabecquerels of radioactive materials per hour continued for several hours.

The commission says the release has since come down to under 1 terabecquerel per hour and said that it is still examining the total amount of radioactive materials released.

The commission also released a preliminary calculation for the cumulative amount of external exposure to radiation, saying it exceeded the yearly limit of 1 millisieverts in areas extending more than 60 kilometers to the northwest of the plant and about 40 km to the south-southwest of the plant.

It encompasses the cities of Fukushima, Date, Soma, Minamisoma, and Iwaki, which are all in Fukushima Prefecture, and some areas including the town of Hirono in the prefecture.

Within a 20-km exclusion zone set by the government, the amount varied from under 1 millisieverts to 100 millisieverts or more, and in the 20-30 km radius ring where residents are asked to stay indoors, it came to under 50 millisieverts.

The commission used the System for Prediction of Environmental Emergency Dose Information to calculate the spread of radiation.

[Arthur_Parker]

Japan Orders Nuclear Plant Operators to Obtain More Emergency Generators

The Japanese government, meanwhile, ordered reactor operators on Saturday to bring in additional emergency diesel generators, as the aftershock again demonstrated the potential for such events to shut down portions of the power grid.

The new government order came after problems were reported at two other nuclear power plants, both run by the Tohoku Electric Power Company. The plants suffered temporary losses of cooling to spent fuel pools, electricity cutoffs and problems with backup diesel generators after Thursday’s aftershock.

The Higashidori plant lost all outside power. Although it had three backup diesel generators, two were out of service for periodic maintenance. The remaining one worked for a while, but later, after some outside power was restored, it stopped because some of its oil spilled out.

At the Onagawa plant, three out of four outside power lines went down, but the plant continued to operate on the fourth line. Although diesel backup was not needed, it was discovered that one of the plant’s two diesel generators had been out of order since April 1.

“There was no problem this time,” said Hidehiko Nishiyama, deputy director general of the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, which regulates the atomic energy industry, at a news conference. However, he said, nuclear plant operators will now be required to have more backup diesel generators available and working.

I know things are terrible over there at the moment but  

[Sand]

So a little while back, they dumped a whole slew of radioactive water into the ocean. What does that actually mean for say, the sea life and/or sea food? Japan eats a shit load of seafood if my internet facts are correct.

Yep and while people tend to claim "the solution to pollution is dilution" we have already seen how easily mercury has entered the food system by becoming concentrated the higher up the food chain it moves.
Some of the things that seem to be getting dumped into the surrounding ocean right now stay radioactive far longer than iodine.

[MournelitheCalix]

Now its officially on par with Chernobyl disaster rating wise

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_japan_earthquake


One line that should be chilling from the above article:

He acknowledged that, if leaks continue, the amount of radioactivity released might eventually exceed the amount emitted by Chernobyl.

[MournelitheCalix]

sorry wierd double post.

[Sheepherder]

Yep and while people tend to claim "the solution to pollution is dilution" we have already seen how easily mercury has entered the food system by becoming concentrated the higher up the food chain it moves.
Some of the things that seem to be getting dumped into the surrounding ocean right now stay radioactive far longer than iodine.

Stop being an idiot.

1. The amount they dumped in the water would be trivial in moderately sized freshwater lake.
2. Isotopes of Caesium is the only other significant contaminant.
3. Caesium doesn't bioaccumulate.

[Arthur_Parker]

2. Isotopes of Caesium is the only other significant contaminant.

FYI, they have started test for strontium on the early samples.

Radioactive strontium detected more than 30 km from Fukushima plant

Minute amounts of radioactive strontium have been detected in soil and plants in Fukushima Prefecture beyond the 30-kilometer zone around the crippled Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station, the science ministry said Tuesday.

It is the first time that radioactive strontium has been detected since the Fukushima plant began leaking radioactive substances after it was severely damaged by the March 11 earthquake and tsunami.

There is no safety limit set by the government for exposure to strontium, but the amount found so far is extremely low and does not pose a threat to human health, the Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology said.

Experts, however, expressed concern that the accumulation of strontium could have adverse health effects. When strontium enters the human body, it tends to accumulate in bones and is believed to cause bone cancer and leukemia.

Samples of soil and plants were taken March 16 to 19 from a number of locations in Fukushima Prefecture.

The government has designated the area within a 20-km radius of the plant as an evacuation zone, while people residing in areas in the 20- to 30-km ring have been asked to remain indoors. On Monday, the government expanded the evacuation zone to some municipalities beyond the 20-km radius where residents will evacuate in around a month.

