Dragon Age 2 - Here be spoilers.

[Koyasha]

I loved DA:O FAR FAR MORE than is healthy, and I have to say, I think there is a weeee bit of rose-colored glasses going on. DA:O was better at making you think you had made a choice that mattered, but when you get down to it, none of them really did from a gameplay standpoint.

It's because there aren't little flashcards at the end, isn't it. There's no "You were a bitch to X, so they went on to do Y" closure, or whatever.

Even without the flashcards, I think a scene like the post-coronation scene would have closed up DA2 a lot more satisfactorily for me and a lot of people.  I really did feel like the end was a sudden cutoff.  Even if none of the stuff in post-coronation in DA:O mattered, having that little scene was always a nice finisher to the game.  A similar scene in DA2 - coronation or whatever if you sided with the templars, maybe at a camp in the wilderness with your companions and some of the mages you helped along the way if you sided with the mages - would have wrapped up the game much better than the sudden 'cut to three years later with no explanation'.

[Azuredream]

I agree with the above post. I love me a good epilogue. DA3 was inevitable so you can do your cliffhanger but it'd still be nice for an internal resolution. I mean, they already had it going in the acts themselves, with people you save in act I sending you letters at the start of act II, etc.

[rk47]

I loved DA:O FAR FAR MORE than is healthy, and I have to say, I think there is a weeee bit of rose-colored glasses going on. DA:O was better at making you think you had made a choice that mattered, but when you get down to it, none of them really did from a gameplay standpoint.

It's because there aren't little flashcards at the end, isn't it. There's no "You were a bitch to X, so they went on to do Y" closure, or whatever.

If you think DA2 problem is simply the removal of slides explaining consequences to your action, then I guess it's alright to call DA2 a raging success.

[Sjofn]

Yeah, that's exactly what I was saying. 

I'm saying, and two posters have now apparently agreed with me, that the lack of "real" ending probably made the "none of it mattered" more obvious than DA:O did. In DA:O, ultimately, most of your choices didn't matter for shit, except they changed your epilogue. Oh, they felt significant while you were making them (and the first time through DA2, my choices felt pretty significant to me in the same way), but none of them really mattered that much. You were still gonna have a Landsmeet, you were still gonna make it past the Landsmeet, and you were still gonna beat the Archdemon.

I would've preferred some epilogue goodness in DA2 myself. But I like that shit.

[Azuredream]

From what I've read in this thread the breaking point for some people was finding out that the last two bosses were completely identical no matter who you sided with. That was a really dumb decision. I mean, they couldn't have just added a Templar captain to fight if you side with the mages, and THEN the final boss for both paths can be Meredith?

[Ingmar]

Presumably for whatever story plans they have down the road, they needed Orsino to go nuts.

[Sjofn]

The Orsino fight could've worked, even, if it wasn't so stupid when you sided with the mages. He goes all WOE, ALL IS LOST after a ridiculously easy wave of templars. If it was more a Ser Cauthrien-esque fight, one you're designed to lose, and he goes WOE, ALL IS LOST when you're about to lose THAT, it would work a lot better, I think.

[tmp]

It also lacked a renegade interrupt when you punch him in the dumb mouth and out cold to stop that particular fight from occuring.

edit: as for why that fight is there and obligatory... according to what they said, supposedly the writers wanted to make a point how good intentions can lead to disastrous results sometimes.

[Lantyssa]

The irony burns.

[tmp]

I did try to refrain from pointing it out, too...

[MournelitheCalix]

Presumably for whatever story plans they have down the road, they needed Orsino to go nuts.

I looked at it another way.  Orsino had to  go nuts in order to wrap up the story line involving the serial killer and hawk's mother.  If you look carefully you find a note addressed to the killer that is signed O.  I thought that the Orsino flesh golem was simply an extention of the serial killer's blood magic work.

[Koyasha]

My problem with the Orsino fight has always been exactly the same point Sjofn said: it happens at a point where it doesn't make any goddamn sense at all to despair.  Hello, I just wiped the floor with these templars and nothing bad happened at all.  Nobody died or even got seriously injured.  And this is on Nightmare.  The prevailing attitude at that point aught to be 'awesome, we're going to kick their asses!'

[Azuredream]

I looked at it another way.  Orsino had to  go nuts in order to wrap up the story line involving the serial killer and hawk's mother.  If you look carefully you find a note addressed to the killer that is signed O.  I thought that the Orsino flesh golem was simply an extention of the serial killer's blood magic work.

I didn't make the connection until I came on here and somebody pointed it out. It seemed more like an easter egg than a plot point.

[Sjofn]

My problem with the Orsino fight has always been exactly the same point Sjofn said: it happens at a point where it doesn't make any goddamn sense at all to despair.  Hello, I just wiped the floor with these templars and nothing bad happened at all.  Nobody died or even got seriously injured.  And this is on Nightmare.  The prevailing attitude at that point aught to be 'awesome, we're going to kick their asses!'

Yeah, exactly! DON'T WORRY, ORSINO, YOU HAVE THE FUCKING CHAMPION ON YOUR SIDE.

[lamaros]

In DA:O: Oh, they felt significant while you were making them (and the first time through DA2, my choices felt pretty significant to me in the same way), but none of them really mattered that much.

I played and finished DA:O but I never ever felt that my choices meant shit at any point, before or after.

