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MournelitheCalix
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Reply #910 on: March 29, 2011, 12:03:51 PM

This is interesting: two Japanese tourists in Shanghai have been hospitalized with radiation poisoning. The AP story just says they weren't from close to the plant; another story has them being from 350km away. http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/china-reports-radiation-on-2-japanese-tourists

My physicist colleagues say that the zirconium-95 in the seawater story is really bad news as far as the magnitude of the damage to the facility and the possible problems to follow.

So much for those early articles about people coming from japan setting off radiation alarms being simple "scare articles."  I wonder what a certain MIT professor has to say right now.

Also in the Chernobyl incident part of the reason the soviets handled the immediate area around the reactor in the manner in which they did was that they wanted to keep the rest of the reactors around the melted down one online and cranking out power.  In fact I think I read that the sister reactors were decomissioned in the year 2000.  This is not the case with the Japanese reactors.  Numerous news agencies have stated that TEPCO wrote off the reactors the moment they added sea water to the reactors.  I believe the reason is that the chloride ions will cause corrosion in the piping.  

Has anyone heard of what the status on the refinery fire was?  I haven't heard anything reported in the MSM concerning it since the 14th.

Born too late to explore the new world.
Born too early to explore the universe.
Born just in time to see liberty die.
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #911 on: March 29, 2011, 12:08:32 PM

Has anyone heard of what the status on the refinery fire was?  I haven't heard anything reported in the MSM concerning it since the 14th.

25th March

http://www.icis.com/Articles/2011/03/25/9447038/japan-disaster-refiners-up-operating-rates-to-ease-shortages.html

Quote
However, Cosmo Oil says it has extinguished the fire at its Chiba refinery that was due to an explosion at the facility’s liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) tanks after the earthquake struck northeastern Japan.
Sand
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Reply #912 on: March 29, 2011, 12:18:21 PM



Insider info.:  I anticipate some big-time private contracting starting up to deal with the cleanup of this mess; this is some very specialized shit.  That's all I can say about that for now.  If you're curious you can PM me.


http://www.tetratech.com/us/solutions-and-services/
Jeff Kelly
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I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.


Reply #913 on: March 29, 2011, 12:48:56 PM

Wouldn't this mean that the Chernobyl incident was much, much worse than even we estimated? 

It depends how you define bad, most people will be concerned about the distance that the radioactive material travels, not exactly how bad it is close to the site.  Here's how the soviets managed the stuff near the plant.
[/quote]

It depends. It would be worse than the assumptions and projections made but less bad than the material being spread  over a few square kilometers. YOu'd have to up the projections on people affected by the disaster in the form of cancer for example but blowing it into very high altitudes made it spread over half the globe reducing concentration and radiation exposure per unit of area.

The bigger issue would be that this is an event no nuclear reactor is designed for, if there is some sort of funnel or smokestack effect then nuclear reactors would have to be designed differently than now. For example the lid would have to be much more stable.

The theory of that guy is actively discussed among the russian speaking science community but not in the west because they don't speak russian. Also building a new sarcophagus is  a huge project with a lot of money to be made by the contractors (upwards of twenty billion euro) yet that project would be entirely unnecessary if there is nothing left that needs to be contained.
Simond
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Reply #914 on: March 29, 2011, 12:51:40 PM

Before anyone gives me any crap, I'm just copying/pasting this from the Guardian.

Japan may have lost race to save nuclear reactor
I suspect that this is going to be another one of those articles that 'mysteriously' disappears when it turns out that "Some bloke speculating from half the world away" <> facts. Re-read that article with a sceptical eye, and count the weasel words - "appears", "experts say", "suggested", "seemed", and so on.


This is interesting: two Japanese tourists in Shanghai have been hospitalized with radiation poisoning. The AP story just says they weren't from close to the plant; another story has them being from 350km away. http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/china-reports-radiation-on-2-japanese-tourists

So much for those early articles about people coming from japan setting off radiation alarms being simple "scare articles."  I wonder what a certain MIT professor has to say right now.
He'll probably say "Why are you taking one random article from which is quoting from the Chinese press but has no independent verification as gospel, especially given the Chinese media was just as ridiculously panicky as everyone else?". If this were true, every western media group would be leading with it. Or. to be more accurate, would have been leading with it a couple of days ago, when it was published. C'mon, use a little common sense.

