Dragon Age 2 - Here be spoilers.

[caladein]

Yeah I really don't understand why they switched from the in-game store/download in DA:O to the retarded Mass Effect style go-to-website method for DLC.

They switched, at least in part I assume, because DAUpdaterSvc was a buggy piece of junk for some players (myself included).  Which is doubly annoying because the DAUpdater proper isn't bad at all.

I don't know if issues with/dislike for the Social site are more widespread than the service issues, but at least in my case it works out a lot better.

[stray]

I have trouble differentiating between the pernicious effects of consoles on modern gaming, and actual terrorism, so I don't have an xbox.

This is good, if you guys keep thinking this way. The sooner Bioware gets the message that PC gamers are irrational and not even down for a compromise, the sooner we'll get fully console oriented games.

This was a step in the right direction though. You just need to pushed off the cliff entirely.  

edit: Oh, as for DLC, Legacy is pretty good actually. It's probably worth more for it's storyline and fights than any items, but that's cool with me.

The armor packs are... overpowered if you mix and match, and only slightly overpowered if you don't. The mage and rogue armors are nice looking too. Outside of the Champion set, you don't have many cool looking armors actually. I get kind of hung up on that shit, so I guess it was worth it for me.

[koro]

So yeah, my new DA:O game's chugging along pretty nicely. Did Leliana's Song and Darkspawn Chronicles for their import goodies (though I ended up replacing the armor from Leliana's Song with Leliana's red and black armor from the Sacred Ashes trailer via mod), slaughtered my way through the Circle Tower, did the Arl of Redcliffe (forcing myself to not take the easy way out and ask the Circle for help), then got Shale, did Return to Ostagar, and finished up Warden's Keep.

Party's currently:

Having a blast so far, which is kind of surprising due to how quickly I got bored with a warrior run last time I tried it. One thing I am curious about is the Golems DLC, since I poked around with it a tad with one of those premade level 20 Wardens you can make for it, and I kept getting stomped hardcore by the first Darkspawn fight, which seems utterly bizarre to me.

[stray]

Also went Berserker for my first specialization, but I don't get too much mileage out of it, since it takes a lot of babysitting due to the mode shutting off after every combat.

Yeah, I don't think it synergizes with 2h well.. Both "spreadsheet" wise and playstyle wise. At least, not like it does with duel wielding or weapon/shield.

Don't worry about it though. It's not a bad spec to have once you play Awakening.

..Actually, anything works in Awakening, but still...

Alistair: Full Cailan's set from Return to Ostagar, 'cause why not. Not really a huge Alistair fan and am considering subbing him out for Shale, who has two taunts and doesn't need a lot of fiddlefarting around with balancing stats to fit in gear while still meeting sword+shield skill prereqs.

I'm not a big Alistair fan either. He becomes a better tank later on than Shale though... if you gear him right. And he hits faster, if you want to build him that way.

Loghain is cooler than both.

Having a blast so far, which is kind of surprising due to how quickly I got bored with a warrior run last time I tried it. One thing I am curious about is the Golems DLC, since I poked around with it a tad with one of those premade level 20 Wardens you can make for it, and I kept getting stomped hardcore by the first Darkspawn fight, which seems utterly bizarre to me.

Yeah, it's on the hard side.. I think I had the ideal class for it last time around (sword/shield tank, spirit warrior), and it's still hard.

[rk47]

Shale gets outgeared once you start buying those DLC stuff. Especially if you get those Cailan sets and Warden Commander. Those are level scaled btw, so if you get them at lowbie level, they will lower the item levels accordingly..making it possible for a STR 20 rogue to wear full Cailan set.

[stray]

Shale gets outgeared once you start buying those DLC stuff. Especially if you get those Cailan sets and Warden Commander. Those are level scaled btw, so if you get them at lowbie level, they will lower the item levels accordingly..making it possible for a STR 20 rogue to wear full Cailan set.

And just to mention (probably already known), just put them in storage, and they'll scale to your level again. Although, it might be off by a tier or so.

You can also sell them and buy back from either vendor at the keep and it usually upgrades to a high tier (like dragonbone). Some items even get new rune slots.. like Alistair's noob Warden sword.

I wish it upgraded the Cousland sword though :( Who doesn't want to chop off Howe's head with that thing?

