Cracks starting to show?

[Oban]

[kildorn]

"Every talent tree is clearly labelled with an icon so that even if you can't read the description which tells you it's for healing, you'll still be able to make an informed choice."

I kinda lost you with that complaint. Labeling something as a healing tree/skill doesn't seem like a bad thing, it seems like a UI design from 1991 thing to not have it. Most of the apps I use for work have pretty clear labels like giant red ! or X if I shouldn't do that right now, or at least should know they're kind of a big deal.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I mean, I have my gripes and I even started this thread but god DAMN there are some sandy vaginas in here.

[Reg]

Most of the sandiness seems to be coming from people who are just burnt out on the game.  It happens to everyone eventually. The trick is to let go, move on to a new game and avoid turning into a grumpy old man shaking his fist at the kids on his lawn.

[Maledict]

Yeah, i was going to get into a big arguement about quality, but ultimately it just boils down to the fact we've been playing this game for years and its completely rational to want off the ride at some point. Its just bein able to recognise that is important, as otherwise yiu. An end up forcing yourself to keep playing whilsy actively disliking the game like many of us did with EQ - whuich wasnt healthy!

Personally, i almost quit during wrath because thr quality of the expansion and content was so ridiculously low post Ulduar, and in my mind was some of the worse content they have ever done. Cata raids and instances are fun whilst challenging, rewarding decent without the horrible grinding heroic s of TBC. The quality of the new raids is absolutly top notch even if the 10/ 25 split isnt working too well, and overall the game is simply fun again. But thats my subjective opinion!

Thr only thing i would say is that the poster above who was sayin this is some form of 'dumbed down' game is, factually, not correct. The vast majority of classes are tougher to play to a high level than they were in TBC or wrath. Fights are more complicated, trash is more complicated and classes are more complicated - one critiscm you cant level at cata is that its easy mode. Heck, for the first timr si ce vanilla outdoor mobs are an issue for my mage - thise freaken wildhamme dwarves in twilight highlands are *dangerous*, and if i get more than one I'm pulling out sheep. I havent done that in 5 years...

[Hawkbit]

Maybe for people like me (yes, I just need to let go, if not for family playing I would in a heartbeat), but Kail brings up some really valid points in the first 2/3 of the post.  As a returning player, there's a truckload of dumb shit you have to do just to get to play the game.  It's been optimized for the new player, but not the player that only plays for six months after an xpac.  

I still contend that there's too many goddamn abilities.  Hell, they even went so far as to start roping abilities into swing-out buttons (warlock/hunter pets, portals... etc.).  Which is good, because my hunter in BC had too many abilities to fit into all 60 buttons on the stock UI.  Did I need all of them?  Nope.  But they gave them to me, so my rationale was that I'd need them at some point.  

For the record, I like the changes to ammo and reagent usage - less tedium is in the right direction.  I'm just not a fan of everything else.  :/

[Lantyssa]

There's another trial going on, for those that want to see Cataclysm and have Wrath:  Trial Stuffs

Since I'm going to be out for a few days after getting my wisdom teeth pulled, I figured I could pay my proto-drake (and a few friends) a visit.  I'm just using it to do the Worgen and Goblin areas.  I might putter about on my 80s, but doubtfully for long.

[Reg]

If you only have time for one newbie do a goblin. It's starting areas are way better than the worgen.

[kildorn]

Heck, for the first timr si ce vanilla outdoor mobs are an issue for my mage - thise freaken wildhamme dwarves in twilight highlands are *dangerous*, and if i get more than one I'm pulling out sheep. I havent done that in 5 years...

You have no idea how much I like to fuck with people doing those dailies on the horde side. They sit there picking off a dwarf or two, I fly in and almost instantly murder every orc on the field, and every remaining dwarf takes off after the horde <3

Solo pve wise, locks are in a good place ;)

[AcidCat]

I have a feeling that a few years down the road a lot of people will be thinking of WOTLK as the game's peak.

Agreed. As an altoholic I love the redone old world, but the 80+ content is just leaving me really underwhelmed.

[ghost]

Most of the sandiness seems to be coming from people who are just burnt out on the game.  It happens to everyone eventually. The trick is to let go, move on to a new game and avoid turning into a grumpy old man shaking his fist at the kids on his lawn.

This is exactly the issue.  I played a bit, but just can't get back into it because it has become a boring chore to level up a character.  That doesn't mean the game isn't well done. 

One change I would really like to see is "gearless" PvP.  It's been shown that people will do shit just for an achievement status.  It would be much more enjoyable to participate in the battlegrounds if there was an even playing field.  I don't want to have to grind BGs for months just to be even mildly competitive.  And I don't want to participate in Arenas for months to get on a level playing field with all the poopsockers. 

[Ingmar]

If you only have time for one newbie do a goblin. It's starting areas are way better than the worgen.

I would agree in a vacuum, but knowing Lanty she will far prefer the worgen zone, it lacks the silly factor.

[Paelos]

I asked the guild who was up for the daily random dungeon run yesterday. One of them responded, "Man, I feel like I'm already doing the same thing everyday. This is like a job."

