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Author Topic: S#3 - Game Day #4  (Read 36694 times)
Llyse
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Calvin and Hobbes are back to maul the fuck outta you.


Reply #105 on: February 09, 2011, 08:26:33 PM

Yay for match reports to read at work!
Sky
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I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.


Reply #106 on: February 09, 2011, 08:58:54 PM

Gut Spillers grab their first win in a battle of who can roll the shittiest dice  why so serious? Game winning td on the last turn with a GFI roll. Spillers 1-0 over the tards.

Hell, I was just trying to get a couple spp on my thrower by completing passes...I completed one. I think everyone who touched the ball fumbled it at least once.

I love the game, but the reality is I just won't ever have the time to dedicate to it the way the majority of you seem to. It's much more fun against casual players like Haem and Ginaz, at least it feels like there's hope to win the match. Also kinda sucks that all season long, I've only leveled 2 players to lvl2, and one of those is a lineman...and he just got MVP again  Ohhhhh, I see.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2011, 09:04:16 PM by Sky »
Ginaz
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Reply #107 on: February 09, 2011, 09:06:40 PM

Gut Spillers grab their first win in a battle of who can roll the shittiest dice  why so serious? Game winning td on the last turn with a GFI roll. Spillers 1-0 over the tards.

Hell, I was just trying to get a couple spp on my thrower by completing passes...I completed one. I think everyone who touched the ball fumbled it at least once.

I love the game, but the reality is I just won't ever have the time to dedicate to it the way the majority of you seem to. It's much more fun against casual players like Haem and Ginaz, at least it feels like there's hope to win the match.

Yeah, that was some God awful dice rolls from both of us.  I enjoyed that game much more because we both seemed to be at the same skill level and it could have gone either way.  I had a couple of lucky Blitz (esp. at the end of the 1st half) and a few GFIs.  The down side is I have to see if theres any serious damage to my Mummy as she went down with a serious injury.
eldaec
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Reply #108 on: February 09, 2011, 09:38:27 PM

Horde 0 - 0 Burlinluv

Defensive masterclass by drogg - keeping the scoreline to 0-0 despite Horde holding the ball almost the whole game. More detail will have to follow later since I am now late for work.

Sadly Ronald Saveloy has achieved his goal of reaching valhalla.

I believe we're ready to roll over to day 5.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Ice Cream Emperor
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Reply #109 on: February 09, 2011, 11:07:32 PM

I love the game, but the reality is I just won't ever have the time to dedicate to it the way the majority of you seem to. It's much more fun against casual players like Haem and Ginaz, at least it feels like there's hope to win the match.

Yeah, I watched the replay of that game, and I ran out of advice to give around turn three. I took some notes but really I don't want to be that guy who keeps giving unsolicited advice to people who are just doing their thing.

That said, when your thing involves three consecutive turns throwing the ball away for almost no conceivable reason...  swamp poop Let's just say some cynical/cruel part of me watching that game was like 'why can't I be in that division?'
Falconeer
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Reply #110 on: February 09, 2011, 11:29:11 PM

Validated all matches. We are advancing to Game Day #5! Thank you all for playing your matches on time, grumpy ones included.

More stuff and an appropriate post later today.

Falconeer
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Reply #111 on: February 10, 2011, 01:16:32 AM

In the few hours before I get home and  can process all the data, you could all check if your replay is updated, and if it's not just do it. Otherwise, make sure I have a copy of it and I'll update them all by the end of the day. Thanks for your cooperation.

lamaros
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Reply #112 on: February 10, 2011, 01:24:38 AM

No replay here  awesome, for real.
Falconeer
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Reply #113 on: February 10, 2011, 01:39:20 AM

I love the game, but the reality is I just won't ever have the time to dedicate to it the way the majority of you seem to.