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Arthur_Parker
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Reply #915 on: March 29, 2011, 01:04:49 PM

Before anyone gives me any crap, I'm just copying/pasting this from the Guardian.

Japan may have lost race to save nuclear reactor
I suspect that this is going to be another one of those articles that 'mysteriously' disappears when it turns out that "Some bloke speculating from half the world away" <> facts. Re-read that article with a sceptical eye, and count the weasel words - "appears", "experts say", "suggested", "seemed", and so on.
Facepalm

You know it's bad sign in a thread when most of the people responding to you are clarifying something for you.  If it was anything more than some guy speculating I probably wouldn't have personally disowned the information as I did, that was clue 1.  True the guy speculating does appear qualified to do so, having worked at the plant and been head of safety research for the company that made the reactor, but it was pretty clear he was only speculating from the language he used, that was clue 2.

I have no idea if he's right or not, but I'll take on board your belief that the article is going to disappear.
Ghambit
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Reply #916 on: March 29, 2011, 02:13:30 PM



Insider info.:  I anticipate some big-time private contracting starting up to deal with the cleanup of this mess; this is some very specialized shit.  That's all I can say about that for now.  If you're curious you can PM me.


http://www.tetratech.com/us/solutions-and-services/

Nice guess, but no.  I'm sure there are NDA's and non-competes involved with this stuff so as said, cant be specific on a public forum.  Just know there are mega-billions being thrown around similar to the BP fiasco that many contractors are chomping at the bit to take a chunk out of.  Japan, for all of its tech, simply doesnt have what's needed for the job necessary to solve the Fukushima problem, so it's being contracted out.  This is before even considering cleanup of the larger disaster.

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Tale
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Reply #917 on: March 29, 2011, 02:54:00 PM

Before anyone gives me any crap, I'm just copying/pasting this from the Guardian.

Japan may have lost race to save nuclear reactor
I suspect that this is going to be another one of those articles that 'mysteriously' disappears when it turns out that "Some bloke speculating from half the world away" <> facts. Re-read that article with a sceptical eye, and count the weasel words - "appears", "experts say", "suggested", "seemed", and so on.

Simond you have gone full retard with a tinfoil hat. Adopting poisonous US right-wing terms like "weasel words" and suggesting that articles mysteriously disappear when they're wrong.

It's a perfectly acceptable piece, reporting speculation by experts. And what happens, FYI, is that online news usually expires from websites for legal reasons. It's sensible not to hold an extensive archive (at least on the mainstream media sites I've worked on) because things change context and people sue each other for things they said, so if you just have a general rule that you don't hold anything permanently, their lawyers can't go "aha, you're STILL hosting that" and sue harder.

There is not some overarching anti-nuclear conspiracy bugging your internets, there is just poor underpaid online editors getting kicked for making a typo in something they churned through before the meeting about staff cuts.

Edit: I mean, fuck, the story's key paragraph is "Richard Lahey, who was head of safety research for boiling-water reactors at General Electric when the company installed the units at Fukushima, told the Guardian workers at the site appeared to have "lost the race" to save the reactor, but said there was no danger of a Chernobyl-style catastrophe."

You're calling that weasel words? You're lost in pro-nuclear wingnut paranoia.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 03:03:09 PM by Tale »
Sheepherder
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Reply #918 on: March 29, 2011, 03:03:39 PM

Pardon my ignorance but isn't that well above the boiling point of water? Are they literally putting water in in order to have it blast off  int the atmosphere as steam? Of course putting it into a sealed area will raise the Waters boiling point due to pressure, but then you have a chance of a superheated steam explosion...

The liquid does not have to boil to evaporate, for example water is evaporating all the time as long as its in a liquid form. The boiling point is simply the point the whole lot turns to vapour. So you could get plutonium evaporation into the atmosphere even at far lower temperatures, as far as a know.

Boiling point is 100* C, freeing is 0* C at standard pressure.  Evaporation of a steady supply of coolant is the fastest way to cool something.  A steam explosion is only a risk when you cannot control the rate of conversion of water into steam by metering off the water, or when you cannot vent the resultant pressure.  They can do both, and it's possible the latter is happening involuntarily.  A hydrogen explosion resulting from decomposition of water is not likely to happen at 165* C.

If they choose to do so, any vessel or containment they fill with (molten) tin will make the process even easier, as wherever they fill with tin will become an exceptionally good conductor of heat, and the outer surface of the vessel or containment may be sprayed with water to make it an exceptionally efficient heat sink.