[Azuredream]

Did you like the game despite that?

[lamaros]

Did you like the game despite that?

I played it and I finished it, and I enjoyed it in parts, but I never really felt that it was that 'good' a game. It wouldn't be anywhere near a list of my favourite rpgs.

[Sjofn]

I actually did the Side with the Templars Ending with a full rival Anders. The rival ending for Anders (especially if you make him help you with the templars) is pretty depressing if you like that character at all. Makes him seem like a bit less of an asshole (I think) but everything is still all his fault.

Bethany was not thrilled with me (she was a Grey Warden) either, but for Bethany that means two angry words and then you're suddenly her idol again. It kinda cracks me up how non-sisterly she feels to me. No one loves their older sibling that much, I am pretty sure.

[Raguel]

If you make Bethany a warden, is she an available party member for the whole game?

[tmp]

I imagine just like Warden Carver she's missing all way till things go down the drain in the Act 3 finale.

[caladein]

Yes.

[Sjofn]

Yep, it's like Warden Carver. And like Warden Carver, you get to see her a little bit more than if she gets stuck in the Circle (or Carver joins the Templars), so that's nice. She doesn't like it very much, though.

[Koyasha]

I thought she felt good as a warden at the end, but I may be misremembering cause it's been a while.  She didn't like it at first, but it seemed like she grew into it.  I have yet to play with Warden Carver, and someday when I go back to replay some more I'm definitely going to do that because it feels like it's right for him.  He wants to be someone that matters and do things that matter without always being in his big sister's shadow, so it seems like exactly the kind of opportunity he's been looking for all along, whether he realizes it at first or not.

[Sjofn]

She comes around on it by the end, but she seems more content overall as a Circle mage, and she never sounds as happy about being a warden as Carver does. 'Cause you're right, it's just about perfect for Carver, and while I will probably do a Templar Carver playthrough eventually, I really like him as a warden. Plus it means he gets to be a stupid little brother when I run into the wardens during the qunari shit and when I go find Nate in the Deep Roads. More jerkass little brother is always good. <3

[tmp]

I have yet to play with Warden Carver, and someday when I go back to replay some more I'm definitely going to do that because it feels like it's right for him.  He wants to be someone that matters and do things that matter without always being in his big sister's shadow, so it seems like exactly the kind of opportunity he's been looking for all along, whether he realizes it at first or not.

Yup, that's pretty much how it plays out for Carver, down to the reasoning even. In the end was really glad he ended up like that.

[tmp]

Semi related, apparently a new Dragon Age novel is about to go out

BioWare, TOR Books and author David Gaider are pleased to announce the next novel set in the world of Dragon Age, Dragon Age: Asunder. A mystical killer stalks the halls of the White Spire, the heart of templar power in the mighty Orlesian Empire. To prove his innocence, Adrian reluctantly embarks on a journey into the western wastelands that will not only reveal much more than he bargained for but change the fate of his fellow mages forever.

They have interview with David Gaider about it at http://www.bioware.com/biowaretv

[Raguel]

Just got the Exiled Prince, and I'm doing "Repentance". I get into the Hariman (sp) estate, go into a room with a chest (poison ring or some such),  get the cutscene with a drunken Lady Hariman and then there's nothing I can find to interact with. No door no chest. Is this a bug or user error? 

[Ingmar]

There are a few cutscenes of weirdness going on as you progress through the estate, I don't recall there being anything to interact with specifically down in the cellar below the walkway where she is. There's definitely a door somewhere to go to the next hallway or whatever, I think up above.

[Raguel]

There are a few cutscenes of weirdness going on as you progress through the estate, I don't recall there being anything to interact with specifically down in the cellar below the walkway where she is. There's definitely a door somewhere to go to the next hallway or whatever, I think up above.

 If there's a door, it's not obvious. I guess I'm bugged. I really don't want to uninstall/reinstall, but I may have too. I'm going to try it again.

[Reg]

Don't do that. I remember the place was a bit of a maze. Just go through it again methodically and make sure you went into all the rooms.

[Raguel]

I found it.  I didn't notice it because the room was so dark.

[Raguel]

I had a hard time beating Arishok with my 2h warrior. On hard I just beat him with my rogue ladyhawke w/o taking a hit.  

[Merusk]

Really? My 2h Warrior chewed through him by abusing charge and whirlwind along with the extra damage buff thing.. I think in the Destroyer tree.

[eldaec]

So I might get around to playing this soon.

Someone explain the current position with bullshit DLC.

I'm not interested in crap like bonus items or even the equivalent of Warden's Keep and Return to Ostagar. Just if there is anything on the scale of Shale in Origins, shit that is an obvious cut out from the main story ? Also does Bioware DLC still require me to download it from their horrible website or can I get it from steam?

Oh god just thinking about this reminds me how much I hate DLC.

[caladein]

The Exiled Prince is the Shale-equivalent and the only DLC that fits your parameters.  A good character that adds to the story (and he's probably more integral to fleshing the story out then Shale).

A few "DLC" items (like the armors for owning other EA titles) are just unlockables that are shipped with the base game, no downloading required.  For stuff like Exiled Prince, you will need to use the BioWare Social Network site and download a self-contained installer.  If you've ever bought DLC for Mass Effect 2, it's the same procedure.