 

[Ingmar]

Oddly I felt more that way about the daily heroic in WotLK, but I'm not sure I could say why.

[Kail]

"Every talent tree is clearly labelled with an icon so that even if you can't read the description which tells you it's for healing, you'll still be able to make an informed choice."

I kinda lost you with that complaint. Labeling something as a healing tree/skill doesn't seem like a bad thing, it seems like a UI design from 1991 thing to not have it. Most of the apps I use for work have pretty clear labels like giant red ! or X if I shouldn't do that right now, or at least should know they're kind of a big deal.

Not really a complaint (Icons on talent trees?!?! WTF *RAGEQUIT*), it's just contributing towards a general impression.  It's hard for me to pin down, everything just seems less complex and more streamlined in the hopes of making the game even more retard proof than it was.  Like apparently only one DK spec is a viable tank, now, so if you were confused about the difference between a Frost tank and an Unholy tank, now you just go Blood, no thought required.  Might just be surface deep (I haven't done much with anyone over level 15), but that's the impression I'm getting.

[Ingmar]

The DK tanking change is less about dumbing things down for players and more about making tank balancing easier for the devs.

[Maledict]

"Every talent tree is clearly labelled with an icon so that even if you can't read the description which tells you it's for healing, you'll still be able to make an informed choice."

I kinda lost you with that complaint. Labeling something as a healing tree/skill doesn't seem like a bad thing, it seems like a UI design from 1991 thing to not have it. Most of the apps I use for work have pretty clear labels like giant red ! or X if I shouldn't do that right now, or at least should know they're kind of a big deal.

Not really a complaint (Icons on talent trees?!?! WTF *RAGEQUIT*), it's just contributing towards a general impression.  It's hard for me to pin down, everything just seems less complex and more streamlined in the hopes of making the game even more retard proof than it was.  Like apparently only one DK spec is a viable tank, now, so if you were confused about the difference between a Frost tank and an Unholy tank, now you just go Blood, no thought required.  Might just be surface deep (I haven't done much with anyone over level 15), but that's the impression I'm getting.

As outlined above, it really is surface deep. Whilst they have made levelling vastly easier in terms of talents and abilities, classes as a whole are more complicated to play to the top of their ability. The only ones I think aren't are probably shadowpriests compared to TBC and affliction warlocks.

[Merusk]

The DK tanking change is less about dumbing things down for players and more about making tank balancing easier for the devs.

Yeah, this was a change that needed to happen.  Without it you could wind-up with Tank specs that DPSd hard (PVP bitch) or DPS specs that were wholly shit (lol dual-wield blood DK I saw struggling in Blasted Lands.)  so Blizzard just kept DKs at a "meh" level after their initial nerfs because it was too hard to fix.

[caladein]

The complexity is not only still there, but increased in a lot of cases.  It's just moved from the preparation side of managing tons of stats or talents to the combat side. 

[Azazel]

The thing I fundamentally don't understand about Cata is they redo a bunch of lowbie zones but you aren't a lowbie anymore. You're supposed to re-roll just to see the changes? It's like someone doing me a favor by sprucing up the apartment I moved out of 3 years ago.

People have been wanting to fly in the old world ever since BC came out. They've always said that there were a variety of tech reasons it couldn't be done and that it would require rebuilding the whole world. They rebuilt the "whole" world, but decided that if they were doing all this they may as well change shit up. Add 2 new races to run through it all, open up a bunch of new class/race combos, scale the 10 levels into 5, release.

Sure there are fewer levelling zones, but while I can't remember who said it here earlier, it's not like everyone was hanging around Grizzly Hills...

[SurfD]

The thing I fundamentally don't understand about Cata is they redo a bunch of lowbie zones but you aren't a lowbie anymore. You're supposed to re-roll just to see the changes? It's like someone doing me a favor by sprucing up the apartment I moved out of 3 years ago.

Just out of curiosity, what exactly is stopping you from simply hopping on your level 85 toon and going back and doing the lowbie zones?  I mean, yeah, you might lose out on the tiny bit of immersion that is "oh no, you cant get this quest till you ding level 15" when you are 13 or 14, which i suppose, could mess up the "intended" quest flow through the zone by a miniscule amount that only a hardened lore geek would even complain about.  And I suppose one shotting pretty much everything as you mow through the quests might possibly get boring after a while, but aside from being unable to do the new 1-8 / 1-10 ish absolute newb starter areas, every single other quest is open and available to you.

Nothing really forces you to re-roll a completely new toon just to experience the new old world zones.

Instead of thinking of it like the old appartment you moved out of 3 years ago, think of it more like improvements to the playground down the street that you stopped playing in as a kid, but still think on fondly when the nostalgia hits.

[Ironwood]

Except they tend to lock you up when you're 46 and go to the local playground for a romp.  Trust me.

 

[Oban]

Except they tend to lock you up when you're 46 and go to the local playground for a romp.  Trust me.

 

I am so glad the parks around here have banned hunters as well.

[Xanthippe]

My complaint du jour is the Blizzard community.