The chemical properties of water are very irregular, extrapolating from water to plutonium is kind of a stretch.
Mosesandstick
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Reply #919 on: March 29, 2011, 03:34:02 PM

To explicitly answer Sir T's question, water at higher pressures will boil at higher temperatures.
Fordel
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Reply #920 on: March 29, 2011, 03:39:14 PM

I did not know that they actually dug a tunnel under the reactor. That's... ACK!


There are lots of documentaries about Chernobyl on Google video, if you feel like terrifying yourself with how bad it nearly was.


The reality is the Soviet Union went to WAR with Chernobyl, and spent half a million lives to save half a billion. Literally commandeering anything and everything needed to fight the meltdown, including men. In some fucked up way, it was sorta "good" that this happened in the Soviet Union, since they could do that kind of thing, order entire mining towns on essentially suicide missions. 




and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Khaldun
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Reply #921 on: March 29, 2011, 05:21:26 PM

I knew about a lot of the extreme measures, but I somehow had not heard about the tunnel. Kind of amazing.
Sir T
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Reply #922 on: March 29, 2011, 06:28:33 PM

The chemical properties of water are very irregular, extrapolating from water to plutonium is kind of a stretch.

Yeah, I'll happily admit that it is a stretch, but the article from Arthur_parker was trying to imply there were temperatures as high as 3 and a half thousand degrees in there, and I was trying to give an alternative explanation as to how plutonium gas could be in the atmosphere other than it boiling off at huge temperatures.

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01101010
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Reply #923 on: March 29, 2011, 06:30:42 PM

I knew about a lot of the extreme measures, but I somehow had not heard about the tunnel. Kind of amazing.

Watched that documentary and was a bit dismayed for those miners. They said the radiation in the tunnel was minimal but the heat was intense. Then to make it more fun, once they left the relative safety of the tunnel and the oppressive heat, they walked into the radioactivity. Incredible.

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Fordel
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Reply #924 on: March 29, 2011, 11:30:14 PM

I think it's the divers who went in to drain the water before the meltdown could reach it, that was the biggest "wow, holy shit, I don't know if I could do that".


Literal, 100% suicide mission. Like even the Soviet's didn't bullshit to these divers, like they did with everyone else, there was no "oh it's only blah blah amount of radiation, you'll be fine if you wear your mask!" or whatever. It was just, we need you to go in there and open the valves or half of Europe will be a wasteland... you WILL die doing this, there will be nothing we can do for you.



Somehow the enormous balls on these men didn't weigh them down in the water and they were able to open the valves, and save everyone.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #925 on: March 30, 2011, 12:48:53 AM

Radioactive iodine 3,355 times legal limit found in seawater
Quote
Radioactive iodine-131 at a concentration of 3,355 times the maximum allowable level under the law was detected in a seawater sample taken Tuesday afternoon near the crisis-hit Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, the government's nuclear agency said Wednesday.

The highest concentration observed so far in seawater from the troubled power station suggests radiation originating from reactor cores, where fuel rods have partially melted, may have been continuously leaking into the Pacific Ocean.

Hidehiko Nishiyama, a spokesman for the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, said the exact cause of the high iodine concentration remains unknown but that data taken by the plant operator Tokyo Electric Power Co. indicate radiation that has leaked at the site during the ongoing crisis ''somehow'' flowed into the sea.

He reiterated that the polluted seawater will not pose immediate health risks because fishing would not be conducted in the evacuation-designated area within 20 kilometers of the plant and radiation-emitting substances would be ''significantly diluted'' by the time they are consumed by marine species and then by people.

Gov't mulling new steps to bring Fukushima nuke plant under control
Quote
The government is considering applying new measures to prevent the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant from further spreading radioactive particles, its top spokesman said Wednesday.

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano told a news conference that the government and nuclear experts are discussing ''every possibility'' to bring the plant under control and that some measures that have been reported by the media are included in their options.

Media reports said that the government and the experts have been studying the feasibility of new steps such as covering reactors of the plant with special cloth to reduce the amount of radioactive particles flying away from the facility and using a big tanker to collect the contaminated water.
Sheepherder
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Reply #926 on: March 30, 2011, 01:33:43 AM

Somehow the enormous balls on these men didn't weigh them down in the water and they were able to open the valves, and save everyone.