[Jeff Kelly]

3. Caesium doesn't bioaccumulate.

2. Radiocaesium does not accumulate in the body as effectively as many other fission products (such as radioiodine and radiostrontium). As with other alkali metals, radiocaesium washes out of the body relatively quickly in sweat and urine. However, radiocaesium follows potassium and tends to accumulate in plant tissues, including fruits and vegetables. (en.wikipedia.org)

Plant material that is then ingested by animals or humans. We're still able to find wild boar with 40,000 Bq of radiocesium per kg in Central Europe. As far as aquatic life is concerned Cs137 accumulates in algae and seaweed which is a food source for the Japanese and certain types of fish.

It's not exactly harmless either if you consider that only 2 out of 10 wild animals in Central Europe are below the 600 Bq per kg threshold and most mushrooms and other types of food are also above the threshold.

[Fordel]

I have no idea what any of those numbers actually mean.


Do 40,000 Bq (whatever a Bq is ) mean you get sick? Grow a third arm? Die horribly? Deadly as a banana?

[Ingmar]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Becquerel

[ghost]

Has there ever been a situation where this much radioactive material has been dumped in the ocean?

[Ingmar]

Has there ever been a situation where this much radioactive material has been dumped in the ocean?

Maybe?



I don't really have a good grasp on the relative magnitudes of the nuclear testing done in the 50s vs. this.

[ghost]

I would be interested to know if the two situations have much in the way of parallels.  I thought that a nuclear bomb was quite a bit different in nature, but don't profess to know much about the subject.  

[Sheepherder]

Do 40,000 Bq (whatever a Bq is ) mean you get sick? Grow a third arm? Die horribly? Deadly as a banana?

2667 bananas.

[Jeff Kelly]

40,000 Becquerel of radiocaesium is about .5 mSievert. So by eating one kilgram of food with that level of caesium 137 you're exposed to about the same amount of radiation as from one year of natural background.

Which by itself isn't that much but you usually eat a lot more than just 1 kg of food per year so depending on how much the food is contaminated and how many types of plant life or animal life are contaminated this might be an issue.

Caesium accumulates mostly in plants (with mushrooms having the highest contamination) because it's absorbed and treated as if it was potassium. Those plants then get eaten by wild animals or humans.

Strontium (the body treats it like Calcium and integrates it into bone matter) or Iodine (accumulates in the thyroid gland) are more dangerous however.

The problem with Caesium is also that while it is less dangerous for adult humans it can bioaccumulate in embryos (this is due to Caesium 137 being transported in the bloodstream, that's why it's usually excreted with urine or sweat).

e.g. trisomy 21 incidence rates all over europe (thoroughly documented in southern germany that got a lot of exposure due to fallout) rose after chernobyl. This is likely attributed to the radiation exposure from ingestion of contaminated food.

[slog]

Do 40,000 Bq (whatever a Bq is ) mean you get sick? Grow a third arm? Die horribly? Deadly as a banana?

2667 bananas.

I would die horribly sitting on the toilet after eating 2667 bananas.  Radioactive Poopie is unfair to some.

[Sheepherder]

Which by itself isn't that much but you usually eat a lot more than just 1 kg of food per year so depending on how much the food is contaminated and how many types of plant life or animal life are contaminated this might be an issue.

I rarely eat more than a kilogram of seaweed annually though.

[Arthur_Parker]

I would be interested to know if the two situations have much in the way of parallels.  I thought that a nuclear bomb was quite a bit different in nature, but don't profess to know much about the subject.  

Castle Bravo Nuclear Test

Castle Bravo was the most powerful nuclear device ever detonated by the United States, with a yield of 15 megatons. That yield, far exceeding the expected yield of 4 to 6 megatons, combined with other factors, led to the most significant accidental radiological contamination ever caused by the United States. Fallout from the detonation — intended to be a secret test — poisoned the (Marshall) islanders who had previously inhabited the atoll and returned there afterwards, as well as the crew of Daigo Fukuryū Maru ("Lucky Dragon No. 5"), a Japanese fishing boat, and created international concern about atmospheric thermonuclear testing

A Comparative Study on 137 Cs Transfer From Soil to Vegetation in the Marshall Islands

The total 137Cs deposit on Bikini Island (Bikini Atoll) is about 80 kBq m2. This compares with an estimated 137Cs global fallout deposit in the Marshall Islands of around 0.4-0.6 kBq m2 (Simon 1997). We attribute much of the excess deposit as being directly attributable to close-in fallout from BRAVO.

newscientist

People living within 30 kilometres of the plant have evacuated or been advised to stay indoors. Since 18 March, MEXT has repeatedly found caesium levels above 550 kBq/m2 in an area some 45 kilometres wide lying 30 to 50 kilometres north-west of the plant. The highest was 6400 kBq/m2, about 35 kilometres away, while caesium reached 1816 kBq/m2 in Nihonmatsu City and 1752 kBq/m2 in the town of Kawamata, where iodine-131 levels of up to 12,560 kBq/m2 have also been measured.