[koro]

Sadly the "toss level-scaled stuff in the storage chest for upgrades" trick doesn't work for us people of the PC Master Race, so I have to live with selling it to an NPC and buying it back, which upgrades it.

[stray]

Sadly the "toss level-scaled stuff in the storage chest for upgrades" trick doesn't work for us people of the PC Master Race, so I have to live with selling it to an NPC and buying it back, which upgrades it.

That probably gets expensive...

Or, it encourages playing some of the DLC later rather than sooner. Not a bad thing, I guess.

One other tip btw.. don't bother with +dmg/elemental runes on 2handers. Kind of the same reason I dont think berserker meshes with it well - they both are dependent on plain auto attack dmg and speed. While 2h's power revolves around active skills and crowd control. You're better off with Dweomer runes (spell resist).

[rk47]

Zerker actually enhances the active skill damage as well. It's not a complete waste - but the lowered Stamina regen will hurt your longevity. Maybe turn on zerker once you finish your opening active salvo. I do know the DLC Nug Crusher hammer adds 100 stam..so yeah..fuck'em up. 

[Ingmar]

Sadly the "toss level-scaled stuff in the storage chest for upgrades" trick doesn't work for us people of the PC Master Race, so I have to live with selling it to an NPC and buying it back, which upgrades it.

It does work on PC - use one of the mods that adds a storage chest to the camp and that chest will do it. I think it also allegedly works in the storage chest at Warden's Keep but I haven't tried.

[stray]

Zerker actually enhances the active skill damage as well. It's not a complete waste - but the lowered Stamina regen will hurt your longevity. Maybe turn on zerker once you finish your opening active salvo. I do know the DLC Nug Crusher hammer adds 100 stam..so yeah..fuck'em up.  

Ah, didn't know that. Fair enough.

OTOH, it's bordering on too much micromanaging for me. Which is also why I like Temp and Champ for it. And Spirit Warrior.


Zerkers in DA2 are another thing. My favorite way to play now by far.

[stray]

I hate not being able to register at the bioware site. Because I have to annoy you all with these thread bumps.


SPOILER

But for those of you who've played both sides, does the mage side make any sense to you? I'm not just talking about glaring plot holes of being an apostate in plain daylight, but just that the story itself doesn't even seem to be geared well for mages. Orsino's "Best Served Cold" quest doesn't make sense, for example. It was definitely concieved as a Meredith quest - you even get more dialogue and insight into her motivations if you do it that way (which is great btw). He barely says anything. And lets not even mention the final fight. It makes more sense siding with Meredith. A lot of people who side with mages seem to be pissed off and surprised at Orsino - because it's tacked on. The narrative flows naturally on the templar side.

That said, I'm wondering why it's even marketed as a mage friendly game. I mean, the Hawke on the cover and in the trailers is a mage, but that character story in-game is hard to fit in.

[Sjofn]

Orsino's part of Best Served Cold made sense to me, personally.

I'm not sure what you actually mean though, do you mean siding with the mages as 'mage side' or being a mage?

[stray]

Orsino's part of Best Served Cold made sense to me, personally.

I'm not sure what you actually mean though, do you mean siding with the mages as 'mage side' or being a mage?

Have you sided with Templars enough to get Meredith friendly with you? Her Best Served Cold dialogue is far more extensive than his. And basically, you get the quest because she's afraid she can't trust her own Templars anymore. Only you. And she gets personal enough that she explains her motivations about becoming a Templar. I ended up feeling sorry for her.

Anyways, she thinks there is a conspiracy against her (and she's right.. it plays out with Thrask as it does with Orsino). All Orsino does is give you a Fed-Ex quest and merely tell you to investigate why Templars and Mages are meeting.. and then when you turn the quest in, he regrets giving it to you. You're destroying his cause. You basically do Meredith's work indirectly by ousting them.

By siding with mages, I mean siding with Orsino at the end, regardless of class. One minute, he's happy to have Hawke on his side, and then out of nowhere he loses his shit and turns into a Harvester, kills his own people, and fights you even though he had every reason to trust you.

OTOH, if you side with Templars, he's backed into a corner, and has every reason to lose his shit - both Meredith and Hawke confront him, and he knows he has no chance. It gives all the excuse for him to turn into an abomination. He finally drops the act and gives out all his cards and say he knew all along that Quentin killed Hawke's mother, and now he's going to resort to that same research to fight them off. This doesn't happen if you side with mages. He just turns into a Harvester at random. It's stupid.