Up until the late 90's the Russian Navy was still using these:


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Arthur_Parker
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Reply #927 on: March 30, 2011, 01:41:37 AM

Caesium fallout from Fukushima rivals Chernobyl
Quote
An analysis of MEXT's data by New Scientist shows just how elevated the levels are. After the 1986 Chernobyl accident, the most highly contaminated areas were defined as those with over 1490 kilobecquerels (kBq) of caesium per square metre. Produce from soil with 550 kBq/m2 was destroyed.

People living within 30 kilometres of the plant have evacuated or been advised to stay indoors. Since 18 March, MEXT has repeatedly found caesium levels above 550 kBq/m2 in an area some 45 kilometres wide lying 30 to 50 kilometres north-west of the plant. The highest was 6400 kBq/m2, about 35 kilometres away, while caesium reached 1816 kBq/m2 in Nihonmatsu City and 1752 kBq/m2 in the town of Kawamata, where iodine-131 levels of up to 12,560 kBq/m2 have also been measured. "Some of the numbers are really high," says Gerhard Proehl, head of assessment and management of environmental releases of radiation at the International Atomic Energy Agency.

New Scientist report on this area to the north west that they really should have evacuated people from already.
penfold
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Reply #928 on: March 30, 2011, 04:02:08 AM

Japan to scrap all four reactors

I guess this wasn't officially announced until now because my first reaction was "no shit sherlock". Are they doing anything about this fallout mentioned in Arthurs post? I really wonder for the safety of those inside the zone. I believe even the Soviets had fully evacuated by now.
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #929 on: March 30, 2011, 04:13:45 AM

The area mentioned by the New Scientist is outside the evacuation zone to the north west, it's pretty clear that the reason to evacuate is to protect public health, as such the current zone limits aren't right.

There are people still inside the zone too according to reports, but nowhere inside, except maybe very close to the plant, is as contaminated as that area to the northwest.

« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 04:20:45 AM by Arthur_Parker »
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #930 on: March 30, 2011, 04:20:21 AM

Smoke briefly detected at Fukushima Daini nuclear power plant

Quote
Smoke was temporarily seen at the No. 1 reactor of the Fukushima Daini nuclear power plant, but it soon disappeared, its operator said Wednesday.

Tokyo Electric Power Co. said smoke was detected at around 5:56 p.m. from a power distribution panel on the first floor of the turbine building at the reactor. The company, known as TEPCO, said it made a call to a local fire department.

The announcement came at a time when efforts are under way to contain the nuclear crisis at the radiation-leaking Fukushima Daiichi nuclear complex, hit by the devastating March 11 earthquake and ensuing tsunami.

The Fukushima Daini plant is located about 10 kilometers from the crippled Fukushima Daiichi plant, and its four reactors have been stable in so-called ''cold shutdown'' after suspending operations following the quake.

That's the other plant up the road with 4 reactors.
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #931 on: March 30, 2011, 05:12:36 AM

I did not know that they actually dug a tunnel under the reactor. That's... ACK!

Yeah, but what got me was later on in those videos they spray a tar like liquid from helicopters to stick the dust down, then turned all the earth over and buried everything, anything they really didn't like, they buried and then poured concrete over, all done by hand.

Gov't to spray resin over debris at Fukushima plant
Quote
The government plans to spray a water-soluble resin over debris at the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant to prevent radiation leaks from spreading further, officials said Wednesday.

An unmanned, remote-controlled vehicle will spray the solution in order to affix radioactive substances onto the debris, the officials said.

The work will begin on a trial basis on Thursday.

Within the compound, masses of debris are strewn about the plant as a result of explosions, and this is making it very difficult for plant workers to bring the crisis under control.

While frantic efforts are under way to cool reactors and remove water contaminated with high levels of radiation from facilities in the plant, the government hopes to facilitate the task by making it safe for workers to perform.

The resin is designed to prevent dirt containing radioactive substances being scattered in the wind, the officials said, adding that the operation will be carried out by Tokyo Electric Power Co., owner of the atomic power plant.

Spraying resin over the debris at the plant is a temporary measure before fundamental measures are taken to contain radioactive substances, the officials added.