Marshall Islands Nuclear Claims Tribunal Act 1987

That's the best comparison I came up with, Jeff can you check I haven't got something basic wrong with the figures?

[ghost]

Thanks Arthur.  That is informative. 

[Jeff Kelly]

I rarely eat more than a kilogram of seaweed annually though.

You personally might not. Some fish you like to eat might, though and many people in Japan definitely eat a lot of algae and seaweed.

[Sheepherder]

So, humans excrete Caesium, but fish don't?

[Arthur_Parker]

So, humans excrete Caesium, but fish don't?

Can you make whatever point you have a little clearer?

Bioaccumulation of 137Cs in pelagic food webs in the Norwegian and Barents Seas

Knowledge and documentation of the levels of radioactive contamination in fish stocks important to Norwegian fisheries is of major importance to Norwegian consumers and fish export industry. In the present study, the bioaccumulation of caesium-137 ((137)Cs) has been investigated in marine food webs in the Barents and Norwegian Seas. The contents of (137)Cs in the different organisms were generally low (<1 Bq kg(-1) wet weight), but a marked bioaccumulation was apparent: The concentration of (137)Cs was about 10-fold higher in the harbour porpoise Phocoena phocoena, representing the upper level of the food web, than in the amphipod Themisto sp., representing the lower level of the food web. The Concentration Factors (CF=Bq kg(-1) wet weight/Bq l(-1) seawater) increased from 10+/-3 for a mixed sample of krill and amphipods to 165+/-5 for harbour porpoises.

Radionuclides in seals and porpoises in the coastal waters around the UK

The levels of radiocaesium in muscle were higher than those in liver, while there appeared to be a concentration factor of approximately 3–4 for muscle radiocaesium when compared to radiocaesium levels reported for fish, the main food source of the marine mammals under study.

http://www.epa.gov/rpdweb00/radionuclides/cesium.html

People may ingest cesium-137 with food and water, or may inhale it as dust. If cesium-137 enters the body, it is distributed fairly uniformly throughout the body's soft tissues, resulting in exposure of those tissues. Slightly higher concentrations of the metal are found in muscle, while slightly lower concentrations are found in bone and fat. Compared to some other radionuclides, cesium-137 remains in the body for a relatively short time. It is eliminated through the urine. Exposure to cesium-137 may also be external (that is, exposure to its gamma radiation from outside the body)

April 7th Press briefing

caesium-137 is shown to the right. It has a biological half-life of about 50 days. Biological half-life means after it goes into the biological organism, it takes 50 days to be reduced to half the level. After 50 days, the cesium that is taken in by an organism would be excreted.

[Sheepherder]

Can you make whatever point you have a little clearer?

It isn't mercury.  The levels in the ocean will dilute fast assuming they don't decide to dump more in, and after that the rest will be excreted by fish.  Seaweed has deep root systems, and topsoil is quickly eroded and washed away underwater, so plant absorption of Caesium will be significantly less than the mushrooms and shit that still apparently irradiates Ukrainians too simple to understand "don't eat the mushrooms."

Given that the point of dumping it was to clear room for waste of significantly greater radioactivity, and to facilitate the continued cooling of fuel cladding, this was the responsible option.

[Sand]

Yep and while people tend to claim "the solution to pollution is dilution" we have already seen how easily mercury has entered the food system by becoming concentrated the higher up the food chain it moves.
Some of the things that seem to be getting dumped into the surrounding ocean right now stay radioactive far longer than iodine.

Stop being an idiot.

1. The amount they dumped in the water would be trivial in moderately sized freshwater lake.
2. Isotopes of Caesium is the only other significant contaminant.
3. Caesium doesn't bioaccumulate.

1. They said the samething about agricultural run off (see- dead zone Gulf of Mexico) and mercury and every other thing they have dumped into our water.
2. Wrong.
3. Wrong again.

Given that the point of dumping it was to clear room for waste of significantly greater radioactivity, and to facilitate the continued cooling of fuel cladding, this was the responsible option.