I am sorry to hear that Sky. Personally, I dedicate more time to the metagame than the game itself. I only play in the f13 League and the Orca Cola at the moment, which is 2 matches a week, definitely not so much. Do I suck bad? Hell yeah. Do I have fun? Absolutely.

I understand that, in order to win consistently, Blood Bowl requires you to bribe Nuffle with lots of notions, calculations and nifty strategies. Which I am bad at. But for some reason the game doesn't lose its appeal on me even in the face of the harshest losses, as between comedy, the illusion of having a chance, and the post-game progression I always find a reason to have fun and enjoy the game (or at least the first half, that is).

Hope you'll stick around until the end of the season and that a few obscenely lucky wins will eventually change your perception of the game.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2011, 06:02:00 AM by Falconeer »

Sky
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Reply #114 on: February 10, 2011, 07:27:01 AM

That said, when your thing involves three consecutive turns throwing the ball away for almost no conceivable reason...  swamp poop
Well, sure I made some mistakes, like forgetting to uncheck wrestle when he got a both down, so he didn't turnover to me.

But the passes were intentional bad decisions (although I question how bad a decision it is to have your sure hands guy pick up the ball and make a short pass (with rr) when safely behind a defensive wall against a slow bash team that's a mile away). I wasn't playing to win, I was playing to try and get some spp for my passer and that blitzer (the third bad catch I did miss he had one TZ on him, though). Winning means nothing, Ginaz and Haem are the only two I have any chance of winning against, it's not like I'm going to ever place in the playoffs against the caliber coaches in this league. I was just looking at my roster and seeing who need spp to level, since I only have two guys at level 2 after four games.

I wouldn't mind hearing what advice you (or anyone) has. Anything that can be done to convince me why I should bother playing would be awesome. I'm now looking at three more games of getting slaughtered by experienced coaches with no hope of winning.

I would also add the 2 minute clock is pretty brutal for new coaches trying to remember all the things to think about the rules and probabilities and still put together a strategy every turn. Maybe it's awesome for you guys, I can see it's enough time when I have a plan that doesn't get tricky. But most turns I wish I had more time to consider my moves, to me it's a negative to constantly be rushed into making mistakes beyond those I'll make just being a newb.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2011, 07:37:53 AM by Sky »
lamaros
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Reply #115 on: February 10, 2011, 07:51:22 AM

As much as people will sometimes say otherwise, lots and lots of this game is luck. I just played a game with my Skaven team a managed to have three players killed. It took out all the good players I had left and I had to retire the team.

Winning is fun and I'm sure most of us want to every now and then, but it's not the game entirely. If you keep it in mind that winning is not the sole point of the game then it allows you to relax and enjoy the other elements more.

As a general rule though: don't roll dice unless you absolutly need to do so, and this includes reroll dice. If you ask yourself "this could fail, do I need to do it?" before every action it allows you to deal with it more phlegmatically if it doesn't come off. "oh well, the pass failed, but I had to try otherwise I'd have lost the ball anyhow" is less annoying than "gah I shouldn't have passed there, he was never going to get it off me if I kept it".

I noticed in my feeder game with Haem that there was a lot of unnecessary passing and handing off. As a general rule you should never pass or handoff unless it will clearly help you score or stop the other player scoring. Throwing for spp is not at all uncommon, but it should only be done if getting that spp is the most important thing for your team goals, or it's really really safe (which means never burning a reroll if it fails).

Of course the fun is ignoring these rules and just playing how you want to. I nearly always try to score in two turns when receiving because I find it amusing to do so. It's not often very sensible to do so, but it's only a game, if it's fun the way you play it that's all that matters.
Falconeer
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Reply #116 on: February 10, 2011, 07:52:02 AM

No, the 2 minutes clock sucks for everybody. It was a measure take to fight what originally was anyone's biggest concerns: "games last too much and I don't have all that time".

Personally, I often hate the 4 minutes clock, especially when I am losing bad, but countless times I've been forced to mistakes by the 2 minutes one, and I still am.

