Japan [Tag: Fucked]

[Tale]

strengthened my convictions that the sea just does not give a fuck.

No, it's just that the world is bigger than you comprehend. Especially if you're American.

[Sheepherder]

I'm pretty sure I'm the one taking the "It's big, I mean, really big.  You're probably not going to hurt it." argument here.

[Fordel]

I assume there are still rolling blackouts in Japan? Or have they figured out some kind of solution already?

[Tale]

I'm pretty sure I'm the one taking the "It's big, I mean, really big.  You're probably not going to hurt it." argument here.

It can be hurt. It is being hurt (see the growing plastic continent). I meant you're deducing "sea does not give a fuck" from "sea still exists". It's just that it's unimaginably big. It's analogous to looking at a huge forest that's being unsustainably logged and telling us "it's still a forest". At some point the logging has to stop for it to remain a forest. At some point we have to change what we are doing to the oceans or we will eventually fuck them.

[Arthur_Parker]

I assume there are still rolling blackouts in Japan? Or have they figured out some kind of solution already?

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/index-e.html

I would like to extend my sincerest condolences and prayers for the precious loss of life due to the devastating Tohoku-Chihou-Taiheiyo-Oki Earthquake that struck our nation on March 11. Our deepest sorrows go to those people and their families who are suffering from the damage.

Furthermore, I deeply apologize for the distress caused due to the extensive damage that Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station sustained resulting in the leakage of radioactive materials to the surrounding areas of the power station, Fukushima Prefecture, and broader society. Currently, we are working around the clock to bring the situation under control with support and cooperation from the society, related ministries and government offices and local governments.

We also regret the tremendous inconvenience the recent rolling blackouts have caused to our customers and society since March 14th due to the tight supply-demand balance of electricity.

As a result of widespread cooperation from our customers in conserving electricity, the supply-demand balance has improved significantly. Hence, in principle, we have decided to cease the implementation of rolling blackouts and will do our best to maintain the supply of electricity aiming to achieve "Zero Rolling Blackouts" in principle during the summertime. Your continuous cooperation in saving electricity would be highly appreciated.

April 2011
The Tokyo Electric Power Company, Incorporated
Masataka Shimizu
President

Going to be disrupted for a while yet.

[Fordel]

That's something I am really interested in seeing how they address long term. Like, no matter what solution they go with, it will potentially take years to implement.

[Sheepherder]

At some point we have to change what we are doing to the oceans or we will eventually fuck them.

Well yeah.  But that's the part where "one time release of radioactive water into the sea to prevent weeks of more radioactive drainage or decades of more radioactive runoff than currently is in the cards" comes into play.

[Ingmar]

Just found out that some of our products are affected by the whole earthquake thing - even though we don't do any manufacturing in Japan we (but actually mostly some other companies who build stuff incorporating our technology) source some chips from Toshiba who have shut down for the forseeable future the plant that makes them. Kind of makes me wonder how many things like that are still making their way down the supply chain for other companies. We have a transition plan in place for our customers but obviously it is still going to be disruptive - I could easily see it causing bigger problems for other companies.

[Arthur_Parker]

Groundwater radiation level at nuke plant rises: TEPCO

TEPCO pumped out around 660 tons of highly radioactive water Tuesday and Wednesday from one of the trenches to a ''condenser'' inside the nearby No. 2 reactor turbine building, where during normal operation steam from the reactor is converted into water.

But the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said the water level in the vertical part of the trench as of 11 a.m. Thursday had increased by about 4.5 centimeters from the level observed at 6 p.m. Wednesday.

The level of the water is now only 1.5 centimeters lower than shortly before the water-transfer mission started at 7:35 p.m. Tuesday.

Hidehiko Nishiyama, the agency's spokesman, told a press conference Thursday morning that the rise in the water level is likely linked to the continued injection of water into the No. 2 reactor core, which is necessary to prevent the nuclear fuel inside from overheating.

''As there is believed to be around 20,000 tons of water (in the No. 2 reactor turbine building and the trench connected to it), we're feeling the difficulty of lowering the level of the water in a stable manner,'' he said.

[Arthur_Parker]

Somebody has put a lot of work into gathering pictures related to what's going on.

http://www.houseoffoust.com/fukushima/rods.html

His analysis of what the site pictures mean is likely complete bollocks, but nice pictures.

[Sheepherder]

His analysis on the page you linked is certainly complete bollocks.  The Zirconium used as the primary metal in Zircalloy fuel cladding oxidizes to a white colour.

His page full of "hot spots" is pretty good as well.  I'm not certain here, but I'm pretty sure that fuel rods are supposed to be hot enough to boil water.

[MahrinSkel]

They're frigging I-beams, not sure if they're rusty or that's just the color of the primer (probably primer).  Definitely not fuel rods.

--Dave

[Kail]

They're frigging I-beams

GASP!
*rushes to news desk*
-This just in!  Japanese fuel rods emitting deadly "I-Beams," thousands of times more deadly than gamma rays!  Experts estimate that repeated contact with these strange and deadly beams may cause severe health problems including discoloration of skin, lesions, loss of consciousness and, eventually, death!

[Sheepherder]

They're frigging I-beams, not sure if they're rusty or that's just the color of the primer (probably primer).  Definitely not fuel rods.

--Dave

What if they're not?  What if they're channel iron?  Have you even considered the possibility?

[Arthur_Parker]

His analysis on the page you linked is certainly complete bollocks.

I shouldn't have to be this careful when I'm posting stuff, you aren't four.  I linked it for the pretty pictures.