Given that EVERY DAY we get a new more shocking update into the extent of the damage and how much radioactivity is being released, your continued faith in how little damage to the environment is going to happen is a bit idiosyncratic.

[Sheepherder]

2. Isotopes of Caesium is the only other significant contaminant.
3. Caesium doesn't bioaccumulate.

2. Wrong.
3. Wrong again.

2. Okay.
3. Being able to piss out 10% of the isotope in two days is a very tenuous definition of bio accumulation.

Given that EVERY DAY we get a new more shocking update into the extent of the damage and how much radioactivity is being released, your continued faith in how little damage to the environment is going to happen is a bit idiosyncratic.

Given that every few days we get another shocking update from you about how terrible this is that they purposefully dumped radioactive waste in the sea and how they totally should have not done that despite the fact that plan B was to watch the fuel cladding burn I've got a lot of faith in my decision to mostly ignore your shocking revelations about it.

Plus there were the repeated attempts by the USA, Russia, and France to wage war on Poseidon.  Those have somewhat strengthened my convictions that the sea just does not give a fuck.

[Arthur_Parker]

Can you make whatever point you have a little clearer?

It isn't mercury.  

You got all that from here?

http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/04/01/fukushima-daiichi-april-1/

The I-131 has a short half life, and the longer-lived Cs-137 does not bioaccumulate like mercury (for instance).

[Arthur_Parker]

Update from Dr. Saji- former Secretariat of Japan's Nuclear Safety Commission 9 April 2011

The estimated concentration of Sr-89 and 90 are supplemented in the above table, by scaling from the Cs-137 concentration, since no values have been reported from TEPCO. Considering the beta-ray burn incident of the three electricians irradiated in the skin of their feet, it is obvious that these radioactive species should be included in the contaminated water. It is likely the radiation injury was though Sr-89, considering its high concentrations.
...
It is very strange that the radiation concentration data by TEPCO continue to ignore presence of Sr-89 and Sr-90 in spite of the beta-burn radiation injuries affected by three workers. The strontium isotopes are particularly important in an event of discharges of contaminated water to the sea, since there is a concern of food chain through fish, concentrated in the fish bone, together with calcium.

Media doesn't seem to have caught on yet.

Edit to add, did find this from nearly 2 weeks ago.

Japan's 'radioactive particles' in Moscow

RADIOACTIVITY from Japan's damaged nuclear reactor has been detected in the atmosphere around the Russian capital Moscow, officials from the municipal facility treating nuclear waste said today.

Radon, a company set up in Moscow to monitor radioactivity and dispose of radioactive waste in central Russia, has been detecting traces of iodine and strontium isotopes since last week, deputy director Oleg Polsky said.

The minuscule amounts were possible to detect only via the company's powerful filtering systems and don't pose any health risks, he said.

"Starting March 23rd, we began registering activity, whose make-up corresponds to that which comes from accident situations on nuclear reactors," the company's Sergei Gordeyev said.

Detected isotopes include radioactive Iodine-131 in aerosol and gas form, cesium-134 and cesium-137, and tellurium-132, he said at a press conference in Moscow.

"The isotopes confirm that it's a process connected with the accident," said Polsky, "but these traces are not dangerous for people."

[Sand]

 Those have somewhat strengthened my convictions that the sea just does not give a fuck.

Some things we have done to the sea.

What is the Gulf of Mexico Dead Zone?
The Gulf of Mexico dead zone is an area of hypoxic (link to USGS definition) (less than 2 ppm dissolved oxygen) waters at the mouth of the Mississippi River. Its area varies in size, but can cover up to 6,000-7,000 square miles. The zone occurs between the inner and mid-continental shelf in the northern Gulf of Mexico, beginning at the Mississippi River delta and extending westward to the upper Texas coast.

What Causes the Dead Zone?
The dead zone is caused by nutrient enrichment from the Mississippi River, particularly nitrogen and phosphorous. Watersheds within the Mississippi River Basin drain much of the United States, from Montana to Pennsylvania and extending southward along the Mississippi River. Most of the nitrogen input comes from major farming states in the Mississippi River Valley, including Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois, Wisconsin, Missouri, Tennessee, Arkansas, Mississippi, and Louisiana. Nitrogen and phosphorous enter the river through upstream runoff of fertilizers, soil erosion, animal wastes, and sewage. In a natural system, these nutrients aren't significant factors in algae growth because they are depleted in the soil by plants. However, with anthropogenically increased nitrogen and phosphorus input, algae growth is no longer limited. Consequently, algal blooms develop, the food chain is altered, and dissolved oxygen in the area is depleted. The size of the dead zone fluctuates seasonally, as it is exacerbated by farming practices. It is also affected by weather events such as flooding ( This site may be offline. ) and hurricanes.

http://serc.carleton.edu/microbelife/topics/deadzone/

Huge island of rubbish floating off California
Oceanographers have found that a vast floating island of rubbish in the Pacific has doubled over a decade and is now nearly six times the size of Britain.