Seems like they aren't releasing all the information they have, bit odd to be employing such drastic measures as those used at Chernobyl.
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #932 on: March 30, 2011, 06:10:57 AM

It's not a measure to shield high radiation. It's to bind dust. Every time you'd walk around there you'd raise radioactive dust in ther air, that could spread further or get ingested/inhaled.
Sand
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Reply #933 on: March 30, 2011, 11:15:23 AM



Insider info.:  I anticipate some big-time private contracting starting up to deal with the cleanup of this mess; this is some very specialized shit.  That's all I can say about that for now.  If you're curious you can PM me.


http://www.tetratech.com/us/solutions-and-services/

Nice guess, but no.  I'm sure there are NDA's and non-competes involved with this stuff so as said, cant be specific on a public forum.  Just know there are mega-billions being thrown around similar to the BP fiasco that many contractors are chomping at the bit to take a chunk out of.  Japan, for all of its tech, simply doesnt have what's needed for the job necessary to solve the Fukushima problem, so it's being contracted out.  This is before even considering cleanup of the larger disaster.

Huh? My point was that they dont need a start up, Tetra Tech already provides that service (environmental remediation) and has the nuclear expertise to submit a bid ahead of any company looking to start up just to clean this one mess.
But I guess if someone wants to launch a start up based on this accident they are more than welcome to.
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #934 on: March 30, 2011, 12:05:48 PM

It's not a measure to shield high radiation. It's to bind dust. Every time you'd walk around there you'd raise radioactive dust in ther air, that could spread further or get ingested/inhaled.

Yes, it's to stick the dust down.
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #935 on: March 30, 2011, 12:18:54 PM

http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_images/pdf/ENGNEWS01_1301486904P.pdf

Quote
Air may be leaking from reactors No. 2 and 3
Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency says air may be leaking from the No 2 and No 3 reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi power plant. The agency was responding at a news conference on Wednesday to speculation that low pressure inside the 2 reactors was due to possible damage to the reactors' pressure vessels. It said some of their data show pressure is low, but there is no indication of large cracks or holes in the reactor vessels. The agency said fluctuations in temperature and pressure are highly likely to have weakened valves, pipes and openings under the reactors where the control rods are inserted.
Wednesday, March 30, 2011 15:15 +0900 (JST)

Ghambit
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Reply #936 on: March 30, 2011, 12:39:27 PM



Insider info.:  I anticipate some big-time private contracting starting up to deal with the cleanup of this mess; this is some very specialized shit.  That's all I can say about that for now.  If you're curious you can PM me.


http://www.tetratech.com/us/solutions-and-services/

Nice guess, but no.  I'm sure there are NDA's and non-competes involved with this stuff so as said, cant be specific on a public forum.  Just know there are mega-billions being thrown around similar to the BP fiasco that many contractors are chomping at the bit to take a chunk out of.  Japan, for all of its tech, simply doesnt have what's needed for the job necessary to solve the Fukushima problem, so it's being contracted out.  This is before even considering cleanup of the larger disaster.

Huh? My point was that they dont need a start up, Tetra Tech already provides that service (environmental remediation) and has the nuclear expertise to submit a bid ahead of any company looking to start up just to clean this one mess.
But I guess if someone wants to launch a start up based on this accident they are more than welcome to.

My point was that I know of some bidwars going on for particular areas involving the cleanup.  Companies similar to tetratech.  I was assuming you threw that out there as a guess as to what/whom were involved in said bids.  My response was that I couldnt say more.  (shrug)  These contracts are in the multi-billions of dollars and involve  very specialized equipment, ndas, etc.  Anyways, the whole point was to bring light to the fact there's a LOT of money-wrangling going on behind the scenes to deal with the aftermath of Fukushima specifically in the private sector.  Regardless of what you hear from the Japanese or U.S. govt, just know that private contractors are about ready to put their own boots on the ground if they can get these contracts signed.

It's the same moneygrubbing that went on after the GOM spill.  And these arent startups.

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Sand
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Reply #937 on: March 30, 2011, 02:12:42 PM

Im an idiot.

I read
Quote
I anticipate some big-time private contracting starting up to deal with the cleanup of this mess

to mean start ups.
Thats how it came across to me.


Ghambit
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Reply #938 on: March 30, 2011, 02:47:53 PM

Im an idiot.

I read
Quote
I anticipate some big-time private contracting starting up to deal with the cleanup of this mess

to mean start ups.
Thats how it came across to me.