I'm terribly sorry if me saying something is "likely complete bollocks" is not an extreme enough position.  To be honest, it looked like bollocks to me so I didn't read it, I'm glad you spent the time reading all that just to be in the position to state categorically it was complete bollocks.

[Sheepherder]

Bit touchy?

Your initial impression did not lead you astray, though in skipping the reading you missed a good belly laugh or two.

EDIT: Mahrin, it could be rust.  Depends on what exactly happened during the explosion/fire/firefighting.  Steel does not hold up well in a fire, worse than wood, in fact.

[MahrinSkel]

Yeah, that's why I said "probably", it seems too uniform for rust but it's hard to tell at those resolutions.  Fire, explosions, and sea water could easily make it rust quickly and comparatively uniformly, though.

Not fuel rods, definitely (which would be white or gray and nearly impossible to pick out against the rubble).

--Dave

[Tale]

They don't even look like the fuel rods pictured. They're too big and the wrong shape.

[Count Nerfedalot]

Yeah, fuel rods are nowhere near 1 foot across, twice the length of a car, or square.  There was a lot of random smaller grey poles and pipes and whatnot scattered around some of those pictures which would be more what an ejected fuel rod looked like, assuming it was actually not compromised and yet somehow miraculously managed not to be deformed or shattered by the explosion that ejected it (or the subsequent impact) from its below-grade pool which would only happen if quite a few of its neighbors WERE compromised in the first place.  Any visible dispersed radioactive material resulting from an explosion in the spent fuel storage tank would most likely be smallish pieces of cladding and whole or parts of fuel pellets.  NOT intact but uniformly discolored giant rods. 

[Arthur_Parker]

Bit touchy?

Yes, I clearly have a problem.

[Ubvman]

Japan nuke plants ordered to beef up readiness.

Usually, this would be a case of closing the barn doors after all the horses have bolted; but the alarming manner in the way the operators of the other reactors in Japan are handling the after-shocks make this an urgent necessity.

[Sand]

TOKYO — Levels of radioactivity have risen sharply in seawater near a tsunami-crippled nuclear plant in northern Japan, signaling the possibility of new leaks at the facility, the government said Saturday.

The announcement came after a magnitude-5.9 earthquake jolted Japan on Saturday morning, hours after the country's nuclear safety agency ordered plant operators to beef up their quake preparedness systems to prevent a recurrence of the nuclear crisis.

But the government said Saturday that radioactivity in the seawater has risen again in recent days. The level of radioactive iodine-131 spiked to 6,500 times the legal limit, according to samples taken Friday, up from 1,100 times the limit in samples taken the day before. Levels of cesium-134 and cesium-137 rose nearly fourfold. The increased levels are still far below those recorded earlier this month before the initial leak was plugged.

And there are leaks of secret talks within the Japanese government to take over and dissolve TEPCO.

[Sheepherder]

They might not want to do that, because then the government is probably legally responsible for the mess.

[Morat20]

They might not want to do that, because then the government is probably legally responsible for the mess.

You're under the weird-ass impression that anyone other than the government can afford to clean it up.

There's a reason you can't get insurance on those damn things.

Since Japan is already going to pay for the cleanup, there's no real downside to taking over. TEPCO's a zombie company anyways. It's just when they finally announce bankruptcy and get sold for pennies on the dollars, with the liability for the cleanup left to the only people that can afford it.

[Ghambit]

I swear if TEPCO stays alive and goes to a penny stock, I'm buyin in. 

[Sheepherder]

Since Japan is already going to pay for the cleanup, there's no real downside to taking over.

Yes, there is.  You can still sue a nationalized company.

[Furiously]

I swear if TEPCO stays alive and goes to a penny stock, I'm buyin in. 

Why not just sell it short right now?

[Tale]

Full version of "that new video from the hill" - starts with a full town, ends in hell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vZR0Rq1Rfw

[Ghambit]

Is there anything that would cause the spent fuel pool temps to rise regardless of water injection?
Also, what happens if radiative water is used to cool the pools?

[Morat20]

Is there anything that would cause the spent fuel pool temps to rise regardless of water injection?

Besides all the fuel rods?

Also, what happens if radiative water is used to cool the pools?

Water isn't radioactive. Contaminants IN water are. (Like salt, for instance). It'd probably cool it  less effectively, but that's just a WAG.

[Sheepherder]

Is there anything that would cause the spent fuel pool temps to rise regardless of water injection?

Increasing air temperatures, increasing water source temperatures, increasing pump temperatures, higher friction in fittings and hoses due to wear, insufficient water supply meaning the temperature in the pool is not stable.

[MournelitheCalix]

Not sure if anyone else saw this but there is an article in TIME about a journalist who went through the country side up into the caution zone with a Geiger counter.  It is a pretty interesting read.

http://ecocentric.blogs.time.com/2011/04/25/on-the-road-with-a-geiger-counter-in-japan/?xid=rss-topstories

[KallDrexx]

Workers are now entering the reactor buildings and performing work in 10 minute max shifts to install ventillation systems and soon cooling systems.

[Strazos]

What's the "cooldown" on the workers before they can re-enter? Are they getting a year's worth of rads in a single exposure.

[Minvaren]

Reactor #1 did melt down

Engineers from the Tokyo Electric Power company (Tepco) entered the No.1 reactor at the end of last week for the first time and saw the top five feet or so of the core's 13ft-long fuel rods had been exposed to the air and melted down.

Previously, Tepco believed that the core of the reactor was submerged in enough water to keep it stable and that only 55 per cent of the core had been damaged.

Can't wait to see the fallout (rim shot) from this discovery...