The giant waste collection, known as the “Great Pacific Garbage Patch,” lies between California and Hawaii and has been gradually growing for 60 years. It contains everything from plastic bags to shampoo bottles, flip-flops, children’s toys, tyres, drink cans, Frisbees and plastic swimming pools. Older debris has slowly broken down under the sun’s rays into small particles, which settle and are suspended just below the ocean surface.

The soupy water is heavy with toxic chemicals and the broken-down plastic particles are now turning up inside fish. Up to 26 pieces of plastic were recently found inside a single fish and researchers have warned that the chemicals will work their way into the human food chain.

Beginning 500 miles off the Californian coast, the affected area, also known as the “plastic vortex”, now constitutes the world’s largest heap of rubbish.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/7393412/Huge-island-of-rubbish-floating-off-California.html



BP Oil Spill






But please enlighten us as to how we can continue to dump chemicals and radioactive waste into this biosphere with out harming it. Im sure you will enlighten us shortly.

Edit-And as others have already pointed out to you they have been detecting other radioactive agents, but I guess you are ignoring those news reports.
Also bioaccumulation doesnt JUST mean in humans. It means in ANY living organism, as has been previously pointed out to you in this very thread. Ignoring other people's posts and proclaiming yourself right doesnt make it anymore true.

[Sheepherder]

You got all that from here?

http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/04/01/fukushima-daiichi-april-1/

No, actually.

Update from Dr. Saji- former Secretariat of Japan's Nuclear Safety Commission 9 April 2011

The estimated concentration of Sr-89 and 90 are supplemented in the above table, by scaling from the Cs-137 concentration, since no values have been reported from TEPCO. Considering the beta-ray burn incident of the three electricians irradiated in the skin of their feet, it is obvious that these radioactive species should be included in the contaminated water. It is likely the radiation injury was though Sr-89, considering its high concentrations.
...
It is very strange that the radiation concentration data by TEPCO continue to ignore presence of Sr-89 and Sr-90 in spite of the beta-burn radiation injuries affected by three workers. The strontium isotopes are particularly important in an event of discharges of contaminated water to the sea, since there is a concern of food chain through fish, concentrated in the fish bone, together with calcium.

Media doesn't seem to have caught on yet.

Beta decay clearly indicates the presence of Strontium, unless there also happens to be 99Tc, 126Sn, 79Se, 135Cs, 129I, 155Eu, 85Kr, 113mCd, 137Cs, 121mSn, or 151Sm present.  But at least we can be reasonably sure that it was Strontium based on the depth of beta burns, as long as his exposure occurred while he was running naked through the nuclear waste.

EDIT: Wikipedia explains.  Don't take it personally, just the certainty of that conclusion is hilarious.

Detected isotopes include radioactive Iodine-131 in aerosol and gas form, cesium-134 and cesium-137, and tellurium-132, he said at a press conference in Moscow.

The last one is a bit interesting, as it has a half-life of 6 hours.

Also bioaccumulation doesnt JUST mean in humans.

So, humans excrete Caesium, but fish don't?

[Arthur_Parker]

Don't take it personally, just the certainty of that conclusion is hilarious.

Detected isotopes include radioactive Iodine-131 in aerosol and gas form, cesium-134 and cesium-137, and tellurium-132, he said at a press conference in Moscow.

The last one is a bit interesting, as it has a half-life of 6 hours.

Genn Saji Secretariate of Nuclear Safety Commission, Cabinet Office, Joint Central Government Office

tellurium 132

half-life 76.89 hours

Never go full expert.

Edit, Genn Saji

An adhoc group, including myself, is currently making a more detailed ingredient information of the highly contaminated water found in the basement of turbine halls.

[Morfiend]

Never go full expert.

 

[Sheepherder]

Hmm, I was thinking of Technetium-99, my mistake.

[Jeff Kelly]

Never go full expert.

That was a most unexpected laugh-out-loud moment. It's awesome mixed with a bit of "I seriously wish I'd though of that" envy. Exactly how it should be.