Modern Angel
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Reply #117 on: February 10, 2011, 07:57:02 AM

I think the winning isn't everything mentality is key. If it's just the "pugs vs premades" mindset rather than the experience of playing in a league, developing a team and being a stat junkie... well, no. You might not have fun. Every team disintegrates eventually. Every one.

I signed up for a second league of super hardcore players that some RL friends had set up. I didn't notice it was four minutes until after I was already in and obligated to play. I fucking hate. I really, really, really fucking hate it. Never again. It takes games into hour and a half long territory and that's too long.
Sky
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Reply #118 on: February 10, 2011, 08:14:47 AM

It takes games into hour and a half long territory and that's too long.
I'd rather spend and hour and a half enjoying a game than 45 minutes or an hour or however long these things go being frustrated. I guess my concerns won't be a problem long though, eh?
Modern Angel
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Reply #119 on: February 10, 2011, 08:29:04 AM

We get it. No need to go the passive aggressive route.
drogg
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Reply #120 on: February 10, 2011, 08:43:00 AM

Horde 0 - 0 Burlinluv

Defensive masterclass by drogg - keeping the scoreline to 0-0 despite Horde holding the ball almost the whole game. More detail will have to follow later since I am now late for work.

Sadly Ronald Saveloy has achieved his goal of reaching valhalla.

I believe we're ready to roll over to day 5.
eldaec is a freakin' beast and if it hadn't been for some lucky armor rolls i would've been in trouble.  first half i chose to receive and immediately get blitzed; my left flank disintegrates and the norse cage off the carrier effortlessly.  the rest of the game is me vainly trying to wedge a skink in close enough to all the werewolves and berserkers to maybe have a chance at getting the ball while at the same time hoping the frenzy/mighty blow army doesn't manage to get in base-to-base with them.  luckily nuffle cooperates and i knock out enough rank and file to keep my saurii from getting marked - from then on it was just a matter of using my superior movespeed to keep eldaec from advancing.  i even had a (small) chance to score at the very end, but the skink passing game remains consistently terrible.

in other good news, my trusty krox gets his first kill  ZombieSigne

~shouts out to my best supporting actress av 9 and the inimitable morg n' thorg, who has now officially kept both huge TV teams of the bracket scuttling into the shadows~
eldaec
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Reply #121 on: February 10, 2011, 08:55:46 AM

It takes games into hour and a half long territory and that's too long.
I'd rather spend and hour and a half enjoying a game than 45 minutes or an hour or however long these things go being frustrated. I guess my concerns won't be a problem long though, eh?

The games take over an hour on 2 minutes. 2min x 2players x 16 turns + 90 seconds per kickoff + about 3 minutes getting the game running + half time + any opponent decisions that your clock stops for = about 80 to 90 minutes. Four minute games usually go to 2 hours.

I was new to BB in the last season, and although I thought 2 minutes would be too fast for me, it probably hurt the average to good players more than it hurt me - as back then there was a real limit on how much I could think through because keeping track of all the rules is hard. Second season I'm finding it is time that stops me theorycrafting everything out.

You can see a few fucks around here processing the block patterns in pico-seconds, but mostly 2 minutes increases errors by experienced players, but probably has less impact on new guys.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Sky
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Reply #122 on: February 10, 2011, 09:05:37 AM

We get it. No need to go the passive aggressive route.
I could go active aggressive if it would make you feel better.


 awesome, for real
eldaec
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Reply #123 on: February 10, 2011, 09:43:43 AM

Horde v Burinluv replay and full report.


The match starts on a 440 TV advantage to the Horde, Hunqua spend that on Morg n Thorg. Seems like a good choice, given that the other Lizardman option is pretty mediocre. The Lizards won the toss and chose to receive. As you'd expect, the Lustrian side sets up to dominate the centre, while the Norse focus on the flanks.