[Ingmar]

The only part that doesn't make sense is at the end when he gets all DESPAIR and uses blood magic to go harvester, right after you mop the floor with some templars. That said there is the whole thin-veil-Kirkwall-crazy-mage thing affecting him; he may very well have been a lost cause and the stress is the last thing to put him over etc. The game doesn't do a very good job of pointing the veil thing out, though, it is hidden in references here and there rather than spelled out.

[stray]

The only part that doesn't make sense is at the end when he gets all DESPAIR and uses blood magic to go harvester, right after you mop the floor with some templars. That said there is the whole thin-veil-Kirkwall-crazy-mage thing affecting him; he may very well have been a lost cause and the stress is the last thing to put him over etc. The game doesn't do a very good job of pointing the veil thing out, though, it is hidden in references here and there rather than spelled out.

Yeah, I gathered that about the codexes, but it's not as satisfying, narratively speaking. For me anyways.

The only way I'd want to side with mages is strictly out of ideals and a desire for individual freedoms. Conditions that have more to do with me, the player, rather than roleplaying. Nothing in the actual game. The only facts presented in the game are that mages are rarely to be trusted or downright insane, and by Act 3, my mom was killed by one, one of my party members is a lying abomination who would even kill other mages, and the other an idiot who would kill her own tribe. Logically speaking, most variations of Hawke would be so pissed off at that point that even Fenris would tell him to chill out.  

And from what I've gathered now, Gaider intended this. He has stated he regretted about how many times (gathered from statistics apparently) that people sided with mages in DAO. He wanted to create a world where mages are viewed as dangerous. So he rectified it in DA2 by making the majority of them obvious assclowns. He didn't want it to be easy to choose. If we all relied on our contemporary ideals, everyone would choose mages.

[CmdrSlack]

It seems pretty obvious that Meredith would just have every mage made tranquil. That so many end up blood mages almost makes sense, especially given the proximity to Tevinter.

I don't see how siding with Meredith makes sense unless you're RPing a Meredith-loving Templar. The fact she's made crazy by the lyrium sword makes me think that the entire Templar order is compromised.

[stray]

It seems pretty obvious that Meredith would just have every mage made tranquil.

It's not that obvious. Ser Alrik is the one who wanted to tranquil every mage (in the Anders mission when he finally loses it) and Meredith is explicitly pointed out as being against it. Gaider has said that she's just a PTA mom from hell. There are a few lines when she feels sorry for mages. She's not an extremist. Zealots like Alrik had no support from her. She was actually a normal Templar, in the spirit of Gregoir from DAO. A vigilant bitch, but that's it. She has one of the best lines in the game too, when she wants to investigate what Orsino is hiding (and she's right about him too). "If you can not think of a better way, do not brand me a tyrant." The only person who really thinks he has a better way is Anders. And he's a fucking lunatic.

This goes without mentioning that her own sister was a mage, and she grew up in a family much like Hawke's - running and moving around, hiding an apostate. Until her own sister killed her own family and slaughtered 70 people. Considering her history, she shows a lot of restraint for her position.

edit: I think the Lyrium sword isn't a sign of compromise so much as it's just her desperation. No different than anyone else, even your Hawke or Varric who use the lyrium rune to upgrade their asskicking ability. And the price you might pay for it. I expect something bad to happen to upgraded Bianca too.  

[stray]

BTW, I'm not a Templar defender.. just trying to make sense of the story. The other plausible story is being Warrior/Rogue and if Bethany is in the Circle. It makes sense to side with mages.. Your Hawke could give two shits about any other mage issues, but Bethany is the exception. I could even see a lot of neat contrasts with Meredith that way - both of you have/had family that were mages, but you've not gone overboard in your fear.

Being a mage and supporting the mages is pretty much everything against a lot of things Hawke is supposed to stand for. Legacy infers a lot about how you were trained - Malcolm Hawke would rather die than summon demons. I think they've written Hawke into a corner this way. Malcolm devoted his life to not giving into the worst sides of himself. It's a lesson that Bethany and Carver thinks you took well. Malcolm would hate Anders and Merrill both for giving in like they do. And it sounds like he's an Andrastian. He refers to the Maker, and even has a staff with Andraste on it. It takes the Grey Wardens to bend his arm and threaten to kill his wife to do anything forbidden. How all of this training would suddenly produce a shit giggling son/daughter blood mage revolutionary and supporter of ignorant retards is beyond me.