Meh, no worries.  I am Ghambit, I never come across clearly.
Anyways, this kind of thing never comes to the limelight and this is a good thing.  People are dying, dead, a whole country near in ruin.  The last thing people want to see in the media is a bunch of opportunistic moneyhats making billions off the world relief effort.  But lining up they are, with upturned hats in hand and a shit-eatin grin on their faces.

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
Sand
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Reply #939 on: March 30, 2011, 08:50:22 PM

So for those who said the radiation and fall out would "never ever" effect the US much less reach the US, it has and has entered our food system already.
Radioactive iodine has already started turning up in milk supplies out of Washington state.

Now the argument will be made, its half life is 8 days so it wont linger long enough to be harmful. However, this is the same excuse/reason given as to why it would "never ever" make it to US shores in the first place. It made it into the atmosphere, was carried by the jet stream,  and consequently ended up in the milk supply. Quite remarkable for an 8 day half life. Additionally the levels are said to be to low to be harmful to humans. But again remember those assurances seem to becoming from the same people who assured us it would never reach us in the first place.

Every day it seems a new "never ever" rule is being broken.  Ohhhhh, I see.
bhodi
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No lie.


Reply #940 on: March 30, 2011, 09:06:39 PM

Additionally the levels are said to be to low to be harmful to humans. But again remember those assurances seem to becoming from the same people who assured us it would never reach us in the first place.

Every day it seems a new "never ever" rule is being broken.  Ohhhhh, I see.
OK, Nancy Grace. Why don't you panic more about how a fraction of a percent of the normal background radiation dose is cause for concern or is even of note, and why don't you also discard common sense because someone said nothing bad could possibly happen ever.

Oh wait, you are. Carry on.

Because you don't understand how half lives work, I guess I have to spell it out for you. 8 days means that in 8 days, it will be emitting half the radiation. In 8 more days, half again. Our detectors are extremely, incredibly, absurdly sensitive and can easily measure granularity far beyond a thousandth of a background dose. This means that we will be able to detect it for months and months and months as it goes from harmless to even more harmless.

And that yes, we can detect the radioactive steam that was released way back on day 2 and confirm that it has dispersed (harmlessly) about the globe. As shit that goes in the air is wont to do.


The site itself still has issues, especially considering the radioactive water it's spewing from the cooling exhaust, but that is a far, far cry from "OMG, milk in the US is contaminated". Your statement is almost exactly what Nancy Grace said when the weatherman tried to explain that not even Chernobyl affected the US and it spewed an incredible amount of shit into the air. If I could find the clip, I'd have just posted it instead.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 09:16:04 PM by bhodi »
Tebonas
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Reply #941 on: March 31, 2011, 04:19:57 AM

Yeah, but Chernobyl affected Europe plenty. Your argument isn't "We people don't have problems because of this" but "We Americans don't have problems because of this".

Which is only fair, because thats what everybody else will say when one of your reactors blows up.
Ironwood
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Reply #942 on: March 31, 2011, 05:41:25 AM

 Facepalm

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ghost
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Reply #943 on: March 31, 2011, 06:49:10 AM

I read this quote from Douglas Adams this morning, and thought it was apropos for this and many other current topics:

Quote
The difference between something that can go wrong and something that can't possibly go wrong is that when something that can't possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair.

In good news, my friend that lived in Northern Japan has done some Facebook updates and he and his family are okay and helping out with the efforts to clean up and help folks. 
Ghambit
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5576


Reply #944 on: March 31, 2011, 06:55:33 AM

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Efforts to recover the bodies from the 12-mile (20-kilometer) evacuation zone around the Fukushima Dai-ichi plant have been slowed by a wasteland of debris, but also by fears of radiation. Police in that prefecture dressed in full radiation suits retrieved 19 corpses from the rubble Wednesday, the police official said.

Each officer wears a radiation detector and must leave the area whenever an alarm goes off — a frequent occurrence that has often dragged the operation to a halt, the official said.

"We want to recover bodies quickly, but also must ensure the safety of police officers against nuclear radiation," he said.

Officers were forced to give up trying to recover one corpse Sunday after radiation on it triggered the alarm.

There also are concerns about the disposal of bodies, because Japanese tend to cremate their dead, and fires can spread radiation. The Health Ministry recommends that the bodies be cleaned and those with even small levels of radiation should be handled only by people wearing suits, gloves and masks.

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