Slasher Mungo makes one of his trademark short kicks to the right flank, the Silver Horde win a blitz and Caleb the Ripper knocks down Qlaodon, Burinluv's only player on that flank. Nijel the Destroyer is able to get under the spot where ball is coming down, and the Horde cage on the right. A brawl forms which sets the pattern for the match, Huhnqua use the Lizard's mobility to match the Horde's movements; Saurii apply pressure to the cage and Skinks act as a safety wall to block any rapid forward progress. Nijel runs the cage to the left and back to the right, but can't catch the Lizard's out of position until  a smart diagonal run on turn 6 takes him just yards from the line. However, with Old Vincent badly hurt, as well as Caleb the Ripper and Bravd the Hublander KO'd there aren't quite enough Norsemen for a complete screen, so Morg n Thorg gets a tackle zone on the ball and too many dice to roll means Silver Horde can't quite run in the TD before half time.

Second half sees the Norse team recieving, early play looks good for the Horde with Detritus the Yhetee, reknowned guard Boy Willie, and Immortal "Some random Norse fuck who is lvl 27 and STR4" Jenkins dominating the Saurus trio of Mundi, Uta, and Adoiagaratl to gain control of the centre field. Bravd has some trouble picking up the fucking ball, but thanks to his dauntless attitude fights off even the attention of Morg to get control. This seemed to infuriate the Lizardmen, who turned the violence up a notch, starting with the unfortunate loss of Ronald "Teach" Saveloy to a sharp blow to the head from Drogg the Kroxigor, Ronald's quest to educate the barbarian heroes of the horde, while also swapping the somewhat austere educational afterlife for the glories of Valhalla, came to an end this day.

The Lizards held a strong line around halfway, and by turn 12 had sent 5 norsemen from the field. Overreliance on dodging had also stripped the Silver Horde of rerolls, and they were starting to suffer turnovers. Turn 14 saw the first real break by the Horde, Bravd the Hublander taking to the right flank, while most of the Lizards were tackled on the left. The Lustrian's speed saved them again, Boqjah, one Huhnqua's most celebrated Skinks, crucially barred Bravd's way, with his dodge+sidestep expertise preventing Bravd simply blitzing him aside. Instead the ball goes down, 2 turns left, and Burinluv suddenly have a chance at a win. The Lustrian side would need a pickup, a handoff, and to avoid the attentions of any safeties that the Silver Horde could get free. In the event, Uldapaz failed the pickup and the game came to a close scoreless.


Post game awards see Teach Saveloy naturally awarded posthumous MVP for the SIlver Horde, while Qlassa (an anonymous skink with no prior spp) gets the award for Burninluv.

With the obvious exception of Teach, both teams will be at full strength on day 5.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Modern Angel
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Reply #124 on: February 10, 2011, 10:22:23 AM

I could go active aggressive if it would make you feel better.
 awesome, for real

It would be more honest plus I could swear a lot more.
eldaec
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Reply #125 on: February 10, 2011, 10:27:51 AM

Jesus fuck where is my day 5 thread, there are Stormbringer match reports to post.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Falconeer
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Reply #126 on: February 10, 2011, 11:10:44 AM

Coming in about 40 minutes. Hard day at work  swamp poop

Teleku
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Reply #127 on: February 10, 2011, 11:12:37 AM

You mean this isn't your job?

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Ingmar
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Reply #128 on: February 10, 2011, 11:19:51 AM

On passing: if you're not a passing team, don't pass, unless times are absolutely desperate, or you're at the end of a game that can't be won/lost and you're just trying for that free SPP. Passing with agility 3 or less pieces is very very risky. With no other modifiers, an orc thrower throwing the shortest range pass has to roll a 3 to even launch the ball safely (pass lets him reroll that at least) and then assuming you're throwing to a lineorc or blitzer, and assuming the pass was on target, you have to roll another 3+ just to catch it. And it only gets harder to do if there are enemies next to your guys, you are outside that first short range increment, etc. etc.