[rk47]

So, 'Blood demons made me do it'?

 

[stray]

So, 'Blood demons made me do it'?

 

eh, i guess.. But then, making that excuse is weak. The badass mages are the ones who can control it, rather than the other way around. That was always the bottom line of Andraste's cause too.

I used to not like Morrigan - I never understood why she was a poster girl for DAO. In real life, most dudes hate cranky bitches like that. But I have more respect for her in light of DA2 mages. If you just let her story play out and not respec her, she kind of resents blood magic. She hates being branded a malificar. She sees herself as something akin to folk magic or shamanism. And take her into the fade to fight for Connor, and the game forces a choice, where she will not deal with the Desire demon. She instantly tells it to fuck off. The only way to unlock blood magic is to be an asshat yourself.

[stray]

OK, here's my new theory (and I'll shut up after this).

I see a few threads of the story that make sense. Warrior/Rogue Male Hawke defending Bethany. Probably with Beth in the Circle. After his brother dies, I don't see why he'd let his sister come to the Deep Roads. This sets up a good ending. Another cool hint is mercy killing Wesley (Aveline's husband) in the beginning. Flemeth says, "Without an end, there can be no peace." It's a symbolic death of the Order itself. And Hawke isn't relishing it either. He's just thrown into this shit.

Lastly, default male Hawke and Bethany look related. I don't think that's an accident.

On that note, fem Hawke and Carver look like each other. And he's built for nearly full rivalry. Mage Hawke works well as female. Especially with the love interest options (either Anders or Fenris). And as happy as Carver is in the Wardens, I think you were supposed to diss him and make him a Templar. Why?? Because his portrait is Orange. lmao. Plus, it creates better drama for already built in rivalry. I think this could play out siding with mages or Templars. Carver's got a good speech at the end as a Templar, either way. Also, you never mercy kill Wesley as a fem Hawke. It makes no sense when Aveline is a helluva lot stronger than you to do it. I love the scene if you've got rivalry with her.. it plays out well with a Fem Hawke. Aveline knocks the shit out of her.

[Sjofn]

I side with the mages almost every time at the end, because slaughtering an entire Circle for an act they had fuck all to do with is fucking insane, and nearly none of my Hawkes are willing to do that, ESPECIALLY if their sister is still alive and in the Circle.

I do like the Fenris romance as a mage, but it doesn't lose anything if you're a dude Hawke. Hell, it ADDS a silly dick joke. 

[stray]

I side with the mages almost every time at the end, because slaughtering an entire Circle for an act they had fuck all to do with is fucking insane, and nearly none of my Hawkes are willing to do that, ESPECIALLY if their sister is still alive and in the Circle.

I do like the Fenris romance as a mage, but it doesn't lose anything if you're a dude Hawke. Hell, it ADDS a silly dick joke. 

Actually, yeah, my bad. Gaider said his first concept of a Fenris romance was with another male. Probably works well with a mage either way though.

Hell, I'm almost gay for him. I could sit and listen to his whining for awhile - all because of his theme song. It's pretty good. lol

[Raguel]

I side with the mages almost every time at the end, because slaughtering an entire Circle for an act they had fuck all to do with is fucking insane, and nearly none of my Hawkes are willing to do that, ESPECIALLY if their sister is still alive and in the Circle.

I do like the Fenris romance as a mage, but it doesn't lose anything if you're a dude Hawke. Hell, it ADDS a silly dick joke. 

Does Bethany die if you side with the Templars? With everyone saying choices mean nothing, I just assumed she lives (if she doesn't go to the Deep Roads) no matter what.

[stray]

I side with the mages almost every time at the end, because slaughtering an entire Circle for an act they had fuck all to do with is fucking insane, and nearly none of my Hawkes are willing to do that, ESPECIALLY if their sister is still alive and in the Circle.

I do like the Fenris romance as a mage, but it doesn't lose anything if you're a dude Hawke. Hell, it ADDS a silly dick joke.  

Does Bethany die if you side with the Templars? With everyone saying choices mean nothing, I just assumed she lives (if she doesn't go to the Deep Roads) no matter what.