I've noticed a huge increase in hacking/botting lately.  Maybe that's because I've been out in the world picking herbs and mining nodes more, but last week I found 5 underground miners/herbalists in Hyjal alone.  Battleground botting is also still a problem.  Does Blizzard actively try to find these guys, or do they simply rely upon players reporting them?  I cannot imagine it's all that difficult to fix.

Also, on my server, Twilight Highlands chat is worse than tradechat ever was.  I don't know if this is just my server, but some people have absolutely no boundaries whatsoever between what they say publicly and privately.  I never considered myself easily offended or shockable, and have quite a potty mouth myself - yet I've been reporting folks right and left for offensive chat.  (Explicit descriptions of lurid fantasies, for example).  These folks seem to have no consideration of the idea of being in public. 

I don't know what the penalties are for bad behavior, but apparently they're not strong enough to deter people from behaving badly.

[Merusk]

(Explicit descriptions of lurid fantasies, for example).  These folks seem to have no consideration of the idea of being in public. 

It's a generational thing.  Any attention is good attention in the "I'm a superstar" world they grew up in.

[Xanthippe]

(Explicit descriptions of lurid fantasies, for example).  These folks seem to have no consideration of the idea of being in public. 

It's a generational thing.  Any attention is good attention in the "I'm a superstar" world they grew up in.

So the generation playing WoW today is a different one than was playing 2 years ago?

[Morfiend]

(Explicit descriptions of lurid fantasies, for example).  These folks seem to have no consideration of the idea of being in public. 

It's a generational thing.  Any attention is good attention in the "I'm a superstar" world they grew up in.

So the generation playing WoW today is a different one than was playing 2 years ago?

I think its just more extreme trolls. I actually noticed this in some guildmates. Basically, in an attempt to do joking trolls, you slowly become what you are joking about and pretty quickly general explodes.

[Malakili]

  These folks seem to have no consideration of the idea of being in public. 

I don't think they really consider it "public" in the way you do, would be my guess.

[Modern Angel]

Once any form of meaningful public censure was removed from the individual server communities (don't group with that guy, he's an asshole) with the introduction of LFD why should they behave?

[Minvaren]

So the generation playing WoW today is a different one than was playing 2 years ago?

Unscientifically, based on the size of my ignore list and the number of "just plain foul" character names I see...  Yes.

(edit:  I swear it wasn't like this just a year ago.)

[kildorn]

Once any form of meaningful public censure was removed from the individual server communities (don't group with that guy, he's an asshole) with the introduction of LFD why should they behave?

We had pretty notorious pricks in trade chat before LFD, and they just became tiny server celebrities. Public censure in an MMO of any size seems like a terrible method of enforcing anything.

I think it's more that the game keeps growing, and even if the percentage of obnoxious pricks stays static, the total number of them found in a particular channel will increase. You get a few pricks talking to each other, and the channel becomes useless.

[Merusk]

(Explicit descriptions of lurid fantasies, for example).  These folks seem to have no consideration of the idea of being in public. 

It's a generational thing.  Any attention is good attention in the "I'm a superstar" world they grew up in.

So the generation playing WoW today is a different one than was playing 2 years ago?

Yes, when dealing with teens 2 years is a mighty long time.

Younger folks always seem to be the ones doing the gross trolling.  Anal (skill) or describing something in detail.  Most on my server haven't been over 19 when asked in other channels.  (Through a series of coincidences I found out what the private troll celeb channel was on my server and used to belong to it. )  Let's say your avg. troll of this type is a teenager between 15 and 17.  2 years ago the 15year old troll would have been 13, possibly playing for the first time and seeing what the trolls of 2 years ago did.  In typical teenage fashion, that's old and tired and "normal" so it's time to push beyond that into something even more scandalous and shocking.  It's exponential.   

Now, if you're going with the assumption that it's kids in their early 20s, then the things can be different.  Tho it's been my experience that the ones in their 20s take it a little more seriously and use political trolling or issue-based trolling.  Things like Sarah Palin is awesome. or Obama killed my grandmother.   These guys develop a personna and might have 2-3 different characters that they troll with.  The ones here you worry about also like to dip into pedo trolling. Those guys are creepy. 

They also don't care when they're banned.  It's a joke to them, and they're doing it for the attention and the mini-celeb status.  They love being talked about, weather it's by their little cults of personality or reviled by the rest of the server.

Just based on my experiences, though.

[Nebu]

I have to confess that if Blizzard opened an old people's server (like 30+), I'd probably resub.  I'd even pay $5 more a month. 

[Oban]

I have to confess that if Blizzard opened an old people's server (like 30+), I'd probably resub.  I'd even pay $5 more a month. 

I thought that was the intent behind creating RP-PVE servers.

[ghost]

I have to confess that if Blizzard opened an old people's server (like 30+), I'd probably resub.  I'd even pay $5 more a month. 

I thought that was the intent behind creating RP-PVE servers.

That's pretty much why I play on those types of servers, when I am subbed.  Signing up even comes with its own walker that has the fuzzy tennis balls on the bottom.