I know they're called throwers and they get pass, but orcs playing a passing game, especially with undeveloped players, is not a real good idea. I would suggest playing it more like khemri and use your thrower as a running back at least early on.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Sky
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Reply #129 on: February 10, 2011, 11:31:46 AM

I mostly do. I figured with rr's banked (my thrower has leader) and a lot of breathing room I'd grab some spp because I'm so completely desperate for them. I guess I should've tried to pick up with the blitzer I need a score with and just used the rr on that instead. Couldn't work my black orcs into any sort of spp, either.
Ingmar
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Reply #130 on: February 10, 2011, 11:38:54 AM

Yeah, blocker/lineman types like black orcs are pretty much at the mercy of casualties/MVPs for picking up levels. With time they'll develop eventually, once they start picking up block things will get a lot better for you, until then your blitzers should be taking the blocks on opposing pieces with block probably.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Llyse
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Reply #131 on: February 10, 2011, 03:38:15 PM

You mean this isn't your job?
This.   awesome, for real

I love the forum Metagame and posts as much as the games.

Actually the games are way more stressful  why so serious?
ezrast
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Reply #132 on: February 10, 2011, 05:11:27 PM

I was new to BB in the last season, and although I thought 2 minutes would be too fast for me, it probably hurt the average to good players more than it hurt me - as back then there was a real limit on how much I could think through because keeping track of all the rules is hard. Second season I'm finding it is time that stops me theorycrafting everything out.
I'm the same way; the 2 minute turns only seriously hurt me a handful of times last season (prior to which I had played maybe two games with real people) but now it seems like I'm constantly running out of time. I don't know if it's because I'm strategizing more or if I'm just worse at decision-making with the seemingly "simpler" lizards.
Ice Cream Emperor
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Reply #133 on: February 10, 2011, 05:42:14 PM


Personally I really wish there was a 3 minute turn setting. It seems like my turns take an average of 2 minutes and 15 seconds. Playing 4 minute games tends to increase this average very slightly, but I wager that the difference between 2-minute and 4-minute turn games is actually probably only 15-20 minutes or so.

And I have had players die because of how the UI handles timing out mid-block (fuck you, Cyanide,) and given up numerous touchdowns because I didn't have time to move those last 2-3 guys. Personally I would prefer 4 minutes for my 'serious' (read: league) games, even though I do mostly play 2 minutes when matchmaking.


Sir T
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Reply #134 on: February 13, 2011, 03:46:39 AM

I think 3 minutes would be a good compromise.

Hic sunt dracones.
Modern Angel
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Reply #135 on: February 13, 2011, 04:45:02 AM

There is no three minute setting. Hence the issue. it's 40 seconds, 2 minute or 4 minutes.

Let me put it this way: I can't do 4 minutes. I won't do another 4 minute turn league. I'm in one now, completely by accident, and the games just take too long. I can't do that with a toddler running around and limited time in any given evening.
Falconeer
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Reply #136 on: February 13, 2011, 01:23:19 PM

Don't be "pressive" aggressive, MA!

Anyway, we are not gonna do 4 minutes, sorry. And just so you know, I lost last night due to the 2 minutes timer. I ran out of time on an offensive action where I was 1 pass away from a TD (with rerolls and pass skill), and because of that never made the pass while actually leaving my ball carrier vulnerable. Lost the ball, and the game. We'll keep at 2 minutes, even if that means I'll keep losing matches like a fucking noob

Modern Angel
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Reply #137 on: February 13, 2011, 01:28:07 PM

It really is weird how the timer affects the experienced players more.
Strazos
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Reply #138 on: February 13, 2011, 01:31:04 PM

A lot of time gets burned playing with pathing options and such.

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Sir T
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Reply #139 on: February 13, 2011, 01:31:37 PM

I've actually never run up against the 2 minute timer that i can remember. Maybe once.

Hic sunt dracones.
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