She can.. After the Orsino fight, Meredith demands her execution. But this would be the most evil bastard thing you could do in the game. You can also spare her too.

EDIT: I don't think choices don't mean anything. They mean nothing in terms of getting your standard hero ending. That's about it. I think that's what people are annoyed about.

You can at least build an interesting personality with your character, and for the most part, decide who's in your party, who's your friend, etc.. And I imagine some of the choices you make with your party here will have big consequences. Or so I hope.

For example, letting Isabella get away with the Relic might strengthen the Tevinters against the Qunari. And giving the Qunari (not to mention dueling the Arishok) may earn Qunari respect. Personally, I hate Tevinter. I'll do anything to avoid them. For one, they're just badly dressed. I would hate to load up a saved game in DA3, suddenly finding myself an ally of these fucks, and having to do quests for them. I blame them for those beanie hat cowls. Mage freedom, my ass. Mages are enslaved to look like idiots.

[tmp]

Personally, I hate Tevinter. I'll do anything to avoid them. For one, they're just badly dressed. I would hate to load up a saved game in DA3, suddenly finding myself an ally of these fucks, and having to do quests for them. I blame them for those beanie hat cowls.

Not to worry, since Orlais is also rumoured to appear in DA3, you can probably side with them instead thus acquiring large selection of dead birds to adorn your hair with, and whatnot.

[stray]

Personally, I hate Tevinter. I'll do anything to avoid them. For one, they're just badly dressed. I would hate to load up a saved game in DA3, suddenly finding myself an ally of these fucks, and having to do quests for them. I blame them for those beanie hat cowls.

Not to worry, since Orlais is also rumoured to appear in DA3, you can probably side with them instead thus acquiring large selection of dead birds to adorn your hair with, and whatnot.

Orlesian threads are the shit. Just ask Leliana.

No wait, get the Mage Pack. Malcolm's Apostate gear is one of the best looking in the game. It's a bit V for Vendetta-ish.

I thought the dead birds and feathered paldrons were still a Tevinter thing. Most of the high end Tevinter stuff in DAO was like that. Along with Anders' get up (at least, I think he's kind of a Tevinter sympathizer).

[tmp]

I thought the dead birds and feathered paldrons were still a Tevinter thing.

Nope, it's a story Leliana tells you about Orlesian court fashion (the birds were actually caged and alive, and shat all over the wearer's hair)

There's apparently going to be a sample of what's coming in the new DLC they're shipping in few days. Alas, no useful screenshots but you can catch a glimpse in the trailer.

[stray]

I thought the dead birds and feathered paldrons were still a Tevinter thing.

Nope, it's a story Leliana tells you about Orlesian court fashion (the birds were actually caged and alive, and shat all over the wearer's hair)

There's apparently going to be a sample of what's coming in the new DLC they're shipping in few days. Alas, no useful screenshots but you can catch a glimpse in the trailer.

Hah.. I've played DAO way too much, but I've yet to come across that particular dialogue. I don't believe you. 

Yeah, I've seen the trailer. The wardrobe, the architecture, etc. caught my eye. It's a little Renaissance-ish. Much like that Apostate armor.

[Sjofn]

I think she only tells the story to lady wardens. So if you've never been a lady, that would explain it.

[stray]

I think she only tells the story to lady wardens. So if you've never been a lady, that would explain it.

Ah. Yeah, I've never played one. I've been meaning to do a City Elf though. That seems like the coolest origin for a female.

[tmp]

I think she only tells the story to lady wardens. So if you've never been a lady, that would explain it.

Ah, that could be it. Think it's included in the shoes conversation and that's girls-only.

[Rasix]

I think she only tells the story to lady wardens. So if you've never been a lady, that would explain it.

Ah. Yeah, I've never played one. I've been meaning to do a City Elf though. That seems like the coolest origin for a female.

There's a hilarious line you get to say to King Cailan if you're a city elf and the end to your origin story is a bit bloody.  His reaction is priceless.

[Sjofn]

I think she only tells the story to lady wardens. So if you've never been a lady, that would explain it.

Ah, that could be it. Think it's included in the shoes conversation and that's girls-only.

I can't remember if it's in that conversation or a seperate one. But it starts out with her being all "Did I ever tell you I really like your hair?"